• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:03
CET 14:03
KST 22:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview7RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle Let's talk about Metropolis
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1718 users

Terran Revolutionist - Page 5

Forum Index > Final Edits
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 Next All
pangshai
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Chinatown5333 Posts
October 18 2008 12:29 GMT
#81
With the game on autumn wind, when fantasy's army moved out, he was rather low on valks (like 1 or 2). Just hypothesizing, but GGplay could've countered at the main of fantasy, and taken out all the SCVs, possibly even at the nat. In the meantime, his army grows stronger (because he's getting more muta), and fantasy will be unable to reinforce. Abandon his nat, since he saved the drones anyway, and get sunkens up ramp to his main to further delay the terran army (can also kill the rax and valk that provide sight upramp).

While this is all theorycrafting, technically ggplay will now be on 2 base, and fantasy will have close to 0 SCV. I just think that while fantasy's army was moving across the map, GGplay should've done more with his mutas. He ended up flying them around trying to pick off reinforcements futilely. His mutas were not helpful when the tanks were firing at his sunkens anyway, and they didn't particularly slow the rate of advancement of the terran army.
#1 midas fan
foeffa
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Belgium2115 Posts
October 18 2008 12:33 GMT
#82
Very interesting read. Good thing I'm terran. :D
觀過斯知仁矣.
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
October 18 2008 13:27 GMT
#83
MVP just tried this against the Maestro but he got destroyed, it's so sad we didn't get to see the Maestro destroy the metal build.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
TonyL2
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
England1953 Posts
October 18 2008 13:32 GMT
#84
Awesome write up Day, I wanna see more mech happen in zerg with some slight differences. Even though there's been hundreds of thousands of games played on SC, still new variations occur is which SC is the best
mIsUZu
Profile Joined August 2008
New Zealand528 Posts
October 18 2008 13:42 GMT
#85
tvz imbal..
Why So Serious?!
gm.tOSS
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany898 Posts
October 18 2008 13:47 GMT
#86
Very very nice read. Thx 4 the insight Day!
HuK HuK HuK | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | There is death in the hane.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
October 18 2008 13:56 GMT
#87
On October 18 2008 19:34 UbRi wrote:
great article, just a question: with this build order terran is likely to be ahead of zerg after the beginning, but what about the late game? it doesn't change anything about expansions being hard to take, flanks, counters.. ecc ecc
It just doesn't matter since you're going to win? In this sense, isn't it a pretty risky build order if you don't deal enough damage/delay on Z econ?

its hard to deal with all that stuff because you're usually behind economically early with mech builds, since they can take an insanely early third and power hard and you cant really do anything about it.

with this build you're gonna come out of the early game with equivalent economies barring funny stuff. playing from that situation limits zergs options significantly. look at fantasy vs ggplay on medusa. even if ggplay hadnt made that bad attack on fantasy's natural he wouldnt have had enough units to both drop and defend the push. (woulda done better, but still woulda either died or made an ineffective drop). against normal 1 rax cc or 14 cc mech zerg will have enough economy to do the counters and drops and annoying stuff while still being able to defend a counter attack (or at least theyll have an easier time attempting it)
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
October 18 2008 13:57 GMT
#88
On October 18 2008 22:27 SilverSkyLark wrote:
MVP just tried this against the Maestro but he got destroyed, it's so sad we didn't get to see the Maestro destroy the metal build.

?
that wasnt the same build.. at all
it was a 2 fac vult/tank rush
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
capek
Profile Joined September 2008
United States585 Posts
October 18 2008 14:10 GMT
#89
so long and so detailed.
+10 points and a round of applause.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-18 15:26:48
October 18 2008 15:22 GMT
#90
On October 18 2008 11:22 Kacas wrote:
yeah good
but now tell me how to counter this or the game will be imbalanced
=/
poor z's =/

You can open 9 pool with the exctractor trick for an extra drone . Build 6 and 2 more after lings and lay a hat at your natural then 1 more hat if he is low on marines you kill him with pure lings. If he survives and you scout him going mech you open with hidras and take the map . If he is tank heavy you switch to mutas if he is goliath heavy stick with hidras and tech , add few sunks in your main and expos so that annoying harras doesn't trow you off and he takes a base .If he masses up try plagueing his units before you engage . Use your mobility strong macro and spells to kill him . Place random lurkers on the map to slow the push you can use stop lurkers or if he has a vessel just lurkers under swarm to slow him down .


If you don't scout him going mech and open mutas you can try my personal favourite build (PS i still haven't tryed it yet )
You have already opened Mutas just try to harras and delay his push and take a third and four base momentarily the far away from him as possible . You put down 2 queens nests and update spawn broodlings and energy update for queens .After that you start to pump queens and update the ensnare . You should update air armor and stick with mass air . When you hit hive you can get plague and finish him off with plague queens and mass air units guardian/mutas/ (devourers and scourge if he has mass valks ) . I think this build will need about 4 gasses to pull of later on , but what the heck do i know i still haven't tried it yet
DanceCommander
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1808 Posts
October 18 2008 15:37 GMT
#91
wow this is a great article. i didnt really see how big these mech builds were until now ^^
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-18 15:59:46
October 18 2008 15:54 GMT
#92
Really nice post!

