On July 17 2012 04:19 Azarkon wrote: Fixed it for you. My opinion looking at the progression of the fanclub is that sooner or later there was going to be a conflict between the fans who don't freak out if he does wrong and are still supportive and the fans who think he needs to sit down and correct his weaknesses.
Fixed it for you.
Nobody stopped supporting Stephano in this thread. The conflict was over how you evaluate his current form. Whether Stephano goes into a slump, and whether he loses, nobody here thinks that he's lost the talent to be one of the greatest players in SC 2.
You need to learn what a fanboy is. Nobody here is saying Stephano doesn't have flaws to work on. What we are saying is that your prediction that he was slumping was so totally wrong, please forgive us if we don't trust any of your other arguments. I feel most of the things you are saying are pointless nitpicks, or just completely wrong. If these fixes are so easy to you, please show me your NASL championship. Highlighting postives =/= fanboyism. Constructive criticisim is fine but you're simply taking it too far and no one wants to listen anymore.
Read my reply to Kuni.
You didn't respond to half of what I just said. And I find it funny that you are now trying to revive your old argument. No, Stephano is not slumping. No, that was not the preditcion you made. You originally posted some recent game results of Stephano and made the claim that it appeared to be the start of a slump. You never said "the slump could start after NASL." You said it was already starting.
Here's my first post on this topic:
On July 12 2012 02:54 Azarkon wrote:
On July 12 2012 02:41 a3den wrote:
On July 12 2012 01:58 Khonsou wrote: Well, I hope he gets his sh*t together because he didn't look scary at all the last couple of time his games were shown.
I agree, for the first time in a long time, I feel like he's gonna get bodied at NASL & MLG Summer. Too much travel takes its toll, and I know he says he doesn't need much practice to be good, but that's too little right now.
Fortunately, Korea is around the corner so the timing isn't that bad.
Yeah, HerO is a huge challenge for him in great form, and he isn't in great form. I said that one day, the music is going to end for Stephano - is this going to be that day?
Here is my second post, where I explain what I'm talking about:
With that out of the way, I am not saying that if Stephano loses to HerO his career is over. Rather, I am musing on whether this is going to be the beginning of a slump for Stephano. His refusal to practice ZvZ - and inability to practice hard towards addressing his weaknesses - was bound to bite him, and I have been observing declines in his play from about 2-3 months prior. Presently speaking, I don't think he's ready for HerO, and failing in the first round of NASL is not going to do well for his confidence. Furthermore, with no time in between NASL finals, IEM quals, and MLG Summer Arena, he won't have an opportunity to regain his form after it.
It has all the setup of an incoming slump period, and with it the end of his reputation of being the best NA / EU player. That is what I'm talking about when I say that the music is ending - Stephano gets a pass in a lot of areas because he is the best NA / EU player. He is able to, for example, forfeit tournaments repeatedly without losing his sponsorship, and without tournament organizers banning him from their events. When he streams, he is able to get >9000 viewers. All of this is because he is the best, and that is the reputation he has to maintain for the music and the parties to continue.
Where do you get from that to 'he's already in a slump?' Everything I said was contingent on him losing to HerO and then not improving on that loss in MLG. The entire argument was a hypothetical.
Ok, I'm sorry, I didn't remember all of those posts. But I would like to point out that you still haven't addressed half of what I said. And now that you say that "The entire argument was a hypothetical," I must ask, why did you even bother posting it? What was the purpose? Besides the fact that it didn't even come close to happening, I don't see what you hoped to accomplish by bringing it up.
Responses to your other arguments, because you asked for them:
You're nitpicking
Am I? Is his ZvZ not a weak spot? Did him losing to two base all-ins from SaSe and MaNa in MLG and DH not worry other fans? I recall differently. After those games, the bulk of people here was criticizing him for not being able to hold what he always held before, saying that his mechanics were sloppier than usual, and doom and glooming over his ZvZ. The losses cost him tens of thousands of dollars, they were important learning experiences.
Fanboyism =/= Highlighting positives
Highlighting positives is one thing, saying that people are haters / dumb for ever questioning Stephano's results in the last months quite another. Stephano took serious losses these last two months against people he is greatly favored against. Saying that those losses don't matter is fanboyism. They do matter, and Stephano learned from them.
