EPTThe Stephano Fan Club - Page 419
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JohnMatrix
France1359 Posts
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AIOL!
France962 Posts
On July 16 2012 19:09 Fus wrote: I said imagine how good Stephano would be with perfect macro. He sure makes flaws, everyone does. Making overlord in bunches of 5+, floating minerals while defending attacks into produceing more defensive units, not putting guys in gas the instant they complete, floating more than 25 energy on queens. Stephano is not a perfect player he still has much room for improvement. Did you ever play zerg ? When you are doing the 12 min max roachs Stephano Style at some points making 5 overlords is just the most efficient way to do the build, this is part of the strategy. When you have 80 pop and you know in 2 min you will have 170 you have to make 5,6 or 7 overlords at the same time if you have the larvas. To know that you just have to do this build, you can't respect the timings if you don't do that. I'm not saying he has a perfect macro but i think some negative comments are due to a wrong analysis of the game. During this competition i didn't notice flagrant macro errors  I even thought he improved on that point. What we can point is that he should make more spines more quickly when he transitions into BL. Sometimes he isn't safe and relies on luck being greedy and not making enough spines. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On July 16 2012 18:15 tragedy wrote: Not everyone was spewing out random shit posts about his mechanics tho. And not everyone kept making shit posts about how bad mechanicly he played after he wrecked Hero an MC. Just shut up man, you are an embarrassment to humanity. Also you are the only monkey that is still shit talking and making negative posts after stephano won the tournament. You say you were worried about his play declining prior. He placed so high in basically every tournament he entered. You are being one of the tools that yell "slump" after every lost game. I wish there were no people like you anywhere near esports. There are tons of people who agree with me on the flaws in his mechanics, and a lot of them have posted in this thread. The timing wasn't great for me to criticize him, but guys ie you kept baiting after he started winning. In retrospect, I should have just ignored the obvious baits. The bottomline about his mechanics is this: getting supply blocked in the middle of the build order and making 5-6 overlords is 'okay' provided that the opponent never exploits that timing, but floating tons of resources and not being able to remax because you don't have enough larvae is just a mistake. Getting cannon rushed and in-base proxy DT'd because you didn't check standard cannon and pylon positions on Shakuras, Antiga, and Bel'Shir is also a mechanical mistake, but for whatever cause every Protoss who cannon rushed him this time completely failed their follow-ups. He was fortunate in that. | ||
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Rick Deckard
90 Posts
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zedrOne
France471 Posts
lol GSL games are boring? Nope, or maybe you just don't like sc2. I love those type of constructive and insightful comment. Just say you disagree, or tell why you love so much GSL game ? To encourage you into exchanging and discussion I will tell you more about GSL : Some GSL game are just amazing, but most of them are just boring to me, I can't enjoy watching every up and down match with another korean terran, playing the same as all other korean terran, (change the race as you want) Beside the player who play it who remember DRG loose in march Ro32 to TheStC and Teaja ? (you know, DRG, the best player in the world :p ) Or that Jjakji, in the same group got to up and down too. (Jjakji, you know, GSL winner ? hope of terran ...) I still remember some of kiwikaki's game(vs stephano, recall action), or some of Catz or Dragon troll on ladder game, mechanically (macrowise), they weren't the best game, but they are enjoyable to watch. I read more than once the comment about "gsl, with preparation between matches, you can get a metagame in a series a game ...Etc" In some sport, for the same reason people will say "player one stole the game from player two" and will conclude this is BS, but that's not my point, if you can see / understand that about a GSL series (ie a BO3), it's mostly because of the commentary. I'm not a tastosis fan, but they are very good at their job. I start to think this is some "elite bias", just the same as the public of "pay TV" think of himself as an elite audience because they pay, but still get advertisement like any other channel, the main difference is that they get milked twice. To go further about the "caster" part, I regret that NASL caster dont really use the resource of the full season, to (like DjWheat use to say) tell a story. like the fact that Alicia 2-0 ret in group play, or the player who get a lost in the season by not playing a game (MC and Stephano) and so on ... | ||
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niuage
United States175 Posts
Just seing Stephano in a GSL booth, for one season, would be awesome. | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
