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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 09 2013 21:30 sc4k wrote:Actually I find Sansa unbearable to watch  but she seems to have less scenes and they drag on less. She isn't really a character, more an emotional punchbag. I agree with and accept your points, if a certain amount of people in this thread could be weeded out then this thread would be a lot more civil I think and there would be less combustible arguments. Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 21:06 OutlaW- wrote:On June 09 2013 20:54 sc4k wrote:On June 09 2013 20:13 Erasme wrote:
Sam is the only non stark character strictly good. He's a nice guy, even tho hes a coward he rushed toward a whitewalker with just a little knife to save a baby. He's fairly smart and studies. Idk why all you want guys is tits and swords. I certainly don't want tits, and I don't really enjoy sword fighting scenes at all. It's possible to not be a meathead and also not love Sam's scenes. He's a reasonably sympathetic character, the problem lies more in the ham handed way his incompetence has been broadcast in his scenes...way too overtly and over the top. Him turning into a quivering wreck at almost every possible challenge and then having the courage to stab the white walker was a little too much of a turnaround to be believable, and kind of broke the immersion for me. It would have been much more realistic for his character (as presented in the show) to start rushing to the white walker, but then bottle out, turn tail and run. Also, Tyrion pretty much ticks all the boxes that Sam does but because he is more courageous and generally more competent he is a far more exciting character to watch. He is clearly 'strictly good', he hasn't done anything non-good since the show started. He is also intelligent and studies. On June 09 2013 20:07 Redox wrote:On June 09 2013 19:56 sc4k wrote:
have a distinct feeling that, were GRRM not projecting himself onto Sam, the character would be dead in the mud after about 10 pages. Which is really awkward, it's like he's given his 'avatar' a free ride. There are plenty of much more stupid people that are still alive. And what's really boring is the whole Sam discussion. Its like people spend 30 minutes to write posts about how watching a boring Sam scene stole 1 min of their life. It humours me to discuss things like this, if it doesn't for you, then you're very welcome to move on. Not like much else is going on in the thread, seeing as the last episode was 6 days ago and most of us are just desperate to get our hands on the next episode! And I wasn't talking about stupid, clearly Sam is not stupid. Far from it, he's one of the more informed people in the show. He's just physically incompetent and cowardly and I don't think I've seen anyone in the show who comes even close to him for physical incompetence and cowardice. And I'm NOT saying I dislike him for this, I'm just saying it kind of goes against the whole GRRM 'grimness' that he has lucked out so often and is not dead. In fact he hasn't even been scratched has he?! Tyrion is just as physically incompetent as Sam and he has survived, too, but you don't seem to mind him? And despite the fact that I think that you're exaggerating Sam's cowardice (he is a lesser coward now than at the start, perhaps you were to blind to see the development because you were too busy not liking his scenes?), cowardice isn't a trait that gets you killed. (In normal fiction it is, but not here. Same as with reality.) I think you're just biased. Well Tyrion has the protection of his family and millions of gold coins dude, that's what has kept him alive. They are not in equatable situations. I think you're biased too.
Based on what information do you think I'm biased? Are you just trying to use my argument against me with no proof behind it? Okay.. I guess this "discussion" is over. I don't think I need to remind you that Tyrion's family is literally hiring assassins to kill him.