Why bring up a hypothetical?
Why not? There was nothing to discuss but hypotheticals going into NASL, and with Stephano telling us that he 'didn't practice in two weeks' and 'don't expect much from me,' wasn't the response obvious? He was managing expectations, and so was I.
That he vastly exceeded those expectations is a cause for joy, but does not change what they were going into the tournament.
1. ZvZ is his lowest winrate. Calling it a "weakness" is nitpicking. He's still quite good in the match up. Obviously he can improve, no one said otherwise. I was mostly reffering to you other points: onoes he didn't check that one spot on the map! onoes he's supply blocked cuz the protoss went for stargate/other reasons. It's nitpicking plain and simple. Stephano is extremely good, there's no need to highlight his weakness as if we don't know what they are or Stephano doesn't know what they are. You're preaching to the choir here. 2. No one is denying Stephano took serious losses. It's actually right here in the thread if you were paying attention. The point is, most people here want to remain positive, we know what the negatives are and there is no reason to dwell on them. Just because people want to remain positive does not make them fanboys. I don't see anyone completely denying that Stephano makes mistakes sometimes. 3. My point is, you threw the "slump" card out needlessly. I can only assume you would understand the consequences of your statements in Stephano's fanclub thread. Obviously if you start talking about slumps in a fanclub thread you are going to make fans needlessly worried. And then calling those fans fanboys for remaining positive you just make the situation worse. You're basically flame-baiting people. I can't help but think you came to this thread looking for an argument. Especially looking at how you've been carrying on for the past 20+ pages. Most people don't come to this thread to do what you're doing. If you had respect for those people you would just drop this right now. You've been restating your criticism again and again and again and again, it's getting quite tiresome and verging on the point of spam. If you want to talk about Stephano's mechanics, please go to a different forum.
On July 17 2012 04:19 Azarkon wrote: Fixed it for you. My opinion looking at the progression of the fanclub is that sooner or later there was going to be a conflict between the fans who don't freak out if he does wrong and are still supportive and the fans who think he needs to sit down and correct his weaknesses.
Fixed it for you.
Nobody stopped supporting Stephano in this thread. The conflict was over how you evaluate his current form. Whether Stephano goes into a slump, and whether he loses, nobody here thinks that he's lost the talent to be one of the greatest players in SC 2.
You need to learn what a fanboy is. Nobody here is saying Stephano doesn't have flaws to work on. What we are saying is that your prediction that he was slumping was so totally wrong, please forgive us if we don't trust any of your other arguments. I feel most of the things you are saying are pointless nitpicks, or just completely wrong. If these fixes are so easy to you, please show me your NASL championship. Highlighting postives =/= fanboyism. Constructive criticisim is fine but you're simply taking it too far and no one wants to listen anymore.
Read my reply to Kuni.
You didn't respond to half of what I just said. And I find it funny that you are now trying to revive your old argument. No, Stephano is not slumping. No, that was not the preditcion you made. You originally posted some recent game results of Stephano and made the claim that it appeared to be the start of a slump. You never said "the slump could start after NASL." You said it was already starting.
Here's my first post on this topic:
On July 12 2012 02:54 Azarkon wrote:
On July 12 2012 02:41 a3den wrote:
On July 12 2012 01:58 Khonsou wrote: Well, I hope he gets his sh*t together because he didn't look scary at all the last couple of time his games were shown.
I agree, for the first time in a long time, I feel like he's gonna get bodied at NASL & MLG Summer. Too much travel takes its toll, and I know he says he doesn't need much practice to be good, but that's too little right now.
Fortunately, Korea is around the corner so the timing isn't that bad.
Yeah, HerO is a huge challenge for him in great form, and he isn't in great form. I said that one day, the music is going to end for Stephano - is this going to be that day?
Here is my second post, where I explain what I'm talking about:
With that out of the way, I am not saying that if Stephano loses to HerO his career is over. Rather, I am musing on whether this is going to be the beginning of a slump for Stephano. His refusal to practice ZvZ - and inability to practice hard towards addressing his weaknesses - was bound to bite him, and I have been observing declines in his play from about 2-3 months prior. Presently speaking, I don't think he's ready for HerO, and failing in the first round of NASL is not going to do well for his confidence. Furthermore, with no time in between NASL finals, IEM quals, and MLG Summer Arena, he won't have an opportunity to regain his form after it.
