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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1782

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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21689 Posts
May 13 2019 15:25 GMT
#35621
Atleast we know why the battle for Winterfell was shot in the dark with a shakycam.
Most of the budget was spend on this episode.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 15:29:42
May 13 2019 15:29 GMT
#35622
On May 14 2019 00:10 Sbrubbles wrote:
How's about a little poll:

Poll: Who will kill Dany in the last episode?

Jon (12)
 
40%

Arya (10)
 
33%

Tyrion (6)
 
20%

Other (1)
 
3%

Dany lives (1)
 
3%

30 total votes

Your vote: Who will kill Dany in the last episode?

(Vote): Arya
(Vote): Jon
(Vote): Tyrion
(Vote): Other
(Vote): Dany lives



I'd put my money on Tyrion, but that's only if she doesn't execute him in the first 5 minutes for releasing Jaime. One of Tyrion/Jon will burn for sure.


Gotta put Cersei for the long shot. With these writers no body = not dead. Her odds of surviving that rockfall are greater than Jaime/Brienne/Jon getting out of some of the wight piles in the Battle of Winterfell, imo.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 13 2019 15:38 GMT
#35623
On May 14 2019 00:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
The real losers of this episode are the Iron Bank investment vehicle consultants. The spreadsheets said backing Cersei was the best option. But they failed to research that a dragon could delete their army in a second.

Thus began the Dragon Insurance Mutual of Braavos.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
May 13 2019 15:49 GMT
#35624
the episode was as good as it could have been, given the writing quality and there only being one episode left now. it was obvious that in this episode cersei would lose, after they dramatically "evened" out the odds last episodes with blink stalkers sniping a dragon, and that dany would go mad and slaughter a bunch of innocents

so yes, euron's ships with cloaking tech, homing missiles, and teleportations, stop working, and dany fries all of them to death. dany, whose been hinted at being a bad guy, suddenly goes full bad guy. it was obvious they were going to do it, its just that there was no way it could've been believable in one episode. they killed varys, but not surprising how dirty they did littlefinger, and i'm pretty sure tyrion is going to be executed after having been so useless all these seasons.

i am goign to keep watching because i am curious:
will arya kill dany BEFORE dany kills jon snow? or after
will tyrion get to do anything useful before he just gets killed off?
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
May 13 2019 15:56 GMT
#35625
The more I think about the episode the more disappointed and sad I get.


I can't believe Jamie said 'ive never much cared for innocents' in his farewell to Tyrion. The guy broke oath and stabbed a fucking KING to death to prevent the loss of innocent life, a move that set his entire story arch into action lol. What a clown show.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 15:59:08
May 13 2019 15:57 GMT
#35626
On May 14 2019 00:49 fishjie wrote:
the episode was as good as it could have been, given the writing quality and there only being one episode left now. it was obvious that in this episode cersei would lose, after they dramatically "evened" out the odds last episodes with blink stalkers sniping a dragon, and that dany would go mad and slaughter a bunch of innocents

so yes, euron's ships with cloaking tech, homing missiles, and teleportations, stop working, and dany fries all of them to death. dany, whose been hinted at being a bad guy, suddenly goes full bad guy. it was obvious they were going to do it, its just that there was no way it could've been believable in one episode. they killed varys, but not surprising how dirty they did littlefinger, and i'm pretty sure tyrion is going to be executed after having been so useless all these seasons.

i am goign to keep watching because i am curious:
will arya kill dany BEFORE dany kills jon snow? or after
will tyrion get to do anything useful before he just gets killed off?


It's amazing how much the execution of Littlefinger, Varys, and (soon) Tyrion is just the show blatantly saying they don't know or care to do intrigue & dialogue anymore.
Logo
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17257 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 16:01:15
May 13 2019 16:00 GMT
#35627
I wonder how many people are actually super hyped for Arya. The amount of pointless screen time she's getting just wading through death and destruction in the city is staggering. For me personally it did absolutely nothing except annoying me that I didn't fast-forward the moments. I have 0 emotional attachment to her character (and why would I have any?) and the writers somehow thought that everyone is team-Arya and putting her in danger would make people feel dread for her? I was just hoping she'd die by dragon fire or trampled by the scared mob - that would at least be a nice throwback to the early seasons of the show and a nice touch.

