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On January 10 2012 21:57 Naphal wrote:
forgg established himself in the sc2 proscene, which is an impressive feat in and itself, but he did not prove sc2 competition to be a farce, i think both sides of the argument can be content with what they got.
forgg does not represent the best bw players tho. those guys are still active in bw and we probably wont ever know. the author probably knows this therefore wrote the article knowing it's completely safe against disproof
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On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it.
did read it
it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word)
surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg?
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On January 10 2012 22:02 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? yup, because I think if they switched today and played against any Code S player tomorrow, they would just get destroyed. SC2 needs a ton of specific SC2-practice and as long as they don't have that, they will lose. If they "are better" because they will be better after practicing SC2 hardcore... well then we can extend this argument to every person that is not practicing like a pro on the entire world and the Whale in the room would be: "John Anyone is the best Brood War player on this planet... Sadly he doesn't play it."
so you think i'd be as hyped as flash if i decided to become an sc2 pro? and you think if i practiced as much as him we would end up at the same strength?
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On January 10 2012 21:57 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 21:52 Subversive wrote:
Lol the top of sc2 is still dominated by former broodwar pros. People who smirk and want to see forgg fail are just delusional. It's not even a competition between the games as it's the same group of players in both.
Not to mention he's in a group that could be the quarter finals or the semis.
You should really read the article, it's not about about what game the players came from.
Yeah I've read it. I was commenting on people's replies. Thanks though.
Edit: Just saw you said the same thing to o[twist]. You should stop doing that, its fucking condescending.
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On January 10 2012 22:02 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it. did read it it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word) surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg?
Well to be fair every time that forGG won this thread was bumped by TL staff.
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On January 10 2012 22:04 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:02 o[twist] wrote:On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it. did read it it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word) surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg? Well to be fair every time that forGG won this thread was bumped by TL staff.
ah, i've just seen it
that was silly and seems almost designed for people to overreact to him losing
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On January 10 2012 22:04 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:02 o[twist] wrote:On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it. did read it it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word) surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg? Well to be fair every time that forGG won this thread was bumped by TL staff.
Hyun for a decider then ? ^^
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On January 10 2012 22:02 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it. did read it it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word) surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg?
It seemed to work fine that way as long as ForGG was winning.
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On January 10 2012 22:02 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 21:57 Naphal wrote:
forgg established himself in the sc2 proscene, which is an impressive feat in and itself, but he did not prove sc2 competition to be a farce, i think both sides of the argument can be content with what they got. forgg does not represent the best bw players tho. those guys are still active in bw and we probably wont ever know. the author probably knows this therefore wrote the article knowing it's completely safe against disproof
He is still around best BW pro to have switched though. According to this article he should be winning championships left and right, but he's been playing for like 8 months and is now in Code A. ForGG is good, but not as good as this article is making it out to be.
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On January 10 2012 22:02 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it. did read it it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word) surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg?
Two series, to be completely correct. And yet...
Two series was enough to *start* drawing conclusions. Why? Because it confirmed the pre-existing beliefs of the community.
To be fair, I did not expect fOrGG to lose GSL this season. And yet he places last in his group, necessitating a re-evaluation of his status within GSL.
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On January 10 2012 22:02 bgx wrote:Oh thank god people realized bw players has no skill. I believe that also so i preffer those players to continue playing bw  At least those "flash plox come sc2" will stop. <wink>
Tough statement on a site that was and still is the center of BW fans. You sir are a troll, or need to elaborate.
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On January 10 2012 22:06 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:04 SenorChang wrote:On January 10 2012 22:02 o[twist] wrote:On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it. did read it it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word) surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg? Well to be fair every time that forGG won this thread was bumped by TL staff. Hyun for a decider then ? ^^
Oh, personally I don't care lol. If the games are good then the people who are playing are irrelephant.
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United States33367 Posts
and by TL Staff I mean Hot_bid moved it from the TLFE forum and into the Starcraft II general forum so everyone could see it then bumped it
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On January 10 2012 22:07 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:06 bgx wrote:On January 10 2012 22:04 SenorChang wrote:On January 10 2012 22:02 o[twist] wrote:On January 10 2012 21:59 Longshank wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? Yes they were bw pros, and targeted(MC) in the article if you would have bothered to read it. did read it it didn't seem like the thesis of the article was that they shouldn't be winning things... it seemed like the thesis was that sc2 was a "farce" because they were (i don't think that's remotely the right word) surely people aren't coming to conclusions based on one series from forgg? Well to be fair every time that forGG won this thread was bumped by TL staff. Hyun for a decider then ? ^^ Oh, personally I don't care lol. If the games are good then the people who are playing are irrelephant.
ha! I have a similar attitude. I think recent BW pro vs long time SC2er matchups are very dramatic. It's like the Korean vs Foriegner games, they always bring more tension.