On July 17 2012 00:18 zedrOne wrote: It seams like not everybody read all the post, understandable, i'm bad in english, it may be painfull to read. I love those type of constructive and insightful comment. Just say you disagree, or tell why you love so much GSL game ? To encourage you into exchanging and discussion will tell you more about GSL : Some GSL game were just amazing. but most of them are just boring to me. If you enjoy every up and down match with another korean terran, playing the same as all other korean terran, (change the race as you want) Sometime, there is a great game. Beside the player who play it who remember DRG loose in march Ro32 to TheStC and Teaja ? (you know, DRG, the best player in the world :p ) Or that Jjakji, in the same group got to up and down too. (Jjakji, you know, GSL winner ? hope of terran ...) I still remember some of kiwikaki's game, or some of Catz or Dragon troll on ladder game, mechanically (macrowise), they werent the best game, but they where enjoyable to watch. I read more than once the comment about "gsl, with preparation between matches, you can get a metagame in a series a game ...Etc" In some sport, for the same reason people will say "player one stole the game from player two", but that's not my point, If you can see / understand that about a GSL series, it's mostly because of the commentary. I'm not a tastosis fan, but they are good at their job. I start to think this is some "elite bias", just the same as the public of "pay TV" think of himself as an elite audience because they pay, but still get advertisement like any other channel, the main difference is that they get milked twice. To go further about the "caster" part, I regret that NASL caster dont really use the resource of the full season, to (like DjWheat use to say) tell a story. like the fact that Alicia 2-0 ret in group play, or the player who get a lost in the season by not playing a game (MC and Stephano) and so on ... Wow, you should really prevent yourself from writing these wall of texts, you have absolutely no point. If you want to tell us you like Dragon troll games more than high-level it's definitely your right, but if you want to discuss wether the GSL is the tournament that produces the best games or not, your entire post is a waste of time (and is also unreadable because of your terrible english. Mine isn't great either but you definitely beat me here). Not all koreans play the same, unlike what you're stating, that would be the foreigners. And that's precisely why GSL is amazing. When you watch foreigners play, they just keep doing the same standard stuff over and over and it's boring as hell, whereas in GSL the diversity of play is really huge. I guess you just didn't watch it enough to know that, so plz prevent yourself from writing these nonsense walls of text. | ||
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zedrOne
France471 Posts
There are tons of people who agree with me on the flaws in his mechanics, and a lot of them have posted in this thread. You count yourself how many time ? It's obvious that you think you are important, but, i'm curious. Stephano got praised by Jaedong, Polt, Idra, and almost every adversary he ever play... + Show Spoiler + (I maybe just need to wrote, praised by jaedong, it say everything) But you, with you seemingly limitless knowledge want to coach him ? I agree that is macro is maybe not as good as it was when he play more game, but maybe he understood before the other than macro is not the "divine thing you need to master to win". It's not SC1, where mechanics and micro are much more important. Decision making make you win / loose game, if your macro is good enough.. I think stephano macro is good enough right know, it will be better when he start to play more again. Like Idra say, Stephano can't teach why he is so good, because you can't teach decisions making and game sense. macro come with training, practicing. + Show Spoiler + See how in less than 10 line i can summarize and conclude your useless argue. + Show Spoiler + et pour SolidMustard en francais : c'est marrant que ce que tu retiens de mon post, c'est que j'ai apprécié certaines parties en ladder plus qu'une serie en GSL ?, p-e que tu n'as pas compris mon post, possible vu le carnage en anglais, mais le sujet de mon post n'était justement pas de dire que j'aime les parties "troll" de Dragon, c'était un point de vue perso sur les parties GSL que j'ai regardé, et franchement la diversité du jeu coréen, j'attend toujours de la voir après quoi... 6 saisons de GSL oui cela évolue en fonction des patchs, mais les trucs vraiments créatifs / originaux en GSL je les cherche toujours ! | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On July 17 2012 00:33 zedrOne wrote: allez... one last for arkazon, because I have time today. You count yourself how many time ? It's obvious that you think you are important, but, i'm curious. Stephano got praised by Jaedong, Polt, Idra, and almost every adversary he ever play... + Show Spoiler + (I maybe just need to wrote, praised by jaedong, it say everything) But you, with you seemingly limitless knowledge want to coach him ? I agree that is macro is maybe not as good as it was when he play more game, but maybe he understood before the other than macro is not the "divine thing you need to master to win". It's not SC1, where mechanics and micro where much more important. Decision making make you win / loose game, if your macro is good enough.. I think stephano macro is good enough right know, it will be better when he start to play more again. Like Idra say, Stephano can't teach why he is so good, because you can't teach decisions making and game sense. macro come with training, practicing. + Show Spoiler + See how in less than 10 line i can summarize and conclude your useless argue. + Show Spoiler + et pour SolidMustard en francais : c'est marrant que ce que tu retiens de mon post, c'est que j'ai apprécié certaines parties en ladder plus qu'une serie en GSL ?, p-e que tu n'as pas compris mon post, possible vu le carnage en anglais, mais le sujet de mon post n'était justement pas de dire que j'aime les parties "troll" de Dragon, c'était un point de vue perso sur les parties GSL que j'ai regardé, et franchement la diversité du jeu coréen, j'attend toujours de la voir après quoi... 6 saisons de GSL oui cela évolue en fonction des patchs, mais les trucs vraiments créatifs / originaux en GSL je les cherche toujours ! People praise him for his great engagements, map awareness - when not being cannon rushed - and decision making, which are the best in the world. Saying there are flaws in his mechanics =/= his mechanics aren't great, but the flaws have lost him games in the past. They're not irrelevant, though this time they were enough. | ||
