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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
On November 23 2010 10:42 Zocat wrote:
But some people need to think a bit more. About the "How can they just walk home?"
Well - how did they get home after their "first" (shown) visit? With two stolen cars.
Then how did they got to the city in the first place?
Either they had their own vehicle (but didnt use it to escape? how stupid is that?) or they walked? Therefore "walking" distance is ok in my books.
If they _need_ to drive - how did they get there in the first place and why dont they use the same way of transportation to escape? (Or was that mentioned and I just forgot)?
Did you even watch it?
They walked there. Then they got surrounded by zombies, so they needed to drive back. They decided it was too dangerous to walk there again, because of the, you know, zombies. So they drove back. And then their truck got stolen by someone (stop assuming it's Merle, it was only a guess, it could be anyone).
They killed the sister because she died in the comics. Is that enough for you people? She didn't have to be hot. She could have been ugly. And she still would have died. And it still would have the same effect, the other sister develops. If it happened the other way, the same result could have happened. Who knows. But it didn't. Stop trying to change what happens in the series.
Millions of things can happen. Just because it's not the most logical, reasonable, or obvious choice doesn't mean it can't happen. It's a series and it has happened. Accept it and move on. If it bothers you so much, stop watching it. Or stop criticizing it. The world isn't this perfect little place where everything you think or hope actually happens. Especially not in this series.
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I think that a lot of the criticism of minor details comes from a community that is based around doing things optimally. Given the same situation as Mearle, i doubt that many teamliquidites would chop off their hand, but sometimes these things happen during a spur of the moment decision. This doesn't excuse any major plotholes or gaping chasms in logic, but the community should take a fictional account of a zombie apocalypse less seriously. Be a spectator, not a critic.
With all of that said, can't wait for the next episode, really enjoying this series, and I hope that the writers aren't too stingy when it comes to the lives of the survivors.
But if they don't immediately headshot the dead sister, i will seriously be angry, and facepalms will abound if she is allowed to "live" and ends up biting someone else.
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Russian Federation145 Posts
On November 23 2010 11:33 Colbear wrote:But if they don't immediately headshot the dead sister, i will seriously be angry, and facepalms will abound if she is allowed to "live" and ends up biting someone else.
LOL yea, I was banging my head against my desk at that point. "Why doesn't someone grab her? Why isn't Darryl using his crossbow yet?" But that's to be expected after the first episode when horse cowboy sheriff, after witnessing Armageddon, just sort of stands around for a good 20 seconds staring at the cheesiest zombie girl. Even if the internet doesn't exist in their universe and nobody has ever heard about zombies, I'm pretty sure any reasonable person would have their epiphany at the bloody destroyed cadaver hospital and have plenty of time to get over it.
I think that in a zombie setting, reality flies out of the window immediately. If you guys ever forget how ridiculous any possible situation is, remember all of these things:
Why don't the two surviving police officers grab full riot gear from the station? How the hell does an army outpost get overrun by zombies? Don't they have people with automatic guns? Don't they have people with really big guns and years of close combat training? One thing I'd like explained is how the tank crew became zombified. Those things are NBC sealed and zombies would probably die of cancer caused by the radiation from the depleted uranium plating before even scratching the paint off of the crew hatch. If the crew ever got bored they could just cruise the tank around the whole city, committing zombie genocide with their 60ton steamroller.
Also, why do the survivors think it's a good idea to depopulate their Caribbean, turquoise colored paradise puddle so quickly. The other side of it is literally a skipping stone throw's away. It's pretty amazing how a body of water that small can support so much life. If I was in their position I'd have the sense to either lay as low as possible until at least most of the zombies starved or dehydrated to death, or find some sort of a workable farm to maybe try to get a harvest before winter. The alternative to that seems to be scavenging food in the city, which strikes me as the worst possible option. Am I the only person to actually plan a month ahead in the world?
This show is the only tv drama I've ever considered watching and it hasn't failed to entertain me yet.
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On November 23 2010 12:31 TheDrill wrote:
Also, why do the survivors think it's a good idea to depopulate their Caribbean, turquoise colored paradise puddle so quickly. The other side of it is literally a skipping stone throw's away. It's pretty amazing how a body of water that small can support so much life. If I was in their position I'd have the sense to either lay as low as possible until at least most of the zombies starved or dehydrated to death, or find some sort of a workable farm to maybe try to get a harvest before winter. The alternative to that seems to be scavenging food in the city, which strikes me as the worst possible option. Am I the only person to actually plan a month ahead in the world?
That was the biggest thing. That lake provides so many crucial resources for them other than the drinking water, they were using it for laundry, they could set up a makeshift farm if they scavenge tools and seeds from the city, and as the episode showed the lake is even filled with fish life that they could rely on in a crisis.
The logical solution is to set up their camp on the high ground, and using a series of trenches and maybe even fences/walls, cut off the zombies' access to the lake while funneling them into attack lines towards the camp, where the survivors can block them off at critical bottlenecks and with their incredible supply of ammo (or even just melee weapons + crossbow), hold off any horde regardless of size as long as they don't get tired.
Now obviously it's not really realistic to expect such militaristic thinking from a bunch of civilians and two small-town cops, but they instead went for like the complete reverse, most stupid set-up possible: a completely open and undefended camp on low, flat ground with entry from every direction and no warning system, guards, or fall-backs in place. At the very least, they should've had at least one lookout, and all adults is armed at all times with melee weapons. They had at least two vehicles including one large trailer, why not push the two vehicles together and then set up ladders so they can retreat up to high ground on the roofs when they're getting swarmed? Instead they had a complete lack of security and preparation so when the inevitable swarm happened, it was total chaos and huge casualties.
