EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 61
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:28 Musou wrote: Good point. But I somehow doubt the CFL is anywhere near as big as the NFL. Also, Canada only cares about hockey. Everyone knows this! Yeah well the canadians dont practice enough and their tournaments to date are all a farce. I personally take no enjoyment in watching them. If only the american stars would go play in canada it would mean something. Dont get upset canadian fans, my words aren't phrased in an inflammatory manner at all, your just reading it that way because of your 5 year old maturity and fanboyism. (note this is pure irony and farcical statements but its ok I can make up some biased stats in case anyone wants to use it for their sites editorial section, someone else needs to do the cool graphics though) | ||
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biskit
Australia355 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:29 zatic wrote: But anyway I was wondering why people get angry over the OP not some other, hypothetical opinion. Thank you for your answer. I think people are angry because this article is biased, argumentative and a veiled BW > SC2 post. And it gets featured. | ||
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DminusTerran
Canada1337 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:32 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: how about we all ignore this one sentence and all be happy? There are a few more that are similarly toned, and honestly I would be perfectly fine with the article as a whole if they were removed. It just goes to show you should probably have an impartial eye do the editing. Though I guess that would've taken out the inflammatory context of the article that the author intended all along though. | ||
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Riotbot
United States87 Posts
1) SC2 is NOT just BW with shinier graphics. They are different games. They both draw on a similar skill-set obviously, but SC2 is not as mechanically demanding, the MUs don't necessarily work the same way they did in BW, and a lot of other minor differences that all add up. Of course they're similar, but not similar enough for people to jump between the two completely interchangeably. 2) If money is the only thing stopping these alleged 300 BW pros from completely dominating SC2, I'm curious as to why specific player salaries were cherry-picked rather than just stating that the 300 players below Flash/JD are all making way more money than is worth gambling for a shot at SC2 Code-S golds. I don't know how much these other players are making, but the farther those numbers fall short of the given 80-90k the less sense that argument makes. 3) SC2 is indeed still in its infancy when compared to BW. Which doesn't make it a stomping ground for BW pros – it makes it a whole different kind of playing field. While BW is well understood and dominated by inside-out knowledge of the game, lightning fast mechanics, and (just as importantly) the knowledge and experience to always put those lightning fast mechanics to solid use, SC2 is a lot more of a dice roll still where what wins and loses games isn't quite so obvious and/or practicable at the most intricate depths. Being good at BW won't necessarily put you miles ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to trudging through the learning curve of something as immensely complicated as a BW-like holistic understanding of the game. Flash and JD are BW gods, nobody is arguing that, but let's not forget that they're still standing on the shoulders of giants. 4) Lastly, I could be wrong on this one, but I feel like SC2 houses aren't nearly as liberal with their practice regiments as the article made them out to be. Sure, they might not be AS grueling as BW houses - but I have a hard time buying that given how competitive and driven a lot of these guys have to be to reach the tippy top of such a popular and skill-intensive game like SC2 (in the StarCraft Mecca no less), they'd just totally slack off when thrown into a practice house with their teams and coaches and basically a lifestyle entirely centered around the game. Again, that's pure conjecture. Maybe they are all really lazy by comparison. I just felt a sneaking suspicion the article might have been whitewashing a lot of hard work and pride under the rug with those kinds of claims. At the end of the day, of course I agree a lot of top BW players would do really well in SC2. I just don't think SC2 was given a fair case, and that BW stats were being given more weight in SC2 skill than they should have. Do you know why there weren't any people playing BW at Flash's level 10 years ago? The game wasn't at a stage that could support that level of play. Neither is SC2. By a long shot. It'll be fun to watch it get there though (hopefully with SC2's really mature replay system and massive playerbase speeding things along), and I'll really enjoy watching skilled BW players filter into the scene along the way. However, it's going to take a lot more than this article for me to believe that BW prestige alone is all it'd take to completely flip the GSL and the SC2 scene on its ass. | ||
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ondema
United Kingdom21 Posts
Kudos intrigue, well done. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50790 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:31 eoLithic wrote: holy fuck? Why can`t people just see everything in a relative perspective? Why all these assumptions and speculations? Starcraft 2 is a game...which is being played..competetivly. Some people win, some loose. Sit back and enjoy the game maybe? lol if you think starcraft is just a game,you're not going to last long here. | ||
