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Ok what do we even mean with power levels at this point. I think people kinda talk past each other sometimes.
Like personally i don't care about an exact number or any multiplier stuff. But as mohdoo stated, general levels of strength should be there (and maybe are still there; i think super did it badly though in the fillers)
For example: I don't buy that any human can be reasonably close in strength to fight against any of the strong characters. It's absurd.
I could buy it with the cyborgs (maybe, though in the case of 17 it was done poorly as well simply because you have to ask yourself how he got that strong doing basically nothign compared to goku/vegeta). I can buy it with buu.
But simply being extremely vage and trying to sell me that some human (other than maybe uub as soon as he becomes relevant) could be on that general lvl? Yeah no way.
And for everyone else i really need a believable buildup as well. As i said with 17, it just isn't believable that he could be there from what we know. Same with gohan training for half an hour 
I just want a somewhat coherent story and dragonball is about fighting strength, you aren't allowed to mess that up so badly.
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Soooo If 17 could fight (or humor him) goku blue, could android 18 do so as well? Wasn't vegeta stronger than goku at the end of the goku black arc? Why does he need another time training hack next episode? Why did they choose this format for the eventual tournament? Dragonball Super is wack yo.
So many questions. But after I saw the spoilers for the next episodes.. well. Ehm, prepare to ''what the fuck'' more intensively than ever before when those episodes happen.
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On May 16 2017 00:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:Ok what do we even mean with power levels at this point. I think people kinda talk past each other sometimes. Like personally i don't care about an exact number or any multiplier stuff. But as mohdoo stated, general levels of strength should be there (and maybe are still there; i think super did it badly though in the fillers) For example: I don't buy that any human can be reasonably close in strength to fight against any of the strong characters. It's absurd. I could buy it with the cyborgs (maybe, though in the case of 17 it was done poorly as well simply because you have to ask yourself how he got that strong doing basically nothign compared to goku/vegeta). I can buy it with buu. But simply being extremely vage and trying to sell me that some human (other than maybe uub as soon as he becomes relevant) could be on that general lvl? Yeah no way. And for everyone else i really need a believable buildup as well. As i said with 17, it just isn't believable that he could be there from what we know. Same with gohan training for half an hour I just want a somewhat coherent story and dragonball is about fighting strength, you aren't allowed to mess that up so badly.
Gohan makes sense because he is just going back to where he was in the Buu saga. Mystic Gohan was much, much stronger than Vegeta and Goku at the time. Worth noting he's still weak to the point of irrelevant compared to SSB Goku. I would put Mystic Gohan on the level of Toppo.
I don't think 17 is nearly on Goku's level. The thing about the most recent episode is that it totally made 100% sense in an older version of power scaling. To me, that is a signal that these filler bullshit eps trying to hype us up for certain characters aren't actually saying they are as powerful as they appeared. 17 is likely nowhere near Goku going all out.
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Aside from Gohan powerlevels are actually pretty much how they allways were since... Namek?
Yeah, they upoed everything to stupid levels and these powerboosts are unreadonable but.
Goku 》 vegeta 》 gohan (not angry/mystic) =》 piccolo 》 rest.
Just throw the androids/freeza/ftrunks somewhere in there, they were allways just as strong as the plot needed them to be.
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Well, they made a mess of power levels by making Goku use SSJB to "keep up" with other fighters who should be weaker than his base form or roughly on par with his SSJ1 form.
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Here is to hoping the 2 female sayians turn out well.
Also my bet is that they use their wish to restore the erased universes or something lul.
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Filler episodes were always an inconsistent, stupid mess. I think we just managed to forget how dumb Garlic Jr random-saga, fake Namek, Gohan going on random dates, Goku vs Gotenks bath fight, etc., actually were because in hindsight it's not too surprising to idealize the show.
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On May 16 2017 03:18 LegalLord wrote:
Filler episodes were always an inconsistent, stupid mess. I think we just managed to forget how dumb Garlic Jr random-saga, fake Namek, Gohan going on random dates, Goku vs Gotenks bath fight, etc., actually were because in hindsight it's not too surprising to idealize the show.
Well sure but these episodes here aren't really filler though right? It just feels like it because it's done so poorly. They very clearly try to use these episodes to build up the tournament.
This isn't something completely out of canon.
DBZ wasn't perfect, but it was way better than anything super has done so far. I am hoping the tournament itself will be fun, they really need to deliver there especially because all these "filler episodes" right now are pretty bad overall.
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Honestly, the big fuckup of DBS was simply whatever the fuck the Goku Black scythe episode up to the conclusion of that arc was. Everything except that is mostly defensible even if in a roundabout sort of way.
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On May 16 2017 03:54 LegalLord wrote:
Honestly, the big fuckup of DBS was simply whatever the fuck the Goku Black scythe episode up to the conclusion of that arc was. Everything except that is mostly defensible even if in a roundabout sort of way.
I don't even consider that shit real. That entire final fight is so hard to fit into the other DB lore that I consider it non-existent.
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The manga erased the scythe and just had Vegeta getting his victory. They kept the stupid "1 hour fusion" thing though which I am not fond of. I'll see if it ends it in a respectable way, in which case I'm sure the DBSKai (DBKaioshin?) will fix it up in a decade.
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On May 16 2017 04:37 LegalLord wrote:
The manga erased the scythe and just had Vegeta getting his victory. They kept the stupid "1 hour fusion" thing though which I am not fond of. I'll see if it ends it in a respectable way, in which case I'm sure the DBSKai (DBKaioshin?) will fix it up in a decade.
