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On July 17 2012 01:51 tragedy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:00 Azarkon wrote:
No one is perfect, but Stephano's flaws are easily fixed. Having better zergling scouting patterns on certain maps to sniff out cannon rushes and building a macro hatch when you're floating tons of minerals is not 'omg no one in the world is able to do this while doing everything else Stephano is doing.' Stephano doesn't have the APM to click a drone and build a hatch? He doesn't have the APM to scout out the mineral corners of his third with one extra zergling?
No one said he was in a slump. I raised the hypothetical that, were he to lose in the Ro8 of NASL and then drop out in MLG Summer, do we then call that a slump? You're taking arguments out of context and twisting them to your needs. Whoosh, completely missed my point. You are a lost cause, best of luck in life, you will need it.
You didn't have a 'point'. You had strawmans. "He's in a slump" is a strawman you invented against people saying that they're worried that losing in NASL and MLG is going to send him into a slump, not that he was in a slump already. Him having 'worse play' than before is a personal opinion of mine based on what he said and demonstrated in the last two tournaments. It turned out to be false, but it has nothing to do with what you were responding to. Nobody needs to be told that people aren't perfect.
For the record, though, I'm very successful in life, tyvm  That's why I'm able to post on TL regularly, watch eSports, and still make six figures and live comfortably in a nice suburban neighborhood at a great location.
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@tragedy :
nice try but useless, troll always miss the point when your answer shut them down. (as you say; lost cause, just ignore him)
@The_Darkness :
I agree on what you say about the ZvT matchup.
When i say before that even if stephano does'nt train / practice he take time to think about the matchup, it's just what I was thinking. The max roach build was, in my opinion, a part of this reasoning. He limit the option for the adversary, provoking what he need to win.
In the final and semi, his timing were amazing, if it was online some adversary will say he cheat.
french Kamelot TVshow joke :
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 17 2012 01:31 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 00:28 niuage wrote:
I totally agree that it would be a waste of time and money for Stephano to try to win the GSL like Naniwa is trying to do. That being said, I would LOVE to see him try at least once.
Just seing Stephano in a GSL booth, for one season, would be awesome. Well, I guess he will be there for the final of GSTL, imagine how awesome it would be if he just arrived for the final as a TSL-Mill member and just do a freaking all kill? ^^
Symbol/Polt/Stephano 0.0? I feel sorry for the team that has to play that heh
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On July 17 2012 02:06 Qxz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 23:58 AIOL! wrote:
Did you ever play zerg ? When you are doing the 12 min max roachs Stephano Style at some points making 5 overlords is just the most efficient way to do the build, this is part of the strategy. When you have 80 pop and you know in 2 min you will have 170 you have to make 5,6 or 7 overlords at the same time if you have the larvas. To know that you just have to do this build, you can't respect the timings if you don't do that. Actually Stephano has recently pointed out himself how he often gets supply capped and that zerg is too easy since he can win with such mistakes. I don't have the reference but I'm sure some here will know what I'm talking about.
I'm pretty sure Stephano uses his interviews to mindgame other players lol.
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About the GSTL, Stephano will only play if TSL win against Slayers-EG in semi-finals so nothing sure here.
And if he won't play the GSL, i think it's because of the WCS in Korea that will delay GSL for 3-4 weeks and begin early september or something like that.
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Getting supply blocked with Zerg isn't game killing in the same way that it is for Terran and Protoss.
Getting supply blocked with Terran and Protoss -> you miss a production cycle. For Zerg, queens continue spewing larvae while you're supply blocked, and there are benefits to holding onto your larvae instead of committing to drones, units, etc. Yeah, there are downsides: had those been drones, and provided that you were safe, getting supply blocked results in less resources mined. You're also less safe to attacks that are made the moment you become supply blocked, but very few attacks line up that nicely. But the downsides aren't of the same magnitude for Zerg provided that you make a round of additional overlords when it happens.
Macro-wise, not hitting injects and not having enough larvae is a bigger issue by far.
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:p
Futur math problem in french school :
Last september ,
ESWC : Stephano defeated Mana 3-1 to win the tournament, claiming the $26,000 prize
IPL3 : Stephano defeated Lucky 4-0 to win the tournament, claiming the $30,000 prize
Last weekend ,
NASL3 : Stephano defeated Alicia 4-0 to win the tournament, claiming the $30,000 prize
3-1 to win 26 k
4-0 to win 30 k
Calculate stephano's ratio of focus in relation with the prize money.
