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Spoilers for the film are in this thread, read at your own peril if you have not seen the movie. No more spoiler tags from page 20 |
On December 15 2017 19:38 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 14:28 blade55555 wrote:Going to give my expert opinion. I'll put spoilers below. Overall I thought this movie was awful, 3/10, 4/10 at best. Maybe I grew out of star wars, but I thought it was pretty boring. When I watched TFA I enjoyed it, even though I was disappointed in the direction and reset. If I had the choice between watching The Phantom Menace or The Last Jedi, I would choose The Phantom Menace. The Phantom Menace was my least favorite star wars movie until this one. + Show Spoiler +
The first thing is there was way to much humor at awful times in the movie. A lot of the serious moments would throw in humor that just didn't fit the scene at all. The very beginning of the movie show cased this against the dreadnought. First he trolls the pilot One x-wing and somehow it single handily takes out all the cannons and then one bomber takes out the dreadnought. It was a lot of bombs but why were there no shields?
The subplots to this movie were down right boring. Finn and chick (don't remember her name) travel to some planet to get a hacker that can get them aboard the enemy ship to disable the light speed tracker. The only part I thought was funny/enjoyable was the little dude who put coins into BB-8 and then jumped in joy at all the money he had.
Leia in space. I actually laughed at how stupid that scene was. How did the writers think this was a good idea to have an explosion destroy the command room, Leia is floating in space and then wakes up, uses the force, flies back on board and survives. What the hell? This is one of, if not the dumbest thing I have ever seen in a star wars movie.
Luke and Rey was extremely disappointing. Luke is pretty much emo, cut himself off from the force and doesn't really train her? He tells her to reach out and explain what she feels with the force and that was the only thing he really taught her. He then dies at the end of the movie after doing a force projection. I was really hoping we'd get to see legitimate badass Luke at least once, but no. The Yoda scene also felt out of place.
Then there is Snoke. He is shown to be extremely powerful in the force, we know absolutely nothing about him and then he dies. Who was he? Where did he come from? How was he so powerful? No answers and now he's dead. I imagine we'll never know more about him.
Last thing I can think of is about the Republic itself. Three planets were destroyed (or was it 5? Can't remember off the top of my head) in the last movie, that can't be the whole Republic fleet. I know they said there were some forces in the outer rim, but now the Republic has been reduced to a handful of people? Just gone?
Easily the worst star wars movie to me and I really wish Disney had never bought Star Wars.
Well hang on now. Disney did give us Rogue One, and Star Wars Rebels. I agree with most of your points on Episode 8, but I think Disney is playing a longer game with the franchise than just their new trilogy.
Rogue one was great but is it worth the destruction of the EU story lines for the new terrible trilogy I would say probably not. Disney should have at least used the aftermath of the return of the jedi from the EU to give a base to their new trilogy.
If Disney went up to the Pellaeon-Gavrisom treaty and then started fresh creating a new big bad from the Unknown regions (seeing as thats where the first order comes from anyway) instead of the Yuuzhan Vong after say 15 years of peace with the empire to get roughly the right ages for the main characters. Then you have a starting point that makes sense, all the old trilogy characters still around, you keep the most loved parts of the EU (Thrawn, Mara Jade, Rogue Squadron etc) and you have a new generation of heroes in Jacen, Jaina, Anakin Solo and potentially Ben Skywalker.
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I was also rooting for the Jacen Solo trilogy, alas.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Rogue One, IMO, is a bit oversold. It was a good standalone movie that I watched multiple times and enjoyed, but it had kind of mediocre throwaway characters that were actually thrown away. Rebels is a little kids show with too many feel-good cliches and otherwise unimpressive plots, and while it does have its moments it's mostly just a cartoon. None of that seems to be "Disney has a longer game in play." Well, of course the game is to sell stuff based on the franchise but it's not exactly a game of high-quality creations at any rate. The movies are really the best of it all.
But with regards to the EU, it kind of had to go. No one can tell too great of a story when they're constrained by a dependence on making sure that they also don't contradict any source material, and man did the EU get clunky and filled with utter crap once in a while. The Thrawn stories were the only ones I really missed, even though at the time I enjoyed quite a few EU creations. It needed to be done as a clean slate project, though; there was no other way to tell a reasonable new story.
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Ok, if you haven't seen the movie please DO NOT click on this link.
If you have seen the movie, a bit of alternative music to this moment, turns it into pure hilarious awesomeness.
+ Show Spoiler +
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
No but really that scene was pretty damn horribly conceived and should have never happened.