It has all the setup of an incoming slump period, and with it the end of his reputation of being the best NA / EU player. That is what I'm talking about when I say that the music is ending - Stephano gets a pass in a lot of areas because he is the best NA / EU player. He is able to, for example, forfeit tournaments repeatedly without losing his sponsorship, and without tournament organizers banning him from their events. When he streams, he is able to get >9000 viewers. All of this is because he is the best, and that is the reputation he has to maintain for the music and the parties to continue.
Where do you get from that to 'he's already in a slump?' Everything I said was contingent on him losing to HerO and then not improving on that loss in MLG. The entire argument was a hypothetical.
Ok, I'm sorry, I didn't remember all of those posts. But I would like to point out that you still haven't addressed half of what I said. And now that you say that "The entire argument was a hypothetical," I must ask, why did you even bother posting it? What was the purpose? Besides the fact that it didn't even come close to happening, I don't see what you hoped to accomplish by bringing it up.
Responses to your other arguments, because you asked for them:
You're nitpicking
Am I? Is his ZvZ not a weak spot? Did him losing to two base all-ins from SaSe and MaNa in MLG and DH not worry other fans? I recall differently. After those games, the bulk of people here was criticizing him for not being able to hold what he always held before, saying that his mechanics were sloppier than usual, and doom and glooming over his ZvZ. The losses cost him tens of thousands of dollars, they were important learning experiences.
Fanboyism =/= Highlighting positives
Highlighting positives is one thing, saying that people are haters / dumb for ever questioning Stephano's results in the last months quite another. Stephano took serious losses these last two months against people he is greatly favored against. Saying that those losses don't matter is fanboyism. They do matter, and Stephano learned from them.
Why bring up a hypothetical?
Why not? There was nothing to discuss but hypotheticals going into NASL, and with Stephano telling us that he 'didn't practice in two weeks' and 'don't expect much from me,' wasn't the response obvious? He was managing expectations, and so was I.
That he vastly exceeded those expectations is a cause for joy, but does not change what they were going into the tournament.
3. My point is, you threw the "slump" card out needlessly. I can only assume you would understand the consequences of your statements in Stephano's fanclub thread. Obviously if you start talking about slumps in a fanclub thread you are going to make fans needlessly worried. And then calling those fans fanboys for remaining positive you just make the situation worse. You're basically flame-baiting people. I can't help but think you came to this thread looking for an argument. Especially looking at how you've been carrying on for the past 20+ pages. Most people don't come to this thread to do what you're doing. If you had respect for those people you would just drop this right now. You've been restating your criticism again and again and again and again, it's getting quite tiresome and verging on the point of spam. If you want to talk about Stephano's mechanics, please go to a different forum.
Before his big win against HerO in NASL, I don't think there was a single rational fan who wasn't worried about him going into NASL. I spoke the words that other people were thinking about. Look closely and you're going to see that my first bout of negativity was in response to negativity from other posters who shared the same thoughts.
I stuck around because people started attacking me, personally, for what I said. Leaving such attacks unanswered is cowardly.
Why did this result in a temp ban? If Azarkon doesn't get a temp ban for spam posting bs, I don't understand this fan club at all.
I just think its a misclick from the moderator
He got banned for saying "in before" and "patronizing [sic]" a specific person with the "in before". I'm guessing that Azarkon whined to the moderator and is pretty savvy about whom he whines to given that he has spent the greater part of his recent life on TL forums. I'm also pretty certain he knows exactly what offenses will get you banned since I suspect he's been banned many times. Revel8 is one of the most level-headed and sensible regular commenters in this fanclub. I was actually expecting to get a temp ban, but did not. He definitely did not deserve one. It's ironic that the last person everyone wanted to leave gets temp banned while Azarkon is still here relentlessly vomiting nonsense on every page of this forum.