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dormer
United States1314 Posts
I don't know. I feel like if you wanted to educate the new SC2 crowd about BW, or if you wanted to talk about the difference in training and mechanics, or if you wanted to speculate on what will happen when more Korean BW pros switch over, then you could have done a much better job of trying to encourage discussion instead of being so demeaning. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
Notice the post count of those defending SC2. It doesn't say much indeed, but at least show that there is a chance they never followed BW as intrigue did, yet they are arguing over it as if they knew shit about BW.... Yeah. | ||
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Sumsi
Germany593 Posts
 When watching the GSL I feel just seeing a Starcraft game without an audience. | ||
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theMiNUS
United States333 Posts
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thegreatpiata
Canada54 Posts
SC2 is going to change a lot in the next 3 years with 2 expansions coming out. People are still learning the game so of course it's not going to resemble BW in it's twilight. I enjoy watching SC2 matches and so do some of my friends (who don't even play SC2). If you like BW competition so much than watch that and quit crying. | ||
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DoXa
Switzerland1448 Posts
As long as the big companies sponsor BW, there's no way the top BW players will switch to SC2 in any time. This is in no case a bad thing, BW is an amazing game as SC2 is too. So we can watch whatever we like to watch. There's no need to discuss whether BW or SC2 is better. Both are good in it's unique way and we should all appreciate this! | ||
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hauton
Hong Kong743 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:34 Musou wrote: Do you have selective vision or do you just ignore the explanations that have been given a million times? Boxer, Nada, and July were all basically retirees in BW before switching over to SC2. Stop using them as examples. MVP was basically the best of the players that switched over from BW, and he was bad by BW standards, yet in SC2 is pretty much considered one of the top, if not the top of the terrans. Selective vision? Try selective logic. You're talking to a person who thinks a pro BW player could just go and play pro SC2 in his free time without being in complete violation of his contract. | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:35 ondema wrote: This is the definition of a good article- one which provides a legitimate discussion point to a community. Whether the article is true or not is to be seen, but more credit should be given to this phenomenal piece of writing. Kudos intrigue, well done. What is the discussion point you gleamed from the article? | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
I've seen a pro-level protoss try to Forge FE and accidentally block his own expansion. Twice (san in GSL 2, anypro a few weeks back). Honestly, though, I find that thrilling, because it SC2 can be played so sloppily and still be good, imagine what it'll be like when skill gets involved! Boxer made SC1. By having a team that, y'know, practices, he might make SC2 as well. | ||
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eoLithic
Norway221 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:36 BLinD-RawR wrote: if you think starcraft is just a game,you're not going to last long here. Is Starcraft not a video game? Fotball is stated by some, to me more than s sport, it`s still a game, a sport. Starcraft is the a huge e-sport, still a game. What a wierd comment btw xD "you won`t last long here, lol" hillarious stuff right there. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:36 theMiNUS wrote: i have no opinion on the skills of BW pros vs SC2 pros... but it is my humble opinion that BW is just a terrible spectator eSport, a horrible thing to watch... i don't think BW has the same capacity to attract "new fans" as does SC2, just because of the terrible graphics... If growing eSports is our goal, then the answer lies in SC2. What has that got to do with the OP? | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:35 biskit wrote: Thank you for your answer. I think people are angry because this article is biased, argumentative and a veiled BW > SC2 post. And it gets featured. So he's not allowed to think that BW > SC2 on a website that is based around starcraft? I'm confused. You do know that Final Edits are made up of ONE persons opinions since.. always? They're supposed to be biased. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:33 TheButtonmen wrote: The majority of the people seeing this article on your front page have never followed BW. Why should we care about some Koreans who play a game we've never watched, what right does he have to tell us that the entire SC2 scene is a farce? You keep saying that as if it has anything to do with the OP. I never followed Quake either but if someone from Quake would come and argue with valid statistics and sounds logic that Quake pros could come an wipe the floor with CS players (a game I used to follow religiously) I still wouldn't get all up in arms about it. If anything I'd be interested and read / watch more about Quake. It appears to me there is a group of SC2 players who have a deep hatred or BW without ever having played or followed it. And that is something that is just beyond me. | ||
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