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On December 16 2012 13:11 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 12:50 Slow Motion wrote:
Thorin is a beast. Elves are bitches. You got that entirely backwards my friend. + Show Spoiler +
Thorin cries about the elves all movie long because they arrive to a battle a little late, while throughout the whole movie they do nothing but help him --let him keep ancient elvish weapons, decipher his map, let them stay in Rivendell.
Thorin finally gets him moment to prove that he isn't a little bitch...and what happens? He gets his ass kicked by an orc in like 3 seconds only to be saved by a little hobbit.
Not only this but he is a prick too--doubts Bilbo and goes on about how he doesn't belong with them, doesn't trust Gandalf about the elves, doesn't listen to Gandalf's plan about waiting for him in the Moutain...
The only cool thing that Thorin does is sing the Misty Mountain song at the beginning of the movie.
Elrond isn't really an elf though, technically speaking. The only elf that has an impact on the story of The Hobbit is Orlando Bloom's dad, and he won't show up untill the second film. Without spoiling too much, it's safe to say that the image of whiny elfs won't be changed much by him though. Thranduil is a pussy.
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my favorite quote (from memory):
+ Show Spoiler +Saruman: "Did you really think, that you could move unnoticed?"
Gandalf: "No. I just did what I believe is right." (^_^)
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I swear people will bitch about anything and everything simply for the sake of bitching..
I saw the movie on Thursday night. I honestly really enjoyed it. I've read the book and sure it wasn't spot on but the stuff they added was fine IMO. I think they did a fantastic job of keeping the tone of the book. Focusing on the hobbit, the heart and courage that they posses all the while keeping focus on the the journey itself.
The production value was some of the best I've ever seen. We watched it in Imax3D and it looked great. I've heard the HFR is great and I might even spend the money to see it again in that format.
Acting was decent, there was some cheesy one liners and what not but again this is the hobbit so that was expected from me.
The Gollum segment was my favorite. Seriously couldn't have been done better. I felt they captured his madness perfectly. At the drop of a dime we had every emotion possible from the tortured old hobbit. One minute he's lovable and then terrifying.. right after that you feel pity for him.. Well played movie creators.. well played.
I loved it and cannot wait until part 2 and 3 are released.
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Not really The Hobbit at all, really. More of "Tangentially related to The Hobbit", or "Borrowed the same basic plot structure of The Hobbit, but changes a bunch of stuff and ruins it".
The (incomplete) list of differences!
+ Show Spoiler +
1. Everyone already knows about Bilbo's adventure by the time The Lord of the Rings takes place.
2.The reason the dwarves dislike the elves has nothing to do with Smaug's appearance, and goes back to the events of The Silmarillion
3. Bilbo agrees to go on the journey the night before, not decides to do so that morning.
4. Radagast makes no appearance in The Hobbit
5. The night before the Troll encounter, it's freezing cold/raining and they can't start a fire, that's what brings them to the Trolls camp, not stolen ponies. They don't lose their ponies until the Mountains.
6. Azog died looooong before the events of The Hobbit.
7. It was Gandalf, not Bilbo, who got the Trolls to keep arguing.
8. They're not attacked by orcs, goblins, or anything like that before Rivendell.
9. The meetings of The White Council are never described in the book.
10. The Witch-King of Angmar never dies. He runs away defeated, but he does not die.
11. Gandalf leaves with them from Rivendell
12. The back of the cave, not the bottom, opens up. This is where the ponies get stolen, and Gandalf disappears (in a flash of firey light).
13. Bilbo does not get lost until the Dwarves are rescued by Gandalf from the Great Goblin.
14. (Not a plot problem, but a filming gripe. Peter Jackson realizes how dark it is in caves, right? There's a reason all Bilbo could see was Gollum's eyes, except by the light of Sting).
15. The back door is guarded by goblins when Bilbo and Gollum get there. Bilbo jumps over Gollum before this point, and Gandalf and co. escape much earlier.
16. This is where Bilbo gets stuck in the crevice. The Goblins, not Gollum, see his shadow in the sunlight (weakness of the ring), and are coming after him when he loses all his buttons.
17. The Dwarves have already set up camp when Bilbo reaches them.
18. The marauding wargs and Goblins arrive separately, and are there as a simple raiding party (not specifically chasing Thorin). As mentioned previously, Azog is already dead.