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I think he has enough to buy new computer and stream again
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gg stephano and Esport !!!! we all love u dude ! You are like some anime hero !!!
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Wow. This thread's become less of a fanclub thread and more of a Azakron vs Stephano's fans thread.
Anyways, congrats for NASL. I hope we'll see you owning more Koreans in the near future.
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On July 17 2012 04:07 Spidinko wrote:
Wow. This thread's become less of a fanclub thread and more of a Azakron vs Stephano's fanboys thread.
Anyways, congrats for NASL. I hope we'll see you owning more Koreans in the near future.
Fixed it for you. My opinion looking at the progression of the fanclub is that sooner or later there was going to be a conflict between the fans who think he can do no wrong and the fans who think he needs to sit down and correct his weaknesses. I just happened to be the one who triggered it.
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Enjoy the show as long at it last.
Someday he will stop playing for studies, then we will regret the old time that's right know.
Be happy !
adopt Stephano way of life, don't care, and take the money !
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On July 17 2012 04:19 Azarkon wrote:
Fixed it for you. My opinion looking at the progression of the fanclub is that sooner or later there was going to be a conflict between the fans who don't freak out if he does wrong and are still supportive and the fans who think he needs to sit down and correct his weaknesses.
Fixed it for you.
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Zerg = imba
Stephano = imba
Stephano Zerg: 4:0 Kori in Final!
ez
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On July 17 2012 04:27 Kuni wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 04:19 Azarkon wrote:
Fixed it for you. My opinion looking at the progression of the fanclub is that sooner or later there was going to be a conflict between the fans who don't freak out if he does wrong and are still supportive and the fans who think he needs to sit down and correct his weaknesses. Fixed it for you.
Nobody stopped supporting Stephano in this thread. The conflict was over how you evaluate his current form. Whether Stephano goes into a slump, and whether he loses, nobody here thinks that he's lost the talent to be one of the greatest players in SC 2.
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The way stephano approaches the game is fantastic, he just looks like he is having a fun time.
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A slump has far more impact than what Stephano has shown us recently (see IdrA for finding out what slump really means). You can easily lose ZvZs, you can lose to Sase despit it being his weakest matchup. He dominated his group at that MLG, so again .. no point in trying to take that as an argument.
He lost to Mana at DH after 2:0ing Nerchio and killing some Korean before that placing 3rd @ Dreamhack Summer.
Shortly after, he dominated his French WCS and despite the fact that there weren't many known players, he didn't drop a single map.
And then he got to the NASL Finals, facing Hero in the first round. If he had lost vs. Hero, would you have claimed he was in a slump? Hero might be Protoss, but he's still one of the best and it's no shame to lose to him.
Finding flaws is kind of easy. Stephano practises way more than he says in his interviews and some parts of his play are weaker than others, but at the moment those flaws seem to be not that important and the results from the last few months support that.
Look at IdrA ... that's a slump, from hero to zero.
