EPTDiablo III General Discussion - Page 628
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On June 21 2012 02:16 crms wrote: I agree but the game has no longevity for anyone including the 'hardcore gamers' because they have destroyed the only thing that makes the hardcore gamers play, loot. Meh, the old drop-table was dooming itself to begin with, because fast act 3 farmers were getting a ton of crap that would be considered bad for themselves, yet is still significantly better than what anyone else could get which trivializes all other parts of the game. It's not so much the fact that the new drop-rate is bad, it's that any sort of "dialing down" of drop-rate after an extended period of having it high will fuck up the reward system until the market restabilizes. Blizzard will have to introduce new loot periodically anyways to keep things going. Personally I just farm to equip 5 different characters so that my perception of what I consider a "rewarding loot" is amplified. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
I have a base mf of around 150% before any nv. I did a run last night where I killed Cydaea/Azmodan and around 20+ champion/unique packs. The run took 2 hours and netted me roughly 100k+ gold after repairs. However, the rares I got were such garbage that I'm very discouraged to play the game again. Most of it were level 50 trash that my other characters in hell wouldn't even consider wearing. The amount of rewarding loot is so low now, even with 3 characters. It was never high compared to Diablo 2, where even low level set and unique items were useful because they had special stats that trumped blues/rares/uniques from elite equipment. Meph/Baal runs were fast and dropped a lot of set/unique items. Pre-1.03 Diablo 3 was already dialed down a lot from what Diablo 2 was. There was no reason to dial it down even further. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 21 2012 01:42 Heh_ wrote: Items aren't the only thing that people play for. Dying isn't irrelevant; it's incredibly frustrating to be chain-rezzing especially with the increasing death timers. OK, so people play the game either for a challenge, or because it feels rewarding. In 1 patch, Blizzard managed to make the game no longer challenging, and no longer rewarding at the same time. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On June 21 2012 03:52 andrewlt wrote: My DH is only at 45k dps, 300 resist all and 20k hp and upgrades for me are at the 2-5+ million gold range already. Many people posting on these forums will consider me undergeared, pre-1.03. I think at some point, everybody who plays for character progression has a breaking point where they do not get upgrades or character progression fast enough for the game to be considered fun. Back in Diablo 2, I reached that point on almost all my characters when I high the high 70s to mid 80s in level. I never leveled any character to level 90+. I have a base mf of around 150% before any nv. I did a run last night where I killed Cydaea/Azmodan and around 20+ champion/unique packs. The run took 2 hours and netted me roughly 100k+ gold after repairs. However, the rares I got were such garbage that I'm very discouraged to play the game again. Most of it were level 50 trash that my other characters in hell wouldn't even consider wearing. The amount of rewarding loot is so low now, even with 3 characters. It was never high compared to Diablo 2, where even low level set and unique items were useful because they had special stats that trumped blues/rares/uniques from elite equipment. Meph/Baal runs were fast and dropped a lot of set/unique items. Pre-1.03 Diablo 3 was already dialed down a lot from what Diablo 2 was. There was no reason to dial it down even further. Another case of rose-tinted glasses.... It's easier to farm items when you're only using a single well-geared character instead of dividing your earnings on three... Use sharpshooter and your dps suddenly increases by a huge margin. The "special stats" in D2 uniques were either useless or downright broken. Enigma runeword gives teleport? That sounds pretty balanced to me. A ton of uniques dropped? Don't think so. I had a lvl92 sorc and I never saw a single a single item from the class-specific sets (Tal Rasha and friends) drop. The highest rune that dropped was <lvl60. Drop rates were pretty damn low in D2, you only saw a ton of good items due to botting/duping. | ||
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Yiruru
Canada690 Posts
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Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
