EPT[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 687
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9275 Posts
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
edit: actually i remove this, the game is really good so you should just play it -_- | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
"Hey everyone lets go and kill more of the bomb throwing people that will kill at least 10 of you for each one of them even though they've already suffered heavily losses and have given up ground. Who wants to go in first? Anyone?" Like it's especially hard to reconcile enabling the nuclear option (Others) with a race of magic bomb throwers who seem at least likely to be able to just retreat and settle somewhere out of the way because it'd be such a pain in the ass to hunt them down. There isn't even a reason for them at all to have the bombs except "EXPLOSIONS" it isn't plot relevant at all. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 23 2016 12:14 marttorn wrote: sudden close up of a dick out of nowhere was jarring man that was the fittest gril on GOT to date and then suddenly penis | ||
KwarK
United States43545 Posts
On May 23 2016 23:18 Logo wrote: Yeah, understandable the first men would win. But still it makes the war seem not realistic to me. "Hey everyone lets go and kill more of the bomb throwing people that will kill at least 10 of you for each one of them even though they've already suffered heavily losses and have given up ground. Who wants to go in first? Anyone?" Like it's especially hard to reconcile enabling the nuclear option (Others) with a race of magic bomb throwers who seem at least likely to be able to just retreat and settle somewhere out of the way because it'd be such a pain in the ass to hunt them down. There isn't even a reason for them at all to have the bombs except "EXPLOSIONS" it isn't plot relevant at all. We know their life cycle is way, way slower than ours. Like in a blink of an eye to them not only have all the humans they killed been replaced but also the forest has been cut down, replaced with farmland and has a castle on a nearby hill. They were fighting a war against a people who experienced time in a fundamentally different way. Hell, the humans probably didn't even view it as a war, they were just chopping down trees and sometimes got bombed and had to kill these weird things. Then their grandchildren might have a similar situation decades later and further north. | ||
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haitike
Spain2723 Posts
On May 23 2016 22:53 KwarK wrote: The Ironborn have always respected the iron price. Then why do they have a monarchy if you can kill the king and anounce it publicly. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Even if they didn't want to go mystical he could have at least had SOMETHING to prove his worth. If the dude showed up with some crazy weapons, a ridiculous flagship ship (is that redundant?) or whatever it would be way more believable that the Ironborn would overlook the kinslaying. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Yhamm
France7248 Posts
On May 23 2016 22:53 KwarK wrote: The Ironborn have always respected the iron price. He admits killing his brother & king, there is just no way the Ironborn could respect that While kinslaying is seen as the worst sin in the book, they make it looks like a normal thing in the show. Dorne (ok, not really a kin but Tyene is right here, and it's still her Prince Ellaria killed), Ramsay (and the Lord Karstack being totally fine with it), and now the Ironborn all being ok with Euron killing their king (and its brother) | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 24 2016 00:41 Yhamm wrote: He admits killing his brother & king, there is just no way the Ironborn could respect that While kinslaying is seen as the worst sin in the book, they make it looks like a normal thing in the show. Dorne (ok, not really a kin but Tyene is right here, and it's still her Prince Ellaria killed), Ramsay (and the Lord Karstack being totally fine with it), and now the Ironborn all being ok with Euron killing their king (and its brother) The Lord Karkstark makes some sense at least; dude is probably terrified of Ramsy and ultimately it would be Ramsy's word against his while he's standing in a castle of men loyal to the Boltons. On top of that it's not like Karstark has the means to challenge the Bolton's hold over the land so ultimately he doesn't have much room to do anything but stand there. | ||
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InDaHouse
Sweden956 Posts
But it wasn't the First Men that almost annihilated the CotF, they were losing the war yes but it was when the Andals arrived in the Vale that the extinction of CotF took place in Westeros. And this happened after the Pact between the CotF and the First Men. The Andals just arrived from Essos with new weaponry and neglitated by the Valyrian Dragonlords swept clean with CotF and the First Men. Then they merged through marriage with the First Men. The Kingdom of the North was the only part in Westeros that stood up against the Andals, thus you always get the reference that Northmen are not like they ordinary people of Westeros. Basically, Northmen are the First Men. The Pact was done because CotF realised that the First Men were cutting down all the Weirwoods and the wisemen of CotF a.ka the Greenseers (Bran and Bloodraven are greenseers) knew that they would lose even more advantage if they couldn't communicate and "see" through the Weirwoods. The terms of The Pact were that CotF would move North and give land to the First Men and in return the First Men would leave all the Weirwoods in Westeros intact. The First Men also started to worship the weirwoods after the Pact with CotF was done and therefore you can see Godswoods with a carved Weirwood still exist in every major city around in Westeros even in the south. So the First Men got influenced by the Old Gods through the CotF. Many have speculated the purpose of the Others and came up with various of theories. Now I just think they are a bioweapon unleashed by CotF that went rogue, and they are just massing very alike xenomorph Aliens. With no real purpose than eradicate all living things.
