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On May 08 2017 04:27 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2017 04:24 BigFan wrote:On May 08 2017 03:25 blade55555 wrote:On May 08 2017 01:51 Mohdoo wrote:On May 08 2017 01:45 Elentos wrote:On May 08 2017 01:39 Mohdoo wrote:On May 08 2017 01:29 Elentos wrote:
I think 17 has to go above Piccolo if we just judge it by the filler episodes he was in. He was fighting Blue Goku evenly and holding back. I had interpreted the episode as both were holding back and Goku's ultimate power is likely significantly higher than that. Piccolo was ahead of 17 during the android saga and had continued to train since then. In the Android saga Piccolo and 17 were basically even weren't they? With 17's advantage being his limitless energy. Android 16 cited Piccolo as being as high of energy as 17, but Piccolo was holding back during that time so that Cell would tell Piccolo who/what he was. So Piccolo was actually some amount of stronger, likely much more, than 17 at that time since he was comfortable letting himself be grabbed and had his arm extracted. That's my read on it at least. Edit: Updated my list above to reflect S-tier. When Piccolo and 17 were fighting, I believe 16 still confirmed that 17 was as strong as picollo. I don't think Picollo was stronger than 17 at all, if he was the fight wouldn't have been so close (favoring 17 due to his limitless energy). Mohdoo makes a good point. Piccolo tried to conceal his power as much as possible to avoid Cell finding out where the androids were so I think he looked less powerful than he was. It's not like he could have concealed that much. He still had to put out enough to fight on par with full power 17, which I believe the only reason he did that was to kill them to make sure Cell doesn't get to his Perfect form. And when Cell arrived, despite no longer having any potential reason to hold back, Piccolo was totally outclassed.
Fatigue. And then after absorbing 18, overpowered.
And the point I was making earlier about SSB Goku fighting Mystic Gohan was to point out that he went SSB vs Krillin and 17. If he doesn't attempt it with Mystic Gohan, I'll be thoroughly more pissed than I already am at this horrible excuse for filler.
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I think Piccolo vs 17 will be an important data point.
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On May 12 2017 04:29 Mohdoo wrote:
I think Piccolo vs 17 will be an important data point.
I think we're well past any reference point making sense
Power lvls have basically been removed is in super everyone is as strong as the people around them.
The only thing i want to see is goku and vegeta fight others so i can forgot about these minor characters and their role in super its tainting my memory of them in db and dbz
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Happy King Piccolo Day (by dub date)!
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On May 08 2017 00:53 Elentos wrote:
I also like how for these filler episodes, with everyone else they at least try to make them look powerful and make it seem like taking them for the team is a good choice. But Tien gets to look like a total bitch.
Tien still pathetic lol. The episode was good though.
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Well at least Gohan was no match for Goku...
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TLADT24920 Posts
Not sure how I feel about this episode tbh. I did like that Goku started off at SSJ2 but cmon, he should know that Gohan is back to his mystic form and that his SSJ3 can't even stand up to that considering the buu arc. You could say that this is the usual Goku, start on the lower end and power up but it shouldn't take Gohan telling him to power up to his SSB for him to do it and then add Kaioshin on top too.
Problem I see and have seen all along is that SSB is so far removed from the other powerups. Like, I can't even tell how it stacks anymore. You used to be able to with SSJ etc... but all we know that is SSB > SSJ3 but by how much?
>>? >>>? >>>>? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>?
Regardless, at least they got the earth shaking lol.
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Goku is much stronger at base and therefore so is SSJ2. Why would that be inconsistent?
SSB power is pretty inconsistent though, that much is true. But I think that's by design because it's used in quite a few different ways.
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So good to see gohan back. Imagine he focus on improving just as much as goku.
Mystic + kaioken would be so op
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Kaioken? Goku is the only one who uses kaioken.
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On May 15 2017 01:13 ETisME wrote:
So good to see gohan back. Imagine he focus on improving just as much as goku.
Mystic + kaioken would be so op
I don't think Gohan could use Kaioken with Mystic due to leaking ki and I think once you master the ki leak, you end up as a SSB  .
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well goku learned kaioken from king kai so its definitely just a learnable techique
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There comes a time when each character needs to develop their own means to acquire power rather than just copying others. Gohan is already pretty far off the Super Saiyan path and I don't see any reason why he needs to converge to Goku-style. The last thing we need is a Goku clone in the show.
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Meh I think Kaioken is too much of a Goku gimmick/icon at this point to give it to anyone else.
