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Terran Revolutionist - Page 5

Forum Index > Final Edits
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pangshai
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Chinatown5333 Posts
October 18 2008 12:29 GMT
#81
With the game on autumn wind, when fantasy's army moved out, he was rather low on valks (like 1 or 2). Just hypothesizing, but GGplay could've countered at the main of fantasy, and taken out all the SCVs, possibly even at the nat. In the meantime, his army grows stronger (because he's getting more muta), and fantasy will be unable to reinforce. Abandon his nat, since he saved the drones anyway, and get sunkens up ramp to his main to further delay the terran army (can also kill the rax and valk that provide sight upramp).

While this is all theorycrafting, technically ggplay will now be on 2 base, and fantasy will have close to 0 SCV. I just think that while fantasy's army was moving across the map, GGplay should've done more with his mutas. He ended up flying them around trying to pick off reinforcements futilely. His mutas were not helpful when the tanks were firing at his sunkens anyway, and they didn't particularly slow the rate of advancement of the terran army.
#1 midas fan
foeffa
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Belgium2115 Posts
October 18 2008 12:33 GMT
#82
Very interesting read. Good thing I'm terran. :D
觀過斯知仁矣.
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
October 18 2008 13:27 GMT
#83
MVP just tried this against the Maestro but he got destroyed, it's so sad we didn't get to see the Maestro destroy the metal build.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
TonyL2
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
England1953 Posts
October 18 2008 13:32 GMT
#84
Awesome write up Day, I wanna see more mech happen in zerg with some slight differences. Even though there's been hundreds of thousands of games played on SC, still new variations occur is which SC is the best
mIsUZu
Profile Joined August 2008
New Zealand528 Posts
October 18 2008 13:42 GMT
#85
tvz imbal..
Why So Serious?!
gm.tOSS
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany898 Posts
October 18 2008 13:47 GMT
#86
Very very nice read. Thx 4 the insight Day!
HuK HuK HuK | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | There is death in the hane.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
October 18 2008 13:56 GMT
#87
On October 18 2008 19:34 UbRi wrote:
great article, just a question: with this build order terran is likely to be ahead of zerg after the beginning, but what about the late game? it doesn't change anything about expansions being hard to take, flanks, counters.. ecc ecc
It just doesn't matter since you're going to win? In this sense, isn't it a pretty risky build order if you don't deal enough damage/delay on Z econ?

its hard to deal with all that stuff because you're usually behind economically early with mech builds, since they can take an insanely early third and power hard and you cant really do anything about it.

with this build you're gonna come out of the early game with equivalent economies barring funny stuff. playing from that situation limits zergs options significantly. look at fantasy vs ggplay on medusa. even if ggplay hadnt made that bad attack on fantasy's natural he wouldnt have had enough units to both drop and defend the push. (woulda done better, but still woulda either died or made an ineffective drop). against normal 1 rax cc or 14 cc mech zerg will have enough economy to do the counters and drops and annoying stuff while still being able to defend a counter attack (or at least theyll have an easier time attempting it)
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
October 18 2008 13:57 GMT
#88
On October 18 2008 22:27 SilverSkyLark wrote:
MVP just tried this against the Maestro but he got destroyed, it's so sad we didn't get to see the Maestro destroy the metal build.

?
that wasnt the same build.. at all
it was a 2 fac vult/tank rush
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
capek
Profile Joined September 2008
United States585 Posts
October 18 2008 14:10 GMT
#89
so long and so detailed.
+10 points and a round of applause.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-18 15:26:48
October 18 2008 15:22 GMT
#90
On October 18 2008 11:22 Kacas wrote:
yeah good
but now tell me how to counter this or the game will be imbalanced
=/
poor z's =/

You can open 9 pool with the exctractor trick for an extra drone . Build 6 and 2 more after lings and lay a hat at your natural then 1 more hat if he is low on marines you kill him with pure lings. If he survives and you scout him going mech you open with hidras and take the map . If he is tank heavy you switch to mutas if he is goliath heavy stick with hidras and tech , add few sunks in your main and expos so that annoying harras doesn't trow you off and he takes a base .If he masses up try plagueing his units before you engage . Use your mobility strong macro and spells to kill him . Place random lurkers on the map to slow the push you can use stop lurkers or if he has a vessel just lurkers under swarm to slow him down .


