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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 29 2013 04:08 jinorazi wrote:cersei not the most disliked? shes the most annoying, evil, scheming bitch, a real fine grade A cunt and beauty only supported with make up. its inconsistent to say shae is the worst actress/character while not pointing fingers to others 
Idk about that. I never watch any Cersei scenes and just get annoyed. Her character is needed to support the conflict and I feel she portrays her character well. Shae on the other hand seems to be completely unable to understand Tyrions situation and I feel like this is almost out of character. I thought she was supposed to be smarter than this sort of thing.
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why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king!
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On May 29 2013 04:08 jinorazi wrote:cersei not the most disliked? shes the most annoying, evil, scheming bitch, a real fine grade A cunt and beauty only supported with make up. its inconsistent to say shae is the worst actress/character while not pointing fingers to others
You're kinda confusing the basis on why we hate Shae compared to Cercei. Cercei's character is what we hate. And she plays it off really well. The few times you're supposed to feel sympathy for her, you actually kinda do, sorta not really Shae on the other hand, I think she has horrible acting and cant get her character across as well as I think she could. For the most part, it feels like Tyrion has to carry the dialogue driven scenes when hes doing it with her.
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Not having GoT is worse than not having pr0n.
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On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king!
Why do you assume that Melissandre is evil or doing evil deeds?
The shadow demon was indeed... creepy, but not much that reviving people and causing them to lose a part of themselves.
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On May 29 2013 06:26 CrimsonLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! Why do you assume that Melissandre is evil or doing evil deeds? The shadow demon was indeed... creepy, but not much that reviving people and causing them to lose a part of themselves.
She uses people as means to her ends with little regard or care. I'd consider her on par with Littlefinger in that they both have an agenda and follow it ruthlessly, and killing/letting people die for that cause wouldn't even register as a concern.
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On May 29 2013 07:12 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 06:26 CrimsonLotus wrote:On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! Why do you assume that Melissandre is evil or doing evil deeds? The shadow demon was indeed... creepy, but not much that reviving people and causing them to lose a part of themselves. She uses people as means to her ends with little regard or care. I'd consider her on par with Littlefinger in that they both have an agenda and follow it ruthlessly, and killing/letting people die for that cause wouldn't even register as a concern.
Yeah but she claims it all as purity and holiness. Maybe to her she's doing good deeds and she thinks non-believers won't understand.
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On May 29 2013 07:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:12 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2013 06:26 CrimsonLotus wrote:On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! Why do you assume that Melissandre is evil or doing evil deeds? The shadow demon was indeed... creepy, but not much that reviving people and causing them to lose a part of themselves. She uses people as means to her ends with little regard or care. I'd consider her on par with Littlefinger in that they both have an agenda and follow it ruthlessly, and killing/letting people die for that cause wouldn't even register as a concern. Yeah but she claims it all as purity and holiness. Maybe to her she's doing good deeds and she thinks non-believers won't understand.
Of course she is, to her. If a character actually recognizes they're doing something bad, they're not all that evil at heart.
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I feel like of all the instances of Rhylorr we've seen (or however its spelled), melisandre is clearly not a good person in comparison to the others. Also i tend to use Davos as my moral compass for the show.
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On May 29 2013 08:05 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 29 2013 07:12 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2013 06:26 CrimsonLotus wrote:On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! Why do you assume that Melissandre is evil or doing evil deeds? The shadow demon was indeed... creepy, but not much that reviving people and causing them to lose a part of themselves. She uses people as means to her ends with little regard or care. I'd consider her on par with Littlefinger in that they both have an agenda and follow it ruthlessly, and killing/letting people die for that cause wouldn't even register as a concern. Yeah but she claims it all as purity and holiness. Maybe to her she's doing good deeds and she thinks non-believers won't understand. Of course she is, to her. If a character actually recognizes they're doing something bad, they're not all that evil at heart.
But Littlefinger for instance is self-centered. He knows he is doing what he is doing to further his own interests, for example he is seeking power for power's sake. Melisandre seems to be thinking that the Lord of Light is this universal force of justice, so dying to fire for example is actually salvation and she is really helping these people have the best death possible.
