On June 10 2012 04:46 Tula wrote: Also they should definitly remove anything below lvl 59 from the inferno drop tables. That is simply a kick in the face. If you kill siegebreaker 12 times and only get 5 out of 27 rares at level 60 (and yes i know that sample size is low) you loose quite a lot of motivation...
Have to admit this is having an effect on me. I have almost no MF on my gear but even with 5 NV I've not gotten a single good item from Siegebreaker yet in about 10 runs. Each run also takes me about an hour + to do.
Welcome to random drops. I've gotten level 50 items from Azmodan runs, and items that go for 10m+.
Make the good drops more common and you won't make any more money from Siegebreaker, because prices will go down anyway.
Frankly prices could go down by 200% and I still wouldn't care if i would find upgrades myself at least semi regulary.
Honestly in weeks of farming I have not found a SINGLE Item i equipped to upgrade myself. I found a few which would have suited a monk or barbarian, but nothing for a mage. The 2 legendaries i found were pure trash, the few good rares went to the AH because i had either already bought something better or they didn't fit my class.
That is why i am pissed off at the droptables, because the chance of getting something good on inferno doesn't represent the effort in any way. And yes, if i had not bought anything on the AH i probably would have found some stuff i could have used by now, but the chance that i would have successfully run butcher 1 week after release without any AH stuff is nearly zero, it was hard enough as it was without using the "exploit" builds.
On June 10 2012 04:46 Tula wrote: Also they should definitly remove anything below lvl 59 from the inferno drop tables. That is simply a kick in the face. If you kill siegebreaker 12 times and only get 5 out of 27 rares at level 60 (and yes i know that sample size is low) you loose quite a lot of motivation...
Have to admit this is having an effect on me. I have almost no MF on my gear but even with 5 NV I've not gotten a single good item from Siegebreaker yet in about 10 runs. Each run also takes me about an hour + to do.
Welcome to random drops. I've gotten level 50 items from Azmodan runs, and items that go for 10m+.
Make the good drops more common and you won't make any more money from Siegebreaker, because prices will go down anyway.
But if everything is 60, even if it's shitty 60, at least you can break it down for mats. Hasn't bugged me much yet, but I can see where they're coming from.
Yeah, and then prices adjust. That might be better overall for crafting, but it's not going to make any farmers richer.
Nobody said it helps the money. It just feels more productive. Since the original complaint was morale, getting shit that's not just vendor trash is nice.
On June 10 2012 04:46 Tula wrote: Also they should definitly remove anything below lvl 59 from the inferno drop tables. That is simply a kick in the face. If you kill siegebreaker 12 times and only get 5 out of 27 rares at level 60 (and yes i know that sample size is low) you loose quite a lot of motivation...
Have to admit this is having an effect on me. I have almost no MF on my gear but even with 5 NV I've not gotten a single good item from Siegebreaker yet in about 10 runs. Each run also takes me about an hour + to do.
Welcome to random drops. I've gotten level 50 items from Azmodan runs, and items that go for 10m+.
Make the good drops more common and you won't make any more money from Siegebreaker, because prices will go down anyway.
Frankly prices could go down by 200% and I still wouldn't care if i would find upgrades myself at least semi regulary.
Honestly in weeks of farming I have not found a SINGLE Item i equipped to upgrade myself. I found a few which would have suited a monk or barbarian, but nothing for a mage. The 2 legendaries i found were pure trash, the few good rares went to the AH because i had either already bought something better or they didn't fit my class.
That is why i am pissed off at the droptables, because the chance of getting something good on inferno doesn't represent the effort in any way. And yes, if i had not bought anything on the AH i probably would have found some stuff i could have used by now, but the chance that i would have successfully run butcher 1 week after release without any AH stuff is nearly zero, it was hard enough as it was without using the "exploit" builds.