"Fantasy didn’t just “go mech,” he devised a completely unique, wacko opening that levels the playing field for a meching terran on those seemingly unmechable maps."

Thanks for someone that agree with me. I saw GGplays games vs Fantasy and all the retards on the TL mIRC was like "omg GGplay sucks he can't even beat mech" etc etc....


Some people said:

"omg, ggplay noob should just have hydra all-in killed fantasy!!! IM PRO I KNOW MORE THAN PROGAMERS"

Answer: NO, he couldnt, he was afraid of mass mines or something like that screwing up his hydras
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
PoP
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
France15446 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-18 16:20:55
October 18 2008 16:06 GMT
#93
Amazing post, Day. Such a smart build, hopefully it will start a new trend.

Just a little thing:
"3) When factory finishes, build the addon and begin a starport".

Actually Fantasy made a vulture first before getting the addon in both games 2 and 4, which allowed for early scouting/harrassing and forced GGPlay into making a sunken.

edit: Also, the nat CC comes right when the first vulture is out.
Administrator
capek
Profile Joined September 2008
United States585 Posts
October 18 2008 16:09 GMT
#94
On October 18 2008 10:13 Day[9] wrote:
Typical M&M TvZ vs Typical Mech TvZ
Before we focus on Fantasy’s amazingness, let’s discuss a bit of the basic functionality of TvZ. With standard M&M, the terran has the opportunity to be aggressive and finesseful.

is that a word?
Pseudo_Utopia
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Canada827 Posts
October 18 2008 16:33 GMT
#95
The build itself is a pearl because it seems to pretty pretty well-tuned to be a solid straight-up build. The only problem in my opinion is the early game. The only way to counter fast lings (especially 2 hatch speeds into muta) is to make rines with your vults (try microing 1 or 2 vults vs 16+ lings... will you have time to macro and do all your stuff? not if you don't have 300 apm) and that makes the timing to hold off 2 hatch mutas reallllly hard to meet. That's the worry I have about using this build honestly, and with seeing 2 hatch speeds into muta like 1/3 of tvz's that I play, I almost prefer the brittleness yet viability of m&m.
Retired SchiSm[LighT]
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
October 18 2008 17:00 GMT
#96
How about, not so great article, try talking/reasoning from the Zerg side of the situation too.
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
zerGosu
Profile Joined February 2008
Poland8 Posts
October 18 2008 17:04 GMT
#97
IMHO this build is just alternative against zerg, to suprise him or smth. M&M still is the best weapon. It looks very strong but only because GGplay doesn't have any idea how to deal with. As some1 said, mech is less mobile army so queens + defilers are the best counter for this.
Anyway, it's interesting to play with Valkyries, 4/5 of them will kill stacked Overlords/Mutas in a eye-blink speed.
ShmotZ
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States581 Posts
October 18 2008 17:14 GMT
#98
wow dude thanks for this analysis. mech definately is a powerhouse :D
Ah, computer dating. It's like pimping, but you rarely have to use the phrase "upside your head." - Bender
Stax
Profile Joined March 2008
Croatia121 Posts
October 18 2008 17:32 GMT
#99
Nice write up, Day. Was a good read.
Pseudo_Utopia
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Canada827 Posts
October 18 2008 18:06 GMT
#100
Yeah the lack mobility is also a factor. Think of what P does to T who is inevitably tank heavy: recall, counter, flank, make the terran run all around the map while securing expos safe from harass. Zerg doom drops could be quite powerful.
Retired SchiSm[LighT]
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
13:00
Seeding Matches
herO vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs herO
SHIN vs Clem
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Clem vs ShoWTimE
ComeBackTV 871
WardiTV243
TaKeTV 162
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
trigger 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43658
Calm 4401
Bisu 1585
Horang2 1488
Hyuk 947
Jaedong 822
Stork 428
EffOrt 395
actioN 312
ZerO 254
[ Show more ]
Last 220
firebathero 217
Sharp 214
Hyun 144
Pusan 121
Killer 86
sorry 76
Aegong 72
ToSsGirL 62
Mong 29
scan(afreeca) 28
Oya187 23
Movie 21
ajuk12(nOOB) 20
Icarus 5
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
singsing4422
Dendi1010
XcaliburYe402
League of Legends
C9.Mang0318
Counter-Strike
x6flipin879
Super Smash Bros
Westballz27
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor232
Other Games
FrodaN2263
B2W.Neo1424
Fuzer 233
XaKoH 159
KnowMe97
Mew2King49
ZerO(Twitch)21
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH212
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra831
Upcoming Events
IPSL
3h 57m
Sziky vs JDConan
BSL 21
6h 57m
Tech vs Cross
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
19h 57m
Wardi Open
22h 57m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 3h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.