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On June 09 2013 21:38 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 21:30 sc4k wrote:Actually I find Sansa unbearable to watch but she seems to have less scenes and they drag on less. She isn't really a character, more an emotional punchbag. I agree with and accept your points, if a certain amount of people in this thread could be weeded out then this thread would be a lot more civil I think and there would be less combustible arguments. On June 09 2013 21:06 OutlaW- wrote:On June 09 2013 20:54 sc4k wrote:On June 09 2013 20:13 Erasme wrote:
Sam is the only non stark character strictly good. He's a nice guy, even tho hes a coward he rushed toward a whitewalker with just a little knife to save a baby. He's fairly smart and studies. Idk why all you want guys is tits and swords. I certainly don't want tits, and I don't really enjoy sword fighting scenes at all. It's possible to not be a meathead and also not love Sam's scenes. He's a reasonably sympathetic character, the problem lies more in the ham handed way his incompetence has been broadcast in his scenes...way too overtly and over the top. Him turning into a quivering wreck at almost every possible challenge and then having the courage to stab the white walker was a little too much of a turnaround to be believable, and kind of broke the immersion for me. It would have been much more realistic for his character (as presented in the show) to start rushing to the white walker, but then bottle out, turn tail and run. Also, Tyrion pretty much ticks all the boxes that Sam does but because he is more courageous and generally more competent he is a far more exciting character to watch. He is clearly 'strictly good', he hasn't done anything non-good since the show started. He is also intelligent and studies. On June 09 2013 20:07 Redox wrote:On June 09 2013 19:56 sc4k wrote:
have a distinct feeling that, were GRRM not projecting himself onto Sam, the character would be dead in the mud after about 10 pages. Which is really awkward, it's like he's given his 'avatar' a free ride. There are plenty of much more stupid people that are still alive. And what's really boring is the whole Sam discussion. Its like people spend 30 minutes to write posts about how watching a boring Sam scene stole 1 min of their life. It humours me to discuss things like this, if it doesn't for you, then you're very welcome to move on. Not like much else is going on in the thread, seeing as the last episode was 6 days ago and most of us are just desperate to get our hands on the next episode! And I wasn't talking about stupid, clearly Sam is not stupid. Far from it, he's one of the more informed people in the show. He's just physically incompetent and cowardly and I don't think I've seen anyone in the show who comes even close to him for physical incompetence and cowardice. And I'm NOT saying I dislike him for this, I'm just saying it kind of goes against the whole GRRM 'grimness' that he has lucked out so often and is not dead. In fact he hasn't even been scratched has he?! Tyrion is just as physically incompetent as Sam and he has survived, too, but you don't seem to mind him? And despite the fact that I think that you're exaggerating Sam's cowardice (he is a lesser coward now than at the start, perhaps you were to blind to see the development because you were too busy not liking his scenes?), cowardice isn't a trait that gets you killed. (In normal fiction it is, but not here. Same as with reality.) I think you're just biased. Well Tyrion has the protection of his family and millions of gold coins dude, that's what has kept him alive. They are not in equatable situations. I think you're biased too. Based on what information do you think I'm biased? Are you just trying to use my argument against me with no proof behind it? Okay.. I guess this "discussion" is over. I don't think I need to remind you that Tyrion's family is literally hiring assassins to kill him.
I'm just pointing out that trying to equate Sam and Tyrion's situations is not valid. Quite certainly, Tyrion in Sam's situation should be dead. He has definitely lucked out a few times as well, I'll give you that - pretty much everything onwards from Bron has involved some luck. I am biased because I enjoy Tyrion's character and scenes so infinitely more than Sam's. You are probably biased because you like Sam and enjoy his scenes. I mean Tyrion is basically the biggest draw and Sam is one of the biggest detractors for me. It's really just personal preference at this point.
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On June 09 2013 21:13 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 20:54 sc4k wrote:On June 09 2013 20:13 Erasme wrote:
Sam is the only non stark character strictly good. He's a nice guy, even tho hes a coward he rushed toward a whitewalker with just a little knife to save a baby. He's fairly smart and studies. Idk why all you want guys is tits and swords. I certainly don't want tits, and I don't really enjoy sword fighting scenes at all. It's possible to not be a meathead and also not love Sam's scenes. He's a reasonably sympathetic character, the problem lies more in the ham handed way his incompetence has been broadcast in his scenes...way too overtly and over the top. Him turning into a quivering wreck at almost every possible challenge and then having the courage to stab the white walker was a little too much of a turnaround to be believable, and kind of broke the immersion for me. It would have been much more realistic for his character (as presented in the show) to start rushing to the white walker, but then bottle out, turn tail and run. Well, at least that's a rational argument I can relate to. and if that's the reason you don't like Sam, that's perfectly fine. It just doesn't help that every post like yours attracts a post from another guy that goes "Sam is fat and stupid and I wanna beat him up for it!".  Personally, I don't quite agree, though, and I don't really see Sam's portrayal as any more or less realistic than anything else in the show. You could make all the same arguments about Sansa, for instance, who at this point might as well have a message on her back that reads "Crush my dreams! Crush my dreams!". Some characters are going in a very specific direction, and I'm quite fine with that.
