EPTSeriously this is some premium quality shit that only TL has. We have the TSL, we have these great Final Edit articles, we have PowerRank, we have the best strategy forum, we have the the best liquibet.
*sheds a tear* I love TL.net *sniffle*
A State of Starcraft - Page 3
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Goosey
United States695 Posts
Seriously this is some premium quality shit that only TL has. We have the TSL, we have these great Final Edit articles, we have PowerRank, we have the best strategy forum, we have the the best liquibet. *sheds a tear* I love TL.net *sniffle* | ||
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
When I played Soldat on a high level, I specifically trained my players in my clan to do this. Not to aim well, not to dodge well, but to destroy your opponent's preconceptions, to unnerve him and take him out of "the zone". Being unpredictable. Clarify your opponent's actions into the future while making your own actions in not make sense even backwards into the past. Getting into your opponents mind and not just reading what he's going to do, but CHANGING what he's going to do. Almost mind control, just a lot more subtle. Instead of aiming well, making your opponent aim worse. The mindgames are endless. You don't even have to listen or look, you just predict where they're coming and fire and the bullet travels and hits them in the face right as they turn the corner before they can actually see you. Rather a pity that soldat makes such a poor spectator sport, as none of this mental battle is very VISIBLE to someone watching, just somehow one guy dies and the other one doesn't. I also think that this is what players are destroying Idra with, in and outside of Korea. For example White-Ra in the TSL. White-Ra in my opinion is a worse player mechanically but he completely outsmarted Idra and fucked his thoughtprocesss. Sun Tzu's Art of War speaks about a lot of these concepts. There's a story in there about an ancient chinese general that went to attack a city. The defender realized that he could not hold the city for long and formed a plan ahead of time. The attacking army arrived at the gates, the general in front. There were no defenders on the walls. The gate was open, and inside there were just a few people sweeping the streets, acting as if they don't notice the attackers at all. The general was so unnerved that he retreated. | ||
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gokai
United States812 Posts
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kpcrew
Korea (South)1071 Posts
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poilord
Germany3252 Posts
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
Absolutely not true. Jaedong's best matchup, and I'd argue by far, is his zvz. | ||
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
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Alethios
New Zealand2765 Posts
On June 11 2008 07:40 LucasWoJ wrote: I haven't read through the comments yet but the article says "Jaedong reversed the harm that Bisu had done by turning his weakest match up into his strongest and developed a way to fight off the harass." Absolutely not true. Jaedong's best matchup, and I'd argue by far, is his zvz. I don't think anybody can deny though, that his step from loosing to  Rock in the OSC Playoffs in really bad games to his domination of Stork in the finals was nothing short of a complete turn around.He went from the "don't pick protoss" Zerg to "pick whoever you like, your ass is mine" Zerg over the course of that series. That being said, I'd have to agree with you. We don't know how he does it... but  Jaedong just can't seem to lose a ZvZ... it's obscene. | ||
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DanceCommander
United States1808 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 11 2008 05:08 nofAcedAgent wrote: wow first "mind games" and now this.. Really nice read plex, thank you for it Cheers EDIT: larger nada image available? thx ![[image loading]](http://www.m25.co.kr/ezcafestock/img/1191976636.jpg) On June 11 2008 03:48 ScarFace wrote: Well to be fair FBH was arguably the best Terran of the era. Iris made Daum finals, then sucked. Flash wasn't quite at his peak and Hwasin also blew out after GomS2. FBH kept it together and was one of the principle efforts of Khans season one victory. Sure he dropped off as well, but he was still a very good terran who would tend to win rather than lose - regardless of the opponent. His TvP was crap, but hi strength in the other two matchups was undeniable. The point of including FBH was that there were many powerful gamers emerging from no where. Before GomS2 FBH was only known for his gay little dances and knocking boxer out of his last ODT. He turned himself around and showed people what was up - notably by crushing Savior. I love this well written article, but how is FBH one of the greats that propped up after the bonjwa interregnum? He had strong tvz and tvt [he was on quite a streak] but never really had strong tvp, he never really reached the level where you could give him even odds against any person in the game, or even close to it. His tvp doesn't allow it. Sure he was a strong competitor when he was at his height, but I don't think hes comparable to Hwasin or others- he simply was not well rounded enough. Otherwise INCREDIBLY well written article. I