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On July 16 2012 16:44 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 16:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On July 16 2012 16:03 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 15:47 Benjamin99 wrote:On July 16 2012 15:32 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 15:15 Benjamin99 wrote:On July 16 2012 14:41 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 12:36 NevaN wrote:
@azarkon- Then who do you suggest us to portray the player your opinion is seeing?? You can't demand out from him to produce perfect games man for other players train so much harder than him yet commits more mistake than Stephano. and i assure you, 200% in your game your not that perfect too. Don't litter the thread of your opinion that he is declining for you yourself can simply look at the results.Anyway as someone has said haters gonna hate. Sorry, but it's dumb as hell to say that I was hating on him. People have short memories. Before this NASL started, nobody who had a clue thought that Stephano was going to stomp HerO and MC. This is the information we had available: * Stephano was frustrated with his ZvZ and was losing to players way below his level * He was coming off of two 0-2 losses against Protoss players a tier below the level of HerO and MC PvZ * Stephano had a losing record vs. MC * Stephano had a losing record vs. HerO * MC was preparing his PvZ to face DRG * DRG had said that MC was the best PvZ in the world * HerO was coming off of a 3-1 win against DRG * Stephano said that he hasn't practiced in two weeks, and that his fans 'should not expect much from him' There was not a single rational supporting argument, going into NASL, for why Stephano was going to stomp HerO and MC besides blind faith. He had, at best, 50-50 records against both players in his former prime, and HerO was starting to be the next big thing when it came to PvZ. Everybody knew this and everybody accepted this. Hell, people started bitching about how unfair it was that Stephano had to play in the hardest bracket in NASL while HuK and Ret had easy paths. Turn the fanclub back 10-20 pages and you're going to see tons of people saying that they're worried about Stephano getting far in NASL. I merely made the additional argument that, in the case that he loses to HerO in the Ro8, he won't have enough time to change his play and form before MLG Summer Arena, which is stacked harder than NASL, and that another loss there = he's starting to fall off the map for favorites to win a tournament, which for Stephano is a slump. Obviously, this is no longer a problem for Stephano because he just won NASL, and that win is going to last him a while given who his opponents were. It's going to take another 5-6 months before he needs another big win to keep his best NA / EU player tag around. How he performs in MLG Summer is now irrelevant because in the case he bombs out in the group stages, all people need to do is wave at NASL and say that, well, everybody loses. But saying that people knew Stephano was going to do that well in NASL before yesterday is ridiculous. All the information we had said that he was going to lose, but he managed to pull a miracle. Azarkon thats wrong Stephano did not had a losing record vs Hero they meet 2 times at lans. First time at blizzard cup and now at NASL. They met twice in tournaments. He won 1-0 vs HerO in Blizzard Cup. He lost 1-2 to HerO in EG Masters. He lost 0-5 to HerO in practice and has said that he fears HerO's style of PvZ. That to me tips the scale in HerO's favor, and HerO's win vs. DRG tips it further.
Also the last 2 times MC and Stephano have meet its been 1-1 so hardly a losing record.
Yes, but that's the last two times they met. His overall record vs. MC was negative. I think it's positive now, but I have to check.
And the only reason why he lost to Mana and Sase was becuase of metagame. Stephano had been traveling allmost a month and simply didnt had time to keep up. We saw the exact same build from Hero in game 3 and Stephano just crushed it. Matter infact you wrong allmost in every account. The last 2 months has been some of the best we have ever seen from Stephano. I simply dont understand where you comming from
He hasn't stopped traveling. Two and a half weeks ago he was in Sweden. Last week he was in Paris. After Paris, he went to Canada. Just a week ago he was saying that his lodging situation was very unstable. I don't understand why you think 'Stephano lost because he was traveling and didn't have time to keep up,' given that his wins and losses both happened during periods when he's traveling a lot.
plz for the love of god tell me how he is slumping with that insane record the last 2months??
I didn't say he is slumping with that record. I said that in the case that he loses to HerO, and then loses again in MLG Summer Arena, then that portends a slump. He didn't lose in NASL, so he's not in a slump. But one of the things that has portended slumps in the past for world class players is when they begin to lose badly to NA / EU players. Stephano started doing that - he lost to SaSe, he lost to MaNa, he lost to Cytoplasm, he lost to Ziktomini, and he lost to Slivko all within the span of a month. He had great wins in the last two months, too, but the losses were recent, while the wins were further away. Actually it says more about how competetive the EU scene has become. Funny thing is Stephano record is actually better vs the koreans then it is vs the EU players.I just think you nitpicking Azarkon when i look at the last 2 month I see one of the most impressive win ratio and tournament results I ever seen from Stephano Funny thing is, I'm starting to agree with that for tournaments outside of Korea. DH was won by an EU player, HSC was won by an EU player, and NASL was won by an EU player. MLG Summer is still going to be hard, because it's stacked with top Koreans, but the gap is narrowing. The EU scene hasn't had successes of this magnitude for over a year. But with regard to your second comment, I think we're looking at different time periods. It's in the recent month and a half that I started feeling worried about Stephano's play. It started in GD Studio Arena when he lost to Bomber, and carried over to MLG Spring Championship when he lost to SaSe, and then DH when he lost against MaNa, and then to his rather terrible online performances in SC2SL and TSL 4 Quals. I know I had nothing but praise during Red Bull LAN, where he lost narrowly to MC and stomped Squirtle and Parting. That was a high mark of his career, exceeded only by this win in NASL. How are you saying he looked weak at all at MLG? Dropping at the near end of the tournament vs SaSe, a foreigner that doesn't even reside in EU, but KR? Really? That's like saying MVP is slumping if he gets 4th place in a tournament. Why? Because SaSe's PvZ was his weakest match up - and he had a terrible record vs. Stephano before going into that match. SaSe has improved a lot in recent months, but still, his play in those games was not exceptional - he executed a basic, well known two base all-in, and Stephano didn't lose to them twice, he lost to them four times in two separate tournaments, back to back. SaSe alone wasn't, however, worrying. SaSe + Mana - who was 1-9 vs. Stephano in the last five months - using the same build became worrying when you start thinking about the level of SaSe and Mana vs. the level of HerO and MC. These used to be walkover opponents for Stephano.