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Hyperbola
United States2547 Posts
Now, with it being the most popular show on television, it seems like there's an expectation for it to appeal to everyone and be understandable for everyone and focus on only the most "epic" stuff while skipping our fastforwarding all of the "boring" scenes. It's a damn shame. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12387 Posts
Starks fought on the side of the Others during the Age of Heroes (obviously true given religion of Starks and now uncovered link between children and others) historical Ice sword was made of ice The wall was built by the Others to shield themselves from men (seems incredibly likely now) The Night's king was a Stark And like five other likely correct things. I wish I could find it again. I don't remember the guy's name, but he's a fucking hero. edit: it was SunnyD (http://www.tor.com/2013/03/15/spoiler-thread-for-a-read-of-ice-and-fire-part-2/comment-page-5/#comment-331896) | ||
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brian
United States9636 Posts
On May 24 2016 01:25 Hyperbola wrote: I think the shows popularity is its own worst enemy. Back when it was still in its infancy it could stick close to the source material, take it's time developing plots, have dialogue that's more complex than an elementary level and have some subtlety. Now, with it being the most popular show on television, it seems like there's an expectation for it to appeal to everyone and be understandable for everyone and focus on only the most "epic" stuff while skipping our fastforwarding all of the "boring" scenes. It's a damn shame. disagree. I think it'll really make reading TWOW after knowing the general plot points more enjoyable since I can expect it to be more than the show is giving us. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 24 2016 01:27 brian wrote: disagree. I think it'll really make reading TWOW after knowing the general plot points more enjoyable since I can expect it to be more than the show is giving us. Well there's also a ton of really compelling plot lines not in the show. Forget the Tower of Joy and all that. I want to know more about Patchface, the Mummer's Dragon, Dragonbinder, and the horn of Joramun. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 24 2016 01:26 Nebuchad wrote: Something like three years ago, there was a huge post in the comments of Leigh Butler's reread of Ice and Fire with a theory. Starks fought on the side of the Others during the Age of Heroes (obviously true given religion of Starks and now uncovered link between children and others) historical Ice sword was made of ice The wall was built by the Others to shield themselves from men (seems incredibly likely now) The Night's king was a Stark And like five other likely correct things. I wish I could find it again. I don't remember the guy's name, but he's a fucking hero. edit: it was SunnyD (http://www.tor.com/2013/03/15/spoiler-thread-for-a-read-of-ice-and-fire-part-2/comment-page-5/#comment-331896) I actually don't see how any of this is likely | ||
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InDaHouse
Sweden956 Posts
On May 24 2016 01:26 Nebuchad wrote: Something like three years ago, there was a huge post in the comments of Leigh Butler's reread of Ice and Fire with a theory. Starks fought on the side of the Others during the Age of Heroes (obviously true given religion of Starks and now uncovered link between children and others) historical Ice sword was made of ice The wall was built by the Others to shield themselves from men (seems incredibly likely now) The Night's king was a Stark And like five other likely correct things. I wish I could find it again. I don't remember the guy's name, but he's a fucking hero. I have read about that theory and I disagree. According to The World of Ice and Fire, the untold history of Westeros and the GoT by GRRM, Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson the Wall was built by Giants, Men and CotF. They even have a whole page illustrated in the compendium showing a Giant dragging a huge brick of ice and in the background you can see the Wall being constructed. I think it is highly unlikely they are building the Wall in collaboration with the Others. Edit: spelling | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On May 22 2016 18:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well the mongol empire is not a good reference point because it was extremely extremely decentralized, and basically all based on a dynamic of conquests. Not much to do with a solid and stable european like feudal kingdom. True, I only threw it out because I knew that they withdrew their commanders in Europe / Middle East back to Mongolia to elect the new Khan, which sounds like a huge logistical accomplishment (getting the message there in time for starters). In fact I went back and looked at a timeline, they started to fragment after 3 generations while the various hordes / princes were still expanding their conquests. So hardly an example of effective governance like you said. Maybe a better example of governing a spread out empire is the Inca's. They weren't much bigger than other empires, but they didn't have horses so travel times would be similar (and for bonus points, they're empire stretched almost as far North-South as Latin America / Westeros is). On May 23 2016 08:29 DickMcFanny wrote: Not sure 3. would be such a big problem, you can't compare today's population density with historic, rural societies. The densest in all of Europe in the 1700s was London, and even back then it had less than ten per cent of the population it has now. 3.4 million people spread across half of Europe isn't too bad. I've seen this argued a few times. Some people point to the lack of mid-sized towns, yet we see plenty and more during Jaime / Brienne / Arya's jaunts through the Riverlands. Others point out the North being something like the size of China with a tiny population, but some people don't see how anyone could survive a multi-year winter there either... But for sure the mobilization seems wonky (the Iron Island mobilize waaaaay too much and the other regions waaaay too little - and I base this on how often the Lannisters / Riverlands / North are able to reraise big armies and the 1000+ ship Iron Fleet rising out of nothing). On May 23 2016 06:29 Sent. wrote: I hate the time altering stuff in general because it always leads to many hard questions that often have to remain unanswered. Why did the old tree-guy bring Bran to Winterfell ? Did he knew what will happen to Hodor? If he did then does it mean it's possible to see the future? Why did Bran's consciousness split in two? I mean he was controlling Hodor and watching Wylis turn into Hodor simultaneously. I'm worried they only teased us with the ToJ mystery and it won't be revealed in this season. That would be a sick move from the writers. My read on that scene was Bran warged from his astral self (for lack of a better word) into Hodor, which connected past-Wylis to present-Hodor which is how he ended up catatonic and why he could hear Meera yelling what she did. I do hope this doesn't turn too much into time paradoxes and all that, maybe this is just D&D's Easter Egg to answer if Bran can communicate through the Weirnet (to young Ned, Theon in the Godswood being ambiguous moments the book). I felt the same way about the pink letter being hand delivered to Jon. Also, I believe Stannis wasn't killed on screen last season is kind of a reverse-easter egg. So book readers wouldn't have his fate thrown in their face (I already see people arguing that he's not dead even among show-only watchers). | ||
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