If you don't scout him going mech and open mutas you can try my personal favourite build (PS i still haven't tryed it yet )
You have already opened Mutas just try to harras and delay his push and take a third and four base momentarily the far away from him as possible . You put down 2 queens nests and update spawn broodlings and energy update for queens .After that you start to pump queens and update the ensnare . You should update air armor and stick with mass air . When you hit hive you can get plague and finish him off with plague queens and mass air units guardian/mutas/ (devourers and scourge if he has mass valks ) . I think this build will need about 4 gasses to pull of later on , but what the heck do i know i still haven't tried it yet
DanceCommander
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1808 Posts
October 18 2008 15:37 GMT
#91
wow this is a great article. i didnt really see how big these mech builds were until now ^^
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-18 15:59:46
October 18 2008 15:54 GMT
#92
Really nice post!

"Fantasy didn’t just “go mech,” he devised a completely unique, wacko opening that levels the playing field for a meching terran on those seemingly unmechable maps."

Thanks for someone that agree with me. I saw GGplays games vs Fantasy and all the retards on the TL mIRC was like "omg GGplay sucks he can't even beat mech" etc etc....


Some people said:

"omg, ggplay noob should just have hydra all-in killed fantasy!!! IM PRO I KNOW MORE THAN PROGAMERS"

Answer: NO, he couldnt, he was afraid of mass mines or something like that screwing up his hydras
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
PoP
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
France15446 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-18 16:20:55
October 18 2008 16:06 GMT
#93
Amazing post, Day. Such a smart build, hopefully it will start a new trend.

Just a little thing:
"3) When factory finishes, build the addon and begin a starport".

Actually Fantasy made a vulture first before getting the addon in both games 2 and 4, which allowed for early scouting/harrassing and forced GGPlay into making a sunken.

edit: Also, the nat CC comes right when the first vulture is out.
Administrator
capek
Profile Joined September 2008
United States585 Posts
October 18 2008 16:09 GMT
#94
On October 18 2008 10:13 Day[9] wrote:
Typical M&M TvZ vs Typical Mech TvZ
Before we focus on Fantasy’s amazingness, let’s discuss a bit of the basic functionality of TvZ. With standard M&M, the terran has the opportunity to be aggressive and finesseful.

is that a word?
Pseudo_Utopia
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Canada827 Posts
October 18 2008 16:33 GMT
#95
The build itself is a pearl because it seems to pretty pretty well-tuned to be a solid straight-up build. The only problem in my opinion is the early game. The only way to counter fast lings (especially 2 hatch speeds into muta) is to make rines with your vults (try microing 1 or 2 vults vs 16+ lings... will you have time to macro and do all your stuff? not if you don't have 300 apm) and that makes the timing to hold off 2 hatch mutas reallllly hard to meet. That's the worry I have about using this build honestly, and with seeing 2 hatch speeds into muta like 1/3 of tvz's that I play, I almost prefer the brittleness yet viability of m&m.
Retired SchiSm[LighT]
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
October 18 2008 17:00 GMT
#96
How about, not so great article, try talking/reasoning from the Zerg side of the situation too.
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
zerGosu
Profile Joined February 2008
Poland8 Posts
October 18 2008 17:04 GMT
#97
IMHO this build is just alternative against zerg, to suprise him or smth. M&M still is the best weapon. It looks very strong but only because GGplay doesn't have any idea how to deal with. As some1 said, mech is less mobile army so queens + defilers are the best counter for this.
Anyway, it's interesting to play with Valkyries, 4/5 of them will kill stacked Overlords/Mutas in a eye-blink speed.
ShmotZ
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States581 Posts
October 18 2008 17:14 GMT
#98
wow dude thanks for this analysis. mech definately is a powerhouse :D
Ah, computer dating. It's like pimping, but you rarely have to use the phrase "upside your head." - Bender
Stax
Profile Joined March 2008
Croatia121 Posts
October 18 2008 17:32 GMT
#99
Nice write up, Day. Was a good read.
Pseudo_Utopia
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Canada827 Posts
October 18 2008 18:06 GMT
#100
Yeah the lack mobility is also a factor. Think of what P does to T who is inevitably tank heavy: recall, counter, flank, make the terran run all around the map while securing expos safe from harass. Zerg doom drops could be quite powerful.
Retired SchiSm[LighT]
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