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On December 16 2017 01:35 LegalLord wrote:
Rogue One, IMO, is a bit oversold. It was a good standalone movie that I watched multiple times and enjoyed, but it had kind of mediocre throwaway characters that were actually thrown away. Rebels is a little kids show with too many feel-good cliches and otherwise unimpressive plots, and while it does have its moments it's mostly just a cartoon. None of that seems to be "Disney has a longer game in play." Well, of course the game is to sell stuff based on the franchise but it's not exactly a game of high-quality creations at any rate. The movies are really the best of it all.
But with regards to the EU, it kind of had to go. No one can tell too great of a story when they're constrained by a dependence on making sure that they also don't contradict any source material, and man did the EU get clunky and filled with utter crap once in a while. The Thrawn stories were the only ones I really missed, even though at the time I enjoyed quite a few EU creations. It needed to be done as a clean slate project, though; there was no other way to tell a reasonable new story.
They could have stuck with the basic premises of the EU and take a George Lucas approach in terms of if anything is contradicted the film is always correct. The Yuuzhan Vong and the 365 trillion deaths they caused probably had to go but not everything especially as it seems Disney can't actually write a good star wars story they need a story to be built already like in Rogue One.
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On December 15 2017 19:38 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 14:28 blade55555 wrote:Going to give my expert opinion. I'll put spoilers below. Overall I thought this movie was awful, 3/10, 4/10 at best. Maybe I grew out of star wars, but I thought it was pretty boring. When I watched TFA I enjoyed it, even though I was disappointed in the direction and reset. If I had the choice between watching The Phantom Menace or The Last Jedi, I would choose The Phantom Menace. The Phantom Menace was my least favorite star wars movie until this one. + Show Spoiler +
The first thing is there was way to much humor at awful times in the movie. A lot of the serious moments would throw in humor that just didn't fit the scene at all. The very beginning of the movie show cased this against the dreadnought. First he trolls the pilot One x-wing and somehow it single handily takes out all the cannons and then one bomber takes out the dreadnought. It was a lot of bombs but why were there no shields?
The subplots to this movie were down right boring. Finn and chick (don't remember her name) travel to some planet to get a hacker that can get them aboard the enemy ship to disable the light speed tracker. The only part I thought was funny/enjoyable was the little dude who put coins into BB-8 and then jumped in joy at all the money he had.
Leia in space. I actually laughed at how stupid that scene was. How did the writers think this was a good idea to have an explosion destroy the command room, Leia is floating in space and then wakes up, uses the force, flies back on board and survives. What the hell? This is one of, if not the dumbest thing I have ever seen in a star wars movie.
Luke and Rey was extremely disappointing. Luke is pretty much emo, cut himself off from the force and doesn't really train her? He tells her to reach out and explain what she feels with the force and that was the only thing he really taught her. He then dies at the end of the movie after doing a force projection. I was really hoping we'd get to see legitimate badass Luke at least once, but no. The Yoda scene also felt out of place.
Then there is Snoke. He is shown to be extremely powerful in the force, we know absolutely nothing about him and then he dies. Who was he? Where did he come from? How was he so powerful? No answers and now he's dead. I imagine we'll never know more about him.
Last thing I can think of is about the Republic itself. Three planets were destroyed (or was it 5? Can't remember off the top of my head) in the last movie, that can't be the whole Republic fleet. I know they said there were some forces in the outer rim, but now the Republic has been reduced to a handful of people? Just gone?
Easily the worst star wars movie to me and I really wish Disney had never bought Star Wars.
Well hang on now. Disney did give us Rogue One, and Star Wars Rebels. I agree with most of your points on Episode 8, but I think Disney is playing a longer game with the franchise than just their new trilogy.
I liked Rogue One and Star Wars Rebels is pretty good, but I still wish Disney hadn't bought them. I'd still be getting my books, The Clone Wars would have had an actual ending and then moved on to another show with a bigger budget than what Disney has brought us so far.
I do believe Disney is funding a live action TV show and hopefully that turns out to be cool, but only time will tell on that one.
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On December 16 2017 03:54 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 19:38 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 15 2017 14:28 blade55555 wrote:Going to give my expert opinion. I'll put spoilers below. Overall I thought this movie was awful, 3/10, 4/10 at best. Maybe I grew out of star wars, but I thought it was pretty boring. When I watched TFA I enjoyed it, even though I was disappointed in the direction and reset. If I had the choice between watching The Phantom Menace or The Last Jedi, I would choose The Phantom Menace. The Phantom Menace was my least favorite star wars movie until this one. + Show Spoiler +
The first thing is there was way to much humor at awful times in the movie. A lot of the serious moments would throw in humor that just didn't fit the scene at all. The very beginning of the movie show cased this against the dreadnought. First he trolls the pilot One x-wing and somehow it single handily takes out all the cannons and then one bomber takes out the dreadnought. It was a lot of bombs but why were there no shields?