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Did nestea started winning gsl tournaments when he switched to sc2 ? If yes ? He is must be some bonjwa , If no , Stop hating forgg for not winning the gsl in his first run .
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On December 26 2011 20:44 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 03:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 26 2011 03:36 lorkac wrote:
It's very aggravating to hear the bw condescension. That's great. If you hate something, try not to become that something. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
Baldurs gate.... Gj!
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Ugh, so tired of all the people with practically no BW experience coming here with ForGG as a argument as to why this thread is trash... Also one series... When he left the BW scene he was at best mediocre, sadly. After his MSL victory in 08, he was short of 50% winrate, and in the end he was closer to 40% winrate and didnt make anything happen in the individual leagues either. Sure, still one of the "best" at the time of the switch, but still not great by any means. Timing attacks was his game, and alot of his games was very all-in oriented.
I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a great player and I'm sure he'll do great in code A and climb on no doubt, but using him as a argument is stupid. He's just one of many players that will eventually switch and those that are at the highest level of broodwar right now Will smash this game undoubtly.
People still forget that almost all of the top players in Code S are former BW players.. The point is that when the BETTER BW players switch over, it wont take that long before there will be a major swing in the top besides a few players that are really strong.
T_T
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On January 10 2012 22:03 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:02 Big J wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? yup, because I think if they switched today and played against any Code S player tomorrow, they would just get destroyed. SC2 needs a ton of specific SC2-practice and as long as they don't have that, they will lose. If they "are better" because they will be better after practicing SC2 hardcore... well then we can extend this argument to every person that is not practicing like a pro on the entire world and the Whale in the room would be: "John Anyone is the best Brood War player on this planet... Sadly he doesn't play it." so you think i'd be as hyped as flash if i decided to become an sc2 pro? and you think if i practiced as much as him we would end up at the same strength?
Probably hundreds or thousands (or more, seeing how few people actually play games with a competetive mindset) of people in this world have the potential to be better than Flash. but even if it is hundredthousand people, the odds of you being one of them is 100.000 : 7.000.000.000 = 1 : 70.000... well, if we only focus on the people in the "right age" (16-24 statistically... but as young as competetive gaming is I don't think this is quite accurate, but let's just go with this) it should still be around 1:10.000. So I feel kind of safe to tell you not to try to become the next Flash, as most likely you will just throw away a ton of time.
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On January 10 2012 22:13 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:03 o[twist] wrote:On January 10 2012 22:02 Big J wrote:On January 10 2012 21:55 o[twist] wrote:
aren't the other people in forgg and leenock's group also former bw pros? sair and iron, right? is there really anybody who thinks that flash and bisu, or even like reality and snow, for example, wouldn't be hyped to be better than them if they switched today? yup, because I think if they switched today and played against any Code S player tomorrow, they would just get destroyed. SC2 needs a ton of specific SC2-practice and as long as they don't have that, they will lose. If they "are better" because they will be better after practicing SC2 hardcore... well then we can extend this argument to every person that is not practicing like a pro on the entire world and the Whale in the room would be: "John Anyone is the best Brood War player on this planet... Sadly he doesn't play it." so you think i'd be as hyped as flash if i decided to become an sc2 pro? and you think if i practiced as much as him we would end up at the same strength? Probably hundreds or thousands (or more, seeing how few people actually play games with a competetive mindset) of people in this world have the potential to be better than Flash. but even if it is hundredthousand people, the odds of you being one of them is 100.000 : 7.000.000.000 = 1 : 70.000... well, if we only focus on the people in the "right age" (16-24 statistically... but as young as competetive gaming is I don't think this is quite accurate, but let's just go with this) it should still be around 1:10.000. So I feel kind of safe to tell you not to try to become the next Flash, as most likely you will just throw away a ton of time.
so then we can't really extend the argument to every person that's not practicing like a pro, the way you claimed, right?
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EPT
