EPTIn LoTV, he's gone though 5 GSL seasons, an SSL, 2 IEMs, WeSG's events, KeSPA Cup, and Blizzcon group stages without losing in any of them. I don't think any other player in korea has done that. Consistancy only rivalled by maybe Stats
The TY Fan Club - Page 68
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
In LoTV, he's gone though 5 GSL seasons, an SSL, 2 IEMs, WeSG's events, KeSPA Cup, and Blizzcon group stages without losing in any of them. I don't think any other player in korea has done that. Consistancy only rivalled by maybe Stats | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16090 Posts
On September 04 2017 01:31 Sakat wrote: The SL format counts for much in the ranking of tournaments. That's the big Taeja discussion the community has been having for a while With TaeJa the discussion was more that in the tournaments he won the level of competition was just lower. I don't think a tournament with the exact same level of competition counts less because of the format. On one hand one can of course argue that it's more impressive to defeat opponents who had time to prepare specificially for your playstyle but on the other hand you could also argue that it's more impressive to adapt on the fly to different playstyles and beating top tier opponents without having the time to research their playstyle. I don't think you can objectively claim that one thing is more impressive than the other, it's all a matter of perspective. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 04 2017 04:24 Charoisaur wrote: With TaeJa the discussion was more that in the tournaments he won the level of competition was just lower. I don't think a tournament with the exact same level of competition counts less because of the format. On one hand one can of course argue that it's more impressive to defeat opponents who had time to prepare specificially for your playstyle but on the other hand you could also argue that it's more impressive to adapt on the fly to different playstyles and beating top tier opponents without having the time to research their playstyle. I don't think you can objectively claim that one thing is more impressive than the other, it's all a matter of perspective. Yeah i think that is fair enough. Though personally i would value it more simply because everybody has a reasonable amount of time to prepare for it, to get to the best possible level for each opponent (both strategy and form wise). Also like others have said, the fact that you need to be strong over a long period of time adds value imo. | ||
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
I would definitely say it is worth more than SSL. | ||
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BobFossil1
60 Posts
TY is a great reactive player, however some series it seems he comes with certain builds in mind that he expects to work. When they do work, he looks unstoppable, and when they don't he looks very mortal. For example, in the Protoss group in the round of 16, he used liberator armies and made everyone else look like duds. Stats isn't a dud of course, so this is no mean feat. Against Byun in SSL earlier in the year and herO at Super Tournament 1 and in SSL he seemed too set on a certain idea of how they would play and fell to early game pressure or just got outplayed in the early game build order. I would argue that when TY is more reactive (and willing to scout) and comes with several builds in mind, mixes in cheese etc he looks a completely different and more effective player than when he tries to re-create those perfectly executed strategies. A few days ago it looked like he had some very specific expectations of what would work against Dark. Dark, on the other hand, seemed to be able to respond to what TY was doing and pull him apart. I think TY made a couple of incorrect assumptions: 1. Was that Dark would play macro games each time. This worked fine in games 1 and 2, but was terrible for game 3. TY was too transparent in his own passive approach. Players such as Dark will not macro every game, whereas TY will. It means that the time they don't they are a very good chance at getting a cheap win (game 3) and can be as greedy as they like in the other games (games 1 and 2). I think it is too obvious to his opponents that if TY had his way he would try to outplay them in a long game every time, and therefore he is easier to read. Sometimes a different TY turns up who does play this more fluid and unpredictable style, but not on Saturday. Perhaps he was just hanging out for the smaller maps, but I'm not so sure. 2. That he would simply win with a crisp tank timing. Even if this build is in the current meta there are plenty of other good builds mixing in widow mines, or even mech etc. Dark is not someone that usually loses to timing attacks like this. I would have liked to see him change up his strategy in the second game (even if it almost worked) rather than continue on the same line when it didn't work in game one. He lacked the right tech/army composition after his attack was shut down. He didn't really have much counter to the ultralisks and mass lings. I would have liked to see more ghosts, ranged liberators if time permitted, perhaps some widow mines to shut down some of the lings and to make a higher concentration of marauders more useful. 3. It seemed as though TY underestimated Dark's counter-attacking ability. He did not have his planetaries up in time in some cases, and did not spread his army very well on many occasions. It's no good to expand so aggressively if you are not going to defend the bases/release the attacking pressure on your opponent. Dark did a great job with his army movement around TY, who looked in game 1 and after his tank push was broken in game 2, as though he couldn't keep up. Of course no matter how good or bad his preparation is, I think TY is the most amazing player to watch, and if it wasn't Dark then he would probably have rolled over any other Zerg with what he did. He has the potential to win a Starleague, but we will have to wait until next year  And I think that a Starleague is probably more significant than Blizzcon despite how prestigious a weekend tournament it is. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On September 04 2017 21:01 BobFossil1 wrote: 1. Was that Dark would play macro games each time I think the assumption was that even if Dark were to all-in, he can hold as long as he sees it coming (I do believe that's how he plays every match). Even with his greedy opener, the attack could have probably been held if he repaired his bunkers etc., I definitely thought he would win game 3 when his bunkers finished. On September 04 2017 21:01 BobFossil1 wrote: 2. That he would simply win with a crisp tank timing. I doubt he's foolish enough to expect to simply win with the tank timings, his economic expansion behind the tank pushes was too clean and practiced for that. I assume from his practice sessions, he simply arrived at the conclusion that these tank pushes are the best way to win and that's why he started with those. But I think he overestimated the strength of those pushes against a player as good as Dark on maps that size. He should have made sure they play on either Abyssal or Newkirk early on, such pushes are way more dangerous on those maps. On September 04 2017 21:01 BobFossil1 wrote: 3. [...] and did not spread his army very well on many occasions. [...] Dark did a great job with his army movement around TY, who looked in game 1 and after his tank push was broken in game 2, as though he couldn't keep up. In the 2nd game he was on 96 workers and splitting what little army he had would have put him at risk of getting completely overrun wherever Dark committed. In the first game TY was totally dead after vipers stopped the first tank push so it makes sense that he would look unable to keep up. In the next he should have probably won outright by committing a bit more to his push and less to his economy, but at least after the push got deflected he was still in an okay position. Additionally, his liberator/bio doom drop had the most unfortunate timing. If it gets there sooner Dark has no corruptors even on the way and loses all his tech. If it goes a minute later TY has all the units at home and saves 2 of his bases. TY said at the start of the day that he felt his condition was good, but it didn't seem like it in the games. Going up to 96 (like what even?) SCVs, not repairing the bunkers in game 3, and to me, most obviously, not evacuating the doom drop in game 2 until after the corruptors killed every single liberator. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
At least Blizzcon is played on maps he knows I guess so if he tries proxy rax there it won't get spotted instantly.  | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
I mean Scarlett has very good historical TvZ but srsly? edit: he will most likely get spot 5 at blizzcon, puts him in a group with Stats, Special, and Snute. He should be able to beat any of them but then again he should be able to beat Scarlett | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On September 18 2017 01:21 Fango wrote: How does he lose 0-3 to Scarlett I mean Scarlett has very good historical TvZ but srsly? His proxy got scouted in game 1 so he played from behind and lost to mutas with his mech push, in game 2 he lost a close 20+ minute mech game (which tbh I think on maps you don't know bio is always better than mech) and in game 3 he lost to a proxy hatch. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 18 2017 01:25 Elentos wrote: His proxy got scouted in game 1 so he played from behind and lost to mutas with his mech push, in game 2 he lost a close 20+ minute mech game (which tbh I think on maps you don't know bio is always better than mech) and in game 3 he lost to a proxy hatch. Wow I really hope the korean terrans dont try to mech it at blizzcon and all lose to the EU zergs. I honestly don't* think any of them would lose a bio game to them edit: what maps will blizzcon be played on, should be the current ones right? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 18 2017 01:28 Fango wrote: Wow I really hope the korean terrans dont try to mech it at blizzcon and all lose to the EU zergs. I honestly don't* think any of them would lose a bio game to them edit: what maps will blizzcon be played on, should be the current ones right? If Inno mechs and loses to an EU Zerg after beating Dark in a Bo7.....I don't even. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 18 2017 02:07 pvsnp wrote: If Inno mechs and loses to an EU Zerg after beating Dark in a Bo7.....I don't even. Less Inno's, more TY, Gumi, Maru/aLive's if either get in | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 18 2017 02:19 Fango wrote: Less Inno's, more TY, Gumi, Maru/aLive's if either get in I don't know what is up with TY recently, it seems like Dark just broke his TvZ soul or something. Losing to Ragnarok and Scarlett? As for the other Terrans, Gumi's mech vs Zerg has always been solid, aLive hasn't ever meched that I can remember, and Maru has surprisingly good mech iirc. I have confidence in Inno, though I am nervous because he tends to choke in Blizzcon Ro8. | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
On September 18 2017 02:28 pvsnp wrote: I don't know what is up with TY recently, it seems like Dark just broke his TvZ soul or something. Losing to Ragnarok and Scarlett? As for the other Terrans, Gumi's mech vs Zerg has always been solid, aLive hasn't ever meched that I can remember, and Maru has surprisingly good mech iirc. I have confidence in Inno, though I am nervous because he tends to choke in Blizzcon Ro8. That's not actually a thing. Both times he was defeated by probably the only player that could have beaten him (TaeJa in 2014 and Life in 2015). And add to that the long pause against Taeja... Just bad luck really. And he really improved his mental game this year compared to two years ago | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
And Inno just won season 3 of GSL so he's confirmed to choke at blizzcon. Plus in a bo5 scenario, Dark, TY, Gumiho, sOs, herO, and Stats all have a chance to beat him. He's better than any of them, but every match of his recent GSL run was a close one | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Also let's not lose our shit about TY's TvZ just yet. It's only 2 matches. Sure, losing to RagnaroK looks bad on paper, but any number of things could have happened in those games. And the match against Scarlett was played at night on the same day, cross server on maps TY's never really looked at before (patently obvious from the fact that TY rallied the SCVs for his proxy in such a way that Scarlett saw them pretty much immediately with her overlord). Whatever actual issues TY has with his TvZ atm, he now has well over a month to fix them, and since he's guaranteed to play a Zerg first at Blizzcon, I expect him to do just that. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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