19. Thorin doesn't charge the marauding Goblins.
20. The tree doesn't fall over.
21. The Goblins use the fire to start setting the tree they're in on fire, not stand back until Thorin runs stupidly at them.
22. Thorin doesn't run stupidly at the Goblins
23. Thus, Bilbo doesn't save his life.
24. Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles, they just sort of appear.
25. The Eagles take them all back to they're Eyrie before dropping them off at the Carrack.
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On December 17 2012 02:02 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 13:11 Chewbacca. wrote:On December 16 2012 12:50 Slow Motion wrote:
Thorin is a beast. Elves are bitches. You got that entirely backwards my friend. + Show Spoiler +
Thorin cries about the elves all movie long because they arrive to a battle a little late, while throughout the whole movie they do nothing but help him --let him keep ancient elvish weapons, decipher his map, let them stay in Rivendell.
Thorin finally gets him moment to prove that he isn't a little bitch...and what happens? He gets his ass kicked by an orc in like 3 seconds only to be saved by a little hobbit.
Not only this but he is a prick too--doubts Bilbo and goes on about how he doesn't belong with them, doesn't trust Gandalf about the elves, doesn't listen to Gandalf's plan about waiting for him in the Moutain...
The only cool thing that Thorin does is sing the Misty Mountain song at the beginning of the movie.
Elrond isn't really an elf though, technically speaking. The only elf that has an impact on the story of The Hobbit is Orlando Bloom's dad, and he won't show up untill the second film. Without spoiling too much, it's safe to say that the image of whiny elfs won't be changed much by him though. Thranduil is a pussy.
Elrond is definitely an elf. The halfelven all have to choose whether to be man or elf, and he chose the latter. Therefore: Elf. 
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On December 17 2012 03:24 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Not really The Hobbit at all, really. More of "Tangentially related to The Hobbit", or "Borrowed the same basic plot structure of The Hobbit, but changes a bunch of stuff and ruins it". The (incomplete) list of differences! + Show Spoiler +
1. Everyone already knows about Bilbo's adventure by the time The Lord of the Rings takes place.
2.The reason the dwarves dislike the elves has nothing to do with Smaug's appearance, and goes back to the events of The Silmarillion
3. Bilbo agrees to go on the journey the night before, not decides to do so that morning.
4. Radagast makes no appearance in The Hobbit
5. The night before the Troll encounter, it's freezing cold/raining and they can't start a fire, that's what brings them to the Trolls camp, not stolen ponies. They don't lose their ponies until the Mountains.
6. Azog died looooong before the events of The Hobbit.
7. It was Gandalf, not Bilbo, who got the Trolls to keep arguing.
8. They're not attacked by orcs, goblins, or anything like that before Rivendell.
9. The meetings of The White Council are never described in the book.
10. The Witch-King of Angmar never dies. He runs away defeated, but he does not die.
11. Gandalf leaves with them from Rivendell
12. The back of the cave, not the bottom, opens up. This is where the ponies get stolen, and Gandalf disappears (in a flash of firey light).
13. Bilbo does not get lost until the Dwarves are rescued by Gandalf from the Great Goblin.
14. (Not a plot problem, but a filming gripe. Peter Jackson realizes how dark it is in caves, right? There's a reason all Bilbo could see was Gollum's eyes, except by the light of Sting).
15. The back door is guarded by goblins when Bilbo and Gollum get there. Bilbo jumps over Gollum before this point, and Gandalf and co. escape much earlier.
16. This is where Bilbo gets stuck in the crevice. The Goblins, not Gollum, see his shadow in the sunlight (weakness of the ring), and are coming after him when he loses all his buttons.
17. The Dwarves have already set up camp when Bilbo reaches them.
18. The marauding wargs and Goblins arrive separately, and are there as a simple raiding party (not specifically chasing Thorin). As mentioned previously, Azog is already dead.
19. Thorin doesn't charge the marauding Goblins.
20. The tree doesn't fall over.
21. The Goblins use the fire to start setting the tree they're in on fire, not stand back until Thorin runs stupidly at them.
22. Thorin doesn't run stupidly at the Goblins
23. Thus, Bilbo doesn't save his life.
24. Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles, they just sort of appear.