It's not a fault of droptables, it's an inherent part of an easily accessible and essentially unregulated market. If you didn't use the AH you would be able to find upgrades pretty often. I'm using the AH and I still find an upgrade every now and then - but the point is, if an item of a certain quality is easily droppable, with so many players it will just always be cheap to buy it on AH. If they increased the drop rates, the economy would just shift upwards and a little bit better items would be within affordable range, so finding an upgrade wouldn't be any easier if you buy your eq from the AH.
Let's put it in simple terms - let's say there was just one stat, call it Awesomeness. Let's say you have a 25% chance to drop an item with 100 awesomeness during an inferno act 1 run. That means you'd have an 80% chance to find this item if you did 6 runs - but you want better gear, so you keep on farming. Let's say you have a 10% chance to find an item with 101 awesomeness. And 1%chance to find an item with 102 awesomeness. So you'd have to run the first act 15 times to find the 101 awesomeness item with 80% probablity, and more than a hundred times to find the 102 awesomeness item. It means that unless you're on the cutting edge of the progress, there will be people who've found a ton of the 100 awesomeness items and put them up on AH, so they're dirt cheap. It would probably also mean that the 101 awesomeness items are quite abundant too, since people looking for the 102 awesomeness items are putting them up for sale.
As the game is now, you just simply finish Hell and go to the AH, buy the 101 awesomeness item for relatively affordable sum and go farm. You farm and farm and can't find an upgrade so you get upset. "increase the drop rates!" you yell. So Blizzard does exacly that, bumps the 101 to a 25% chance, 102 to 10% and now a 103 awesomeness is the really really rare thing with 1%. At first you seem pleased, but the next day you log on to AH and find a 102 awesomeness item for an affordable price, since many people have already found those. Well, shit, you didn't find the upgrade but it's an upgrade and you can afford it, so why the hell not, you buy the item. And you proceed with your farm, and guess what - you can't find the 103 awesomeness item, because it's so rare!
TL;DR it's not a fault of drop rates, it's just some basic economics. Upgrades do drop, in fact they drop so often that they are really cheap on AH so you buy them - if an item is too expensive for you to buy, it means it's really rare - if it was easy to find, it wouldn't be so expensive. It's not something that could be ever fixed with some simple drop rates tuning, and after 1.0.3 we'll just see quite a lot of equipment plummet in price, people will buy that equipment from AH and then keep on playing, and finding an upgrade to what you bought on AH will be just as hard as it's ever been.
Still TL;DR even that much: If you want to find upgrades, don't use AH so much.
I don't find upgrades for my gear myself, because the things that upgrade my gear are so painfully rare that they can only reasonably be found if you add everyone's farming chances together and then put the few found items on the market. The chance that me, one of many, many players, will find that item personally, are slim - and they will always be slim as you approach the upper end of gear.
Okay, does Diablo's teleport have a minimum range to trigger? I glitched to Inferno Diablo (going through the Silver Spire was a bitch), got killed at least 20 times by Diablo because of his fucking teleport. Spirit walk can't even save your ass; his attack can somehow hit both the physical and spirit bodies...
On June 10 2012 07:50 Dfgj wrote: What the above said.
I don't find upgrades for my gear myself, because the things that upgrade my gear are so painfully rare that they can only reasonably be found if you add everyone's farming chances together and then put the few found items on the market. The chance that me, one of many, many players, will find that item personally, are slim - and they will always be slim as you approach the upper end of gear.
Without checking your character I cannot say for sure, but I'd wager you are much further along in the gear progression than I. And yes I know exactly what he said, but you are both missing my point completly. What kept me playing in DII was the sense of achievement when I actually FOUND an item I wanted.
In DIII since i entered inferno nearly 3 weeks ago (not sure on the exact day) that feeling has been completly missing, therefor my motivation to play is already low. In addition the crafting is messed up to say the least (as in, not enough reward for too much Gold, and the truly rare plans don't seem to drop either) so that alternative path to gear up is also closed to me. Coupled with the intense frustration of trying to play inferno with "sub-optimal" gear (as in, the best i could buy with the measly 10m I picked up from the ground, and about 10m from auctions in total (rough guess, that number could be as high as 15) currently I have zero interest in trying to play Inferno Act 4 (where i should be given that I can farm Siegebreaker and Azmodan with ease).
