On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote: A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.
(Warning: Prologue spoilers)
I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.
Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.
Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.
There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.
The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).
It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).
All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.
You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.
Yes it was hard for me at normal when I was playing the prologue. Tho when you get further in the game it gets easier. Just roll do some quick attacks roll again to his back repeat. Also remember to use Quen sign its so OP atleast at normal!
On May 25 2011 02:30 Mithrandror wrote: Ok lol i'm so bad at this game, I'm stuck at the ballista part at the very beginning of the game :-/. I killed all the guards but I just don't know what to do with the ballista it's soooooo unclear lol :-/
There should pop a mouse button image where it asks you to press I think it was left click until the bar goes full.
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote: A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.
That guy needs to ask himself why he is taking so much damage. And I bet it is not the first time he got almost one-shotted when surrounded by a few mobs. Instead he blames the game for his shitty control in battles. My cat sitting on the desk watching me play pointed her paw at the screen saying: "You got owned bro!" first time I got one-shotted when I was surrounded. Just saying .
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
no the hardcore gamers of the past can easily figure out everything because if they keep failing they just open up the manual like mature and thinking individuals.
The people who dont know what a manual is are the instant gratification gamers of the future that play easy games for easy wins and cries foul when buttom awesome is not present. I have never played witcher before and i could easily figure out the most simple functions of pretty much everything just spending a few minutes at the tutorial.
I spent all my money on shit(bombs) and couldnt afford the witcher silver sword in act 1 so i had to replay the entire thing. its refreshing that there are alot of things that i dont know about this universe and the combat is engaging and fun. I would love to use bows and see more diversity in the way weapons work for the grumpy monster hunter but i guess this will have to do.
Tobad Geralt is such a bland mix of hero and frankly i do not see what Triss Merigold sees in him, but then again i have a habit of disliking all videogame male protagonists from the start.
I do think the game is suffering abit from console conversion though. (easy minigames and quicktime events)
On May 25 2011 02:04 Hargol wrote: Well, my guess is it's a lot cheaper and quicker to write it down into a little manual you're going to include anyway than to spend time and resources adding it into the game that could be better spent elsewhere. Just because it's not your preference or you think it's lazy doesn't mean it's bad, sorry.
It is bad, sorry. Its one of the more modern tenets of game design. Omit it and you've done some bad game design, because its going to make people stop playing the game when they don't understand what you're throwing them into. If they intentionally skipped the tutorial/unchecked the tutorial option, you can't do anything about that. But, if they didn't, you should make damned sure that people understand the battle you're about to throw them into. Otherwise you just piss people off, earn detractors, and screw up your own sales. Even if the last 99% of the game is awesome, if that first 1% pisses them off, a lot of people won't play it.
The ultimate goal is to make people happy with their purchase. If they 'accidentally' piss them off through lazily half-assing a tutorial section, they only have themselves to blame.
You sound so angry, was it really so bad to figure out?
I like games that challenge me and I scorn games that holds your hand every step of the way without any kind of difficulty, makes me feel like it is pointless to play. I am not saying that the witcher 2 is perfect, but it is a refreshing sight among all the other streamlined and consolized games being spit out on the market.
No, I'm not really that angry. I just completely, 100% understand why someone would stop playing this game because of the bad design. I'm really just stating a fact; the tutorial is bad, and they should have done a better job. However, there are people who simply don't want to listen to any kind of criticism for this game and will defend it to the death despite obvious evidence to contrary. There's a name for them, and I think they know what it is. I guess its pointless trying to fight the all-mighty cognitive dissonance.
On May 25 2011 02:04 Hargol wrote: Well, my guess is it's a lot cheaper and quicker to write it down into a little manual you're going to include anyway than to spend time and resources adding it into the game that could be better spent elsewhere. Just because it's not your preference or you think it's lazy doesn't mean it's bad, sorry.
It is bad, sorry. Its one of the more modern tenets of game design. Omit it and you've done some bad game design, because its going to make people stop playing the game when they don't understand what you're throwing them into. If they intentionally skipped the tutorial/unchecked the tutorial option, you can't do anything about that. But, if they didn't, you should make damned sure that people understand the battle you're about to throw them into. Otherwise you just piss people off, earn detractors, and screw up your own sales. Even if the last 99% of the game is awesome, if that first 1% pisses them off, a lot of people won't play it.