For me the two characters whom i want to see something horrible happen to them is Sam and Sansa. They both lucked out many times, have been and continu to be selfish.
Sansa wanted to live with the court then wanted to be queen then wanted to be lady of high garden then doesn't want to end in the bed of and yet she continues to be a bitch to her servants... Greedyness and retardness define this girl.
Sam has always been in a terrible condition and doesnt have any confidence so he's being a coward. But what does he want to do? Bang the first girl he can. Like the dude can't redeem himself and gain confidence by being useful to others and try-harding. At least having a girl beside him, motivates him so he's being courageous and shows off his knowledge.
Now the world of got is rly harsh and it is extremely strange that they both managed to survive or that something horrible didn't happen to them yet (especially Sam).
Even if i have doubts i think that Sam and his "wife" and his "child" will die during the fight with the wildlings at Castle-Black or wherever it will take place (by the wildlings or the raven who killed Mormont).
And i'm sure 100% Sansa will get raped by Jeoffrey or that he will attempt to rape her. The only thing that can stop that is Tyrion and Shae so we might see Tyrion, Shae or Jeoffrey die.
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On June 09 2013 19:36 frontliner2 wrote:
Lol am I the only one who loves Sam? He's kind, he's generous, he's not selfish and he strives to make others feel safe and happy. Great guy really. A horrible warrior but perhaps the best humanist in Westeros.
I like him too, but many people here hate him because he's a fat coward. Kinda like his father did.
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On June 09 2013 21:50 Acertos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 21:13 Conti wrote:On June 09 2013 20:54 sc4k wrote:On June 09 2013 20:13 Erasme wrote:
Sam is the only non stark character strictly good. He's a nice guy, even tho hes a coward he rushed toward a whitewalker with just a little knife to save a baby. He's fairly smart and studies. Idk why all you want guys is tits and swords. I certainly don't want tits, and I don't really enjoy sword fighting scenes at all. It's possible to not be a meathead and also not love Sam's scenes. He's a reasonably sympathetic character, the problem lies more in the ham handed way his incompetence has been broadcast in his scenes...way too overtly and over the top. Him turning into a quivering wreck at almost every possible challenge and then having the courage to stab the white walker was a little too much of a turnaround to be believable, and kind of broke the immersion for me. It would have been much more realistic for his character (as presented in the show) to start rushing to the white walker, but then bottle out, turn tail and run. Well, at least that's a rational argument I can relate to. and if that's the reason you don't like Sam, that's perfectly fine. It just doesn't help that every post like yours attracts a post from another guy that goes "Sam is fat and stupid and I wanna beat him up for it!". Personally, I don't quite agree, though, and I don't really see Sam's portrayal as any more or less realistic than anything else in the show. You could make all the same arguments about Sansa, for instance, who at this point might as well have a message on her back that reads "Crush my dreams! Crush my dreams!". Some characters are going in a very specific direction, and I'm quite fine with that. For me the two characters whom i want to see something horrible happen to them is Sam and Sansa. They both lucked out many times, have been and continu to be selfish. Sansa wanted to live with the court then wanted to be queen then wanted to be lady of high garden then doesn't want to end in the bed of and yet she continues to be a bitch to her servants... Greedyness and retardness define this girl. Sam has always been in a terrible condition and doesnt have any confidence so he's being a coward. But what does he want to do? Bang the first girl he can. Like the dude can't redeem himself and gain confidence by being useful to others and try-harding. At least having a girl beside him, motivates him so he's being courageous and shows off his knowledge. Now the world of got is rly harsh and it is extremely strange that they both managed to survive or that something horrible didn't happen to them yet (especially Sam). Even if i have doubts i think that Sam and his "wife" and his "child" will die during the fight with the wildlings at Castle-Black or wherever it will take place (by the wildlings or the raven who killed Mormont). And i'm sure 100% Sansa will get raped by Jeoffrey or that he will attempt to rape her. The only thing that can stop that is Tyrion and Shae so we might see Tyrion, Shae or Jeoffrey die.