have a question though; Best defeated Flash, probably because of Flash's mindset. He was overconfident. What do you think will happen when they meet again in the OSL? Will his lost to Best be detrimental to him, or will he bounce back? And how could he make such a large mistake, if he wins simply through smart play/champion mindset? I dont think the loss will have that much effect of him tbh. Flash showed that losing one game doesn't affect him that much. Jaedong stomped him in MSL, Flash stomps him twice back. Stork crushes him in OSL group play, Flash stomps him in two finals. If they meet, it will be a great match - but i dont think their prior encounter will affect Flash too much. However i think that the win by Best is crucial for him. He knows that Flash can be beat, and he's knows that he's got the talent to do so. So he should be able to bring his best to the table and not be intimidated by Flash.On June 11 2008 04:22 EvoChamber wrote: Although im not exactly a Jaedong fan, i have noticed a number of trends in progaming. For example, Savior was still dominant as ever right up until FBH crushed him in S2. But you could see that he was losing steam- it was pretty obvious. I think the same thing will happen to Jaedong. Hwasin looks poised to take him out - and the "fear" that used to surround Jaedong isn't there anymore. Hwasin will probably beat Jaedong, in an epic 5 games series, and after that we'll see Jaedong flail about for another season then crash. You could say that about other monsters too. Reach rocked Oov right to his core in Ever04 when he beat him with macro. Oov was still dominant, and raped up Uzoo MSL but when he ran into Reach - he got 3-0'd in a bad fashion. The crash never happens instantaneously, it takes a little time - but its going to happen. Although your comments about the changes in Terran timing/placement are valid as well - they're not mutually exclusive concepts Plexa, do you think that it's harder to push Terran players out of their comfort zone due to the nature of the race? I feel like the meta-game favors the development of Terran maestros, simply because it's so much harder to disrupt a Terran's equilibrium compared to Zerg. You're being a little harsh on Jaedong; as far as I can see, it's tiny and crucial developments in turret placement and timing that are disrupting his ZvT flow more than any mental weakness, since he still dominates the other two matchups.  Also, what about Iris? He was definitely worth listing with FBH, Stork, and Hwasin among the list of post-Savior's fall wizards. Yea Iris is also a valid gamer that propped up, although personally i felt his rise to be in Shinhan 3, which was prior to Savior. He just kept up the momentum for another season then dropped off. Although he was a very good gamer in his own right sure i could've added him to the list - but theres no need. The list was to show that bundles of gamers propped up after Saviors decline, something which is unique to 2007. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 11 2008 07:40 LucasWoJ wrote: Well obviously ZvZ isn't a real matchup? lol no in all seriousness thats a fair point, and saying that it became his 'best' matchup is probably an overstatement... since Ever07 he's gone 10-0 in ZvZ and 13-4 ZvP. The point was to emphasize that Jaedong revolutionised his own playstyle, as Alethios said, and his ZvP did a 180. Although personally i feel that Jaedong's 'force' comes through more in his ZvP than ZvT/ZvZ if you know what i mean.I haven't read through the comments yet but the article says "Jaedong reversed the harm that Bisu had done by turning his weakest match up into his strongest and developed a way to fight off the harass." Absolutely not true. Jaedong's best matchup, and I'd argue by far, is his zvz. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
everyones sort of nitpicking some parts though | ||
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Descent
1244 Posts
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Bifur
Russian Federation1208 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
I think the whole Jaedong being beaten by Flash thing is still unfortunately overblown. Jaedong beats him soundly in a bo5 3-1, then loses two bo3s 2-1. They were very evenly matched, and I think that even at the time Jaedong still had a slight advantage in his play (judging strictly from how both players fared in the more standard straight-up games). Obviously since then Flash has remained unstoppable while Jaedong does lose occasionally (as long as it's not ZvZ). However, I really don't think that Jaedong is crashing down, by any means. My point in all this is that while Flash obviously deserves a large part in an article like this at this point in time, I don't think Jaedong should be so easily brushed aside. I also think that you could have written a fair bit about players like Sea in this article. There is really no better example of a player who seems to be affected by mindset to the point of losing games he would be considered the favorite in. How can a player with a 64% lifetime win percentage with over 200 games played never have even a medal in any major starleague? It's such an amazing case, and even his expressions during and after games are telling enough! | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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