The ultimate goal is to make people happy with their purchase. If they 'accidentally' piss them off through lazily half-assing a tutorial section, they only have themselves to blame.
You sound so angry, was it really so bad to figure out?
I like games that challenge me and I scorn games that holds your hand every step of the way without any kind of difficulty, makes me feel like it is pointless to play. I am not saying that the witcher 2 is perfect, but it is a refreshing sight among all the other streamlined and consolized games being spit out on the market.
Your argument about Witcher 2 not holding your hand doesn't even hold water. It is not fun having to figure out controls and game mechanics. What IS fun though, is figuring out strategies and solving puzzles, something Witcher 2 fails at so far(for me at least). Big monster fight in Act 1 spoiler: + Show Spoiler +
The moment you step into the Old Man's den the sorceress yells: "Use the Yirden sign to trap it! " Would have been much more enjoyable to figure that out myself.
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
no the hardcore gamers of the past can easily figure out everything because if they keep failing they just open up the manual like mature and thinking individuals. The people who dont know what a manual is are the instant gratification gamers of the future that play easy games for easy wins and cries foul when buttom awesome is not present.
I spent all my money on shit and couldnt afford the witcher silver sword in act 1 so i had to replay the entire thing. its refreshing that there are alot of things that i dont know about this universe and the combat is engaging and fun. I would love to use bows and see more diversity in the way weapons work for the grumpy monster hunter but i guess this will have to do.
Tobad Geralt is such a bland mix of hero and frankly i do not see what Triss Merigold sees in him, but then again i have a habit of disliking all videogame male protagonists from the start.
Yes, yes, you're special. All of us gamers who went through games like the X-Wings, the DOOMs, the Zeldas, the Marios, the Sonics, yada, yada, from the 80s and 90s are special, and all of those kids born in the 90s are inferior. We get it.
On May 25 2011 02:04 Hargol wrote: Well, my guess is it's a lot cheaper and quicker to write it down into a little manual you're going to include anyway than to spend time and resources adding it into the game that could be better spent elsewhere. Just because it's not your preference or you think it's lazy doesn't mean it's bad, sorry.
It is bad, sorry. Its one of the more modern tenets of game design. Omit it and you've done some bad game design, because its going to make people stop playing the game when they don't understand what you're throwing them into. If they intentionally skipped the tutorial/unchecked the tutorial option, you can't do anything about that. But, if they didn't, you should make damned sure that people understand the battle you're about to throw them into. Otherwise you just piss people off, earn detractors, and screw up your own sales. Even if the last 99% of the game is awesome, if that first 1% pisses them off, a lot of people won't play it.
The ultimate goal is to make people happy with their purchase. If they 'accidentally' piss them off through lazily half-assing a tutorial section, they only have themselves to blame.
You sound so angry, was it really so bad to figure out?
I like games that challenge me and I scorn games that holds your hand every step of the way without any kind of difficulty, makes me feel like it is pointless to play. I am not saying that the witcher 2 is perfect, but it is a refreshing sight among all the other streamlined and consolized games being spit out on the market.
Your argument about Witcher 2 not holding your hand doesn't even hold water. It is not fun having to figure out controls and game mechanics. What IS fun though, is figuring out strategies and solving puzzles, something Witcher 2 fails at so far(for me at least). Big monster fight in Act 1 spoiler: + Show Spoiler +
The moment you step into the Old Man's den the sorceress yells: "Use the Yirden sign to trap it! " Would have been much more enjoyable to figure that out myself.
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
I guess we just see the world differently as gamers. I in turn LOVED dieing over and over in the 8-bit era.I liked the challenge and reward of beating Ninja gaiden. This day in age for the most part our games are an easy 8 hour breeze through (fable 3) that my grandma could play or a 90 hour grind with no challenge (dragon age)
W2 is obviously not perfect its a good game. But when your biggest complaint is the TUTORIAL!! I think that is pretty damn good. " golden eye for n64 was fantastic game but the tutorial just ruined everything" do you see how stupid that sounds?
