Otherwise, I'd say that even something like the Ep 5 -> Ep 6 fleet growth is fairly jarring.
I don't think so- There's a clear progression. IV the Rebellion consists of a base and a bunch of snub fighters (so far as we are shown, though there's no limiting factor for branches of rebel cells.) V opens with a new sort of fighter, but in the end we see that all those transports ships and it turns out they have a small fleet now. Although they are pushed out into space- the existence of small capitals ships- the Nebulon-B Frigate creates the feeling of progression.
Then once Han is rescued we find the Rebellion is snowballing support- even bigger capital ships, aliens are joining in large numbers (Both the Mon Calamari seen on screen and the Bothans referenced offscreen.) Plus the introduction of more civies in administrative roles- the Rebellion is bigger. But even still, it's not such a large fleet- I count four star cruisers, one or two frigates, a bunch of blockade runners and slew of those transports ships (for some reason). Plus the Original never made the mistake of saying 'this is all there is'- it's therefore easy to assume there are other branches of the Rebellion that are making moves and have consolidated everything together in a do or die mission.
TLJ made the mistake of limiting what the Resistance was. Holdo: "There are four hundred of us... on three ships. We're the very last of the Resistance. But we're not alone. In every corner of the galaxy... the downtrodden and oppressed know our symbol... and they put their hope in it."
So it's clear- this is the last. There's no other cells kicking around. No Procurement and Supply, no Reconnoiter, no other Resistance ships hiding around- these are the last- and by the end every single ship is destroyed other than the Falcon and they're left with a dozen. That's the whole Resistance
And those allies?
When the time comes- the Black Arrow is sent and Rohan does not ride. Helm's horn is sounded but Gandalf and Erkenbrand to not appear with 3000 on foot.
Instead "They've heard us, but no one's coming."
So to suddenly have a giant fleet makes zero sense. Destroying a third Death Star (not to mention the Death Star's attack in the first place) ought to have rallied the galaxy- but it didn't. Then blowing up the siege ship and Snoke's capital ship (and Snoke) ought to have rallied the galaxy- but even that couldn't convince them. Luke dying is an even worse reason for the galaxy to join. If they gave up before, there's no reason to join now when they didn't for reasons that one hundred times better. So it doesn't follow- magic fleet- but will probably have an unconvincing handwave. Quite frankly, by the end, I thought everyone sucked and just wanted the First Order to win. Cheering for Lawful Stupid isn't that much fun. Kill 'em and start over with a more competent rebellion.
I don't think it's hard to imagine a source of ships, in the grand scheme of things - the galaxy is a big place, the now-dying Republic is a large organization, and there certainly must be some amount of time to allow for all this stuff to come together. A story could be, as troubling as all the Resistance faced may have been, the rest of the galaxy was too afraid to take a stand against the invincible-looking force that the First Order is, which is why no help was on the way. Years later, maybe that could all come together.
Though you would be right to note that there really isn't much setup for that. The movie seemed to suggest that all the help would come from the "downtrodden" like the children from the gambling planet, which doesn't really inspire that kind of revolution.
I'm imagining some level of retcon to Ep 8 to make all that's happening here make sense. Maybe a timelapse and a couple "oops, we said the stupid thing last movie but didn't actually mean it" admissions. Those generally make a movie worse, but I don't see too many other options, and maybe if the execution is otherwise excellent it could be pulled off. We're not even in a "we got to a really cool place in a way that makes no sense" state, from which it'd make sense to just roll with it; some level of continuity-break is necessary to fix the last movie for sure.
On October 29 2019 10:20 Wombat_NI wrote: 1. Why didn’t she tell Poe etc her plan? Ok maybe there’s the ‘there are spies on board’ to vaguely explain that, but it’s obviously not going to be him if nothing else. So there’s a mutiny because a plan that presumably he’d be down with is not revealed to him because, why?
Glaring faults with Ep 8 are not hard to come by, but this one in particular is one that I wanted to expand on. This noted problem is part of what seems like a general character assassination of Poe (and Hux gets a similar treatment, for that matter). He's blamed for deploying fighters to prevent the destruction of their retreating ship because the fighters died; I'm sure those fighters would be much appreciated if they were to have nothing left to protect. And then he's painted as reckless for taking matters into his own hands when, even in the context of what the movie eventually shows, it's clear that his superiors are playing the silly game of keeping secrets to themselves as a power play. That's not being careful to avoid spies, that's just exactly what happens when idiots get power and want to revel in their privileged access to that knowledge.
Fuck, by the standards of this movie, destroying the Death Star in Episode 4 would have been reckless because of how many fighters were destroyed in the process.