Yes I know that one of the problems is the AH, coupled with the "overfarmed" act 3 by people who managed to beat the progression (e.g. Trump on his stream or equivalent people on EU).
Just beat Diablo in inferno with my monk friend(me DH). It took us a few hours over 2 nights to get the coordination down and some gear upgrades to finally down him. Overall I really enjoyed the fight, phase 3 is quite exciting.
On June 10 2012 08:14 Heh_ wrote: Okay, does Diablo's teleport have a minimum range to trigger? I glitched to Inferno Diablo (going through the Silver Spire was a bitch), got killed at least 20 times by Diablo because of his fucking teleport. Spirit walk can't even save your ass; his attack can somehow hit both the physical and spirit bodies...
He only teleports if you are near a wall or the rock thingies in the middle. Stay in a open area and he will keep walking/running.
On June 10 2012 07:50 Dfgj wrote: What the above said.
I don't find upgrades for my gear myself, because the things that upgrade my gear are so painfully rare that they can only reasonably be found if you add everyone's farming chances together and then put the few found items on the market. The chance that me, one of many, many players, will find that item personally, are slim - and they will always be slim as you approach the upper end of gear.
Without checking your character I cannot say for sure, but I'd wager you are much further along in the gear progression than I. And yes I know exactly what he said, but you are both missing my point completly. What kept me playing in DII was the sense of achievement when I actually FOUND an item I wanted.
In DIII since i entered inferno nearly 3 weeks ago (not sure on the exact day) that feeling has been completly missing, therefor my motivation to play is already low. In addition the crafting is messed up to say the least (as in, not enough reward for too much Gold, and the truly rare plans don't seem to drop either) so that alternative path to gear up is also closed to me. Coupled with the intense frustration of trying to play inferno with "sub-optimal" gear (as in, the best i could buy with the measly 10m I picked up from the ground, and about 10m from auctions in total (rough guess, that number could be as high as 15) currently I have zero interest in trying to play Inferno Act 4 (where i should be given that I can farm Siegebreaker and Azmodan with ease).
Yes I know that one of the problems is the AH, coupled with the "overfarmed" act 3 by people who managed to beat the progression (e.g. Trump on his stream or equivalent people on EU).
A few points:
A) You might have missed my point - the AH allows you to combine the drop luck of many people to get items. If you're using it, obviously you're putting yourself vastly ahead of the chances of getting such an item on your own. You can't have it both ways there.
There will always be, and should always be, a part of the game that is designed less for 'use what you find' and more for 'accumulate money to buy the best that anyone can find'. Inferno, particularly the later parts, are this.
B) If crafting is as poor as you say, why are prices on plans and materials so high?
On June 10 2012 09:42 Dfgj wrote: B) If crafting is as poor as you say, why are prices on plans and materials so high?
The thing is that the variance on crafting is high, not so much that it's poor in general.
4-prop plans go for less than 10000 gold. 6-prop plans cost on the order of millions. That should speak a lot to how reasonable it is. So while if you're lucky and can get your hands on a 6-prop plan, it can be good, the average player who only has access to 4-prop plans will never have a use for his Blacksmith.
On June 10 2012 09:42 Dfgj wrote: B) If crafting is as poor as you say, why are prices on plans and materials so high?
The thing is that the variance on crafting is high, not so much that it's poor in general.
4-prop plans go for less than 10000 gold. 6-prop plans cost on the order of millions. That should speak a lot to how reasonable it is. So while if you're lucky and can get your hands on a 6-prop plan, it can be good, the average player who only has access to 4-prop plans will never have a use for his Blacksmith.
I'm aware of that. I wasn't talking about the average player.
On June 10 2012 09:42 Dfgj wrote: B) If crafting is as poor as you say, why are prices on plans and materials so high?