I mean, I think the explanation is way better than 'Eh the insides of Buu are evil magic so you defused or some bullshit'. Problem I have with it is really more that 20 years after the fact, they take away the importance of Vegeta overcoming his pride and accepting to fuse forever.
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but isn't goku base form way stronger than before now that he subconsciously dive into the super saiyan god power?
I don't see how 17 should get anywhere close to goku in SSB form at all.
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On May 16 2017 22:27 ETisME wrote:
but isn't goku base form way stronger than before now that he subconsciously dive into the super saiyan god power?
I don't see how 17 should get anywhere close to goku in SSB form at all.
Because if power lvls were consistant from the battle of the gods and vegeta blue in return of frieza, everyone else would be completely useless in the tournament of power, not even gohan at that stage would have been able to do anything at all.
The team would literally just be goku and vegeta, (and buu) everyone else is one-hit cannon fodder.
I dont agree with the direction they have gone especially for krillin, 18,17, roshi, tien (thank god they didnt touch yamcha i would have lost my mind if he held anything from ssjblue).
But i can definitely see the need for these characters to catch up (an explanation that isnt shit would be nice) considering the tournament arc.
What i think is most upsetting is that the writters show a kind of disrespect towards fans who have follow dbz and well obviously have some resemblance of rank of these fighters, by pumping the minors characters strength drastically without proper explanation, it wouldnt have taken long to have goku or someone pass some teachings of ki control or something to raise their power lvls, or even enter the hypobolic timechamber with goku/vegeta/beerus/whis then cut away and not show the results until they appear in the tournament vs others and have them show off that way.
The reveal would be must more epic and w/e training they did in there is up to viewer imagination but it would be hard core especially with whis. Even mentioning that krillin, tein, picolco have been training in secret with 18 and 17 would have been better than krillin is just a cop but a scaredy cop, now that he's not a scaredy cop hes just a cop....who can hold back ssjblue
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Honestly, I still wonder why Piccolo never asked Whis to train him or something. I like how he stretches his body a lot now, but it'd be cool if he got even more racial abilities and such.
I would be fine if Krillen, Tien and such got strong enough to the point where they could at least see Base Goku fighting (they shouldn't be able to), because Solar Flare exists and is the most broken move in the show. The Androids have endless stamina and can cancel energy blasts, so that's a spot right there.
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I really just don't see the need for so many characters. A show like DBZ should be acquiring new characters along the way. Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, Androids and Buu all had somewhat natural ways of being integrated into the show. There's nothing wrong with Krillin/Tien/Yamcha being plain and simply old, irrelevant characters. As it currently stands, we have Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Buu and the androids as "actually strong" characters. The androids should be significantly weaker than everyone else, but still leagues ahead of Krillin/Tien/Yamcha.
The writers totally could have come up with some reason they were able to find some super strong character somewhere in universe 7. But then again, it really feels like they are already somewhat doing that with these additional universes. I will not be surprised to see some sort of insane melding of universes. I just don't see Toppo or the universe 6 saiyans going anywhere. I will be surprised if any more than a couple universes end up dead.
That being said, I feel strangely certain that the furry universe will be destroyed. First, there's the fact that furry culture always gets shafted on the internet. Second, they are clearly the weakest and the most lacking in likable characters. They are just dumb, arrogant wolves who weren't able to beat a blind, benign Gohan.
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On May 16 2017 23:04 Dark_Chill wrote:
Honestly, I still wonder why Piccolo never asked Whis to train him or something. I like how he stretches his body a lot now, but it'd be cool if he got even more racial abilities and such.
I would be fine if Krillen, Tien and such got strong enough to the point where they could at least see Base Goku fighting (they shouldn't be able to), because Solar Flare exists and is the most broken move in the show. The Androids have endless stamina and can cancel energy blasts, so that's a spot right there.
I don't think 17 and 18 are able to cancel energy blast like 19 and 20 if I remember correctly... could be wrong though cause it"s been a very long time since I last watched dbz !
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On May 17 2017 00:26 Lylat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2017 23:04 Dark_Chill wrote:
Honestly, I still wonder why Piccolo never asked Whis to train him or something. I like how he stretches his body a lot now, but it'd be cool if he got even more racial abilities and such.
I would be fine if Krillen, Tien and such got strong enough to the point where they could at least see Base Goku fighting (they shouldn't be able to), because Solar Flare exists and is the most broken move in the show. The Androids have endless stamina and can cancel energy blasts, so that's a spot right there. I don't think 17 and 18 are able to cancel energy blast like 19 and 20 if I remember correctly... could be wrong though cause it"s been a very long time since I last watched dbz !
Also that energy absorption is more limited to the technology they got from dr.gero, vegeta was easily able to overwhelming it in ssj2 form.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On May 17 2017 00:26 Lylat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2017 23:04 Dark_Chill wrote:
Honestly, I still wonder why Piccolo never asked Whis to train him or something. I like how he stretches his body a lot now, but it'd be cool if he got even more racial abilities and such.
I would be fine if Krillen, Tien and such got strong enough to the point where they could at least see Base Goku fighting (they shouldn't be able to), because Solar Flare exists and is the most broken move in the show. The Androids have endless stamina and can cancel energy blasts, so that's a spot right there. I don't think 17 and 18 are able to cancel energy blast like 19 and 20 if I remember correctly... could be wrong though cause it"s been a very long time since I last watched dbz !
no, you're right, they can't and shock above is right too, it was specifically technology made for those androids and they can also be overpowered if given too much energy.
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Canada16217 Posts
Really love the direction their taking Gohan, badass once again!
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EPT