Sansa has been suffering more and more ever since the end of the first season and you honestly think she's lucky? Arya is much luckier than she is. (and very annoying this season, imo)
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On June 09 2013 22:03 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 21:50 Acertos wrote:On June 09 2013 21:13 Conti wrote:On June 09 2013 20:54 sc4k wrote:On June 09 2013 20:13 Erasme wrote:
Sam is the only non stark character strictly good. He's a nice guy, even tho hes a coward he rushed toward a whitewalker with just a little knife to save a baby. He's fairly smart and studies. Idk why all you want guys is tits and swords. I certainly don't want tits, and I don't really enjoy sword fighting scenes at all. It's possible to not be a meathead and also not love Sam's scenes. He's a reasonably sympathetic character, the problem lies more in the ham handed way his incompetence has been broadcast in his scenes...way too overtly and over the top. Him turning into a quivering wreck at almost every possible challenge and then having the courage to stab the white walker was a little too much of a turnaround to be believable, and kind of broke the immersion for me. It would have been much more realistic for his character (as presented in the show) to start rushing to the white walker, but then bottle out, turn tail and run. Well, at least that's a rational argument I can relate to. and if that's the reason you don't like Sam, that's perfectly fine. It just doesn't help that every post like yours attracts a post from another guy that goes "Sam is fat and stupid and I wanna beat him up for it!". Personally, I don't quite agree, though, and I don't really see Sam's portrayal as any more or less realistic than anything else in the show. You could make all the same arguments about Sansa, for instance, who at this point might as well have a message on her back that reads "Crush my dreams! Crush my dreams!". Some characters are going in a very specific direction, and I'm quite fine with that. For me the two characters whom i want to see something horrible happen to them is Sam and Sansa. They both lucked out many times, have been and continu to be selfish. Sansa wanted to live with the court then wanted to be queen then wanted to be lady of high garden then doesn't want to end in the bed of and yet she continues to be a bitch to her servants... Greedyness and retardness define this girl. Sam has always been in a terrible condition and doesnt have any confidence so he's being a coward. But what does he want to do? Bang the first girl he can. Like the dude can't redeem himself and gain confidence by being useful to others and try-harding. At least having a girl beside him, motivates him so he's being courageous and shows off his knowledge. Now the world of got is rly harsh and it is extremely strange that they both managed to survive or that something horrible didn't happen to them yet (especially Sam). Even if i have doubts i think that Sam and his "wife" and his "child" will die during the fight with the wildlings at Castle-Black or wherever it will take place (by the wildlings or the raven who killed Mormont). And i'm sure 100% Sansa will get raped by Jeoffrey or that he will attempt to rape her. The only thing that can stop that is Tyrion and Shae so we might see Tyrion, Shae or Jeoffrey die. Sansa has been suffering more and more ever since the end of the first season and you honestly think she's lucky? Arya is much luckier than she is. (and very annoying this season, imo)
Idk i think that Sansa has always been greedy all the time. Even after her father died and everything why not become the lady of high-garden and do little schemes without giving it a little thought.
I like Arya, she's bold, strong and not greedy unlike the majority of got characters. I want to see more screen-time of her.