The thing is that the variance on crafting is high, not so much that it's poor in general.
4-prop plans go for less than 10000 gold. 6-prop plans cost on the order of millions. That should speak a lot to how reasonable it is. So while if you're lucky and can get your hands on a 6-prop plan, it can be good, the average player who only has access to 4-prop plans will never have a use for his Blacksmith.
I'm aware of that. I wasn't talking about the average player.
4 prop plans you literally have to roll perfect(mainstat, mainstat+vit, high allresist roll, sockets/vit/dps stat to be worth the craft cost. Not saying they are useless, but definitely very hard to get useful items
On June 10 2012 07:50 Dfgj wrote: What the above said.
I don't find upgrades for my gear myself, because the things that upgrade my gear are so painfully rare that they can only reasonably be found if you add everyone's farming chances together and then put the few found items on the market. The chance that me, one of many, many players, will find that item personally, are slim - and they will always be slim as you approach the upper end of gear.
Without checking your character I cannot say for sure, but I'd wager you are much further along in the gear progression than I. And yes I know exactly what he said, but you are both missing my point completly. What kept me playing in DII was the sense of achievement when I actually FOUND an item I wanted.
In DIII since i entered inferno nearly 3 weeks ago (not sure on the exact day) that feeling has been completly missing, therefor my motivation to play is already low. In addition the crafting is messed up to say the least (as in, not enough reward for too much Gold, and the truly rare plans don't seem to drop either) so that alternative path to gear up is also closed to me. Coupled with the intense frustration of trying to play inferno with "sub-optimal" gear (as in, the best i could buy with the measly 10m I picked up from the ground, and about 10m from auctions in total (rough guess, that number could be as high as 15) currently I have zero interest in trying to play Inferno Act 4 (where i should be given that I can farm Siegebreaker and Azmodan with ease).
Yes I know that one of the problems is the AH, coupled with the "overfarmed" act 3 by people who managed to beat the progression (e.g. Trump on his stream or equivalent people on EU).
A few points:
A) You might have missed my point - the AH allows you to combine the drop luck of many people to get items. If you're using it, obviously you're putting yourself vastly ahead of the chances of getting such an item on your own. You can't have it both ways there.
There will always be, and should always be, a part of the game that is designed less for 'use what you find' and more for 'accumulate money to buy the best that anyone can find'. Inferno, particularly the later parts, are this.
B) If crafting is as poor as you say, why are prices on plans and materials so high?
And you are still missing my point
The problem is not that you have no access to items, you do have access to some extent restricted by the economy (which is fairly askew at the moment due to a) players who geared up massively before the rebalancing of skills (nerfing in other words) and b) massive gold farming by botters (something Blizzard SHOULD have seen coming, and prepared properly for)), but the "feeling" isn't there.
Yes if you are lucky you can get a "good bargain" which can make you feel great, but it has absolutly nothing to do with the way DII felt. The feeling when you identified your Windforce with good rolls is not something you can get by buying on the AH. Obviously that is a design decision, but this specific decision and its followup points are why many people (me included) think DIII is a pale shadow of what it should be.
What i blame Blizzard for (and I am definitly not alone there) is that some of these issues were obvious 6 months ago, yet nothing was done to prepare for them. They should have known that a stable high end economy with obvious shiny goals people need to be able to pick up are important to the Diablo franchise. Instead they completly butchered the legendaries (on purpose if you can believe the blue posts) so you are restricted to rares. These rares are all completly RNG generated (not even a guided RNG, meaning no INT on mighty weapons e.g.) which makes farming them impossible. The only thing you can do is try to find lots of them and pray to the RNG.
Another example is the moneysink regarding crafting. They obviously intended crafting to be a gold sink, but the way they implemented it, it is FAR cheaper to buy a Gem on the AH than to combine anything below the maximum that drops. The blacksmith? Well unless you are one of the lucky few who got his hands on a 6spot plan, the only use of Blacksmithing is to salvage inferno gear (nothing below it is worth it) and to make the staff of herding) otherwise you are back to praying for good numbers on your rares (while sinking massive amounts of Gold you will never get back into them).