Still highly irrelevant when SaSe has been in Korea. He lost near the final rounds of MLG. How you can discount that is beyond me. It's not like he got knocked out at the beginning - he went through the championship bracket, and finally got knocked out by allins. It's like you expect such a calibre player, after being allined multiple times, to never fall to them. Once again, I think it's absolutely ridiculous you're using such a ridiculously small sample size.
And really, MaNa? He's considered one of THE top Protoss players in EU.
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On July 17 2012 04:48 Kuni wrote:
Look at IdrA ... that's a slump, from hero to zero.
I wouldn't say Idra is in a slump, he is actually just not very good anymore. The entire base of players have surpassed his skill level and that's is why he is finding it so hard. It's not that Idra is playing bad, he is just bad.
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On July 17 2012 04:57 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 16:44 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 16:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On July 16 2012 16:03 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 15:47 Benjamin99 wrote:On July 16 2012 15:32 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 15:15 Benjamin99 wrote:On July 16 2012 14:41 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 12:36 NevaN wrote:
@azarkon- Then who do you suggest us to portray the player your opinion is seeing?? You can't demand out from him to produce perfect games man for other players train so much harder than him yet commits more mistake than Stephano. and i assure you, 200% in your game your not that perfect too. Don't litter the thread of your opinion that he is declining for you yourself can simply look at the results.Anyway as someone has said haters gonna hate. Sorry, but it's dumb as hell to say that I was hating on him. People have short memories. Before this NASL started, nobody who had a clue thought that Stephano was going to stomp HerO and MC. This is the information we had available: * Stephano was frustrated with his ZvZ and was losing to players way below his level * He was coming off of two 0-2 losses against Protoss players a tier below the level of HerO and MC PvZ * Stephano had a losing record vs. MC * Stephano had a losing record vs. HerO * MC was preparing his PvZ to face DRG * DRG had said that MC was the best PvZ in the world * HerO was coming off of a 3-1 win against DRG * Stephano said that he hasn't practiced in two weeks, and that his fans 'should not expect much from him' There was not a single rational supporting argument, going into NASL, for why Stephano was going to stomp HerO and MC besides blind faith. He had, at best, 50-50 records against both players in his former prime, and HerO was starting to be the next big thing when it came to PvZ. Everybody knew this and everybody accepted this. Hell, people started bitching about how unfair it was that Stephano had to play in the hardest bracket in NASL while HuK and Ret had easy paths. Turn the fanclub back 10-20 pages and you're going to see tons of people saying that they're worried about Stephano getting far in NASL. I merely made the additional argument that, in the case that he loses to HerO in the Ro8, he won't have enough time to change his play and form before MLG Summer Arena, which is stacked harder than NASL, and that another loss there = he's starting to fall off the map for favorites to win a tournament, which for Stephano is a slump. Obviously, this is no longer a problem for Stephano because he just won NASL, and that win is going to last him a while given who his opponents were. It's going to take another 5-6 months before he needs another big win to keep his best NA / EU player tag around. How he performs in MLG Summer is now irrelevant because in the case he bombs out in the group stages, all people need to do is wave at NASL and say that, well, everybody loses. But saying that people knew Stephano was going to do that well in NASL before yesterday is ridiculous. All the information we had said that he was going to lose, but he managed to pull a miracle. Azarkon thats wrong Stephano did not had a losing record vs Hero they meet 2 times at lans. First time at blizzard cup and now at NASL. They met twice in tournaments. He won 1-0 vs HerO in Blizzard Cup. He lost 1-2 to HerO in EG Masters. He lost 0-5 to HerO in practice and has said that he fears HerO's style of PvZ. That to me tips the scale in HerO's favor, and HerO's win vs. DRG tips it further.
