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Terran Revolutionist - Page 8

Forum Index > Final Edits
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SpiralArchitect
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2116 Posts
October 19 2008 19:50 GMT
#141
Fuck yes! This so deserved a Final Edit, I thought it would go featured but hell yeah this is even better!
TeamLiquids #1 illiterate writer, writin dem wordz is de hardz.
sqwert
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States781 Posts
October 19 2008 21:19 GMT
#142
ultras + swarm > mech terran as seen in ggplay vs flash some days ago in msl or osl i forgot.
if everythings coming your way, youre in the wrong lane. sAviOr 4evar!
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
October 19 2008 22:01 GMT
#143
On October 20 2008 06:19 sqwert wrote:
ultras + swarm > mech terran as seen in ggplay vs flash some days ago in msl or osl i forgot.


You havent seen Fantasy vs GGplay right? Watch it, come back, and say that again.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
capek
Profile Joined September 2008
United States585 Posts
October 19 2008 22:11 GMT
#144
Very much deserved FE.
Well done day.

On October 20 2008 07:01 Zoler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2008 06:19 sqwert wrote:
ultras + swarm > mech terran as seen in ggplay vs flash some days ago in msl or osl i forgot.


You havent seen Fantasy vs GGplay right? Watch it, come back, and say that again.

Yeah... Seriously. That's what this article is about. If you haven't watched it then of course you aren't going to understand it.
Whyzguy
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada263 Posts
October 20 2008 03:42 GMT
#145
Revolution is definately the right word. Nice writeup!

Imagine the guys at blizzard intented for this Valk thing happen and are wondering why it's taken so long to figure out.

Maybe the Queen also has a higher purpose? Just throwing it out there... Ensnare?
"He who throws dirt, is losing ground." - Fortune Cookie [May 2011]
joohyunee
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Korea (South)1087 Posts
October 20 2008 04:44 GMT
#146
There is a game from PL where Canata uses a similar build but July manages to counter it successfully, somehow. maybe we can study how he reacted to the build and work with it?
economist_
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Vietnam719 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-20 05:26:17
October 20 2008 05:24 GMT
#147
I would be skeptical to call this mechbuild a revolution. This one is entirely different from the Counter-all Bisu build which was a real revolution. It is clearly not connter-all because one important factor for the success of this BO is surprise to Z. Without it, it fails miserably to adapt to change in situation where Z knows exactly what you are supposed to do , even you can deny scouting from Z. I would call it the innovation resulting from the map pack used this year that has so many cliffs

After the game Canata vs July yesterday, I would say that July has been the destroyer of any renovation from the other P and T. He just adapted perfectly to the situation. The Bisu build fails miserably when scouting is denied and timing attack is carefully executed where as against this mech build, thanks to the narrowed entrance to the nat, the flanking of hydra would make Tank useless to attack to end game early when defiler is not out yet

Economics forecast assumes everything, except responsibilities
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-20 06:00:28
October 20 2008 05:55 GMT
#148
On October 20 2008 13:44 joohyunee wrote:
There is a game from PL where Canata uses a similar build but July manages to counter it successfully, somehow. maybe we can study how he reacted to the build and work with it?




that?

didn't see a vulture drop in this one thou
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
October 20 2008 06:44 GMT
#149
Wow! Quite an informative article about tvz mech. I learned a lot from reading this, thanks.
Brood War loyalist
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
October 20 2008 07:20 GMT
#150
I've tried this build some games now and it's pretty nice!

Every time when the zerg goes muta I win no problem. The times I lost is when they go like lurker / hydra drop or just standard lurker and attack me with me not having acad or ebay (using earlier acad now to counter den if I see it, so it's not a problem).

How to stop a drop I'm not sure, I suck at defending drops. Well, not defending them, but I suck at knowing when to expect a drop. Siege and units easily defend drops if you are prepared.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
SilverskY
Profile Joined September 2008
Korea (South)3086 Posts
October 20 2008 07:41 GMT
#151
On October 20 2008 06:19 sqwert wrote:
ultras + swarm > mech terran as seen in ggplay vs flash some days ago in msl or osl i forgot.

Did you actually watch the match between Savior and Flash in the OP... I suggest you do before making such a post.
Graphics
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
October 20 2008 08:18 GMT
#152
On October 20 2008 16:20 Zoler wrote:
I've tried this build some games now and it's pretty nice!

Every time when the zerg goes muta I win no problem. The times I lost is when they go like lurker / hydra drop or just standard lurker and attack me with me not having acad or ebay (using earlier acad now to counter den if I see it, so it's not a problem).

How to stop a drop I'm not sure, I suck at defending drops. Well, not defending them, but I suck at knowing when to expect a drop. Siege and units easily defend drops if you are prepared.

If a Terran has good scouting + valks, a zerg is usually foolish to drop, right?
ModeratorGood content always wins.
triglo
Profile Joined October 2008
14 Posts
October 20 2008 08:58 GMT
#153
hyuk beat flash with a drop when flash had valks bout 1 month ago
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-20 09:40:49
October 20 2008 09:38 GMT
#154
I wonder why he didnt make a wraith but went for the starport add-on straight away =/.

Imo this wraith can do the same thing as the sair in the bisu build so what zerg is doing and mb kill a stray overlord over your ramp so a hydra all in doesnt bust up your mine field there.

Also this would allow you to play 2 port against a 2 hatch muta cause you see exactly what he is up to and factory > starport timing is quicker than the 2 hatch muta.