No idea what Piccolo was doing the entire time, just charging up something weird with Tien just looking at him whilst Goku and Gohan were going at it.
All I know about power levels at this point is that SSJ3 gets utterly one-shotted by Beerus without effort and SSJB comes near his level. And Mystic Gohan was able to duel with Super Buu, which SSJ3 Gotenks was about equal to. We never saw SSJ3 Goku vs Super Buu, only vs Fat Buu and Kid Buu but as far as I know, Super Buu was the strongest form. (as Kid Buu might have been more pure evil but it didn't have any of Z Fighters power absorbed) And Goku SSJ3 was somewhat stronger that Fat Buu and Kid Buu but lost due to Buu's endless stamina/regeneration. He probably would've lost faster against Super Buu.
Which should mean that Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Goku. But since anything near Beerus level like SSJB would one-shot SSJ3 it actually makes sense that Goku would still one-shot Gohan, even without Kaioken.
I think the main question is more about how strong the other universes are. They seemed quite shocked when Goku when to God Ki level with SSJB. And they have Vegeta as well.
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They seemed shocked that he had Ki that was similar to the Gods but even still the other universes seem to have fighters on that level. 11 especially has Jiren who I guess will be the top rival guy to take out?
Though going 10 fighters deep for each universe there will probably be a fair bit of people on Krillin et al's level. I just hope they do a good job of showcasing the cleverness of fighters as well as techniques and things that can gain some unexpected knockouts on higher power characters.
There is a lot of potential for team tactic stuff like Krillin + 18, Gohan + Piccalo and for people like Roshi to use their experience and wide range of techniques to stay relevant. It seems to be what they were building towards pre-tournament.
I also agree with the let Gohan find his path to power a different way from SSJ. He already is down that path and we have 2 power houses establish (Goku Vegeta) along with Goten/Trunks/Pan (she seems like she will be super strong one day)/Bra as the next gen. Plus we are getting a few SSJs from universe 6 which should be cool. Either way we have enough super sayians.
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So, Tien took two hits from Gohan and didn't die. I'd say he's gotten stronger.
Gohan and Picolo's strategy was something developed back in the Raditz days, neat I guess.
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Power levels died a long time ago. Its a bit sad to be honest because it means that for plot reasons Krillin can beat Goku in SSJB Kaioken fusion times 100000000.
Its not gonna happen, I know, but the reason power levels were so interesting (and the reason people still remember them this much later and dont point out other things as often like ozaaru form) is because power levels gave US, the viewer, a point of reference on how things are standing.
Thats why there was stress when freeza said his power level was over a million. It was like... "now what are they going to do?".
Once the power level scaling is out the window its like this:
Two guys shout, they clash, one wins. We dont know why or how. We didn't know what to expect or how high the stakes were. And we certainly didn't feel scared for our characters since we didn't know if we had to be.
What I am sayin is that with no power levels the viewer does not have enough information to be drawn into the story... in the fighting that is.
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As tempting a tool as it is... power levels just aren't a good way to measure combat strength at all. There is an element of having to be "on the same level" in order to be able to even inflict damage, but beyond that it is rightfully nebulous. It's kind of an unjustified quantifier.
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Yeah I am starting to ignore the power level and scaling by now. They just mean nothing, especially now that goku spam the ssb+ kaioken form quite often now.
The only exception of cause is vegito ssb.
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I disagree that power levels are out the window at this point. The fight between Piccolo, Gohan, Goku and Tien was as blatant as they could get in saying "Yes, power level still matters a lot and no one is going to be beating someone much stronger than them".
Gohan getting thrashed by SSB Goku was pretty big. Mystic Gohan was definitely much stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and this was a good reference point to show that SSB is still way ahead of any non-god form.
But despite that, we still saw Gohan 1 shotting Tien. So we can consider Tien of negligible strength relative to Gohan, Goku and probably Piccolo as well. Tien being notably stronger than Krillin means Krillin is where he's always been. Considering the fact that Krillin got an entire episode dedicated to "Stop being a fucking cowardly bitch", I think it makes sense that Goku went into his blue form to scare him.
Also worth mentioning is the fact that Goku's fight with Gohan was notably more intense and effort-driven than the others. Well, vs 17 was intense. But for example, Goku getting "beat" by Buu was more so Goku jumping around and being like "lol oops". I don't think power levels are nearly as dead as they previously appeared.
Also: Holy shit only 4.5 more hours til the tournament! That's probably like 2-3 more episodes until we see some actual punches being thrown. So if this was episode 90, I'd say they "arrive" at the area episode 92. First punch is thrown in 93.
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EPT
