EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 217
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KiNGxXx
7928 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
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Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:14 o[twist] wrote: so then we can't really extend the argument to every person that's not practicing like a pro, the way you claimed, right? well depending on how you look at it. We can either extend it to every person with a certain chance, or we can extend it to a huge amount of specific persons. As we don't know those persons, the scientific approach would be the first one. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:07 Turbo.Tactics wrote: Tough statement on a site that was and still is the center of BW fans. You sir are a troll, or need to elaborate. Oh its just the slight troll but getting into the mood of last 20 pages. Hence the <wink>. My comment was pretty much in favor of BW and pointing ridiculity of last comments. | ||
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nokz88
Brazil1253 Posts
-Tasteless- ROFL | ||
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amostan
Singapore48 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote: Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented. I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly. People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong. T_T You sir are so clever and true. Cheers | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:18 Big J wrote: well depending on how you look at it. We can either extend it to every person with a certain chance, or we can extend it to a huge amount of specific persons. As we don't know those persons, the scientific approach would be the first one. honestly i have no idea what you're talking about but i expect if you watched bw you would see a lot of reason to expect that flash, jaedong etc. might not need as much practice as most people | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:11 Kyuki wrote: Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented. I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly. People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong. T_T Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
fin outclasses polt "sc2 players are garbage, elephant elephant elephant forgg next code s champ" fin loses a series "HAHAHAHAA SC1 IS NOTHING SC2 JUST AS GOOD FUCK YOU ALL BW PROS" think how much ridicule you would get if you said since flash lost a series once he is slumping/garbage/bad now, and yet in discussions like this its ok to base your opinion of a player on a single series | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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Azelja
Japan762 Posts
Brood War players are great at what they do, SC2 players are great at what they do. | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote: Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. admittedly the 300 figure seems pretty extreme to me. even though they were bad, there weren't even 300 players better than sair and iron at bw when they were playing | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:22 turdburgler wrote: everyone on both sides of the argument seem to LOVE basing their entire opinion on 1 game. fin outclasses polt "sc2 players are garbage, elephant elephant elephant forgg next code s champ" fin loses a series "HAHAHAHAA SC1 IS NOTHING SC2 JUST AS GOOD FUCK YOU ALL BW PROS" Could you find me those posts that bash the SC1 scene after Fin lost? because all I read was: "lol, he is not dominating. OP is wrong who said SC2 competition is garbage" | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36401 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:20 Longshank wrote: Actually no, the point of this article, as stated by the OP himself, is that a player like ForGG and some hundred players worse than him would dominate the SC2 scene within months of switching. Well after 11 months of practice, ForGG proved that this was inaccurate. The point was never that the great BW pros would do great and probably dominate, claiming that now is a cowardly cop out. Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when. The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
I kinda didnt also like the fact Forgg was picked as the center(hes way to cool to die for our sins  ), Hyun was much better object for that(he was more active progamer) but the long time since someone relevant from BW switched so i can understand why hot_bid was impatient  Forgg is different case of progamer, and he WAS a different case in bw even when he won MSL. He was the best at one point in time, and maybe, just maybe he will catch the same wind again and rise (well maybe not to S-class anymore). Forgg still have chances to take down GSL, well i cant say i didnt want him to royal road GSL, of course i was pumped but i knew he was not prepared enough for that yet. He even said so in interview he has many things to learn and he proved that. edit: before hot_bid post | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:24 Big J wrote: Could you find me those posts that bash the SC1 scene after Fin lost? because all I read was: "lol, he is not dominating. OP is wrong who said SC2 competition is garbage" On January 10 2012 21:50 -TesteR- wrote: Um, losing an scv to a probe and forgetting conc shells. Amazing bw history really shining! He didn't play amazing, as this article would lead people to believe. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:25 Hot_Bid wrote: Actually that's exactly what I said in the article if you read my part. I believe that the top S class guys like Leta, Sea, Fantasy, Stork etc will be among the best SC2 players if they switch, but it is not guaranteed. However, if any of Jaedong or Flash do, they WILL be the best. Relephant quote: ForGG, despite all the fun hype we've been giving him, is not even on the level of Sea Kal Calm etc. We need more puns in this thread. I feel like it would make the discussion happier for both sides. I can't trunk HotBids one though. | ||
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SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
The problem is all the fanboys saying "OMG these RECENT bw players are so amazing, they could literally switch to SC2 this week and beat Nestea and MC with one hand tied behind their back" and stupid comments like that. Clearly, ForGG has had about 8 months of SC2 experience, and still can't beat the top of the top. So we need to stop this stupid argument. Theres no doubt ForGG will be a great player someday, maybe even win a Code S.. but the whole "The BW players are coming and going to own everyone in their first try" is just so wrong. And now that ForGG failed, you guys say "ForGG never was that good in the first place" - just stop. Even Flash or Jaedong can't come on SC2 and within one month win the Code S.. its just not possible for ANYONE. It takes time to learn a whole new game. Recent BW players aren't magically going to beat MC and Nestea and MVP who've been playing SC2 since beta, despite being "B-Teamers." | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:28 MCDayC wrote: We need more puns in this thread. I feel like it would make the discussion happier for both sides. I can't trunk HotBids one though. you're right, the discussion has been far too heavy | ||
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