EPTTerran Revolutionist - Page 6
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Empyrean
17082 Posts
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Pseudo_Utopia
Canada827 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
On October 19 2008 02:04 zerGosu wrote: IMHO this build is just alternative against zerg, to suprise him or smth. M&M still is the best weapon. It looks very strong but only because GGplay doesn't have any idea how to deal with. As some1 said, mech is less mobile army so queens + defilers are the best counter for this. Anyway, it's interesting to play with Valkyries, 4/5 of them will kill stacked Overlords/Mutas in a eye-blink speed. watch a game between flash and savior, flash starved savior to death | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Edit: By much more standard, I mean could it become a non-surprise, straight-up solid strategy, sort of like 1rax FE already is, on most if not all maps. | ||
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Narrator
United States868 Posts
Thank you for posting the steps of the build order, as well. I have to try out this build now! | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On October 19 2008 04:38 Orome wrote: oh screw you, I have a word document open right now with the beginnings of an article about the recent mech games. Write it anyway! | ||
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Blue
Norway359 Posts
did anybody write an extensive article on terran evolution in general? like switch from 1 base mnm to 1 rax FE. what is nada`s contribution to terran evolution compared to oov, xellos etc sorry about the offtopicness of my question | ||
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Ideas
United States8178 Posts
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FConnectionUK
United States316 Posts
On October 19 2008 05:54 Ideas wrote: Wasn't Mind the 1st person to use valks on plasma? If you were to nicpick everything, we can give the whole credit to Boxer. Savior vs Boxer super fight TWO YEARS AGO. Boxer used the IDENTICAL build order. Boxer used Valks and fast Goliath to proceed his tech. The only difference was he was aiming for fast vessel instead of more mech units. And this was two years ago. Doesn't stop there either. Boxer just recently, even before this series, used this build order in Intel Classic against some nameless zerg to defend against Mutas in the same fashion. The commentator was saying before, after, and during the game how Oov and Fantasy prepared very hard for this series. But we all know who Oov is the best friends with, Boxer. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this build order has been (heavily) influenced by Boxer. Then again, I love Boxer too much. Maybe I've gone crazy, relating everything to Boxer. lol... Oh and yes, Fantasy deserve all the hype because he is the one, after all, who perfected it. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
In your outline of the build order I think you failed to see the key elements that turned the strategy into such a success. 1. Fantasy builds one vulture to deny scout before addon. GGPlay obviously thinks a vulture runby is impending, causing him to spend money on a sunken. AND judging by his fast hydra den I'm quite confident he expected 2 starport wraiths out of fantasy, not an FE after building only one vulture. He did not expect the fast expansion to be that fast. The last game he simply didn't know how to respond to fantasy's build. In my opinion he should've gone for the hydras instead of the mutalisks. Or at least transitioned into hydras instead of continuing on the doomed pathway of low econ pure muta. The muta's achieved their purpose when they caused: 1) a good amount of scv kills 2) fantasy to stay turtled in his base Fantasy's first push is very low on tank numbers. Hydras are better suited as a counter, especially with valkyries being a huge issue. 2. He did not upgrade vulture speed. Again. The only thing fantasy wanted out of the vultures was keeping his opponent in the dark, and temporarily securing map control. Preventing a mad expo style zerg, while at the same time preventing an all-in to his base, and while at the same time harassing while setting himself up for midgame. The timing of the gols/valkyries is crucial, he can't afford spending minerals/gas on useless upgrades that delays his timing. Fantasy basically has no units except for vultures the first 5 minutes of the game. Another argument for this being a surprise element build is how poorly GGPlay faired and adapted. As soon as he sees a refinery in the future, I can promise you that his 3rd OL will be sent to the nearest 2nd natural, his 4th OL respectively towards the middle. I can guarantee you his OL speed will be quicker. And his break attempt on the natural substantially quicker, as well as the drops in the main. Hydra drops will act as an element of fear very much so as pure mutalisks would have. | ||
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Ideas
United States8178 Posts