25. The Eagles take them all back to they're Eyrie before dropping them off at the Carrack.
Most, if not all of these are completely stupid to be complaining about. They left the main story completely intact from the book. I thought the movie was excellent. Yes, it did have some slow parts in it but so did the book. Overall a excellent movie and a excellent depiction of the book.
The only thing I didn't like was the Radagast segment. I like the inclusion of the Necromancer and liked the White Council meeting but the Radagast scene(s) I didn't care for.
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On December 17 2012 03:38 Patpoose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 03:24 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Not really The Hobbit at all, really. More of "Tangentially related to The Hobbit", or "Borrowed the same basic plot structure of The Hobbit, but changes a bunch of stuff and ruins it". The (incomplete) list of differences! + Show Spoiler +
1. Everyone already knows about Bilbo's adventure by the time The Lord of the Rings takes place.
2.The reason the dwarves dislike the elves has nothing to do with Smaug's appearance, and goes back to the events of The Silmarillion
3. Bilbo agrees to go on the journey the night before, not decides to do so that morning.
4. Radagast makes no appearance in The Hobbit
5. The night before the Troll encounter, it's freezing cold/raining and they can't start a fire, that's what brings them to the Trolls camp, not stolen ponies. They don't lose their ponies until the Mountains.
6. Azog died looooong before the events of The Hobbit.
7. It was Gandalf, not Bilbo, who got the Trolls to keep arguing.
8. They're not attacked by orcs, goblins, or anything like that before Rivendell.
9. The meetings of The White Council are never described in the book.
10. The Witch-King of Angmar never dies. He runs away defeated, but he does not die.
11. Gandalf leaves with them from Rivendell
12. The back of the cave, not the bottom, opens up. This is where the ponies get stolen, and Gandalf disappears (in a flash of firey light).
13. Bilbo does not get lost until the Dwarves are rescued by Gandalf from the Great Goblin.
14. (Not a plot problem, but a filming gripe. Peter Jackson realizes how dark it is in caves, right? There's a reason all Bilbo could see was Gollum's eyes, except by the light of Sting).
15. The back door is guarded by goblins when Bilbo and Gollum get there. Bilbo jumps over Gollum before this point, and Gandalf and co. escape much earlier.
16. This is where Bilbo gets stuck in the crevice. The Goblins, not Gollum, see his shadow in the sunlight (weakness of the ring), and are coming after him when he loses all his buttons.
17. The Dwarves have already set up camp when Bilbo reaches them.
18. The marauding wargs and Goblins arrive separately, and are there as a simple raiding party (not specifically chasing Thorin). As mentioned previously, Azog is already dead.
19. Thorin doesn't charge the marauding Goblins.
20. The tree doesn't fall over.
21. The Goblins use the fire to start setting the tree they're in on fire, not stand back until Thorin runs stupidly at them.
22. Thorin doesn't run stupidly at the Goblins
23. Thus, Bilbo doesn't save his life.
24. Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles, they just sort of appear.
25. The Eagles take them all back to they're Eyrie before dropping them off at the Carrack.
Most, if not all of these are completely stupid to be complaining about. They left the main story completely intact from the book. I thought the movie was excellent. Yes, it did have some slow parts in it but so did the book. Overall a excellent movie and a excellent depiction of the book. The only thing I didn't like was the Radagast segment. I like the inclusion of the Necromancer and liked the White Council meeting but the Radagast scene(s) I didn't care for.
I can understand the Necromance and White Council segments; it's a bit odd to just shove them in at the end in a movie. But the others are just laziness and/or bad decision making. The plot doesn't gain anything from having Azog charging around like a maniac, and it ruins it for people who actually enjoy the original mythos. I think it's silly, and while they maintain the same basic structure they managed to turn a book with depth and meaning into something trite and rather disappointing.
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Enjoyed it. The pace seemed slower than TTT/ROTK, but it had far more humor than all three LOTR movies combined which was a huge plus.
It's been many years since I've read the Hobbit so I don't really remember all the details so any small changes from the book didn't really bother me at all. The landscapes were beautiful, action scenes were great, and everything I loved about middle earth was there for me all over again. I'm not sure how appealing the movie would be to someone who isn't a total nerd for middle earth though due to the slow pace and length of the film.
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Ok, just returned home after watching it.
I still have a grin on my face and I will watch it again in a couple of days, so yeah, pretty good.