On June 21 2012 03:59 Heh_ wrote: Another case of rose-tinted glasses.... It's easier to farm items when you're only using a single well-geared character instead of dividing your earnings on three... Use sharpshooter and your dps suddenly increases by a huge margin. The "special stats" in D2 uniques were either useless or downright broken. Enigma runeword gives teleport? That sounds pretty balanced to me. A ton of uniques dropped? Don't think so. I had a lvl92 sorc and I never saw a single a single item from the class-specific sets (Tal Rasha and friends) drop. The highest rune that dropped was <lvl60. Drop rates were pretty damn low in D2, you only saw a ton of good items due to botting/duping. Balance is the reason this game is going down the toilet. It's not fun. Fun > balance This isn't an MMORPG or a competitive game. It doesn't need pure balance. Random affix abilities on items in Diablo 2 were some of the most fun things in the game, because everything felt different and there was a huge variety of builds and choices you could use. The only thing Diablo 3 has is what, 4-5 different main stats and a couple smaller ones like resist and crit? It's so bland and uninspired it's not even funny. Diablo 3 should be an ARPG hack and slash where balance is secondary. Diablo 3 is already dying for this very reason, because it's just not fun. There's around 1500 people in public games on my server right now, and a couple weeks ago that was in the hundreds of thousands. All of my friends have quit including me, and it's so fucking sad because I was expecting something AT LEAST better than Diablo 2 or Torchlight. But no, we get a game that's actually worse than the first Diablo. It's Diablo 0.5 and it's put a bad taste in me and many other people's mouths. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On June 21 2012 03:56 TheYango wrote: OK, so people play the game either for a challenge, or because it feels rewarding. In 1 patch, Blizzard managed to make the game no longer challenging, and no longer rewarding at the same time. Bingo. The game is still a challenge for casual players though, it mostly affected the 'hardcore' gamer group that inferno was 'supposed' to cater towards. Though, like I've stated I don't personally care how easy the game gets. After all, at a certain point d2 became mindnumbingly easy, I just want proper itemization and farming. Neither of which Blizzard has done well. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
There's around 1500 people in public games on my server right now, and a couple weeks ago that was in the hundreds of thousands. never saw that many. and the vast vast majority of people doesnt play in public games (in my whole 30 ppl friendlist not even 1 playd in more then 3 public games) cause its pointless and the public system sucks. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
On June 21 2012 04:11 crms wrote: Bingo. The game is still a challenge for casual players though, it mostly affected the 'hardcore' gamer group that inferno was 'supposed' to cater towards. Though, like I've stated I don't personally care how easy the game gets. After all, at a certain point d2 became mindnumbingly easy, I just want proper itemization and farming. Neither of which Blizzard has done well. When the game got easy in D2 you could start going for unusual or untested builds like melee sorc, Foh-Pala, throwing barb and whatnot and then trade or look for items to support that build. Due to the lack of diversity in items/stats, the dumbed down mechanics and the endless reskill you dont ever have to regear or look for specific items. A witchdoctor always needs Int/Vit/Allres/Critstats. A DH the same with Dex, a Barb with Str. You get the idea. It doesnt even matter what skills you use, you always need the same 5 attributes on items. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On June 21 2012 05:37 AntiGrav1ty wrote: When the game got easy in D2 you could start going for unusual or untested builds like melee sorc, Foh-Pala, throwing barb and whatnot and then trade or look for items to support that build. Due to the lack of diversity in items/stats, the dumbed down mechanics and the endless reskill you dont ever have to regear or look for specific items. A witchdoctor always needs Int/Vit/Allres/Critstats. A DH the same with Dex, a Barb with Str. You get the idea. It doesnt even matter what skills you use, you always need the same 5 attributes on items. Idk there is a slightly bigger difference than that.. on a Barb I'm also looking for really high + armor, "reduced damage from melee/ranged", attack speed, life on hit, life regeneration, physical resistance, block %, life%, sockets, increased frenzy damage. I don't really want crit, but some 2H barbs do. That's not to say that the items aren't boring, I agree with you. But I don't think it's as simple as 5 stats on everything, and your kind of over simplifying it, I know that ranged classes are basically glass cannon cause it's the cheapest way to be in a position to clear act 2+. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
Also has anyone ran into a bug where you can't see the elite's affix, happened to me once so far for one group. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On June 21 2012 05:37 AntiGrav1ty wrote: When the game got easy in D2 you could start going for unusual or untested builds like melee sorc, Foh-Pala, throwing barb and whatnot and then trade or look for items to support that build. Due to the lack of diversity in items/stats, the dumbed down mechanics and the endless reskill you dont ever have to regear or look for specific items. A witchdoctor always needs Int/Vit/Allres/Critstats. A DH the same with Dex, a Barb with Str. You get the idea. It doesnt even matter what skills you use, you always need the same 5 attributes on items. No one is forcing you to use splinters; you can use rain of toads or firebomb. No one said that WDs had to be glass cannon; you can tank it up using jungle fortitude and bad medicine. Why don't people do these? Because they're suboptimal, just like the D2 "builds" you mentioned. What item diversity was there in D2? That's a new concept to me, please explain more. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