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On June 09 2013 21:06 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 20:54 sc4k wrote:On June 09 2013 20:13 Erasme wrote:
Sam is the only non stark character strictly good. He's a nice guy, even tho hes a coward he rushed toward a whitewalker with just a little knife to save a baby. He's fairly smart and studies. Idk why all you want guys is tits and swords. I certainly don't want tits, and I don't really enjoy sword fighting scenes at all. It's possible to not be a meathead and also not love Sam's scenes. He's a reasonably sympathetic character, the problem lies more in the ham handed way his incompetence has been broadcast in his scenes...way too overtly and over the top. Him turning into a quivering wreck at almost every possible challenge and then having the courage to stab the white walker was a little too much of a turnaround to be believable, and kind of broke the immersion for me. It would have been much more realistic for his character (as presented in the show) to start rushing to the white walker, but then bottle out, turn tail and run. Also, Tyrion pretty much ticks all the boxes that Sam does but because he is more courageous and generally more competent he is a far more exciting character to watch. He is clearly 'strictly good', he hasn't done anything non-good since the show started. He is also intelligent and studies. On June 09 2013 20:07 Redox wrote:On June 09 2013 19:56 sc4k wrote:
have a distinct feeling that, were GRRM not projecting himself onto Sam, the character would be dead in the mud after about 10 pages. Which is really awkward, it's like he's given his 'avatar' a free ride. There are plenty of much more stupid people that are still alive. And what's really boring is the whole Sam discussion. Its like people spend 30 minutes to write posts about how watching a boring Sam scene stole 1 min of their life. It humours me to discuss things like this, if it doesn't for you, then you're very welcome to move on. Not like much else is going on in the thread, seeing as the last episode was 6 days ago and most of us are just desperate to get our hands on the next episode! And I wasn't talking about stupid, clearly Sam is not stupid. Far from it, he's one of the more informed people in the show. He's just physically incompetent and cowardly and I don't think I've seen anyone in the show who comes even close to him for physical incompetence and cowardice. And I'm NOT saying I dislike him for this, I'm just saying it kind of goes against the whole GRRM 'grimness' that he has lucked out so often and is not dead. In fact he hasn't even been scratched has he?! Tyrion is just as physically incompetent as Sam and he has survived, too, but you don't seem to mind him? And despite the fact that I think that you're exaggerating Sam's cowardice (he is a lesser coward now than at the start, perhaps you were to blind to see the development because you were too busy not liking his scenes?), cowardice isn't a trait that gets you killed. (In normal fiction it is, but not here. Same as with reality.) I think you're just biased.
Tyrion beat a man to death with a shield don't fuck with him.
I don't know why people think Sam is intelligent, he has literally failed at everything he has done and the only reason people think he is anything but a fat annoying hodor with 0% testosterone is because he comes out with random facts from reading books.
The only thing that seems to motivate him to do anything is the prospect of wildling pussy. It's like they picked some random 14 year old nerd with no life skills and put him in the body of a manchild in what is supposed to be a brutal, gritty universe THEN gave him screen time as something other than comic relief. Seriously what the hell.
Tyrion displays his intellect frequently, hodor wannabe manchild does not, in fact he doesn't do anything notable aside from fuck everything up with what I assume to be slapstick comedy.
edit: Oh and yes I am aware he killed a whitewalker, then proceeded to throw the only weapon that can kill the things aside from fire to run away with the only woman that has ever looked at him twice in the faint hope of getting laid. I would consider that a major fuckup.
I hope he gets friendzoned hard then the chick runs off with the bolton bastard and they give him the theon treatment.