The flashback scenes were really good, the riddle scene was genious, the dwarves were as rowdy as I imagined so from the books, all in all the only part I didn't like that much was the radagast plot.
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On December 17 2012 03:24 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Not really The Hobbit at all, really. More of "Tangentially related to The Hobbit", or "Borrowed the same basic plot structure of The Hobbit, but changes a bunch of stuff and ruins it". The (incomplete) list of differences! + Show Spoiler +
1. Everyone already knows about Bilbo's adventure by the time The Lord of the Rings takes place.
2.The reason the dwarves dislike the elves has nothing to do with Smaug's appearance, and goes back to the events of The Silmarillion
3. Bilbo agrees to go on the journey the night before, not decides to do so that morning.
4. Radagast makes no appearance in The Hobbit
5. The night before the Troll encounter, it's freezing cold/raining and they can't start a fire, that's what brings them to the Trolls camp, not stolen ponies. They don't lose their ponies until the Mountains.
6. Azog died looooong before the events of The Hobbit.
7. It was Gandalf, not Bilbo, who got the Trolls to keep arguing.
8. They're not attacked by orcs, goblins, or anything like that before Rivendell.
9. The meetings of The White Council are never described in the book.
10. The Witch-King of Angmar never dies. He runs away defeated, but he does not die.
11. Gandalf leaves with them from Rivendell
12. The back of the cave, not the bottom, opens up. This is where the ponies get stolen, and Gandalf disappears (in a flash of firey light).
13. Bilbo does not get lost until the Dwarves are rescued by Gandalf from the Great Goblin.
14. (Not a plot problem, but a filming gripe. Peter Jackson realizes how dark it is in caves, right? There's a reason all Bilbo could see was Gollum's eyes, except by the light of Sting).
15. The back door is guarded by goblins when Bilbo and Gollum get there. Bilbo jumps over Gollum before this point, and Gandalf and co. escape much earlier.
16. This is where Bilbo gets stuck in the crevice. The Goblins, not Gollum, see his shadow in the sunlight (weakness of the ring), and are coming after him when he loses all his buttons.
17. The Dwarves have already set up camp when Bilbo reaches them.
18. The marauding wargs and Goblins arrive separately, and are there as a simple raiding party (not specifically chasing Thorin). As mentioned previously, Azog is already dead.
19. Thorin doesn't charge the marauding Goblins.
20. The tree doesn't fall over.
21. The Goblins use the fire to start setting the tree they're in on fire, not stand back until Thorin runs stupidly at them.
22. Thorin doesn't run stupidly at the Goblins
23. Thus, Bilbo doesn't save his life.
24. Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles, they just sort of appear.
25. The Eagles take them all back to they're Eyrie before dropping them off at the Carrack.
A pony falls in the river and runs away, and they lose all their food (but they recover the pony). So they kind of lose the ponies, but without having include an unrelated chasing scene.
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On December 17 2012 04:19 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 03:38 Patpoose wrote:On December 17 2012 03:24 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Not really The Hobbit at all, really. More of "Tangentially related to The Hobbit", or "Borrowed the same basic plot structure of The Hobbit, but changes a bunch of stuff and ruins it". The (incomplete) list of differences! + Show Spoiler +
1. Everyone already knows about Bilbo's adventure by the time The Lord of the Rings takes place.
2.The reason the dwarves dislike the elves has nothing to do with Smaug's appearance, and goes back to the events of The Silmarillion
3. Bilbo agrees to go on the journey the night before, not decides to do so that morning.
4. Radagast makes no appearance in The Hobbit
5. The night before the Troll encounter, it's freezing cold/raining and they can't start a fire, that's what brings them to the Trolls camp, not stolen ponies. They don't lose their ponies until the Mountains.
6. Azog died looooong before the events of The Hobbit.
7. It was Gandalf, not Bilbo, who got the Trolls to keep arguing.
8. They're not attacked by orcs, goblins, or anything like that before Rivendell.
9. The meetings of The White Council are never described in the book.
10. The Witch-King of Angmar never dies. He runs away defeated, but he does not die.
11. Gandalf leaves with them from Rivendell
12. The back of the cave, not the bottom, opens up. This is where the ponies get stolen, and Gandalf disappears (in a flash of firey light).
13. Bilbo does not get lost until the Dwarves are rescued by Gandalf from the Great Goblin.
14. (Not a plot problem, but a filming gripe. Peter Jackson realizes how dark it is in caves, right? There's a reason all Bilbo could see was Gollum's eyes, except by the light of Sting).