The subplots to this movie were down right boring. Finn and chick (don't remember her name) travel to some planet to get a hacker that can get them aboard the enemy ship to disable the light speed tracker. The only part I thought was funny/enjoyable was the little dude who put coins into BB-8 and then jumped in joy at all the money he had.
Leia in space. I actually laughed at how stupid that scene was. How did the writers think this was a good idea to have an explosion destroy the command room, Leia is floating in space and then wakes up, uses the force, flies back on board and survives. What the hell? This is one of, if not the dumbest thing I have ever seen in a star wars movie.
Luke and Rey was extremely disappointing. Luke is pretty much emo, cut himself off from the force and doesn't really train her? He tells her to reach out and explain what she feels with the force and that was the only thing he really taught her. He then dies at the end of the movie after doing a force projection. I was really hoping we'd get to see legitimate badass Luke at least once, but no. The Yoda scene also felt out of place.
Then there is Snoke. He is shown to be extremely powerful in the force, we know absolutely nothing about him and then he dies. Who was he? Where did he come from? How was he so powerful? No answers and now he's dead. I imagine we'll never know more about him.
Last thing I can think of is about the Republic itself. Three planets were destroyed (or was it 5? Can't remember off the top of my head) in the last movie, that can't be the whole Republic fleet. I know they said there were some forces in the outer rim, but now the Republic has been reduced to a handful of people? Just gone?
Easily the worst star wars movie to me and I really wish Disney had never bought Star Wars.
Well hang on now. Disney did give us Rogue One, and Star Wars Rebels. I agree with most of your points on Episode 8, but I think Disney is playing a longer game with the franchise than just their new trilogy. I liked Rogue One and Star Wars Rebels is pretty good, but I still wish Disney hadn't bought them. I'd still be getting my books, The Clone Wars would have had an actual ending and then moved on to another show with a bigger budget than what Disney has brought us so far. I do believe Disney is funding a live action TV show and hopefully that turns out to be cool, but only time will tell on that one.
I have a bit of inside info. Their upcoming new show will be animated. No word that I've heard on a live action show in the works.
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I like Rebels, but RO was a generic action and sci fiction movie for me.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
If Disney hadn’t bought Lucasfilms then I would have not watched a few new movies and that’s about it. Really, Star Wars didn’t need a “revival” but it’s not worse for the necromancy. And a few good things did come of it.
I personally didn’t hate this movie either. Some say it was ruined by too much Disney interference but really it’s mostly just a decent movie with problems. Like everything in the new Star Wars, of which people like something at the very least.
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On December 16 2017 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 03:54 blade55555 wrote:On December 15 2017 19:38 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 15 2017 14:28 blade55555 wrote:Going to give my expert opinion. I'll put spoilers below. Overall I thought this movie was awful, 3/10, 4/10 at best. Maybe I grew out of star wars, but I thought it was pretty boring. When I watched TFA I enjoyed it, even though I was disappointed in the direction and reset. If I had the choice between watching The Phantom Menace or The Last Jedi, I would choose The Phantom Menace. The Phantom Menace was my least favorite star wars movie until this one. + Show Spoiler +
The first thing is there was way to much humor at awful times in the movie. A lot of the serious moments would throw in humor that just didn't fit the scene at all. The very beginning of the movie show cased this against the dreadnought. First he trolls the pilot One x-wing and somehow it single handily takes out all the cannons and then one bomber takes out the dreadnought. It was a lot of bombs but why were there no shields?
The subplots to this movie were down right boring. Finn and chick (don't remember her name) travel to some planet to get a hacker that can get them aboard the enemy ship to disable the light speed tracker. The only part I thought was funny/enjoyable was the little dude who put coins into BB-8 and then jumped in joy at all the money he had.
Leia in space. I actually laughed at how stupid that scene was. How did the writers think this was a good idea to have an explosion destroy the command room, Leia is floating in space and then wakes up, uses the force, flies back on board and survives. What the hell? This is one of, if not the dumbest thing I have ever seen in a star wars movie.
Luke and Rey was extremely disappointing. Luke is pretty much emo, cut himself off from the force and doesn't really train her? He tells her to reach out and explain what she feels with the force and that was the only thing he really taught her. He then dies at the end of the movie after doing a force projection. I was really hoping we'd get to see legitimate badass Luke at least once, but no. The Yoda scene also felt out of place.
