EPTSHIT! amazing write up though, props.
Terran Revolutionist - Page 9
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mSLeGenD
115 Posts
SHIT! amazing write up though, props. | ||
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Goosey
United States695 Posts
Someone give this guy a cookie! | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
I was walking all over the youtube nubs crying about Boxer revolutionizing TvZ with his valk openings...but this totally changes my viewpoint. FANTASY of all ppl has definitely created something new. I want to try this out myself...lol. | ||
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parkin
1080 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + What did Canata do wrong? / July do right? What should Canata have done differently? | ||
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
finally... ter can mech aginst EVERY1 MWHAHAHAHA (man we r gonna look like douche bags ==) | ||
ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
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LordWeird
United States3411 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
On October 22 2008 05:23 parkin wrote: Day[9], what is you analysis of the July vs Canata game? + Show Spoiler + What did Canata do wrong? / July do right? What should Canata have done differently? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz9vYUhojHw he didnt use a dropship | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10727 Posts
People say he waited to long to finish, but ive never seen a big opening to *finish* it? After the nice Vult-Harass he basically had nothing to really attack (Vults don't do it against even small groups of Hyds), he needed Gholiats to defend against Mutas, the Muta harass may not *hurt* Canata but it did what it had to: Canata couldn't build many Tanks, therefore he was not having the units to finish the game right away. After July recovered fully it was over... July's Positioning/Map/Unitcontroll were just way above Canatas (as should be expected regarding theyr achievments ). | ||
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Sadir
Vatican City State1176 Posts
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SkepTicAL
Canada872 Posts
 . Not all maps are viable for this build imo. It's just my opinion though so feel free to prove me wrong ;D | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Effort proved that a ling all-in can work well and I'm convinced a decently timed hydra push would have the same effect. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On October 26 2008 09:20 Klive5ive wrote: I'm convinced that this is all just a fad, there's nothing "revolutionary" about Mech and Valkries. They just happen to work alright on certain maps if you catch your opponent off-guard and even then there are gaping holes in the timing of the build if properly scouted. + Show Spoiler + Effort proved that a ling all-in can work well and I'm convinced a decently timed hydra push would have the same effect. every major strategical shift is kind of "just a fad" you don't see many P's going dt/sair anymore but you don't see anyone calling that a fad | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On October 26 2008 15:40 Hot_Bid wrote: every major strategical shift is kind of "just a fad" you don't see many P's going dt/sair anymore but you don't see anyone calling that a fad I don't think it's a "major strategical shift" though. I'm ready to be proved wrong but I don't see this being used much in the future. SK Terran is just such a beautiful way to play against Zerg.... and it's effective too. Is the loss of momentum in the early game worth it when SK Terran can apply pressure throughout all phases of the game? | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
Up till now only fantasy has used this exact build where he FEs at the same time his first vult leaves the base (every other mech build since has a more delayed nat for extra safety). From that time till his mines finish, vult micro is all he has and slow vults are no match for mass speed lings. The massive gaping hole in this "nu-metal" build is still the same as every metal build, the pathetic early game. Get mines first you can't stop speed lings, get speed first you can't stop hydra, either way the FE's gonna fall. Dropship is also too slow to come now that zergs have adjusted their response. Back when GGplay had no practice against it, he still made game 4 out to be a nail biter. It's not gonna work anymore on standard open maps. But hey, fantasy's already won the semi, so mission accomplished. That build totally carried him. | ||
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kramus
United States1259 Posts
i like day[9]'s write-up though | ||
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Kong John
Denmark1020 Posts
Its just a onetime thing you can do, beacourse Z is so used to bio builds. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On October 27 2008 17:58 Kong John wrote: This really isent that special, there is a reason why pros dont use these mechbuilds zvt this isent something thats just been invented. The only reason Fantasy won like he did is beacourse GGplay dident expect it, and therefor forgot the right counters. Now that its been used again pros will remeber how to counter it. Its just a onetime thing you can do, beacourse Z is so used to bio builds. I agree mech builds gets me the most only by surprise when terrans are going wraiths for example and i go mutas and he starts harrassing . It is just a 1 time thing if i expect them i go hidras and just harras don't overextend if he has a good wall in and 2 or more tanks and just continue to tech to mutas and take expands . But If he opens vultures i think i'm gonna rape him because he will update first mines as you stated and mines don't do shit when i get 8+ hidras with range . I just send an overlord always at their natural .Vulture drops can always be protected 2 or 1 sunk in your main 1 at natural and you have your hidras before he can drop . i think this build will only work if you are teching to mutas first as in standard TvZ otherwise it is not a very good build because you are overextending . I mean the terran opens vultures with mines and starport for dropship . Then you build a fast CC and update siege for tanks and you even have to make valks or just stick with normal goliath/tanks combo .I too don't think that it is a special build but just a variant of a mech build . You can also make wraiths in to mech after. It is just the choise of harras you would like to put on early game to fool your opponent and take an expansion and start going goliaths/tanks . Mines may be good for defending ling all -ins but i don't see it working vs Hidra openings just like wraiths . Edit: -Mines prevent scouting lings and discourage early hydra pushes -The fast dropship not only allows for a quick scout, but also quick pressure that discourages zerg’s 3rd/4th expansion. -Gets a relatively fast expansion that’s quite safe Ok they can kill scouting lings . 4 vultures can place a grand total of 12 mines . I don't know how a 1 fact vulture pump with mines discourages early 3 hat hydra pushes that is beyond me ? I don't know how quick this pressure is going to be and if i open hidras i don't know if it even do eny damage. How will it discourage me to not expand i mean a mere 4 vultures and a dropship ? I can take 2 expansions for all i care 4 vultures can't kill an expo before my hidras about 8 + and more comeing to it .Even if he drops your main you can still defend it with 1 sunk or hidras if you don't know its comeing .Overlords can scout both the drops and the mines . Mech build can backfire easly Effort vs Fantasy and Flash vs GGplay are e prof for that . Mines couldn't stop the lings from GGplay . And effort just out produses him 3 hat lings vs 1 fact vults with mines How can you expand in that situation ? The only way is if the zergs put sunkens up in fear at his natural and plays standard to mutas . I think Testie explained it the best that mech is the strongest if it gets you by surprise otherwise it has counters to it like eny other mech build . | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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