15. The back door is guarded by goblins when Bilbo and Gollum get there. Bilbo jumps over Gollum before this point, and Gandalf and co. escape much earlier.
16. This is where Bilbo gets stuck in the crevice. The Goblins, not Gollum, see his shadow in the sunlight (weakness of the ring), and are coming after him when he loses all his buttons.
17. The Dwarves have already set up camp when Bilbo reaches them.
18. The marauding wargs and Goblins arrive separately, and are there as a simple raiding party (not specifically chasing Thorin). As mentioned previously, Azog is already dead.
19. Thorin doesn't charge the marauding Goblins.
20. The tree doesn't fall over.
21. The Goblins use the fire to start setting the tree they're in on fire, not stand back until Thorin runs stupidly at them.
22. Thorin doesn't run stupidly at the Goblins
23. Thus, Bilbo doesn't save his life.
24. Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles, they just sort of appear.
25. The Eagles take them all back to they're Eyrie before dropping them off at the Carrack.
Most, if not all of these are completely stupid to be complaining about. They left the main story completely intact from the book. I thought the movie was excellent. Yes, it did have some slow parts in it but so did the book. Overall a excellent movie and a excellent depiction of the book. The only thing I didn't like was the Radagast segment. I like the inclusion of the Necromancer and liked the White Council meeting but the Radagast scene(s) I didn't care for. I can understand the Necromance and White Council segments; it's a bit odd to just shove them in at the end in a movie. But the others are just laziness and/or bad decision making. The plot doesn't gain anything from having Azog charging around like a maniac, and it ruins it for people who actually enjoy the original mythos. I think it's silly, and while they maintain the same basic structure they managed to turn a book with depth and meaning into something trite and rather disappointing.
If your primary desire is to experience the exact sequence of events from the written form of the Hobbit with no deviations, or concessions or changes to fit the different strengths and weaknesses of a movie, why didn't you just re-read it? Not a single one of the changes you listed has a meaningful impact on the story in any way, and most of them are just complaining about change for the sake of it.
I mean, the original LotR trilogy had changes that completely changed characters and motivations, and I can understand complaints about those. In the Hobbit they're alterations of specific details while keeping the tome and plot faithful to the book - in what way does that "ruin" anything?
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I think Balin looks wrong. The hair should have been more grey and less white. I think they made a bit of a joke out of Radagast. In fact I would have liked it if they had taken the entire film a bit more seriously. Parts of it could almost be out of a panto.
The flow of the film and the music seemed to mirror LOTR a bit too much but I wouldn't blame him too much for that.
I watched all of the LOTR movies at least 10 times and found them all quite enjoyable to re-watch. I saw the Hobbit for the first time on release day in 2-D then saw it again 2 days later in 3-D, even on the 2nd viewing it did not have the same re-watchability that the LOTR trilogy did, then again its a bit too soon to call.
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I think overall the movie wasn't bad , but certainly not what I was expecting. Everything was so fake, orcs/trolls looked so childish. Overall the movie looked childish, maybe that's what they wanted with The Hobbits, but the dangerous atmosphere/fear of LoTR wasn't there at all.I remember the passage when the trolls were talking with each other like they were buddies buddies...wtf?! Why giving so much stuff for simple gigantic deadly creatures? It just make no sense whatsoever, atleast not in that environment.
I don't know if the childish style will fade away in the other movies but, if it don't, I'll be really sad.I guess The Hobbits trilogy was aiming more for a general audiance than LoTR, which is acceptable to make money..But coming from Peter Jackson, who knows the winning formula of LoTR,I have no idea why he changed everything when he knows his LoTR fans(atleast most of them) would be disappointed.I wouldn't say it's an awful movie but seriously...why removing real characters playing orcs and making it all with PC?
Certainly not a lack of budget...I'm looking forward the other movies but saying that I'm not fairly disappointed would be a lie.
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Just saw it in 2D, because I really dislike 3D cinema.
It was shown in two parts with a break in the middle.
And I would rate it in 2 parts.
The first part I really liked, because I <3 dwarfs. There was action, and enough storytelling to keep me engaged. I honestly thought the first Lotr was too slow, and too much talking, yet the first half of this movie almost had a little too much actionscences, but was still very enjoyable - for me at least.