Then there is Snoke. He is shown to be extremely powerful in the force, we know absolutely nothing about him and then he dies. Who was he? Where did he come from? How was he so powerful? No answers and now he's dead. I imagine we'll never know more about him.
Last thing I can think of is about the Republic itself. Three planets were destroyed (or was it 5? Can't remember off the top of my head) in the last movie, that can't be the whole Republic fleet. I know they said there were some forces in the outer rim, but now the Republic has been reduced to a handful of people? Just gone?
Easily the worst star wars movie to me and I really wish Disney had never bought Star Wars.
Well hang on now. Disney did give us Rogue One, and Star Wars Rebels. I agree with most of your points on Episode 8, but I think Disney is playing a longer game with the franchise than just their new trilogy. I liked Rogue One and Star Wars Rebels is pretty good, but I still wish Disney hadn't bought them. I'd still be getting my books, The Clone Wars would have had an actual ending and then moved on to another show with a bigger budget than what Disney has brought us so far. I do believe Disney is funding a live action TV show and hopefully that turns out to be cool, but only time will tell on that one. I have a bit of inside info. Their upcoming new show will be animated. No word that I've heard on a live action show in the works.
Ah darn, I swore I read there was a live action one in the works, one day! Thanks for the info.
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You people are a bunch of negative nancies. I really liked the movie. First impressions put it above RotJ, below Empire. And that means it's the second best SW movie so far.
+ Show Spoiler +
The good:
- Kylo Ren. I really enjoyed his coming of age, the whole conflict triangle between Ren, Rey and Luke, and how Snoke had actually set that up.
- Poe Dameron. Was a rather throwaway ace pilot in TFA, but I really like the role they found for him. Sure, taking out a dreadnought almost singlehandedly was a bit dumb, but then again, this is the universe that has people build Death Stars with a fatal flaw that just needs a well piloted X-Wing to get to.
- General production. A++ for all the choreography, dogfights and absolutely stunning visuals.
- The resolution of the two main fan theories. Sure, I am a bit disappointed that there isn't some mystery Palpatine or Kenobi relative who dumped Rey on Jakku, or that Snoke isn't Darth Plagueis the Resurrected or something. But in the long run this is a better and more coherent plot point: there aren't some royal families in the universe who are strong in the force. It can come out in anybody, including some nobody from nobody parents on some nowhere planet, as in Rey, or in some opportunistic two-bit Palpatine wannabe who was just as easily disposed of as he arose.
The bad:
- Phasma. Was a dumb character in TFA. Is still a dumb character. Waste of a good actress.
- Leia surviving. The movie felt very much like a changing of the guard. Luke dieing was beautiful. But why is Leia still around? Seems like they painted themselves into a corner where they need to CGI her in Ep 9, which just seems pointless.
- BB8 is frigging OP as fuck. It's R2 in prequel levels and there was no need for it. He's an astromech. He can open doors and copilot spaceships. WTF with taking out 6 prison guards and hijacking an AT ST?!
The ugly:
- Lol. Leia flying through space.
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28079 Posts
A lot of people just have really high expectations tbh. I doubt it's truly bad, although I've seen more negative than positive opinions so far. With that being said only the diehards have seen it already and it's easy to piss them off 
I'm going tomorrow night so I'll find out for myself. My expectations are kind of in the middle.
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TFA is a better movie, but damn, some of the scenes in TLJ are just the absolute best.
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On December 16 2017 08:05 TheEmulator wrote:A lot of people just have really high expectations tbh. I doubt it's truly bad, although I've seen more negative than positive opinions so far. With that being said only the diehards have seen it already and it's easy to piss them off I'm going tomorrow night so I'll find out for myself. My expectations are kind of in the middle.
this is the reason i dont check the walking dead thread,is just people complaining and complaining,i ask myself how can they dont get tired of that,u re basically watching a tvshow to feel bad and complain it over and over on the forums lol,and this thread is a bit of that,i think sometimes is better to avoid reviews forums etc.i loved the movie will watch it again tomorrow.
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I don't see how so many people are OK with the fact + Show Spoiler +that these movies are complete recycled rip offs of the original trilogy.
Say what you want about the prequels, but they at least told a different story from the original trilogy and their characters at least felt like they had actual personality instead of just being replacement cut outs for original characters.
Am I a negative nancy for hating the fact that these movies are basically remakes?
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On December 16 2017 08:05 TheEmulator wrote:A lot of people just have really high expectations tbh. I doubt it's truly bad, although I've seen more negative than positive opinions so far. With that being said only the diehards have seen it already and it's easy to piss them off I'm going tomorrow night so I'll find out for myself. My expectations are kind of in the middle.