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Karalius
Lithuania271 Posts
"I said imagine how good Stephano would be with perfect macro." Imagine how good IdrA would be with perfect game sense. Imagine how good X would be with perfect everything. That is not how the world works. Not how games work. If someone is doing 2 things out of 100 very well, he wont win against someone who is doing 90 things out of 100 very well. And when Stephano is doing 95/100 things very well and winning against everyone. Whining about the last 5 things he might be missing is pointless. Since no one on the planet has the whole 100/100 skillset. Some koreans/players might be at 95 too, and they might have some 1 out of 100 edge/thing stephano doesnt. That doesnt mean much. If he loses a game because someone had that 1 thing that stephano didn't and got lucky enough to win that doesn't mean stephano is in a slump. I hope I made myself clear, a mess of a post. But the point stands. Stephano is a great player at his prime. Sure he has things to improve, everyone does. But the monkeys that keep inventing "slumps" or "his mechanics are worse" really need to shut the hell up. It's not fanboyism that drives people(and me) to defend this. Its simple logic and understanding of competitive play. Something you will never have.(I have a lot of experience competing in very high level competitions of a few games). So please, drop the slump arguments, drop the "omg his macro was 0.45% worse than 2 weeks ago" bs and just enjoy the show. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On July 17 2012 00:53 tragedy wrote: Imagine how good IdrA would be with perfect game sense. Imagine how good X would be with perfect everything. That is not how the world works. Not how games work. If someone is doing 2 things out of 100 very well, he wont win against someone who is doing 90 things out of 100 very well. And when Stephano is doing 95/100 things very well and winning against everyone. Whining about the last 5 things he might be missing is pointless. Since no one on the planet has the whole 100/100 skillset. Some koreans/players might be at 95 too, and they might have some 1 out of 100 edge/thing stephano doesnt. That doesnt mean much. If he loses a game because someone had that 1 thing that stephano didn't and got lucky enough to win that doesn't mean stephano is in a slump. I hope I made myself clear, a mess of a post. But the point stands. Stephano is a great player at his prime. Sure he has things to improve, everyone does. But the monkeys that keep inventing "slumps" or "his mechanics are worse" really need to shut the hell up. It's not fanboyism that drives people(and me) to defend this. Its simple logic and understanding of competitive play. Something you will never have.(I have a lot of experience competing in very high level competitions of a few games). So please, drop the slump arguments, drop the "omg his macro was 0.45% worse than 2 weeks ago" bs and just enjoy the show. No one is perfect, but Stephano's flaws are easily fixed. Having better zergling scouting patterns on certain maps to sniff out cannon rushes and building a macro hatch when you're floating tons of minerals is not 'omg no one in the world is able to do this while doing everything else Stephano is doing.' Stephano doesn't have the APM to click a drone and build a hatch? He doesn't have the APM to scout out the mineral corners of his third with one extra zergling? No one said he was in a slump. I raised the hypothetical that, were he to lose in the Ro8 of NASL and then drop out in MLG Summer, do we then call that a slump? You're taking arguments out of context and twisting them to your needs. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
Plz update Stephano's acheivements for 2012 to include winning NASL s3 grand finals ty | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On July 17 2012 00:28 niuage wrote: I totally agree that it would be a waste of time and money for Stephano to try to win the GSL like Naniwa is trying to do. That being said, I would LOVE to see him try at least once. Just seing Stephano in a GSL booth, for one season, would be awesome. Well, I guess he will be there for the final of GSTL, imagine how awesome it would be if he just arrived for the final as a TSL-Mill member and just do a freaking all kill? ^^ | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On July 17 2012 01:31 Vanadiel wrote: Well, I guess he will be there for the final of GSTL, imagine how awesome it would be if he just arrived for the final as a TSL-Mill member and just do a freaking all kill? ^^ LOL that would be the best epic moment of his life! | ||
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Dandy_Moustachu
France422 Posts