Indeed, if they’d set the ground with Poe actually being reckless and getting a lot of people killed then you can maybe take that angle that this ‘lesson’ is merited. Whereas as it’s presented one is just screaming at the screen going ‘just tell Poe damnit.’
Reminds me a bit of that infuriating comedy trope where two characters like each other, one person sees the other one in an innocent situation that looks anything but from their angle, or only hears one side of a phone conversation. Person storms off and drama ensues even though it’s ridiculous and in real life you’d be like ‘that was my mum on the phone, I can see how you got the wrong idea though!’
If I was JJ I would almost certainly have a timeskip at some point in this movie. One-two scenes with Leia, she passes away, timeskip 3-5 years and have the "not-Rebellion" built back up after success of guerrilla raids against a poorly-administered First Order. Raises stakes for the larger battles, allows them a chance, get to have some trademark JJ mystery boxes about what happened in the skip for potential EU expansion.
I don't think even 3-5 years are enough. The not-Rebellion is in the same place as the Rebellion was at the end of Episode III. Need a very large time jump and maybe a couple more movies.
Or just imitate Rian and do it all in the opening crawl. :/ First line:
There is too much shuffling going on amongst the top creatives in Disney Star Wars. The making of Solo saw the directors fired and Ron Howard redid the movie. I don't think Ron Howard has contributed to anything Star Wars since then. There are rumblings of re-shooting going on with the movie coming out in December.
so they are abandoning a Star Wars trilogy that could make them immortal legends on par with George Lucas so they can do a Netflix series? LOL. oh how the mighty have fallen.
Lucas built the Star Wars franchise like Vince Mcmahon built the WWE. Lucas built Star Wars from nothing and from the ground up. No one at Disney Star Wars has both Lucas' pedigree and Lucas' decision making power when he was in charge.
Obviously, there is a tonne of talent at Disney. Unfortunately, the people at the top are not managing the franchise and the talent properly.
Why are these guys yapping away about George Lucas in their statement of resignation? Is this a sign of back-biting and in-fighting? The proper way to do things is to resign and just shut up. This needless hyperbolic drivel about George Lucas just keeps the circus atmosphere going on at Disney Star Wars.
From what I hear about the end of Game of Thrones (and what Beinoff and Weiss have said about themselves just recently), Beinoff and Weiss bogging off is the best news yet for the Star Wars franchise. (I also was reading that they shortened Game of Thrones to work on the Star Wars trilogy... but that clearly went nowhere. I kinda wonder if B&W's stars have faded as well.) Now I'm just waiting to hear that Rian is out and I might have a little hope again. Between RJ's standalone film in the middle of a trilogy and B&W trilogy just vanishing it clearly demonstrates the lie that the Star Wars franchise is anything like the pre-planned Marvel phases. The forethought shown so far has been laughable.
Nonetheless, the Mandalorian is looking more and more interesting, so fingers crossed (hope springs eternal as they say).
IIRC RJ mentioned that there were pre-drafts for episode 8 but that he decided to ignore them. If I was JJ I would have murdered him years 10 times by now. Also we know that Disney originally intended to release a SW-movie every year and then the movies didn't work, which forced them to change plans repetitively.
@Beinoff & Weiss: For most of GoT their job was to interpret an existing work, which they did a good job at. But friends of mine stated that from the point where Martin's story started to run out the quality started dropping. The reception of the season finale definitely proves them right. So I have respect for their technical skills and ability to manage a big cast, not so much for their storywriting abilities.
“There are scenes where she’s interacting with other characters in a way that is uncanny,” states Abrams. “Hopefully, if it works, it will be an invisible thing and if you didn’t know, you would never know. But we got to tell the story with Leia that we would have told had Carrie lived. And that’s kind of incredible.”
I think we need a policy to spoiler leaks and other possible spoilers. It could really ruin it for someone who wants to experience it for themself for the first time when they watch it.
Well, if any of that is true there'll be a shitstorm like never before...
It's a click bait video made from a 4chan shitpost.
Doomcock (along with numerous other channels) has been following all the rumors, cross-referencing and trying to validate as much as possible. This shitpost is actually pretty in-line with some of the previous rumors and leaks from test screenings, that's why it's got the attention.
Nearly all the leaks are the same, the difference is in the details since there are supposedly like 6 versions floating around as the movie is not finished yet and they can't decide which ending to pick. The one posted above would probably be the worst of the ones revealed so far.
Do we have anyone from Japan here? Apparently they get to see it like a week earlier.
On November 22 2019 16:37 Sermokala wrote: I think we need a policy to spoiler leaks and other possible spoilers. It could really ruin it for someone who wants to experience it for themself for the first time when they watch it.
If you're talking about that YT video it even says spoiler on the title.
EPT