Nobody stopped supporting Stephano in this thread. The conflict was over how you evaluate his current form. Whether Stephano goes into a slump, and whether he loses, nobody here thinks that he's lost the talent to be one of the greatest players in SC 2.
You need to learn what a fanboy is. Nobody here is saying Stephano doesn't have flaws to work on. What we are saying is that your prediction that he was slumping was so totally wrong, please forgive us if we don't trust any of your other arguments. I feel most of the things you are saying are pointless nitpicks, or just completely wrong. If these fixes are so easy to you, please show me your NASL championship. Highlighting postives =/= fanboyism. Constructive criticisim is fine but you're simply taking it too far and no one wants to listen anymore.
Read my reply to Kuni.
You didn't respond to half of what I just said. And I find it funny that you are now trying to revive your old argument. No, Stephano is not slumping. No, that was not the preditcion you made. You originally posted some recent game results of Stephano and made the claim that it appeared to be the start of a slump. You never said "the slump could start after NASL." You said it was already starting.
Here's my first post on this topic:
On July 12 2012 02:54 Azarkon wrote:
On July 12 2012 02:41 a3den wrote:
On July 12 2012 01:58 Khonsou wrote: Well, I hope he gets his sh*t together because he didn't look scary at all the last couple of time his games were shown.
I agree, for the first time in a long time, I feel like he's gonna get bodied at NASL & MLG Summer. Too much travel takes its toll, and I know he says he doesn't need much practice to be good, but that's too little right now.
Fortunately, Korea is around the corner so the timing isn't that bad.
Yeah, HerO is a huge challenge for him in great form, and he isn't in great form. I said that one day, the music is going to end for Stephano - is this going to be that day?
Here is my second post, where I explain what I'm talking about:
With that out of the way, I am not saying that if Stephano loses to HerO his career is over. Rather, I am musing on whether this is going to be the beginning of a slump for Stephano. His refusal to practice ZvZ - and inability to practice hard towards addressing his weaknesses - was bound to bite him, and I have been observing declines in his play from about 2-3 months prior. Presently speaking, I don't think he's ready for HerO, and failing in the first round of NASL is not going to do well for his confidence. Furthermore, with no time in between NASL finals, IEM quals, and MLG Summer Arena, he won't have an opportunity to regain his form after it.
It has all the setup of an incoming slump period, and with it the end of his reputation of being the best NA / EU player. That is what I'm talking about when I say that the music is ending - Stephano gets a pass in a lot of areas because he is the best NA / EU player. He is able to, for example, forfeit tournaments repeatedly without losing his sponsorship, and without tournament organizers banning him from their events. When he streams, he is able to get >9000 viewers. All of this is because he is the best, and that is the reputation he has to maintain for the music and the parties to continue.
Where do you get from that to 'he's already in a slump?' Everything I said was contingent on him losing to HerO and then not improving on that loss in MLG. The entire argument was a hypothetical.
Ok, I'm sorry, I didn't remember all of those posts. But I would like to point out that you still haven't addressed half of what I said. And now that you say that "The entire argument was a hypothetical," I must ask, why did you even bother posting it? What was the purpose? Besides the fact that it didn't even come close to happening, I don't see what you hoped to accomplish by bringing it up.
Responses to your other arguments, because you asked for them:
You're nitpicking
Am I? Is his ZvZ not a weak spot? Did him losing to two base all-ins from SaSe and MaNa in MLG and DH not worry other fans? I recall differently. After those games, the bulk of people here was criticizing him for not being able to hold what he always held before, saying that his mechanics were sloppier than usual, and doom and glooming over his ZvZ. The losses cost him tens of thousands of dollars, they were important learning experiences.
Fanboyism =/= Highlighting positives
Highlighting positives is one thing, saying that people are haters / dumb for ever questioning Stephano's results in the last months quite another. Stephano took serious losses these last two months against people he is greatly favored against. Saying that those losses don't matter is fanboyism. They do matter, and Stephano learned from them.
Why bring up a hypothetical?
Why not? There was nothing to discuss but hypotheticals going into NASL, and with Stephano telling us that he 'didn't practice in two weeks' and 'don't expect much from me,' wasn't the response obvious? He was managing expectations, and so was I.
That he vastly exceeded those expectations is a cause for joy, but does not change what they were going into the tournament.