I liked Sandor quite a bit but the entire CleganeBowl and his end didn't really live up to the hype and also felt pointless.

Most of the characters do uncharacteristic things in this episode. Thankfully next week they'll wrap it all up and I'll be able to forget all about this show.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
May 13 2019 16:05 GMT
#35628
On May 13 2019 22:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2019 20:17 Pr0wler wrote:
On May 13 2019 19:43 Warri wrote:
Im also fine with Dany going mad storywise, it has been foreshadowed and talked about long ago, but i dont like how it went down in the end. The big problem i see is that after all this (before the bell) the audience still roots for her and Cersei is still the worst person imaginable, no nuances. Until that point the worst thing Dany did was burn the Tarlys, but they were enemies so you dont think too much of it. That makes her snapping to the bells kind of random and hard to accept what just happened. Now you cant root for the character you loved anymore.

I don't think that Dany snapped, because of the bells and I don't know why so many people think that. What I saw was that she was already mad before the battle. She lost everything and in her eyes everyone betrayed her. And that turned her insane. During the bells I saw her being conflicted. On one hand she really wants to light the whole place up, on the other she realizes how wrong is that, because her enemy surrendered.


The problem with this "madness" is that there was no setting for it prior to this.

People try to quote prior seasons, but at no point has Dany displayed this "madness". Her father was referred to as mad because he was extremely paranoid and probably mentally ill due to several horrible events in his life in rapid succession. We're talking psychiatric illness mad, not "cold, callous, and brutal" mad. Dany has never once displayed any of this. Everything that Arienne and others refer to is just her being brash, immature, willful, or otherwise just kind of angry. The whole idea about it being in "her blood" and "her fate" to go mad is pretty lazy at best. The show has just simplified it to basically running in her family, which is half-assed writing that doesn't address the fact that the source material shows the Mad King going mad because of a whole slew of events, including being trapped in a dungeon for 6 months by one of his subjects.

So all in all, in about 1 full episode's worth of time she suddenly goes "mad". It's rushed and poorly executed.

Also, as others have mentioned, every other character is just stupid or a caricature of their original selves. Both Tyrion and Varys consistently act like idiots when they've been the smartest people in the show for years and years, Jaime returning to King's Landing is patently ridiculous, and Grey Worm being OK will killing innocents is completely out of character.

Show nested quote +
Maybe that's just it. Maybe the message here is that when push comes to shove, even the most ideologically driven become hypocrites and will do anything for power. Power corrupts, no "madness" required. That's a GRRM move though, and I don't think the show writers are clever enough for this.

To be real, though, the whole "break the chains" this was always bs to begin with. It's a vague and meaningless phrase. The only non-meaningless interpretation is that she was going there to end feudalism and absolutism, and that was never on the table. She was going to establish herself as queen.


The "Breaker of Chains" title refers to her ending slavery, which she was very explicitly against since the beginning of the series.

Well they are kind of in a hurry , so I guess you are right.
She was already a tyrant. The way from "I will burn everyone, who doesn't bend the knee" to "I will burn everyone." is not that long. A couple of betrayals here and there, the death of people(and dragons) close to her and I can totally see her snapping. Remember that her original plan was to burn everything. Well, she returned to that plan after everyone betrayed her or died. Maybe it's actual madness, maybe it's just desperation and sorrow.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 16:11:08
May 13 2019 16:07 GMT
#35629
On May 14 2019 00:56 crms wrote:
The more I think about the episode the more disappointed and sad I get.


I can't believe Jamie said 'ive never much cared for innocents' in his farewell to Tyrion. The guy broke oath and stabbed a fucking KING to death to prevent the loss of innocent life, a move that set his entire story arch into action lol. What a clown show.


Jaime's story turned from an arc into a circle in the span of 1.5 episodes. Once a dick, always a dick I guess. Maybe Cersei is just that much better at sex than Brienne.

On May 14 2019 01:05 Pr0wler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2019 22:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On May 13 2019 20:17 Pr0wler wrote:
On May 13 2019 19:43 Warri wrote:
Im also fine with Dany going mad storywise, it has been foreshadowed and talked about long ago, but i dont like how it went down in the end. The big problem i see is that after all this (before the bell) the audience still roots for her and Cersei is still the worst person imaginable, no nuances. Until that point the worst thing Dany did was burn the Tarlys, but they were enemies so you dont think too much of it. That makes her snapping to the bells kind of random and hard to accept what just happened. Now you cant root for the character you loved anymore.