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On May 29 2013 09:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 08:05 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2013 07:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 29 2013 07:12 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2013 06:26 CrimsonLotus wrote:On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! Why do you assume that Melissandre is evil or doing evil deeds? The shadow demon was indeed... creepy, but not much that reviving people and causing them to lose a part of themselves. She uses people as means to her ends with little regard or care. I'd consider her on par with Littlefinger in that they both have an agenda and follow it ruthlessly, and killing/letting people die for that cause wouldn't even register as a concern. Yeah but she claims it all as purity and holiness. Maybe to her she's doing good deeds and she thinks non-believers won't understand. Of course she is, to her. If a character actually recognizes they're doing something bad, they're not all that evil at heart. But Littlefinger for instance is self-centered. He knows he is doing what he is doing to further his own interests, for example he is seeking power for power's sake. Melisandre seems to be thinking that the Lord of Light is this universal force of justice, so dying to fire for example is actually salvation and she is really helping these people have the best death possible.
Both of these people follow codes that place them above the general well-being or fair treatment of others. Thoros is a good example that serving their God doesn't mean that human beings need to be disregarded - he aims to protect the innocent and do what he can (with some degree of pragmatism). Melisandre is an example of an utter fanatic, who would burn the world if it served her goals.
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On May 29 2013 04:16 ragingfungus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 04:08 jinorazi wrote:cersei not the most disliked? shes the most annoying, evil, scheming bitch, a real fine grade A cunt and beauty only supported with make up. its inconsistent to say shae is the worst actress/character while not pointing fingers to others Idk about that. I never watch any Cersei scenes and just get annoyed. Her character is needed to support the conflict and I feel she portrays her character well. Shae on the other hand seems to be completely unable to understand Tyrions situation and I feel like this is almost out of character. I thought she was supposed to be smarter than this sort of thing.
I totally disagree. Tyrion's losing Shae because he isn't standing up to his father for her. Compare Tyrion's passivity to Jaime's self-sacrifice for Brienne. Jaime's standing up for his woman more than Tyrion is. Shae's angry because she loves Tyrion, but Tyrion is trying to sweep her under the rug to keep his father happy.
Some people get angry at Shae for not understanding Tyrion's dilemma, but I'm more frustrated with Tyrion for not taking action.
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On May 29 2013 14:00 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 04:16 ragingfungus wrote:On May 29 2013 04:08 jinorazi wrote:cersei not the most disliked? shes the most annoying, evil, scheming bitch, a real fine grade A cunt and beauty only supported with make up. its inconsistent to say shae is the worst actress/character while not pointing fingers to others Idk about that. I never watch any Cersei scenes and just get annoyed. Her character is needed to support the conflict and I feel she portrays her character well. Shae on the other hand seems to be completely unable to understand Tyrions situation and I feel like this is almost out of character. I thought she was supposed to be smarter than this sort of thing. I totally disagree. Tyrion's losing Shae because he isn't standing up to his father for her. Compare Tyrion's passivity to Jaime's self-sacrifice for Brienne. Jaime's standing up for his woman more than Tyrion is. Shae's angry because she loves Tyrion, but Tyrion is trying to sweep her under the rug to keep his father happy. Some people get angry at Shae for not understanding Tyrion's dilemma, but I'm more frustrated with Tyrion for not taking action.
What's he to do? Ignore his father and do whatever he pleases with Shae. Pretty sure that would mean a dead Shae, being exiled/shunned and/or killed himself and/or all his wealth taken away from him. He's picking the better of the 2 bad options imo.
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On May 29 2013 06:26 CrimsonLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! Why do you assume that Melissandre is evil or doing evil deeds? The shadow demon was indeed... creepy, but not much that reviving people and causing them to lose a part of themselves.
I feel like Melissandre is also playing the game of thrones. Shes obsessed with getting a true heir to the throne put into her / kings blood shit. + Show Spoiler +Also, if we're allowing speculation in this thread now (no notice at top...) + Show Spoiler +I think she will kill Stannis sometime in the future, probably not in season 3 though. Remember how last episode she talks about how the sheep never sees the blade before its killed, or something like that? I know she was talking about Gendry but you can't always count out dialogue in GoT as it almost always applies someway later. Sorry if this is against the rules ;_;
Also I keep wanting to ask, is your signature a play off of mine? lol
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On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king!
This is not true. Consider the old Gods and Brann's/Jojan foresight along with Brann's ability to control his wolf.