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On June 09 2013 22:49 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 21:06 OutlaW- wrote:On June 09 2013 20:54 sc4k wrote:On June 09 2013 20:13 Erasme wrote:
Sam is the only non stark character strictly good. He's a nice guy, even tho hes a coward he rushed toward a whitewalker with just a little knife to save a baby. He's fairly smart and studies. Idk why all you want guys is tits and swords. I certainly don't want tits, and I don't really enjoy sword fighting scenes at all. It's possible to not be a meathead and also not love Sam's scenes. He's a reasonably sympathetic character, the problem lies more in the ham handed way his incompetence has been broadcast in his scenes...way too overtly and over the top. Him turning into a quivering wreck at almost every possible challenge and then having the courage to stab the white walker was a little too much of a turnaround to be believable, and kind of broke the immersion for me. It would have been much more realistic for his character (as presented in the show) to start rushing to the white walker, but then bottle out, turn tail and run. Also, Tyrion pretty much ticks all the boxes that Sam does but because he is more courageous and generally more competent he is a far more exciting character to watch. He is clearly 'strictly good', he hasn't done anything non-good since the show started. He is also intelligent and studies. On June 09 2013 20:07 Redox wrote:On June 09 2013 19:56 sc4k wrote:
have a distinct feeling that, were GRRM not projecting himself onto Sam, the character would be dead in the mud after about 10 pages. Which is really awkward, it's like he's given his 'avatar' a free ride. There are plenty of much more stupid people that are still alive. And what's really boring is the whole Sam discussion. Its like people spend 30 minutes to write posts about how watching a boring Sam scene stole 1 min of their life. It humours me to discuss things like this, if it doesn't for you, then you're very welcome to move on. Not like much else is going on in the thread, seeing as the last episode was 6 days ago and most of us are just desperate to get our hands on the next episode! And I wasn't talking about stupid, clearly Sam is not stupid. Far from it, he's one of the more informed people in the show. He's just physically incompetent and cowardly and I don't think I've seen anyone in the show who comes even close to him for physical incompetence and cowardice. And I'm NOT saying I dislike him for this, I'm just saying it kind of goes against the whole GRRM 'grimness' that he has lucked out so often and is not dead. In fact he hasn't even been scratched has he?! Tyrion is just as physically incompetent as Sam and he has survived, too, but you don't seem to mind him? And despite the fact that I think that you're exaggerating Sam's cowardice (he is a lesser coward now than at the start, perhaps you were to blind to see the development because you were too busy not liking his scenes?), cowardice isn't a trait that gets you killed. (In normal fiction it is, but not here. Same as with reality.) I think you're just biased. Tyrion beat a man to death with a shield don't fuck with him. I don't know why people think Sam is intelligent, he has literally failed at everything he has done and the only reason people think he is anything but a fat annoying hodor with 0% testosterone is because he comes out with random facts from reading books. The only thing that seems to motivate him to do anything is the prospect of wildling pussy. It's like they picked some random 14 year old nerd with no life skills and put him in the body of a manchild in what is supposed to be a brutal, gritty universe THEN gave him screen time as something other than comic relief. Seriously what the hell. Tyrion displays his intellect frequently, hodor wannabe manchild does not, in fact he doesn't do anything notable aside from fuck everything up with what I assume to be slapstick comedy.
Thank you for proving the point I was making in my previous post to sc4k.
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So many badasses in this thread lately!
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George RR Martin specifically made the character Sam to appear to be a worthless coward, when in fact he is not worthless or unintelligent. Believing that he is shows you have not understood the author's/creator's intention.
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On June 09 2013 23:05 Usagi wrote:
So many badasses in this thread lately!
So many Sams in this thread you mean! ^_^
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Sam is a bit boring at first because he is so stereotypical IMO. Also so nice and innocent in a world of plotting douches. With that said, I love him and find his relationship with Jon one of the best in the whole saga.
And he is far from useless. In the right circumstances he is easily worth dozens/hundreds of your average soldiers thanks to his skills, which are very rare in Westeros.
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On June 09 2013 23:32 Salteador Neo wrote:
Sam is a bit boring at first because he is so stereotypical IMO. Also so nice and innocent in a world of plotting douches. With that said, I love him and find his relationship with Sam one of the best in the whole saga.
And he is far from useless. In the right circumstances he is easily worth dozens/hundreds of your average soldiers thanks to his skills, which are very rare in Westeros.
Sam's relationship with Sam?
Skills?