The second half of the movie, with the exception of the gollum and bilbo dialog was just, hm, bad. Just one badly done action sequence after another. When they are chased in the troll cavern I really had to think about how tolkin refused that disney would ever do Lotr, yet the slapstick childlike animation and choreography awoke memories of disney cartons. There is just no substance in the second half of the movie. And that white orc looked worse than real time Urdnot Wrex.
I think first half 8/10, second half 2/10
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I watched it two times now.. once in english and 3D (because they didnt have the english version in HFR) and once in spanish in 3D HFR. and i must say 3D HFR is so much clearer and more enjoyable. Why not make it 96 FPS.. it definetely gets only better.
I think Azog was included to give the orcs that are chasing them a face and a character so that they arent just a random mob. They did it in lotr too with lurtz, the first uruk-hai of saruman. I guess thats the pattern behind it and its also useful to give some background info on thorin oakenshield without it being completely seperate from the main story line. and i really liked the oakenshield explanation
Radagast isnt really described in detail from the books. Since i dont have a lot of imagination i had no idea how he would look like. He was described as a person who knows a lot about nature and loves animals and talks to them. He was also described as a master of shapes and changes of hue.. whatever that means.
So maybe its an extreme way to portray Radagast but i think it is a valid one. At least it is unique and it gives him a memorable appearance. From the tolkien books hes just a blank character to me.
In the book Bilbo hadnt become that heroic badass yet. From the book point of view we are still at the beginning of Bilbos character development and actually at that scene where they climb in the trees bilbo couldnt reach the lowest branch so one of the dwarves had to climb down again and give him a lift. Thats how useful he still was back then. In contrast to the movie where he has the most courage of all of them and saves Thorin. Maybe it gets annoying if the main character is a little bitch for the entire movie but maybe it takes away a lot of character development from the second part. we'll see.. that might turn out as a bad decision in my opinion.
Some detail changes are necessary otherwise the movie would be dragging a lot. Their journey up until now should be like almost 3 month. They stayed some weeks in rivendell. They spend several days inside the misty mountains.They got hunted a lot in the movie but thats just to prevent that the suspense doesnt slagg off in the middle of 3 hours. And i think the dwarves are represented well as funny people. the trolls were supposed to be featherbrained. I just dont approve that tom and jerry humor when the goblin king lands on top of all the dwarves to get a bit of laughter.
but after all i think its very similar to the book. A lot of scenes were taken over literally. like word for word.
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On December 17 2012 07:33 HaRuHi wrote:
When they are chased in the troll cavern I really had to think about how tolkin refused that disney would ever do Lotr, yet the slapstick childlike animation and choreography awoke memories of disney cartons. There is just no substance in the second half of the movie. And that white orc looked worse than real time Urdnot Wrex.
On December 17 2012 07:40 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
the trolls were supposed to be featherbrained. I just dont approve that tom and jerry humor when the goblin king lands on top of all the dwarves to get a bit of laughter.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one thinking scenes were too childish.
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On December 17 2012 05:13 Bevan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 04:19 refmac_cys.cys wrote:On December 17 2012 03:38 Patpoose wrote:On December 17 2012 03:24 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Not really The Hobbit at all, really. More of "Tangentially related to The Hobbit", or "Borrowed the same basic plot structure of The Hobbit, but changes a bunch of stuff and ruins it". The (incomplete) list of differences! + Show Spoiler +
1. Everyone already knows about Bilbo's adventure by the time The Lord of the Rings takes place.
2.The reason the dwarves dislike the elves has nothing to do with Smaug's appearance, and goes back to the events of The Silmarillion
3. Bilbo agrees to go on the journey the night before, not decides to do so that morning.
4. Radagast makes no appearance in The Hobbit
5. The night before the Troll encounter, it's freezing cold/raining and they can't start a fire, that's what brings them to the Trolls camp, not stolen ponies. They don't lose their ponies until the Mountains.
6. Azog died looooong before the events of The Hobbit.
7. It was Gandalf, not Bilbo, who got the Trolls to keep arguing.
8. They're not attacked by orcs, goblins, or anything like that before Rivendell.
9. The meetings of The White Council are never described in the book.
10. The Witch-King of Angmar never dies. He runs away defeated, but he does not die.
11. Gandalf leaves with them from Rivendell
12. The back of the cave, not the bottom, opens up. This is where the ponies get stolen, and Gandalf disappears (in a flash of firey light).