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On May 29 2013 14:00 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 04:16 ragingfungus wrote:On May 29 2013 04:08 jinorazi wrote:cersei not the most disliked? shes the most annoying, evil, scheming bitch, a real fine grade A cunt and beauty only supported with make up. its inconsistent to say shae is the worst actress/character while not pointing fingers to others Idk about that. I never watch any Cersei scenes and just get annoyed. Her character is needed to support the conflict and I feel she portrays her character well. Shae on the other hand seems to be completely unable to understand Tyrions situation and I feel like this is almost out of character. I thought she was supposed to be smarter than this sort of thing. I totally disagree. Tyrion's losing Shae because he isn't standing up to his father for her. Compare Tyrion's passivity to Jaime's self-sacrifice for Brienne. Jaime's standing up for his woman more than Tyrion is. Shae's angry because she loves Tyrion, but Tyrion is trying to sweep her under the rug to keep his father happy. Some people get angry at Shae for not understanding Tyrion's dilemma, but I'm more frustrated with Tyrion for not taking action.
As he challenged Shae with, what he would do anywhere else needs to be answered before he can do anything like that. He is more or less dependent on being part of his wealthy family. Unless he had some other support show up to replace it he would be in flea bottom, or whatever equivalent, juggling and cartwheeling until someone decides to associate him and his "dwarven curse" with some misfortune and kills him.
Jaime might be liable to do all sorts of "crazy" things at this point. Jaime is a broken man. He lost the one thing that was central to making him who he was, and he initially just wanted to die in response.
Tyrion is not broken, nor has he even been close to the nearest approximation by experiencing a particularly desperate circumstance. He is just shat on by a couple of the other members of his family as he has always been. That is nothing new to him. There is nothing to drive him to be willing to take the leap of abandoning everything he has for the dismal-erring-on-horrific alternatives that exist for him.
In other similar situations, when someone offers the "lets run away from it all" idea, it is widely taken as ridiculous and shot down. Doesn't the same apply here?
As ragingfungus said, Shae does tend to be good about understanding people's situations and motives and she should be aware of this. I'm tempted to say "plot hole" or "she is a misandrist", but it could be that her own background causes her to have an honest blind spot regarding what type of decision this is for Tyrion.
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Well, I mean it's not like tyrion is married just for appearance. They expect him to make a child and the opportunities he'll get to see Shae in the future are slim to none, especially now that if he gets seen with her in public it won't go unnoticed and he'd probably be punished much more severely. This is essentially breaking up right at the apex of their relationship. I think Shae's reaction is reasonable. To her tyrion is the only thing in her life right now.
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On May 29 2013 15:16 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Well, I mean it's not like tyrion is married just for appearance. They expect him to make a child and the opportunities he'll get to see Shae in the future are slim to none, especially now that if he gets seen with her in public it won't go unnoticed and he'd probably be punished much more severely. This is essentially breaking up right at the apex of their relationship. I think Shae's reaction is reasonable. To her tyrion is the only thing in her life right now.
Shae is Sansa's handmaiden. They will see each other everyday if she wants to continue to serve Sansa. Knowing how difficult this situation must be for her, good guy Tyrion offered her a secluded place to stay if she wants to leave. She didn't seem to like that option, so I'm guessing she's not going anywhere. Plus, in her heart, she absolutely adores Tyrion and wants to be with him. She's angry right now, which she has every right to be. It's a frustrating, unfortunate circumstance.
I think it would be "easier" for them to continue their relationship if she stays. They've been keeping it a secret the whole time, anyway. Being wed to Sansa is just another factor they would have to tolerate. It's possible they could even confine in Sansa and tell her what's going on, since neither of them wants part in this arrange marriage. I know that's a far stretch but it's obvious how head-over-heals Shae and Tyrion are for each other. I guess I'm being a hopeless romantic. lol >< I just loved their chemistry and it sucks seeing their relationship falling apart this way. Maybe there's hope for them...
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On May 29 2013 14:46 houseurmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! This is not true. Consider the old Gods and Brann's/Jojan foresight along with Brann's ability to control his wolf.
how do you know the old gods gave them their abilities and not some other explanation?
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On May 29 2013 16:14 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 14:46 houseurmusic wrote:On May 29 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
why do so many people think the lord of light is evil? he can bring back people to life and do a bunch of other shit, all the other gods do absolutely nothing. Maybe the lord of light is the only real god, and in game of thrones its hard to say someone is COMPLETELY evil. Like the brotherhood worships the lord of light and they are one of the good and noble groups. Melissandre could just be using her blood magic and use the lord of lights powers for evil, when they probably could be used for good as well, like the brotherhood.
Stannis is king! This is not true. Consider the old Gods and Brann's/Jojan foresight along with Brann's ability to control his wolf. how do you know the old gods gave them their abilities and not some other explanation?
Osha and Jojan talks a lot about it, and it has been sprinkled through out the episodes.
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EPT