On July 17 2012 00:28 niuage wrote: I totally agree that it would be a waste of time and money for Stephano to try to win the GSL like Naniwa is trying to do. That being said, I would LOVE to see him try at least once. Just seing Stephano in a GSL booth, for one season, would be awesome. I don't even get why foreigner choose to go in Korea for a long period of time Sc2earning tell the story : Stephano's earnings in 2012 : 82,175 Naniwa's earnings in 2012 : 7,720 (and he was twice in the ro8) | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
As far as I can tell, Stephano seems to be playing the match up where Protoss is playing for a third base as follows: 1. During the 10-13 minute period, assuming it's not a two base all in, Stephano will pressure the Protoss and try to break the Protoss and win. If he can't win, he'll focus on killing off all of the sentries, which forces Protoss to build more sentries to be safe and delays Protoss tech. By killing the sentries the Protoss can't afford both Colossus and high templar, and Protoss's mothership is also delayed. 2. After and during the 11-13 minute time frame, once he senses he's not going to be able to break the Protoss he switches to melee and carapace upgrades, which indicates he's preparing for his ultimate late game comp, which includes highly upgraded lings and broodlings. For as long as I can remember Stephano's starting to upgrade the melee attack has been a clear indicator he's preparing for a late game transition. 3. So far 1 and 2 are consistent with what I recall from Stephano's play and don't represent major changes, but then he appears to have moved away from sinking his excess minerals in tons of spines (though he still will build some), as he was wont to do about two months ago on nearly all maps including some longer games and is instead building a large bank (4K+) to combat the 15-17 minute protoss max pushout that aims to hit Zerg before the greater spire finishes. He also stockpiles the maximum possible amount of larvae per hatchery. He had at least 3 or more +100 ling (near) remaxes against Alicia and MC after taking out the Colossi and depleting the sentries of their energy. He was putting himself in essentially unlosable positions after his ling (near) remax since he leaves Protoss with nothing that can effectively counter mass ling and protoss can't remax nearly as quickly as Zerg can when you bank larvae like Stephano is He's played this way recently against Squirtle and MC at redbull LAN and I think MLG championships, although I don't recall all of those games off the top of my head. Item 3. above appears to be where he's really changed his game. I also noted that he sacrificed, in a couple games, overlords, which I don't recall ever seeing him do but could be wrong. I also loved his muta transition against MC when he went sentry immortal into a third base. Muta is very scary against that composition. I feel like DRG does that a fair amount though so can't credit Stephano with that counter, but still it's nice to see him mix it up like he did. As he has before he also mixed in some roach drops, but I don't find roach drops to be the universal boon that many seem to think they are after Symbol won a couple games with them. As drops become more common, Protoss will start treating Zerg like a terran opponent and prepare for the drops. High level protoss (squirtle, MC, parting, etc.) have gotten so good at dealing with drops against T that most high level Terrans have greatly limited their drops. Also with good target firing Protoss can simply snipe the overlords if you try to drop your army on top of Protoss (see game 1 of the finals of Hero - DRG on Ohana at the recent IPL imports LAN). I'm looking forward to seeing how he further develops the matchup once he's in Korea. | ||
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Karalius
Lithuania271 Posts
On July 17 2012 01:00 Azarkon wrote: No one is perfect, but Stephano's flaws are easily fixed. Having better zergling scouting patterns on certain maps to sniff out cannon rushes and building a macro hatch when you're floating tons of minerals is not 'omg no one in the world is able to do this while doing everything else Stephano is doing.' Stephano doesn't have the APM to click a drone and build a hatch? He doesn't have the APM to scout out the mineral corners of his third with one extra zergling? No one said he was in a slump. I raised the hypothetical that, were he to lose in the Ro8 of NASL and then drop out in MLG Summer, do we then call that a slump? You're taking arguments out of context and twisting them to your needs. Whoosh, completely missed my point. You are a lost cause, best of luck in life, you will need it. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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bouboule
American Samoa62 Posts
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Qxz
Canada189 Posts
On July 16 2012 23:58 AIOL! wrote: Actually Stephano has recently pointed out himself how he often gets supply capped and that zerg is too easy since he can win with such mistakes. I don't have the reference but I'm sure some here will know what I'm talking about.Did you ever play zerg ? When you are doing the 12 min max roachs Stephano Style at some points making 5 overlords is just the most efficient way to do the build, this is part of the strategy. When you have 80 pop and you know in 2 min you will have 170 you have to make 5,6 or 7 overlords at the same time if you have the larvas. To know that you just have to do this build, you can't respect the timings if you don't do that. | ||
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