13. Bilbo does not get lost until the Dwarves are rescued by Gandalf from the Great Goblin.
14. (Not a plot problem, but a filming gripe. Peter Jackson realizes how dark it is in caves, right? There's a reason all Bilbo could see was Gollum's eyes, except by the light of Sting).
15. The back door is guarded by goblins when Bilbo and Gollum get there. Bilbo jumps over Gollum before this point, and Gandalf and co. escape much earlier.
16. This is where Bilbo gets stuck in the crevice. The Goblins, not Gollum, see his shadow in the sunlight (weakness of the ring), and are coming after him when he loses all his buttons.
17. The Dwarves have already set up camp when Bilbo reaches them.
18. The marauding wargs and Goblins arrive separately, and are there as a simple raiding party (not specifically chasing Thorin). As mentioned previously, Azog is already dead.
19. Thorin doesn't charge the marauding Goblins.
20. The tree doesn't fall over.
21. The Goblins use the fire to start setting the tree they're in on fire, not stand back until Thorin runs stupidly at them.
22. Thorin doesn't run stupidly at the Goblins
23. Thus, Bilbo doesn't save his life.
24. Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles, they just sort of appear.
25. The Eagles take them all back to they're Eyrie before dropping them off at the Carrack.
Most, if not all of these are completely stupid to be complaining about. They left the main story completely intact from the book. I thought the movie was excellent. Yes, it did have some slow parts in it but so did the book. Overall a excellent movie and a excellent depiction of the book. The only thing I didn't like was the Radagast segment. I like the inclusion of the Necromancer and liked the White Council meeting but the Radagast scene(s) I didn't care for. I can understand the Necromance and White Council segments; it's a bit odd to just shove them in at the end in a movie. But the others are just laziness and/or bad decision making. The plot doesn't gain anything from having Azog charging around like a maniac, and it ruins it for people who actually enjoy the original mythos. I think it's silly, and while they maintain the same basic structure they managed to turn a book with depth and meaning into something trite and rather disappointing. If your primary desire is to experience the exact sequence of events from the written form of the Hobbit with no deviations, or concessions or changes to fit the different strengths and weaknesses of a movie, why didn't you just re-read it? Not a single one of the changes you listed has a meaningful impact on the story in any way, and most of them are just complaining about change for the sake of it. I mean, the original LotR trilogy had changes that completely changed characters and motivations, and I can understand complaints about those. In the Hobbit they're alterations of specific details while keeping the tome and plot faithful to the book - in what way does that "ruin" anything?
If they don't significantly alter the story, then why not do it right? And you'll note, of course, that several of the changes do significantly alter the story, namely 4 and 6. It would have been a decent film in its own right, but I'm not quite sure how they got it from reading The Hobbit.
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Lifelong J.R.R.T. fan, I really loved the movie.
In my book Jackson is one of the few directors who managed not to shit on his literary conversions.
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On December 17 2012 07:49 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 05:13 Bevan wrote:On December 17 2012 04:19 refmac_cys.cys wrote:On December 17 2012 03:38 Patpoose wrote:On December 17 2012 03:24 refmac_cys.cys wrote:Not really The Hobbit at all, really. More of "Tangentially related to The Hobbit", or "Borrowed the same basic plot structure of The Hobbit, but changes a bunch of stuff and ruins it". The (incomplete) list of differences! + Show Spoiler +
1. Everyone already knows about Bilbo's adventure by the time The Lord of the Rings takes place.
2.The reason the dwarves dislike the elves has nothing to do with Smaug's appearance, and goes back to the events of The Silmarillion
3. Bilbo agrees to go on the journey the night before, not decides to do so that morning.
4. Radagast makes no appearance in The Hobbit
5. The night before the Troll encounter, it's freezing cold/raining and they can't start a fire, that's what brings them to the Trolls camp, not stolen ponies. They don't lose their ponies until the Mountains.
6. Azog died looooong before the events of The Hobbit.
7. It was Gandalf, not Bilbo, who got the Trolls to keep arguing.
8. They're not attacked by orcs, goblins, or anything like that before Rivendell.
9. The meetings of The White Council are never described in the book.
10. The Witch-King of Angmar never dies. He runs away defeated, but he does not die.
11. Gandalf leaves with them from Rivendell
12. The back of the cave, not the bottom, opens up. This is where the ponies get stolen, and Gandalf disappears (in a flash of firey light).