If you want an easier game with a good tutorial my nephew told me the last installment of of lego indiana jones was fantastic.
On May 25 2011 02:08 Bibdy wrote: It is bad, sorry. Its one of the more modern tenets of game design. Omit it and you've done some bad game design, because its going to make people stop playing the game when they don't understand what you're throwing them into. If they intentionally skipped the tutorial/unchecked the tutorial option, you can't do anything about that. But, if they didn't, you should make damned sure that people understand the battle you're about to throw them into. Otherwise you just piss people off, earn detractors, and screw up your own sales. Even if the last 99% of the game is awesome, if that first 1% pisses them off, a lot of people won't play it.
The ultimate goal is to make people happy with their purchase. If they 'accidentally' piss them off through lazily half-assing a tutorial section, they only have themselves to blame.
And another "modern tenet of game design" apparently is: Guide the player on rails through the entire game, just dont allow him to fail. Make him finish it quickly so we can sell him another DLC/sequel and he has to waste his time on one of our other supreme game creations. Need moar money!
If you are not able to read tips, look through manuals and experiment within the prologue in your first in-game hour, you are not worth the other ~30 hours of entertainment.
Umm, at what point am I saying I want to be handheld through the game? You, like everyone else, are twisting my words and I really wish you would stop, because its getting very tiresome.
Again, is it too much to ask for a better tutorial? That's it. Tutorial. First 10-20 minutes of the game. Explain the game better. That's all. No need to make every monster 1-shottable, give me 10,000,000 orens or get me through the arm-wrestling contests by pressing the spacebar once.
I didn't find that part at the beginning hard at all, all it takes is the use of quen to avoid getting stun locked and retreating when your quen ends. The game also becomes much easier as you progress and level up Geralt. Just because this game, unlike most games on the market today, actually requires you to use most of the tools at your disposal instead of spam clicking throungh enemies does not make it poorly designed.
If you are really having trouble you can always drop the difficulty, but you shouldn't need to if you are willing to look at what abilities you have. I bet a lot of the whining comes from the fact that normal difficulty is actually normal, and not unconscious mode. This controversy could have easily been avoided if the devs had added another difficulty to replace easy and bumped everything else up by one.
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
I guess we just see the world differently as gamers. I in turn LOVED dieing over and over in the 8-bit era.I liked the challenge and reward of beating Ninja gaiden. This day in age for the most part our games are an easy 8 hour breeze through (fable 3) that my grandma could play or a 90 hour grind with no challenge (dragon age)
W2 is obviously not perfect its a good game. But when your biggest complaint is the TUTORIAL!! I think that is pretty damn good. " golden eye for n64 was fantastic game but the tutorial just ruined everything" do you see how stupid that sounds?
If you want an easier game with a good tutorial my nephew told me the last installment of of lego indiana jones was fantastic.
You're jumping to conclusions again. You think because I'm criticizing the tutorial so much (which is really just constant responses to the utter, dare I say it, fanboyism going on here), I have
A) Stopped playing the game B) Want very easy games C) Think the game is terrible as a result of just the tutorial alone
None of those things have been said by me, so stop pretending like I did.
Would you like me to go into the other areas where the game is bad? Like the really, repetitive, and downright cowardly method of combat, where you take the occasional swing and have to run for your life to regenerate the vigor to recast Quen half the time? How about looting the areas, where you just run around spamming left-click until you bump into a container? That's not exactly the most enjoyable gameplay - I'm genuinely worried about repetitive strain injury at this point.
The roleplaying parts are great, the graphics are stunning (pretty sure I've spent more time oogling over the level design than deliberating over my choices), but this game isn't perfect.
On May 25 2011 02:59 Pelopidas wrote: I didn't find that part at the beginning hard at all, all it takes is the use of quen to avoid getting stun locked and retreating when your quen ends. The game also becomes much easier as you progress and level up Geralt. Just because this game, unlike most games on the market today, actually requires you to use most of the tools at your disposal instead of spam clicking throungh enemies does not make it poorly designed.