I don't think that Dany snapped, because of the bells and I don't know why so many people think that. What I saw was that she was already mad before the battle. She lost everything and in her eyes everyone betrayed her. And that turned her insane. During the bells I saw her being conflicted. On one hand she really wants to light the whole place up, on the other she realizes how wrong is that, because her enemy surrendered.


The problem with this "madness" is that there was no setting for it prior to this.

People try to quote prior seasons, but at no point has Dany displayed this "madness". Her father was referred to as mad because he was extremely paranoid and probably mentally ill due to several horrible events in his life in rapid succession. We're talking psychiatric illness mad, not "cold, callous, and brutal" mad. Dany has never once displayed any of this. Everything that Arienne and others refer to is just her being brash, immature, willful, or otherwise just kind of angry. The whole idea about it being in "her blood" and "her fate" to go mad is pretty lazy at best. The show has just simplified it to basically running in her family, which is half-assed writing that doesn't address the fact that the source material shows the Mad King going mad because of a whole slew of events, including being trapped in a dungeon for 6 months by one of his subjects.

So all in all, in about 1 full episode's worth of time she suddenly goes "mad". It's rushed and poorly executed.

Also, as others have mentioned, every other character is just stupid or a caricature of their original selves. Both Tyrion and Varys consistently act like idiots when they've been the smartest people in the show for years and years, Jaime returning to King's Landing is patently ridiculous, and Grey Worm being OK will killing innocents is completely out of character.

Maybe that's just it. Maybe the message here is that when push comes to shove, even the most ideologically driven become hypocrites and will do anything for power. Power corrupts, no "madness" required. That's a GRRM move though, and I don't think the show writers are clever enough for this.

To be real, though, the whole "break the chains" this was always bs to begin with. It's a vague and meaningless phrase. The only non-meaningless interpretation is that she was going there to end feudalism and absolutism, and that was never on the table. She was going to establish herself as queen.


The "Breaker of Chains" title refers to her ending slavery, which she was very explicitly against since the beginning of the series.

Well they are kind of in a hurry , so I guess you are right.
She was already a tyrant. The way from "I will burn everyone, who doesn't bend the knee" to "I will burn everyone." is not that long. A couple of betrayals here and there, the death of people(and dragons) close to her and I can totally see her snapping. Remember that her original plan was to burn everything. Well, she returned to that plan after everyone betrayed her or died. Maybe it's actual madness, maybe it's just desperation and sorrow.


I never got the sense her original plan was literally "burn down all of King's Landing." Burn the Red Keep, maybe, "kill indiscriminately until they surrender," maybe, but not "kill all innocent people even after they surrender." That's what was really jarring about her break for me, she didn't even fly up and torch Cersei herself (instead rocks fell and we never saw a body).
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 16:09:44
May 13 2019 16:08 GMT
#35630
I thought Arya was great this episode. She's still suffering from her character in season 7/8 up to this point being bad, but this is Arya's character at her best. Sure the "danger" was totally fake, there was 0% chance of Arya death, but she gives us that look into the city and actually has some of the Arya vulnerability rather than super soldier that made us like her in the first place.

She also has one of the rare moments of character development in the entire season, as she's convinced to abandon her revenge plot.

Dieing due to dragon fire or trampling would be the exact opposite of early seasons of the show. I don't really know why everyone is convinced the early seasons of the show just tossed out characters randomly. That literally never happens until you get to Selmy/Dorne where the show starts trying to trim the cast for the sake of time.
Logo
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28090 Posts
May 13 2019 16:08 GMT
#35631
On May 14 2019 00:56 crms wrote:
The more I think about the episode the more disappointed and sad I get.


I can't believe Jamie said 'ive never much cared for innocents' in his farewell to Tyrion. The guy broke oath and stabbed a fucking KING to death to prevent the loss of innocent life, a move that set his entire story arch into action lol. What a clown show.

Remember when Bran let him live because he said he would be useful later LOL.