3. My point is, you threw the "slump" card out needlessly. I can only assume you would understand the consequences of your statements in Stephano's fanclub thread. Obviously if you start talking about slumps in a fanclub thread you are going to make fans needlessly worried. And then calling those fans fanboys for remaining positive you just make the situation worse. You're basically flame-baiting people. I can't help but think you came to this thread looking for an argument. Especially looking at how you've been carrying on for the past 20+ pages. Most people don't come to this thread to do what you're doing. If you had respect for those people you would just drop this right now. You've been restating your criticism again and again and again and again, it's getting quite tiresome and verging on the point of spam. If you want to talk about Stephano's mechanics, please go to a different forum.
Before his big win against HerO in NASL, I don't think there was a single rational fan who wasn't worried about him going into NASL. I spoke the words that other people were thinking about. Look closely and you're going to see that my first bout of negativity was in response to negativity from other posters who shared the same thoughts.
I stuck around because people started attacking me, personally, for what I said. Leaving such attacks unanswered is cowardly.
Obviously not everyone felt that way or else you wouldn't have been "attacked." I personally did not feel he was on the verge of slumping. I could tell there were some housing/internet trouble for him and it appeared to be affecting his play. I thought he would have trouble against Hero but only because Hero is awesome and he destroyed DRG recently. I wouldn't have thought any less of Stephano if he lost to Hero. But my point is, you don't bring out the word "slump" and not expect to get a response. If you don't want to get "attacked" then you can keep those particular thoughts to yourself. And, no offense, but I think the more courageous man is the one who knows when he doesn;t have to argue. When you start to defend yourself it makes you look vulnerable because it looks like you think you HAVE to defend yourself; almost as if you have some doubts about your own opinion. If your opinion was just "right" you wouldn't have to go this far to defend it. But yeah, if you actually wanted this debate to stop you would just drop it, which leads me to believe perhaps you wanted this all along. Just sayin'
On July 17 2012 07:52 Kuni wrote: Why would anyone have been worried after Stephano just recently destroyed WCS France and placed 3rd in Dreamhack Summer?
WCS France had which top player other than Stephano? Be fair here. Is Adelscott, Kleenex, and Eeel top tier players in SC 2?
DH Summer, look at the brackets. Taeja and HerO were the best Korean players there, and HerO knocked Taeja out before losing in a PvP to MaNa. Stephano played neither of them.
Stephano basically dodged every Code A / S Korean player there except for Keen, who he 2-1'd. His best result there was 2-0 Nerchio, and all the while he lost to both Slivko and Ziktomini, and placed 3rd-4th in a tournament that had a top 4 finish that was Dimaga, Fraer, MaNa, and himself. It was a mixed bag performance at best, and far below what he achieved in previous tournaments - ie Red Bull LAN.
And, no offense, but I think the more courageous man is the one who knows when he doesn;t have to argue. When you start to defend yourself it makes you look vulnerable because it looks like you think you HAVE to defend yourself; almost as if you have some doubts about your own opinion. If your opinion was just "right" you wouldn't have to go this far to defend it. But yeah, if you actually wanted this debate to stop you would just drop it, which leads me to believe perhaps you wanted this all along. Just sayin'
Sure, I could've just said 'I stand by my opinion' and stopped responding. But I think there's value to refuting the obvious fallacies. Stephano's fanbase has a bad rep on the rest of TL, and I felt the need to slow down the hype train before it gets worse.
When both sides desire an end, the baits are going to stop, and personally - I'm not the one baiting.
On July 17 2012 07:52 Kuni wrote: Why would anyone have been worried after Stephano just recently destroyed WCS France and placed 3rd in Dreamhack Summer?
WCS France had which top player other than Stephano? Be fair here. Is Adelscott, Kleenex, and Eeel top tier players in SC 2?
DH Summer, look at the brackets. Taeja and HerO were the best Korean players there, and HerO knocked Taeja out before losing in a PvP to MaNa. Stephano played neither of them.
Stephano basically dodged every Code A / S Korean player there except for Keen, who he 2-1'd. His best result there was 2-0 Nerchio, and all the while he lost to both Slivko and Ziktomini. It was a mixed bag performance at best, and far below what he achieved in previous tournaments - ie Red Bull LAN.