Frankly that isn't working out so well.
Honestly I have absolutly no clue how they could not have seen this coming. Just as I am literally speechless that they cannot hire 5 people on a shift basis, whose only job it is to monitor the public channels for Gold spam and ban them (seriously my friggin Sc1 clan had a bot monitoring our mIRC chan for spam nearly 15 years ago....). One of the big reasons for online play was to prevent hacking, well that isn't working out so well either is it?
I could go on for another page or 5 about things that bother me about the game, but my opening sentence basically sums it up, in the end the feeling simply isn't there, and that is something only a lot of (fast) patching can change.
Closing note, I disagree vehemently with your statement regarding there should always be an area where you need to buy gear to get ahead (paraphrased), that statement is a direct contradiction of what the blues have said, and it is also completly against what Diablo stood for in the past.
On June 10 2012 09:42 Dfgj wrote: B) If crafting is as poor as you say, why are prices on plans and materials so high?
The thing is that the variance on crafting is high, not so much that it's poor in general.
4-prop plans go for less than 10000 gold. 6-prop plans cost on the order of millions. That should speak a lot to how reasonable it is. So while if you're lucky and can get your hands on a 6-prop plan, it can be good, the average player who only has access to 4-prop plans will never have a use for his Blacksmith.
I'm aware of that. I wasn't talking about the average player.
4 prop plans you literally have to roll perfect(mainstat, mainstat+vit, high allresist roll, sockets/vit/dps stat to be worth the craft cost. Not saying they are useless, but definitely very hard to get useful items
And I'm definitely not talking about 4 prop plans. Obviously you'd use 6 if you wanted to craft.
On June 10 2012 10:56 Tula wrote: Closing note, I disagree vehemently with your statement regarding there should always be an area where you need to buy gear to get ahead (paraphrased), that statement is a direct contradiction of what the blues have said, and it is also completly against what Diablo stood for in the past.
Did you play Diablo 2?
As for the comment about 'the feeling when IDing a windforce [also paraphrased]', that's still there when you identify a rare of high value. You won't get that feeling when using the AH, but you didn't get that feeling when you bought items in trade games in D2 either. The only difference is the massively exhausting D2 trade process has been made a lot easier now.
On June 09 2012 22:45 Latham wrote: Hey guys, I've been wondering this for a while now. What will happen with the economy with the RMAH coming online soon. I've tried farming legitimately with 5 NV stacks (got some gear to sell on the AH, but mostly trash), I tried vase farming and bought GF gear (invested 500K got 5mil out of it), but the economy is batshit crazy. Even with all I made I can't really gear myself on the EU. everyday I see more and more ludicrous prices on items. Do you think the prices will drop sometime, or on the contrary, will they rise even higher, because there will be less stock on the gold AH because of people moving better items to the RMAH?
Should I invest what I have into gear now (before legendaries buffs)? or wait for the patch and the buffs? =(
The game is pretty fun, but with Blizz's approach to it (like the above poster said - nerf it into the ground instead of spending 10 minutes to think it over) I feel like going to back Starcraft, just because they won't fuck me over so hard there every hotfix and every patch.
the easier it is to find gold, the more expensive items will be
the easier it is to find items, the less expensive items will be
think about where you see that balance being and that is your answer. I don't think the RMAH will have a huge impact on the gold auction house unless the gold economy kinda fails. The more trashed the gold economy is, the less value an item will need to possess for people to say "I'm only going to sell this for cash."
On June 09 2012 23:33 starfries wrote: I think the ease of farming A3 and A4 actually helps players in A1, because a lot of the stuff that would be considered "junk" to a player in act 4 and sold for cheap is actually pretty useful to players in A1. Granted, it's hard to earn money when all of your stuff sells for peanuts, but I think any player can muster up 1M which should be enough to get you through A2 or at least fairly far (depending on skill). The key is to spend money wisely and not blow it on bad purchases, which admittedly can be hard to avoid unless you already know what you're doing.