I feel like opinions are split right down the middle, just as with TFA. I think if you hated TFA, you're going to hate TLJ for all the same reasons, and if you liked TFA, you're going to like TLJ.
I loved TFA, and I thought TLJ was equally amazing. It had flaws, but over all, it was visually dazzling, told an entertaining yarn and a breakneck pace, and deftly wove in action, humor, and a surprising amount of narrative heft.
On December 16 2017 10:05 Vindicare605 wrote:I don't see how so many people are OK with the fact + Show Spoiler +that these movies are complete recycled rip offs of the original trilogy.
Say what you want about the prequels, but they at least told a different story from the original trilogy and their characters at least felt like they had actual personality instead of just being replacement cut outs for original characters.
Am I a negative nancy for hating the fact that these movies are basically remakes?
+ Show Spoiler +I think this is a very weak criticism for this movie. The middle chapter was dark in the original trilogy, and it was dark in this one. That's pretty much where the similarity ends, unless having a ground battle involving AT-ATs magically makes them the same movie.
Telling a different story doesn't interest me at all when the story is dumb and convoluted and the movies are bad. I think the new trilogy characters are 100% better than anything in the prequels, with only the possible exception of Maul.
None of the prequel characters had any personality. They all woodenly walked around and delivered monotone diatribes to each other. Nobody in any prequel showed anything that could be considered a human emotion.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, I also can't agree with the criticism that the movie is derivative because it really wasn't. The problems I had I outlined already. Though the "Leia in space" scene is just completely and utterly indefensible and whoever made it needs to get smacked for it. I mean I liked the movie overall but holy fuck that scene was so very bad and cringey and the new generation's version of the sand speech in Ep 2.
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+ Show Spoiler +i hated the humour and jokes. still don't feel much attachment to any of the new main characters after 2 movies with them.
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On December 16 2017 11:08 GeneralStan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 08:05 TheEmulator wrote:A lot of people just have really high expectations tbh. I doubt it's truly bad, although I've seen more negative than positive opinions so far. With that being said only the diehards have seen it already and it's easy to piss them off I'm going tomorrow night so I'll find out for myself. My expectations are kind of in the middle. I feel like opinions are split right down the middle, just as with TFA. I think if you hated TFA, you're going to hate TLJ for all the same reasons, and if you liked TFA, you're going to like TLJ. I loved TFA, and I thought TLJ was equally amazing. It had flaws, but over all, it was visually dazzling, told an entertaining yarn and a breakneck pace, and deftly wove in action, humor, and a surprising amount of narrative heft. Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 10:05 Vindicare605 wrote:I don't see how so many people are OK with the fact + Show Spoiler +that these movies are complete recycled rip offs of the original trilogy.
Say what you want about the prequels, but they at least told a different story from the original trilogy and their characters at least felt like they had actual personality instead of just being replacement cut outs for original characters.
Am I a negative nancy for hating the fact that these movies are basically remakes? + Show Spoiler +I think this is a very weak criticism for this movie. The middle chapter was dark in the original trilogy, and it was dark in this one. That's pretty much where the similarity ends, unless having a ground battle involving AT-ATs magically makes them the same movie.
Telling a different story doesn't interest me at all when the story is dumb and convoluted and the movies are bad. I think the new trilogy characters are 100% better than anything in the prequels, with only the possible exception of Maul.
None of the prequel characters had any personality. They all woodenly walked around and delivered monotone diatribes to each other. Nobody in any prequel showed anything that could be considered a human emotion.
Oh for crying out loud.
+ Show Spoiler + Just look at how the confrontation with Snoke actually went down. Rey arrives willingly in front of Kylo, she is taken in cuffs to see Snoke sitting on a throne, Snoke releases her bindings and takes her light saber and puts it down LITERALLY ON THE SAME ARM REST AS THE EMPEROR, Snoke does a bunch of monologuing about how awesome of a bad guy he is while showing her how his awesome weapon is destroying the Rebel/Resistance fleet, he shows Rey how powerful with the Force he is and how under his control Kylo Ren is, and just at the apex of his triumph, Kylo kills him.
That entire scene is literally copy pasted from Return of the Jedi, the only thing different about it is the lack of force lightning and the presence of the Imperial Guards. Except instead of feeling like the dramatic climax that has been anticipated and built up to for 2 movies like Return was, it was meant to be a sudden shock moment that solidified Kylo as a chief bad guy, except because it was literally the same scene as Return, that shock moment was replaced with a "WTF really Disney?" moment.
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EPT