If you are really having trouble you can always drop the difficulty, but you shouldn't need to if you are willing to look at what abilities you have. I bet a lot of the whining comes from the fact that normal difficulty is actually normal, and not unconscious mode. This controversy could have easily been avoided if the devs had added another difficulty to replace easy and bumped everything else up by one.
I've yet to see anyone on this thread complain about the actual difficulty of combat, which is, largely, just spamming left-click on this fabled Normal mode of yours (at least as far as I've got - into the woods of Act 1).
You seem to be confusing two things
A) Thrown into the deep-end B) Have things explained to you, then thrown at a challenging battle.
People enjoy B (in spurts). They really don't like A. And there's really no reason for inflicting A on a player.
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
I guess we just see the world differently as gamers. I in turn LOVED dieing over and over in the 8-bit era.I liked the challenge and reward of beating Ninja gaiden. This day in age for the most part our games are an easy 8 hour breeze through (fable 3) that my grandma could play or a 90 hour grind with no challenge (dragon age)
W2 is obviously not perfect its a good game. But when your biggest complaint is the TUTORIAL!! I think that is pretty damn good. " golden eye for n64 was fantastic game but the tutorial just ruined everything" do you see how stupid that sounds?
If you want an easier game with a good tutorial my nephew told me the last installment of of lego indiana jones was fantastic.
You're jumping to conclusions again. You think because I'm criticizing the tutorial so much (which is really just constant responses to the utter, dare I say it, fanboyism going on here), I have
A) Stopped playing the game B) Want very easy games C) Think the game is terrible as a result of just the tutorial alone
None of those things have been said by me, so stop pretending like I did.
Would you like me to go into the other areas where the game is bad? Like the really, repetitive, and downright cowardly method of combat, where you take the occasional swing and have to run for your life to regenerate the vigor to recast Quen half the time? How about looting the areas, where you just run around spamming left-click until you bump into a container? That's not exactly the most enjoyable gameplay - I'm genuinely worried about repetitive strain injury at this point.
The roleplaying parts are great, the graphics are stunning (pretty sure I've spent more time oogling over the level design than deliberating over my choices), but this game isn't perfect.
actually the combat was made to become like that because Geralt is supposed to be a human monster hunter with a slight power increase rather than shepard the world saviour of mankind that never dies. If you neglect to use traps and bombs you will have to dodge and drag out fights longer than you should have if the before mentioned bombs and traps are used.
On May 25 2011 02:59 hugman wrote: I wish food stores hid their wares better, I like it when I can't find anything and have to ask an employee.
LOL epic analogy.
The game is great but it suffers from excess hype imo. There was a picture with numbers on it circling around here which said "4 loading screens", which was just a complete fabrication. Plus lots of reviews and random people praised it for the freedom and open worldness of it, but so far I have been stuck in one small village and a small forest around it, littered with invisible walls and lacking the ability to swim. But then again I am still on Act 1, hopefully some of that changes later, though I doubt it.
I was really looking forward to this game and I enjoyed the story to the point when you get to the first city with boat. I also found the tutorial a bit iffy and most of the tips disappeared so fast that I didn't have enough time to read them, but that wasn't so bad I could figure out the buttons myself.
What eventually just threw my interest off the game was the fighting which I just found really repetitive and BORING to the point that I just felt like the fighting alone made a possibly great game unplayable for me. I just wish they would have focused more on the fighting and added more variety to it.
I think they could take a page out of the fighting system that fable 3 has, how similar it is but the variety and effort to make the controls better shows and makes for a better gaming experience.
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
I guess we just see the world differently as gamers. I in turn LOVED dieing over and over in the 8-bit era.I liked the challenge and reward of beating Ninja gaiden. This day in age for the most part our games are an easy 8 hour breeze through (fable 3) that my grandma could play or a 90 hour grind with no challenge (dragon age)
W2 is obviously not perfect its a good game. But when your biggest complaint is the TUTORIAL!! I think that is pretty damn good. " golden eye for n64 was fantastic game but the tutorial just ruined everything" do you see how stupid that sounds?
If you want an easier game with a good tutorial my nephew told me the last installment of of lego indiana jones was fantastic.