On October 19 2008 06:09 FConnectionUK wrote: If you were to nicpick everything, we can give the whole credit to Boxer. Savior vs Boxer super fight TWO YEARS AGO. Boxer used the IDENTICAL build order. Boxer used Valks and fast Goliath to proceed his tech. The only difference was he was aiming for fast vessel instead of more mech units. And this was two years ago. Doesn't stop there either. Boxer just recently, even before this series, used this build order in Intel Classic against some nameless zerg to defend against Mutas in the same fashion. The commentator was saying before, after, and during the game how Oov and Fantasy prepared very hard for this series. But we all know who Oov is the best friends with, Boxer. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this build order has been (heavily) influenced by Boxer. Then again, I love Boxer too much. Maybe I've gone crazy, relating everything to Boxer. lol... Oh and yes, Fantasy deserve all the hype because he is the one, after all, who perfected it. The way I sort of saw it is that before Mind was the 1st T to get valks on plasma (all others just went pure wraiths) to counter mutas, which were the best counter to wraiths on plasma. I can't help but feel that midas saw that game and said to himself "HEY THAT WORKS GOOD VS MUTA" and make valks himself in his game vs thezerg. Then I assume every terren (including boxer) started to think about valks again. But that's just all speculation, maybe in fact fantasy/oov come up with all this w/o any influence from Mind's game on Plasma, but I really think Mind influenced this build a lot. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
2 ideas that have been thrown around are 2 hatch muta and 3-4 hatch into dark swarm to stop the ball. | ||
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inlagdsil
Canada957 Posts
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Zuries
United Kingdom156 Posts
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fw
Korea (South)1201 Posts
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=88963&db=interview&page=&field=&kwrd= Korean communities are hyping it as oov's Last Theorem (hint: Fermat) The funny story of it is like this. when oov appeared as a guest in OGN Live Battle (03, Aug), he said that he's trying to make new builds. he intended to show a revolutionary (yep he said it himself, though T1 players was negative to that strat) TvZ strat during live battle but the opponent 5pool'ed. lol therefore it's remained unrevealed. actually that game was suspected of min-hack and huge controversy arose on the community. check it out if you haven't watched, http://mcjack.tistory.com/entry/제목을-입력해-주세요 last but not the least, if you see sort of 200mana-vessel-timing push TvP, know it's oov build.  | ||
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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
I'd give it a week until the progamers have figured out how to beat it though ;o EDIT: It's pretty fucking genius how well this build has been thought out. Like Day says in his initial post, the dropship is key, and I mean really fucking KEY to the whole strategy. Not only does it disrupt the plan of massexpoing for the zerg, it also gathers shitloads of intel like a permenent scanner early on. You have so much information that you'd be a fool if you couldn't adjust accordingly to what the zerg is doing. The first valkyrie kinda plays the same role as well, pretty much like how the first corsair in pvz gives the protoss player a general idea of what he's up against. Sometimes, you don't even need to produce that first valk, seeing how if your zerg opponent isn't going mutas, you could tech straight to tank/goli without having to worry. Also, the dropship/valk works excellent as a expo-scouter, seeing how its easy as hell to just patrol the map and find all the expos. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
On October 19 2008 08:11 fw wrote: if you know korean, listen to how oov thinks. oov shows great confidence in this build. http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=88963&db=interview&page=&field=&kwrd= Korean communities are hyping it as oov's Last Theorem (hint: Fermat) The funny story of it is like this. when oov appeared as a guest in OGN Live Battle (03, Aug), he said that he's trying to make new builds. he intended to show a revolutionary (yep he said it himself, though T1 players was negative to that strat) TvZ strat during live battle but the opponent 5pool'ed. lol therefore it's remained unrevealed. actually that game was suspected of min-hack and huge controversy arose on the community. check it out if you haven't watched, http://mcjack.tistory.com/entry/제목을-입력해-주세요 last but not the least, if you see sort of 200mana-vessel-timing push TvP, know it's oov build. ^ translation of the above videos please. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 19 2008 08:11 fw wrote: if you know korean, listen to how oov thinks. oov shows great confidence in this build. http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=88963&db=interview&page=&field=&kwrd= Korean communities are hyping it as oov's Last Theorem (hint: Fermat) The funny story of it is like this. when oov appeared as a guest in OGN Live Battle (03, Aug), he said that he's trying to make new builds. he intended to show a revolutionary (yep he said it himself, though T1 players was negative to that strat) TvZ strat during live battle but the opponent 5pool'ed. lol therefore it's remained unrevealed. actually that game was suspected of min-hack and huge controversy arose on the community. check it out if you haven't watched, http://mcjack.tistory.com/entry/제목을-입력해-주세요 last but not the least, if you see sort of 200mana-vessel-timing push TvP, know it's oov build. almost all of the builds that are popular right now were created by iloveoov. anything the people around here seem to like calling "flash build" (despite the fact that the "flash build" is a very specific counter to stork's style on katrina) is a build iloveoov created | ||
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