Wha....
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On June 09 2013 23:24 Thor.Rush wrote:
George RR Martin specifically made the character Sam to appear to be a worthless coward, when in fact he is not worthless or unintelligent. Believing that he is shows you have not understood the author's/creator's intention.
I agree, and I'm really surprised if anyone truly doesn't notice Sam's virtues and that GRRM has something in store for him...he would have died in one episode otherwise. But it's a bit groan-inducingly cliché isn't it? 'I may be a coward, and appear worthless, but I'll show you!' is arguably one of the most overused tropes in pulp fantasy. Plus they just use too many scenes to get across the whole pathetic and cowardly aspect.
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On June 09 2013 23:39 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 23:24 Thor.Rush wrote:
George RR Martin specifically made the character Sam to appear to be a worthless coward, when in fact he is not worthless or unintelligent. Believing that he is shows you have not understood the author's/creator's intention. I agree, and I'm really surprised if anyone truly doesn't notice Sam's virtues and that GRRM has something in store for him...he would have died in one episode otherwise. But it's a bit groan-inducingly cliché isn't it? 'I may be a coward, and appear worthless, but I'll show you!' is arguably one of the most overused tropes in pulp fantasy. Plus they just use too many scenes to get across the whole pathetic and cowardly aspect.
It's been a bit too much of his whining sometimes I agree. It's cliché, but it's still interesting to me to see how an annoyingly whiny coward can prove us (the audience) wrong..so it works, as long as there's not too much of it!
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On June 09 2013 23:39 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 23:24 Thor.Rush wrote:
George RR Martin specifically made the character Sam to appear to be a worthless coward, when in fact he is not worthless or unintelligent. Believing that he is shows you have not understood the author's/creator's intention. I agree, and I'm really surprised if anyone truly doesn't notice Sam's virtues and that GRRM has something in store for him...he would have died in one episode otherwise. But it's a bit groan-inducingly cliché isn't it? 'I may be a coward, and appear worthless, but I'll show you!' is arguably one of the most overused tropes in pulp fantasy. Plus they just use too many scenes to get across the whole pathetic and cowardly aspect.
True, but if he is going to become/do something awesome if it's not really really well established how much of a pussy he is then these later scenes would have less of an impact, no?
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I don't see a problem. I do understand that it's fair to say that the whole "coward becomes a big deal" thing is overused in fantasy but you still can't look at GoT and think that you've seen it before. Some of you may have seen it in a bunch of cheap works of fantasy but A Song of Ice and Fire is written intelligently. Don't compare it to cheap literature.
I don't know where Sam is going but I expect that he won't suddenly become a master swordsman after a montage video.
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excited for the episode tonight
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On June 09 2013 23:39 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 23:24 Thor.Rush wrote:
George RR Martin specifically made the character Sam to appear to be a worthless coward, when in fact he is not worthless or unintelligent. Believing that he is shows you have not understood the author's/creator's intention. I agree, and I'm really surprised if anyone truly doesn't notice Sam's virtues and that GRRM has something in store for him...he would have died in one episode otherwise. But it's a bit groan-inducingly cliché isn't it? 'I may be a coward, and appear worthless, but I'll show you!' is arguably one of the most overused tropes in pulp fantasy. Plus they just use too many scenes to get across the whole pathetic and cowardly aspect.
I mean, the scenes aren't just about his cowardice. It all has a purpose; I mean, the implications of Sam figuring out how to kill the White Walkers with dragonglass/obsidian, for instance, hardly detracts from the plot.
That being said, your objections are valid. But have some faith in GRRM...wait, nvm. Yeah, your objections are valid.
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i guess the storyline everyone expects from sam is that he goes from that useless guy that never achieved anything to that guy that finds a niche where he is a valuable asset.
Knowing that you need dragonglass to kill the white walkers is already quite useful.
but then.. its GRRM.. he might build that storyline up just to kill sam off the show just before he could achieve something meaningful. who knows.
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EPT