And, no offense, but I think the more courageous man is the one who knows when he doesn;t have to argue. When you start to defend yourself it makes you look vulnerable because it looks like you think you HAVE to defend yourself; almost as if you have some doubts about your own opinion. If your opinion was just "right" you wouldn't have to go this far to defend it. But yeah, if you actually wanted this debate to stop you would just drop it, which leads me to believe perhaps you wanted this all along. Just sayin'
That's not how it works here in the US. When you don't contest people who attack you, it says that you've tucked tail and ran.
When both sides desire an end, the baits are going to stop, and personally - I'm not the one baiting.
I live in the US, I know "how it works here" just fine, thanks. The fact is, if you made a strong, cohesive, and true argument (with no holes) there would be no need to debate. The longer the debate goes on the weaker your original argument looks. You would have been better off not responding at all if you truly believed you were right and the people attacking you were just trolls. But there are 2 possibilities I see: 1. You didn't know using the word slump would upset people, which is fine and this discussion should have been dropped long ago. 2. You knew some people would be upset but you said it anyways, which is technically flame-baiting and makes you a troll. The same can be said for your use of the term "fanboy" and many of your other comments. Every response you make now can be considered flame-baiting if you intentionally used these terms (knowing all the repurcussions). If you are not a troll you should bow out. You're entitled to your opinions and, as such, there isn't really anything to argue.
On July 17 2012 07:52 Kuni wrote: Why would anyone have been worried after Stephano just recently destroyed WCS France and placed 3rd in Dreamhack Summer?
WCS France had which top player other than Stephano? Be fair here. Is Adelscott, Kleenex, and Eeel top tier players in SC 2?
DH Summer, look at the brackets. Taeja and HerO were the best Korean players there, and HerO knocked Taeja out before losing in a PvP to MaNa. Stephano played neither of them.
Stephano basically dodged every Code A / S Korean player there except for Keen, who he 2-1'd. His best result there was 2-0 Nerchio, and all the while he lost to both Slivko and Ziktomini. It was a mixed bag performance at best, and far below what he achieved in previous tournaments - ie Red Bull LAN.
And, no offense, but I think the more courageous man is the one who knows when he doesn;t have to argue. When you start to defend yourself it makes you look vulnerable because it looks like you think you HAVE to defend yourself; almost as if you have some doubts about your own opinion. If your opinion was just "right" you wouldn't have to go this far to defend it. But yeah, if you actually wanted this debate to stop you would just drop it, which leads me to believe perhaps you wanted this all along. Just sayin'
That's not how it works here in the US. When you don't contest people who attack you, it says that you've tucked tail and ran.
When both sides desire an end, the baits are going to stop, and personally - I'm not the one baiting.
I live in the US, I know "how it works here" just fine, thanks. The fact is, if you made a strong, cohesive, and true argument (with no holes) there would be no need to debate. The longer the debate goes on the weaker your original argument looks. You would have been better off not responding at all if you truly believed you were right and the people attacking you were just trolls. But there are 2 possibilities I see: 1. You didn't knew using the word slump would upset people, which is fine and this discussion should have been dropped long ago. 2. You knew some people would be upset but you said it anyways, which is technically flame-baiting and makes you a troll. The same can be said for your use of the term "fanboy" and many of your other comments. Every response you make now can be considered flame-baiting if you intentionally used these terms (knowing all the repurcussions). If you are not a troll you should bow out. You're entitled to your opinions and, as such, there isn't really anything to argue.
Sure, I could've just said 'I stand by my opinion' and stopped responding. But I think there's value to refuting the obvious fallacies. Stephano's fanbase has a bad rep on the rest of TL, and I felt the need to slow down the hype train before it gets worse.
I reserve 'fanboy' for people I think fits the bill.
But you're correct about 'slump' hitting a raw nerve. Yet, it's not that bad. Here's what Liquipedia says about slump:
A player enters a slump when he performs far lower than usual for a period of time. Generally after a long period of dominance or a big title win, a player will enter a slump for a term. Sometimes players will only enter slumps for a short period of time; other times it may last many months or even years.