On June 21 2012 05:54 Heh_ wrote: No one is forcing you to use splinters; you can use rain of toads or firebomb. No one said that WDs had to be glass cannon; you can tank it up using jungle fortitude and bad medicine. What does that have to do with anything i said? I'm not complaining about skill diversity but the fact that nearly every skill you chose ends up needing the same items and attributes. On a WD you always need Int/Vit/Allres/Crit and attackspeed. Some people chose to get more Int and less Vit/Allres, some like more Vitality. Choosing to go with more or less Vit in exchange for main attribute is basically the extent to randomizing that we can get out of D3 right now in terms of items. Yes, in D2 all hammerdins wore the same items, same goes for fireballsorc etc etc. The difference is that a fanazealot, a smiter, a FoH-Pala all had to be levelled, built and get vastly different items and attributes. If you want to play a fanazealot ever you have to collect specific items for that char. If you want to switch from Poison dart to rain of toads and firebomb you just reskill and thats it. The 5 mainstats you need are completely the same. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:10 AntiGrav1ty wrote: What does that have to do with anything i said? I'm not complaining about skill diversity but the fact that nearly every skill you chose ends up needing the same items and attributes. On a WD you always need Int/Vit/Allres/Crit and attackspeed. Some people chose to get more Int and less Vit/Allres, some like more Vitality. Choosing to go with more or less Vit in exchange for main attribute is basically the extent to randomizing that we can get out of D3 right now in terms of items. Yes, in D2 all hammerdins wore the same items, same goes for fireballsorc etc etc. The difference is that a fanazealot, a smiter, a FoH-Pala all had to be levelled, built and get vastly different items and attributes. If you want to play a fanazealot ever you have to collect specific items for that. If you want to switch from Poison dart to rain of toads and firebomb you just reskill and thats it. The 5 mainstats you need are completely the same. its pretty clear that blizzard is not interested in making the game appeal to the minority of hardcore gamers like yourself. they want to make it more attractive to casual players that dont want to have to restart their players just to try out different skillsets. you may not like that--and your reasons seem legitimate--but that is the new blizzard model. i am one of those casual gamers so i prefer the new model. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
Gazillions of people played that. Casual gamers could enjoy it and just roll new characters when they wanted to play something different and dedicated gamers could go for a lot of different builds, try to reach lvl 99 or go for all sorts of PvP. Once you are decently equipped and finished inferno there is just no incentive to play anymore because your items are good for every skillbuild with that character. As of right now there is no endgame to D3 and people have reached that stage barely one month after release. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On June 21 2012 02:24 crms wrote: Ever read the sc2 sections? zing | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On June 21 2012 05:51 BlackMagister wrote: Ran into a random event Vendel the Armor Smith while farming Inferno Act 1. Confused that he can be killed even though you are supposed to be helping him as I did by collapsing some rocks on him O_O. Yep found the scabbard but the guy doesn't reappear his corpse is gone. Failed a random event, didn't even know it was possible. Also has anyone ran into a bug where you can't see the elite's affix, happened to me once so far for one group. Were they blue Moon Clan Shamans in the Highlands? Happened to me on three separate packs last night. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:22 AntiGrav1ty wrote: Yes, they want to cater to the casual gamers. I don't see how the D2 system was only for a hardcore minority tho. Gazillions of people played that. Casual gamers could enjoy it and just roll new characters when they wanted to play something different and dedicated gamers could go for a lot of different builds, try to reach lvl 99 or go for all sorts of PvP. Once you are decently equipped and finished inferno there is just no incentive to play anymore because your items are good for every skillbuild with that character. As of right now there is no endgame to D3 and people have reached that stage barely one month after release. I don't know the "casuals" you are speaking of in D2 who would rather roll a new character when they wanted to try something new. | ||
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