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On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out.
You need to stop telling people what the article is about. Also, this thread quickly became a debate about sc vs sc2 and whether a background in bw was relevant to performance, which it clearly is.
Also, what Hot_Bid said.
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Let's not forget the amazing run he had, right into Code S, only losing by 1 game against the best Protoss and arguably the best SC2 player so far.
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
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Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument.
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On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument.
who plays tennis on sand?
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On January 10 2012 22:39 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument. who plays tennis on sand?
I suppose he means clay
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On January 10 2012 22:39 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument. who plays tennis on sand?
Maybe he meant sand to be this ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_court
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On January 10 2012 22:42 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:39 o[twist] wrote:On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument. who plays tennis on sand? I suppose he means clay
but federer is the second-best player in the world on clay and has been for years
the better analogy might be something like paddle tennis, for which see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaël_Monfils#2006
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On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Show nested quote +Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc.
What Hot_Bid claims is obvious, just bunch of SC2-only generation of players bitching in here atm.
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The problem now with people saying forGG shouldnt count is that the same people have been comming here/linking here every time that he have won something. Its quite stupid actually.
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On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument.
This makes sense (and he doesn't mean clay, he means sand as a new surface, like SC2 as a new game). I think many people forget that SC2 is not BW, it is mechanically less hard, the battles do not behave the same way, terrain advantage works differently, etc... There were enough thread complaining about this that it should be obvious to everyone.
It seems to me than saying that any "serious" BW pro would dominate SC2 scene" seems as sensible as saying that WC3 legends like Moon & Grubby would dominate SC2. We saw what happened in the later case : their are surely international level, but not as dominant as they were during their WC3 career.
I suspect (and hope) the same will happen for BW pro transfer to SC2 : they will be up there and some (and maybe not the one you might bet on) will take their rightfull spot as SC2 stars, but they won't push everybody to B-Teamer rank, because the games are so much different to play, with different skill requirement.
In any case this will be very interesting to watch how all of this will unfold.
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On January 10 2012 22:44 deadmau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. What Hot_Bid claims is obvious, just bunch of SC2-only generation of players bitching in here atm.
Yeah.
I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed.
So they'll do good... except they might not. That's not a prediction at all.
However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best.
Now there's a prediction. Except it only applies to the top 2 players in the world. The OP cast a much wider net though,
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch.
300 players that can be instantly better at SC2 than the current players. I guess fOrGG was 301?
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On January 10 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:44 deadmau wrote:On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. What Hot_Bid claims is obvious, just bunch of SC2-only generation of players bitching in here atm. Yeah. Show nested quote +I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. So they'll do good... except they might not. That's not a prediction at all. Now there's a prediction. Except it only applies to the top 2 players in the world. The OP cast a much wider net though, Show nested quote +I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. 300 players that can be instantly better at SC2 than the current players. I guess fOrGG was 301?
Potential is the keyword
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On January 10 2012 22:44 deadmau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. What Hot_Bid claims is obvious, just bunch of SC2-only generation of players bitching in here atm.
Yeah and I agree with Hot_Bid, obviously Flash and Jeadong will do well. But that's not the point the writer is making. The writing is basically saying that there are 100+ better players than MVP, Nestea, MC:
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch.
And because of this SC2 is a farce. This is what I disagree with and what ForGG is also showing. He is good, but the first matches he played in code S he lost. And this is after training a lot more then ' a few months'.
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On January 10 2012 22:51 Kerm wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument. This makes sense (and he doesn't mean clay, he means sand as a new surface, like SC2 as a new game). I think many people forget that SC2 is not BW, it is mechanically less hard, the battles do not behave the same way, terrain advantage works differently, etc... There were enough thread complaining about this that it should be obvious to everyone. It seems to me than saying that any "serious" BW pro would dominate SC2 scene" seems as sensible as saying that WC3 legends like Moon & Grubby would dominate SC2. We saw what happened in the later case : their are surely international level, but not as dominant as they were during their WC3 career. I suspect (and hope) the same will happen for BW pro transfer to SC2 : they will be up there and some (and maybe not the one you might bet on) will take their rightfull spot as SC2 stars, but they won't push everybody to B-Teamer rank, because the games are so much different to play, with different skill requirement. In any case this will be very interesting to watch how all of this will unfold.