Anyone a explination for not getting the wraith in?
ZZangDreamjOy
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada959 Posts
October 20 2008 12:19 GMT
#155
On October 20 2008 18:38 4Servy wrote:
I wonder why he didnt make a wraith but went for the starport add-on straight away =/.

Imo this wraith can do the same thing as the sair in the bisu build so what zerg is doing and mb kill a stray overlord over your ramp so a hydra all in doesnt bust up your mine field there.

Also this would allow you to play 2 port against a 2 hatch muta cause you see exactly what he is up to and factory > starport timing is quicker than the 2 hatch muta.

Anyone a explination for not getting the wraith in?


You want to get valk's quick because all zergs NORMALLY go 3 hatch muta, and wraiths are weak against mutalisk clumps. Your defending yourself with goliath's and valks.
HitEmUp
Narrator
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States868 Posts
October 20 2008 13:09 GMT
#156
Nice, you made TLFE! Good job Day. :D
Metaspace
Profile Joined November 2006
Austria670 Posts
October 20 2008 13:54 GMT
#157
nice analysis!
Wir haben zuwenig Vespingas!
NahLGaE
Profile Joined February 2008
Korea (South)523 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-20 16:02:26
October 20 2008 15:54 GMT
#158
good post and regarding the new strat i mostly agree its really solid and the only good counter i can think of is what ggplay did against flash in the last ro16 match when flash succeeded with a similar but bit diff (also more standard minus the way he harassed with proxy rax) mech on plasma. the key similarly that relates to this post is after flash took a big advantage early with harassment, he took his expo and mined heavily to stop a zerg counter before he could build mech up. as u say in the post, the early mines are what counters the early lurk ling rush but a brilliant allin play like the one ggplay pulled off against flash, pushing lurks in first to clean up mines which might have been a hurried mistake that actually worked out well, might also work against fantasy's build. i realize plasma is a special type of map thats also more open in the expo areas once the eggs are broken thru and saying an all in is a possible counter is also not totally valid but again i think that speaks to how solid fantasy's build is and thats all i can think of.

also interesting that commentators were saying how a lot of players are now practicing that build and it took fantasy 2 months of practice to get it down. might really be a revolution

edit: also reading thru the other posts reminded me of more games and i think in general a well timed and executed all in with several dif strats could work well but once again not much else cept all ins..
마재윤.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-20 17:39:50
October 20 2008 17:32 GMT
#159
On October 19 2008 12:12 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2008 08:11 fw wrote:
if you know korean, listen to how oov thinks. oov shows great confidence in this build.

http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=88963&db=interview&page=&field=&kwrd=

Korean communities are hyping it as oov's Last Theorem (hint: Fermat)
The funny story of it is like this.
when oov appeared as a guest in OGN Live Battle (03, Aug), he said that
he's trying to make new builds. he intended to show a revolutionary (yep he said it himself,
though T1 players was negative to that strat) TvZ strat during live battle
but the opponent 5pool'ed. lol therefore it's remained unrevealed.
actually that game was suspected of min-hack and huge controversy
arose on the community. check it out if you haven't watched,

http://mcjack.tistory.com/entry/제목을-입력해-주세요

last but not the least, if you see sort of 200mana-vessel-timing push TvP, know it's oov build.


almost all of the builds that are popular right now were created by iloveoov. anything the people around here seem to like calling "flash build" (despite the fact that the "flash build" is a very specific counter to stork's style on katrina) is a build iloveoov created

Agreed
I remember seeing flash vs ggplay on python where flash does this fast +1 weap build. I thought flash invented the build and than i see old vods of oov doing it before flash even became a pro o.O
On October 19 2008 10:06 meRz wrote:
I've tried this build out now the entire day vs zergs, i'm currently 8-0 (lol) with the build. Some of the games has been vs prettty good foreign zergs. I went 3-0 vs a guy who expected it the 2 last games, and it still worked.

I'd give it a week until the progamers have figured out how to beat it though ;o

EDIT:

It's pretty fucking genius how well this build has been thought out. Like Day says in his initial post, the dropship is key, and I mean really fucking KEY to the whole strategy. Not only does it disrupt the plan of massexpoing for the zerg, it also gathers shitloads of intel like a permenent scanner early on. You have so much information that you'd be a fool if you couldn't adjust accordingly to what the zerg is doing.

The first valkyrie kinda plays the same role as well, pretty much like how the first corsair in pvz gives the protoss player a general idea of what he's up against. Sometimes, you don't even need to produce that first valk, seeing how if your zerg opponent isn't going mutas, you could tech straight to tank/goli without having to worry. Also, the dropship/valk works excellent as a expo-scouter, seeing how its easy as hell to just patrol the map and find all the expos.


I would be interested in some reps hehe.

On October 20 2008 13:44 joohyunee wrote:
There is a game from PL where Canata uses a similar build but July manages to counter it successfully, somehow. maybe we can study how he reacted to the build and work with it?

Canata vs July was a totally different build compared to fantasy's. Day's post says that the dropship is the whole key to the build. In the Canata vs july game canata never made a dropship.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Ghostclaws
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
114 Posts
October 20 2008 21:11 GMT
#160
very nicely written, great analysis Day! and Oov is just amazing; I think he deserves alot more credit for this, still changing the game even as a coach. 200 mana vessel TvP timing push, who knew there were still such things to be explored!
hhjkkjhgffghhgg, hhjkkjhgffghgff
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