You're jumping to conclusions again. You think because I'm criticizing the tutorial so much (which is really just constant responses to the utter, dare I say it, fanboyism going on here), I have
A) Stopped playing the game B) Want very easy games C) Think the game is terrible as a result of just the tutorial alone
None of those things have been said by me, so stop pretending like I did.
Would you like me to go into the other areas where the game is bad? Like the really, repetitive, and downright cowardly method of combat, where you take the occasional swing and have to run for your life to regenerate the vigor to recast Quen half the time? How about looting the areas, where you just run around spamming left-click until you bump into a container? That's not exactly the most enjoyable gameplay - I'm genuinely worried about repetitive strain injury at this point.
The roleplaying parts are great, the graphics are stunning (pretty sure I've spent more time oogling over the level design than deliberating over my choices), but this game isn't perfect.
actually the combat was made to become like that because Geralt is supposed to be a human monster hunter with a slight power increase rather than shepard the world saviour of mankind that never dies. If you neglect to use traps and bombs you will have to dodge and drag out fights longer than you should have if the before mentioned bombs and traps are used.
Yeeaah, intentional or not, the gameplay there isn't so great. I spend more time running away to regenerate and/or trying to make room to use the aforementioned tools (so I don't blow myself up or something!) than actually doing stuff.
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
I guess we just see the world differently as gamers. I in turn LOVED dieing over and over in the 8-bit era.I liked the challenge and reward of beating Ninja gaiden. This day in age for the most part our games are an easy 8 hour breeze through (fable 3) that my grandma could play or a 90 hour grind with no challenge (dragon age)
W2 is obviously not perfect its a good game. But when your biggest complaint is the TUTORIAL!! I think that is pretty damn good. " golden eye for n64 was fantastic game but the tutorial just ruined everything" do you see how stupid that sounds?
If you want an easier game with a good tutorial my nephew told me the last installment of of lego indiana jones was fantastic.
You're jumping to conclusions again. You think because I'm criticizing the tutorial so much (which is really just constant responses to the utter, dare I say it, fanboyism going on here), I have
A) Stopped playing the game B) Want very easy games C) Think the game is terrible as a result of just the tutorial alone
None of those things have been said by me, so stop pretending like I did.
Would you like me to go into the other areas where the game is bad? Like the really, repetitive, and downright cowardly method of combat, where you take the occasional swing and have to run for your life to regenerate the vigor to recast Quen half the time? How about looting the areas, where you just run around spamming left-click until you bump into a container? That's not exactly the most enjoyable gameplay - I'm genuinely worried about repetitive strain injury at this point.
The roleplaying parts are great, the graphics are stunning (pretty sure I've spent more time oogling over the level design than deliberating over my choices), but this game isn't perfect.
actually the combat was made to become like that because Geralt is supposed to be a human monster hunter with a slight power increase rather than shepard the world saviour of mankind that never dies. If you neglect to use traps and bombs you will have to dodge and drag out fights longer than you should have if the before mentioned bombs and traps are used.
Yeeaah, intentional or not, the gameplay there isn't so great. I spend more time running away to regenerate and/or trying to make room to use the aforementioned tools (so I don't blow myself up or something!) than actually doing stuff.
you could plant them ahead of time though, reloading the game after a difficult encounter and then planning out where to lead your foes to make things easier is not a sin to be frowned upon when dealing with this kind of game.
maybe you just approached the game wrong or from a different standpoint than me but i recall buying the witcher 2 because it would be a hard game to master. Not because of the RP, like i did with Mass Effect or that terrible Dragon age sequel ;P
On May 25 2011 01:40 FliedLice wrote: I didn't use it very often but i was totally fine with the combat system once i got the hang of it, didn't really need it anyway.
also
iirc the first message you get in the game tells you that you can look up all the tutorial messages by pressing "J"
Yes, I know what it is, I know what it does. Pointing that out doesn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone else in this thread who's already been playing the game. We're talking about our past selves, and others, who just jumped into the game. Want to know how I found out what vigor was, since there was no tutorial pop-up explaining it (which would have appeared/disappeared so quickly I wouldn't have had a chance to read it, anyhow)? I just cast a few spells in that first camp and noticed the yellow boxes disappearing.