Await a shitstorm young padawan of a lot oh "herps" and some "derps" even "durrrs" you will recieve soon!
Btw. I love it how both "sides" try to relativize their arugment when the "other side" won a BOX 
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On January 10 2012 22:54 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:51 Kerm wrote:On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument. This makes sense (and he doesn't mean clay, he means sand as a new surface, like SC2 as a new game). I think many people forget that SC2 is not BW, it is mechanically less hard, the battles do not behave the same way, terrain advantage works differently, etc... There were enough thread complaining about this that it should be obvious to everyone. It seems to me than saying that any "serious" BW pro would dominate SC2 scene" seems as sensible as saying that WC3 legends like Moon & Grubby would dominate SC2. We saw what happened in the later case : their are surely international level, but not as dominant as they were during their WC3 career. I suspect (and hope) the same will happen for BW pro transfer to SC2 : they will be up there and some (and maybe not the one you might bet on) will take their rightfull spot as SC2 stars, but they won't push everybody to B-Teamer rank, because the games are so much different to play, with different skill requirement. In any case this will be very interesting to watch how all of this will unfold. Await a shitstorm young padawan of a lot oh "herps" and some "derps" even "durrrs" you will recieve soon! Btw. I love it how both "sides" try to relativize their arugment when the "other side" won a BOX
If i'm a padawan then I guess you are the jedi master ? 
Anyway my point is just that the games (SC2 & BW) are very very different, it has been discussed to death I think, and that skills won't transfer as automatically as most might think because of that.
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On January 10 2012 22:53 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On January 10 2012 22:44 deadmau wrote:On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. What Hot_Bid claims is obvious, just bunch of SC2-only generation of players bitching in here atm. Yeah. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. So they'll do good... except they might not. That's not a prediction at all. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Now there's a prediction. Except it only applies to the top 2 players in the world. The OP cast a much wider net though, I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. 300 players that can be instantly better at SC2 than the current players. I guess fOrGG was 301? Potential is the keyword
And is a huge copout in my opinion because it doesn't predict anything. Any BW pro that comes to SC2 and fails and you can say 'well he didn't live up to his potential'. Any BW pro that comes and dominates you can point to and say 'see I was right!'. Hypothesis can't be disproven.
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On January 10 2012 22:59 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:53 Linwelin wrote:On January 10 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On January 10 2012 22:44 deadmau wrote:On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. What Hot_Bid claims is obvious, just bunch of SC2-only generation of players bitching in here atm. Yeah. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. So they'll do good... except they might not. That's not a prediction at all. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Now there's a prediction. Except it only applies to the top 2 players in the world. The OP cast a much wider net though, I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. 300 players that can be instantly better at SC2 than the current players. I guess fOrGG was 301? Potential is the keyword And is a huge copout in my opinion because it doesn't predict anything. Any BW pro that comes to SC2 and fails and you can say 'well he didn't live up to his potential'. Any BW pro that comes and dominates you can point to and say 'see I was right!'. Hypothesis can't be disproven.
Yeah, in the same way you can say there are 100s of young kids out there with the potential to be as good as Flash or Jaedong, and because of that the current competition is a farce!
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On January 10 2012 22:53 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On January 10 2012 22:44 deadmau wrote:On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote:
Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. What Hot_Bid claims is obvious, just bunch of SC2-only generation of players bitching in here atm. Yeah. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. So they'll do good... except they might not. That's not a prediction at all. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Now there's a prediction. Except it only applies to the top 2 players in the world. The OP cast a much wider net though, I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. 300 players that can be instantly better at SC2 than the current players. I guess fOrGG was 301? Potential is the keyword
i have the potential to be the best in the world woooooo scary prediction. if you need to caveat everything u say then you arent predicting much of anything
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you guys realize this was written when everyone was terrible at sc2 right?
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On January 10 2012 22:39 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:37 Milvus wrote:
Its like taking Federer's grass court win rate in order to say that he would crush everyone on sand if he dedicated all of his time to it. And then saying that beause of that reason you are not able to enjoy watching other sand court pros play.
The more competitive and specialised a game becomes, the less valuable is the skill transfer argument. who plays tennis on sand?
In Germany we call the clay court "Sandplatz", so yeah he means clay.
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EPT