Also the last 2 times MC and Stephano have meet its been 1-1 so hardly a losing record.
Yes, but that's the last two times they met. His overall record vs. MC was negative. I think it's positive now, but I have to check.
And the only reason why he lost to Mana and Sase was becuase of metagame. Stephano had been traveling allmost a month and simply didnt had time to keep up. We saw the exact same build from Hero in game 3 and Stephano just crushed it. Matter infact you wrong allmost in every account. The last 2 months has been some of the best we have ever seen from Stephano. I simply dont understand where you comming from
He hasn't stopped traveling. Two and a half weeks ago he was in Sweden. Last week he was in Paris. After Paris, he went to Canada. Just a week ago he was saying that his lodging situation was very unstable. I don't understand why you think 'Stephano lost because he was traveling and didn't have time to keep up,' given that his wins and losses both happened during periods when he's traveling a lot.
plz for the love of god tell me how he is slumping with that insane record the last 2months??
I didn't say he is slumping with that record. I said that in the case that he loses to HerO, and then loses again in MLG Summer Arena, then that portends a slump. He didn't lose in NASL, so he's not in a slump. But one of the things that has portended slumps in the past for world class players is when they begin to lose badly to NA / EU players. Stephano started doing that - he lost to SaSe, he lost to MaNa, he lost to Cytoplasm, he lost to Ziktomini, and he lost to Slivko all within the span of a month. He had great wins in the last two months, too, but the losses were recent, while the wins were further away. Actually it says more about how competetive the EU scene has become. Funny thing is Stephano record is actually better vs the koreans then it is vs the EU players.I just think you nitpicking Azarkon when i look at the last 2 month I see one of the most impressive win ratio and tournament results I ever seen from Stephano Funny thing is, I'm starting to agree with that for tournaments outside of Korea. DH was won by an EU player, HSC was won by an EU player, and NASL was won by an EU player. MLG Summer is still going to be hard, because it's stacked with top Koreans, but the gap is narrowing. The EU scene hasn't had successes of this magnitude for over a year. But with regard to your second comment, I think we're looking at different time periods. It's in the recent month and a half that I started feeling worried about Stephano's play. It started in GD Studio Arena when he lost to Bomber, and carried over to MLG Spring Championship when he lost to SaSe, and then DH when he lost against MaNa, and then to his rather terrible online performances in SC2SL and TSL 4 Quals. I know I had nothing but praise during Red Bull LAN, where he lost narrowly to MC and stomped Squirtle and Parting. That was a high mark of his career, exceeded only by this win in NASL. How are you saying he looked weak at all at MLG? Dropping at the near end of the tournament vs SaSe, a foreigner that doesn't even reside in EU, but KR? Really? That's like saying MVP is slumping if he gets 4th place in a tournament. Why? Because SaSe's PvZ was his weakest match up - and he had a terrible record vs. Stephano before going into that match. SaSe has improved a lot in recent months, but still, his play in those games was not exceptional - he executed a basic, well known two base all-in, and Stephano didn't lose to them twice, he lost to them four times in two separate tournaments, back to back. SaSe alone wasn't, however, worrying. SaSe + Mana - who was 1-9 vs. Stephano in the last five months - using the same build became worrying when you start thinking about the level of SaSe and Mana vs. the level of HerO and MC. These used to be walkover opponents for Stephano. Still highly irrelevant when SaSe has been in Korea. He lost near the final rounds of MLG. How you can discount that is beyond me. It's not like he got knocked out at the beginning - he went through the championship bracket, and finally got knocked out by allins. It's like you expect such a calibre player, after being allined multiple times, to never fall to them. Once again, I think it's absolutely ridiculous you're using such a ridiculously small sample size. And really, MaNa? He's considered one of THE top Protoss players in EU.
To be fair, the criticism of Stephano's loss to MaNa is sort of justified - MaNa's PvZ has been considered his achilles' heel for years and only recently seems to have greatly improved.
See also: MaNa's record against Nerchio.
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EPT