That's not intuitiveness.
Heck, you even have to STUMBLE, every step of the way, onto the fact that the Journal, opened by J, has a tab that contains all of the game's tutorial information that's been popping up and disappearing while you were invariably in the middle of something else.
So basically what your saying is you want someone to hold your hand in everything little thing you do. God forbid you had to figure out something on your own and use your brain. You obviously did not grow up in the 8bit days when games barley came with any instructions what so ever .
Actually, I did. What's your excuse, now? Stop trying to defend some obviously bad game design. There is NO EXCUSE for having a bad tutorial. Games of the 80s and 90s were just as terrible for that exact same reason, but we pushed through it because we were kids, didn't have a whole lot of games within reach, and therefore had a high tolerance for things that would piss us off in a game; we died a lot, but it's not like we could go play something else instead.
Something that kids today haven't quite figured out, yet (which is ironic, since they know everything); the hardcore gamers of the 70s, 80s and 90s are the casual-gamers of today. We grew up. We've got responsibilities now, and we're the ones with the money. Is it too much to ask for a little more effort put in to provide a straight-forward tutorial?
Apparently for CD Projekt, the answer is yes.
I guess we just see the world differently as gamers. I in turn LOVED dieing over and over in the 8-bit era.I liked the challenge and reward of beating Ninja gaiden. This day in age for the most part our games are an easy 8 hour breeze through (fable 3) that my grandma could play or a 90 hour grind with no challenge (dragon age)
W2 is obviously not perfect its a good game. But when your biggest complaint is the TUTORIAL!! I think that is pretty damn good. " golden eye for n64 was fantastic game but the tutorial just ruined everything" do you see how stupid that sounds?
If you want an easier game with a good tutorial my nephew told me the last installment of of lego indiana jones was fantastic.
You're jumping to conclusions again. You think because I'm criticizing the tutorial so much (which is really just constant responses to the utter, dare I say it, fanboyism going on here), I have
A) Stopped playing the game B) Want very easy games C) Think the game is terrible as a result of just the tutorial alone
None of those things have been said by me, so stop pretending like I did.
Would you like me to go into the other areas where the game is bad? Like the really, repetitive, and downright cowardly method of combat, where you take the occasional swing and have to run for your life to regenerate the vigor to recast Quen half the time? How about looting the areas, where you just run around spamming left-click until you bump into a container? That's not exactly the most enjoyable gameplay - I'm genuinely worried about repetitive strain injury at this point.
The roleplaying parts are great, the graphics are stunning (pretty sure I've spent more time oogling over the level design than deliberating over my choices), but this game isn't perfect.
actually the combat was made to become like that because Geralt is supposed to be a human monster hunter with a slight power increase rather than shepard the world saviour of mankind that never dies. If you neglect to use traps and bombs you will have to dodge and drag out fights longer than you should have if the before mentioned bombs and traps are used.
Yeeaah, intentional or not, the gameplay there isn't so great. I spend more time running away to regenerate and/or trying to make room to use the aforementioned tools (so I don't blow myself up or something!) than actually doing stuff.
you could plant them ahead of time though, reloading the game after a difficult encounter and then planning out where to lead your foes to make things easier is not a sin to be frowned upon when dealing with this kind of game.
maybe you just approached the game wrong or from a different standpoint than me but i recall buying the witcher 2 because it would be a hard game. Not because of the RP like i did mass effect or that terrible Dragon age sequel ;P
Yes, thankyou captain obvious. I get the idea of the role-playing strategy game. Doesn't mean I'm not still running around mid-combat to regenerate Quen half the time. Is it supposed to get fun when I talent into the Magic line to beef up Quen into overpoweredness? From what I hear, no.
Just to name a few examples, the first few Nekker nest, or Malena's gang.
Also, the first boss fight for example was quite good imho, I had to play through it a dozen times to overcome the different dangers. As a negative point though, because of the AI the game does have some kiting issues for some of the fights that are too easy to exploit.
EPT
.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lZ0lZ.jpg)