13. Bilbo does not get lost until the Dwarves are rescued by Gandalf from the Great Goblin.
14. (Not a plot problem, but a filming gripe. Peter Jackson realizes how dark it is in caves, right? There's a reason all Bilbo could see was Gollum's eyes, except by the light of Sting).
15. The back door is guarded by goblins when Bilbo and Gollum get there. Bilbo jumps over Gollum before this point, and Gandalf and co. escape much earlier.
16. This is where Bilbo gets stuck in the crevice. The Goblins, not Gollum, see his shadow in the sunlight (weakness of the ring), and are coming after him when he loses all his buttons.
17. The Dwarves have already set up camp when Bilbo reaches them.
18. The marauding wargs and Goblins arrive separately, and are there as a simple raiding party (not specifically chasing Thorin). As mentioned previously, Azog is already dead.
19. Thorin doesn't charge the marauding Goblins.
20. The tree doesn't fall over.
21. The Goblins use the fire to start setting the tree they're in on fire, not stand back until Thorin runs stupidly at them.
22. Thorin doesn't run stupidly at the Goblins
23. Thus, Bilbo doesn't save his life.
24. Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles, they just sort of appear.
25. The Eagles take them all back to they're Eyrie before dropping them off at the Carrack.
Most, if not all of these are completely stupid to be complaining about. They left the main story completely intact from the book. I thought the movie was excellent. Yes, it did have some slow parts in it but so did the book. Overall a excellent movie and a excellent depiction of the book. The only thing I didn't like was the Radagast segment. I like the inclusion of the Necromancer and liked the White Council meeting but the Radagast scene(s) I didn't care for. I can understand the Necromance and White Council segments; it's a bit odd to just shove them in at the end in a movie. But the others are just laziness and/or bad decision making. The plot doesn't gain anything from having Azog charging around like a maniac, and it ruins it for people who actually enjoy the original mythos. I think it's silly, and while they maintain the same basic structure they managed to turn a book with depth and meaning into something trite and rather disappointing. If your primary desire is to experience the exact sequence of events from the written form of the Hobbit with no deviations, or concessions or changes to fit the different strengths and weaknesses of a movie, why didn't you just re-read it? Not a single one of the changes you listed has a meaningful impact on the story in any way, and most of them are just complaining about change for the sake of it. I mean, the original LotR trilogy had changes that completely changed characters and motivations, and I can understand complaints about those. In the Hobbit they're alterations of specific details while keeping the tome and plot faithful to the book - in what way does that "ruin" anything? If they don't significantly alter the story, then why not do it right? And you'll note, of course, that several of the changes do significantly alter the story, namely 4 and 6. It would have been a decent film in its own right, but I'm not quite sure how they got it from reading The Hobbit.
They have to alter the story somewhat to fit the medium of film. They also have to assume that the audience hasn't read the book. As well as that, there are things which happened in the LotR films which it makes sense to remain consistent with for simplicity's sake (e.g. Gandalf 'summoning' the Eagles).
I could give you 4 and 6, but the basic shape of the plot remains the same with or without Azog/Radagast. The Hobbit would still be more or less the same story had Tolkien decided to remove Azog entirely, or never mention Radagast. They're interesting details for a Tolkien buff or avid reader, but at the end of the day they're so far removed from the main arch of the story that it really doesn't matter.
The rest of your complaints are so pathetic that it makes me wonder what you even expected when you went to see the film. Like that other guy said, why didn't you just re-read The Hobbit?
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As a person that didn't read the Hobbit book I think this movie was pretty bad. Well not bad overall but bad when compared to earlier 3 movies. Some scenes were practically rip offs from earlier movies, like all the running from Goblin part and summoning of Giant Eagles.
There were too many slow parts and talking to the audience. The parts with old Bilbo and Frodo could and should have been cut out, they were completely unneeded.
I guess I wanted to see something new, but I got a similar story told a bit different.
EDIT: When we find about the Necromancer, if the story goes in the way to confront him that would have been interesting. The whole movie does not have anything really interesting going on that has not been seen before. Maybe the Trolls parts but that was done in a too much of a child like manner.
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EPT