The problem is that this is only true for weapons (which predominantly get their value from DPS). A4 blues can't roll any better than A1/A2 when it comes to properties like main stat/resist all/etc., which means that easy access to A3/A4 blues doesn't make getting stats in non-weapon slots easier. A 100 main stat/100 vit/60 resist all piece of armor isn't any cheaper by virtue of having A3/A4 access.
This in turn disproportionately helps the ranged classes. Having a 1k+ DPS weapon in A1 can help a Wiz/DH overcome lack of gear in other slots. This is not the case for Barb/Monk which still need to meet steep survivability requirements to progress.
I would go back to using a trash A1 weapon on my Barb if it meant that weapon drops from Warden/Butcher weren't automatically trash and could make me more money to upgrade everything else.
Oh, for some reason I thought A4 blues could get higher all resist. In any case, I only say that because I saw someone actually beat A1 and A2 on a melee class with 1M in gear. If you're interested, you can look up the million gold challenge by ZraveX (a great barbarian you should all check out). He did go on to do Siegebreaker in the same gear but I don't really count it since he had help from Tyrael. I'm not sure if it would be really expensive to gear up for A3 and if there's an effective wall there, but it did make me realize that I was wasting a lot of money on inefficient purchases.
On June 09 2012 21:06 starfries wrote: Something I just learned: you can get multiple valor stacks for killing multiple elites in one hit. If you kill two elites in one hit, you get two stacks, three gives you three stacks, and so on. You have to finish the pack in that hit though.
If you have enough damage to do it, it should speed up farming runs a lot. I think I'll start taking spike traps on my siegebreaker runs. or maybe even fan of knives/cluster arrow. and exploding palm on my monk
I don't think this is necessarily true. There is a known bug where life-linked mobs will give 1-3 stacks when killed, but I've never heard of it happening with anything but the life linked elites.
I did it with a mortar/nightmarish/something pack (it definitely wasn't life linked). I think it's just easier to get that last hit with life linked because you can keep their health relatively even. I messed up several times getting the last hit even when I was trying to do it so I'm not surprised people haven't noticed it very often.
On June 10 2012 04:46 Tula wrote: Also they should definitly remove anything below lvl 59 from the inferno drop tables. That is simply a kick in the face. If you kill siegebreaker 12 times and only get 5 out of 27 rares at level 60 (and yes i know that sample size is low) you loose quite a lot of motivation...
Have to admit this is having an effect on me. I have almost no MF on my gear but even with 5 NV I've not gotten a single good item from Siegebreaker yet in about 10 runs. Each run also takes me about an hour + to do.
Welcome to random drops. I've gotten level 50 items from Azmodan runs, and items that go for 10m+.
Make the good drops more common and you won't make any more money from Siegebreaker, because prices will go down anyway.
Frankly prices could go down by 200% and I still wouldn't care if i would find upgrades myself at least semi regulary.
Honestly in weeks of farming I have not found a SINGLE Item i equipped to upgrade myself. I found a few which would have suited a monk or barbarian, but nothing for a mage. The 2 legendaries i found were pure trash, the few good rares went to the AH because i had either already bought something better or they didn't fit my class.
That is why i am pissed off at the droptables, because the chance of getting something good on inferno doesn't represent the effort in any way. And yes, if i had not bought anything on the AH i probably would have found some stuff i could have used by now, but the chance that i would have successfully run butcher 1 week after release without any AH stuff is nearly zero, it was hard enough as it was without using the "exploit" builds.
Dropping prices by 200% means you are paid for buying items from AH lol. And i strongly disagree with you, as someone who doesn't like buying items from AH i change my gear a LOT. I play 10-15 hours a week and i change my entire equipement at least once a week by swapping items with my drops (i'm nearing the inferno butcher now)
EPT