He didn’t really do anything in the NK siege except kill some wights (and considering he’s a cripple his kill count was probably on the low end). I guess he killed Euron, but he had already lost his fleet so he was useless. Bran literally let him live just so he could betray them one more time...
Administrator
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 16:11:23
May 13 2019 16:10 GMT
#35632
I liked how Arya went 'come with me! We are not safe here in this sheltered spot, run on the street with me' and then that person gets killed 10 seconds later for running on the streets
Neosteel Enthusiast
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 18:51:37
May 13 2019 16:11 GMT
#35633
In my heart of hearts dany wont die just leave westeros with dragon never to be seen again and there will be no king. Also in my head the most basic fan pandering possible would be arya/jon kills dany, jon becomes king then says naw just because they also need to fill an hour.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 16:19:00
May 13 2019 16:18 GMT
#35634
Ok, so what if Dany end up on the throne, Jon goes back to the North and Arya kills her a decade or more later? We get a nice fast forward 10-15 years, catch up a little bit and then face-mask murder?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21689 Posts
May 13 2019 16:21 GMT
#35635
On May 14 2019 01:18 Plansix wrote:
Ok, so what if Dany end up on the throne, Jon goes back to the North and Arya kills her a decade or more later? We get a nice fast forward 10-15 years, catch up a little bit and then face-mask murder?
Sound terrible but probably better then what the actual ending will be.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4116 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 16:33:28
May 13 2019 16:32 GMT
#35636
Few weeks ago, there was a plot leakage for the last 3 episodes, I skimmed scanned through it and if I am not mistaken most of it came true for episodes 4&5 so whoever is interested can find it on google and see how dany and the iron throne will end (assuming it is true). It will be quite an awkward ending if it goes that way, but for me its not the story that is the problem, but the execution, the inconsistency and the ill justification of the actions and the story is what kills it for me.
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 13 2019 16:33 GMT
#35637
On May 14 2019 01:21 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2019 01:18 Plansix wrote:
Ok, so what if Dany end up on the throne, Jon goes back to the North and Arya kills her a decade or more later? We get a nice fast forward 10-15 years, catch up a little bit and then face-mask murder?
Sound terrible but probably better then what the actual ending will be.

To make it not feel rush and terrible, I need to rewind back to hardhome and remove the night king as a concept. Or to make his master plan to bring down the wall and let the long night slowly seep across the 7 Kingdoms. Right now we are just speed running the plot because the show runners and actors want to move on.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
karazax
Profile Joined May 2010
United States3737 Posts
May 13 2019 16:35 GMT
#35638
On May 14 2019 01:08 Logo wrote:
Dieing due to dragon fire or trampling would be the exact opposite of early seasons of the show. I don't really know why everyone is convinced the early seasons of the show just tossed out characters randomly. That literally never happens until you get to Selmy/Dorne where the show starts trying to trim the cast for the sake of time.


It's not that characters were killed off randomly in earlier seasons, it's more that if they didn't routinely get put in situations where death was the only realistic outcome, and then come away unscathed.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-13 16:36:59
May 13 2019 16:36 GMT
#35639
On May 14 2019 01:32 M2 wrote:
Few weeks ago, there was a plot leakage for the last 3 episodes, I skimmed scanned through it and if I am not mistaken most of it came true for episodes 4&5 so whoever is interested can find it on google and see how dany and the iron throne will end (assuming it is true). It will be quite an awkward ending if it goes that way, but for me its not the story that is the problem, but the execution, the inconsistency and the ill justification of the actions and the story is what kills it for me.


Yeah most of the main story beats have been fine, even this season, it's just everything below that turns to ash when you look at it with anything fresher than a distant memory of the previous episodes.

Sometimes I feel like long running TV shows get a pass for sloppiness just by having people kind of forget the details of the previous seasons.

On May 14 2019 01:35 karazax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2019 01:08 Logo wrote:
Dieing due to dragon fire or trampling would be the exact opposite of early seasons of the show. I don't really know why everyone is convinced the early seasons of the show just tossed out characters randomly. That literally never happens until you get to Selmy/Dorne where the show starts trying to trim the cast for the sake of time.


It's not that characters were killed off randomly in earlier seasons, it's more that if they didn't routinely get put in situations where death was the only realistic outcome, and then come away unscathed.



Fair enough, that's an accurate description of Arya this episode for sure.
Logo
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10656 Posts
May 13 2019 16:37 GMT
#35640
I read the leaks and I thought ep 5 was executed well. It helps having ur expectations lowered to dirt.
Skol
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