Slumps aren't all terrible ala IdrA's slump. Short slumps are able to rejuvenate a player, and make him better than before.
On July 17 2012 07:52 Kuni wrote: Why would anyone have been worried after Stephano just recently destroyed WCS France and placed 3rd in Dreamhack Summer?
WCS France had which top player other than Stephano? Be fair here. Is Adelscott, Kleenex, and Eeel top tier players in SC 2?
DH Summer, look at the brackets. Taeja and HerO were the best Korean players there, and HerO knocked Taeja out before losing in a PvP to MaNa. Stephano played neither of them.
Stephano basically dodged every Code A / S Korean player there except for Keen, who he 2-1'd. His best result there was 2-0 Nerchio, and all the while he lost to both Slivko and Ziktomini. It was a mixed bag performance at best, and far below what he achieved in previous tournaments - ie Red Bull LAN.
And, no offense, but I think the more courageous man is the one who knows when he doesn;t have to argue. When you start to defend yourself it makes you look vulnerable because it looks like you think you HAVE to defend yourself; almost as if you have some doubts about your own opinion. If your opinion was just "right" you wouldn't have to go this far to defend it. But yeah, if you actually wanted this debate to stop you would just drop it, which leads me to believe perhaps you wanted this all along. Just sayin'
That's not how it works here in the US. When you don't contest people who attack you, it says that you've tucked tail and ran.
When both sides desire an end, the baits are going to stop, and personally - I'm not the one baiting.
I live in the US, I know "how it works here" just fine, thanks. The fact is, if you made a strong, cohesive, and true argument (with no holes) there would be no need to debate. The longer the debate goes on the weaker your original argument looks. You would have been better off not responding at all if you truly believed you were right and the people attacking you were just trolls. But there are 2 possibilities I see: 1. You didn't knew using the word slump would upset people, which is fine and this discussion should have been dropped long ago. 2. You knew some people would be upset but you said it anyways, which is technically flame-baiting and makes you a troll. The same can be said for your use of the term "fanboy" and many of your other comments. Every response you make now can be considered flame-baiting if you intentionally used these terms (knowing all the repurcussions). If you are not a troll you should bow out. You're entitled to your opinions and, as such, there isn't really anything to argue.
Sure, I could've just said 'I stand by my opinion' and stopped responding. But I think there's value to refuting the obvious fallacies. Stephano's fanbase has a bad rep on the rest of TL, and I felt the need to slow down the hype train before it gets worse.
I reserve 'fanboy' for people I think fits the bill.
But you're correct about 'slump' hitting a raw nerve. I don't know why, because all a 'slump' is, for a player, is a period of worse performance than their usual. I think people got caught up on the IdrA slump, and thought I was referring to a drop of that magnitude for Stephano.
That's what I'm saying. If they are obvious fallicies they don't deserve a response. You could have simply said, "everything you need to know is in my original post," and that's all you would have had to do, assuming your argument is solid. I just feel the last 20 or so pages have been pointless drivel and honestly, it makes you and the entire thread look bad. You seem like a decent guy to me, so let's let the haters hate and move on.
No foreigner have constantly better results on tournaments these last months (he don't win one tournament per year, he is top 4-6 in every major tournaments).
You expect that he win all the tournys he enter. He is human, you forgot it.
Azarkon, i'm sure that you discover Stephano in IPL 3 like other americans. For you he was a guy who always had top world level. But for us, french, we saw the beginning, when he was a top 20 french player. When his biggest performance was to loose against Moman in 1/4 of Eosl winter 10 (french GSL at the time^^):
He was a little unknown player who started in october 2010. He became top fr in 4 months, became, top euro in 6 month, became top inter in 1 year. One year after he still win major tournaments, win against kor, and an american say is dead because he is just top 3, 4 or 6 in big event.... Wait his death before bury him.
Hey guys, this is a bit painfull to watch. It's really getting a bit out of control... It should be a fanclub and all I see is this pointless discussion with Azarkon. Please, you already saw that he won't be convinced neither banned so stop answering. Just stop feeding this. Anyway, congratulation Stephano, you are really amazing! I wish you the best for the mlg arena.
EPT