Granted it's just TV and this is all fancy nit-picking from people who have spent too much time thinking about zombies, but this is a minor gripe of mine.
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is it just me or did a bunch of people you only saw once(as in the first time you saw them they were getting ate by zombies) happen this last episode or what? Really wish they'd of stuck with the damn comic book storyline.
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On November 23 2010 10:18 Krigwin wrote:
I liked this episode a lot and it was probably the best post-episode 1, but a number of concerns:
1. The whole bit with Merle hacking off his hand. I like that they at least addressed the lack of blood and tried to address the whole bit of why he cut off his hand and not the threaded rod,
Really, this needed to be addressed? It's unbelievable to me that there are people here that see a guy with a hacksaw handcuffed to an iron rod and some of them think that he tried to cut off his hand before he tried to cut the rod.
I mean what the heck!?
I guess it goes to show how stupid some stereotypes are of rednecks that people would think he is so stupid that he would try to cut off his hand before he tried to cut the rod. The irony is that anyone whose brain functions so poorly to think that he would try to cut off his hand before a rod is probably just as slow in the head as the redneck.
P.S. rednecks are more likely to live in rural areas and I am sure most rednecks know more about tools than 99% of this forum. They hunt and fish and drive tractors and do other redneck stuff so it's hilarious to see internet warriors trying to give him advice like "Cut the rod, not your arm HERP DERP"
I'm not surprised half the posts in this thread are about stupid inconsistencies that don't even exist considering the level of critical thinking that some people are displaying. /sigh
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They need to work the black guy from Jericho back into the story ASAP imo (the guy from the first episode with his kid); he's friggin ace!
Actually, thinking about it, this entire show feels very "Jericho" - I can understand why it isn't perhaps everything everyone might have wanted from a show labelled "Zombie Apocolypse"; but frankly I'm loving it so far!
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Hyrule19058 Posts
On November 23 2010 12:31 TheDrill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:33 Colbear wrote:But if they don't immediately headshot the dead sister, i will seriously be angry, and facepalms will abound if she is allowed to "live" and ends up biting someone else. LOL yea, I was banging my head against my desk at that point. "Why doesn't someone grab her? Why isn't Darryl using his crossbow yet?" Emotions? She literally JUST died.
But that's to be expected after the first episode when horse cowboy sheriff, after witnessing Armageddon, just sort of stands around for a good 20 seconds staring at the cheesiest zombie girl. Even if the internet doesn't exist in their universe and nobody has ever heard about zombies, I'm pretty sure any reasonable person would have their epiphany at the bloody destroyed cadaver hospital and have plenty of time to get over it. That was just a body. It's different when bodies start moving around. Also, have you never heard of shock?
I think that in a zombie setting, reality flies out of the window immediately. If you guys ever forget how ridiculous any possible situation is, remember all of these things:
Why don't the two surviving police officers grab full riot gear from the station? Fat lot of good that'll do against thousands of "people". Ever wonder why it's never just 2 cops who go to stop riots, but a whole lot of them?
How the hell does an army outpost get overrun by zombies? Numbers
Don't they have people with automatic guns? Don't they have people with really big guns and years of close combat training? Yes. Yes. But neither of them matter when you've been trained to A) not shoot civilians, and haven't been trained to B) fight zombie hordes. "Don't get bit" isn't standard training.
One thing I'd like explained is how the tank crew became zombified. Those things are NBC sealed and zombies would probably die of cancer caused by the radiation from the depleted uranium plating before even scratching the paint off of the crew hatch. If the crew ever got bored they could just cruise the tank around the whole city, committing zombie genocide with their 60ton steamroller. There's so much wrong with that. First, the top hatch was open so the gunner could....gun. Second, the things need gas. Third, the crew had orders. Soldiers don't cruise around killing things because they get bored. Fourth, depleted anything doesn't have radiation, because it's not radioactive, because it's depleted. Fifth, zombies are already dead, so cancer would not even grow.
Also, why do the survivors think it's a good idea to depopulate their Caribbean, turquoise colored paradise puddle so quickly. The other side of it is literally a skipping stone throw's away. It's pretty amazing how a body of water that small can support so much life. If I was in their position I'd have the sense to either lay as low as possible until at least most of the zombies starved or dehydrated to death, or find some sort of a workable farm to maybe try to get a harvest before winter. The alternative to that seems to be scavenging food in the city, which strikes me as the worst possible option. Am I the only person to actually plan a month ahead in the world? Your plan sucks. They are at a filled in quarry. Quarry lakes do not have natural life in them. The fish in the lake were a stupid plot device to get everyone gathered around the fire at night. The Caribbean is hot and humid, which leads to rapid decomposition of corpses. It's actually quite a good place to go to survive zombies. Nextly, zombies are already dead. They don't require food or water, so trying to wait for them to "starve" or "dehydrate" to death will never work.
This show is the only tv drama I've ever considered watching and it hasn't failed to entertain me yet. That's because everything you expect and think about what should be happening is, in fact, completely wrong.
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Hyrule19058 Posts
On November 23 2010 12:51 Krigwin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 12:31 TheDrill wrote:
Also, why do the survivors think it's a good idea to depopulate their Caribbean, turquoise colored paradise puddle so quickly. The other side of it is literally a skipping stone throw's away. It's pretty amazing how a body of water that small can support so much life. If I was in their position I'd have the sense to either lay as low as possible until at least most of the zombies starved or dehydrated to death, or find some sort of a workable farm to maybe try to get a harvest before winter. The alternative to that seems to be scavenging food in the city, which strikes me as the worst possible option. Am I the only person to actually plan a month ahead in the world? That was the biggest thing. That lake provides so many crucial resources for them other than the drinking water, they were using it for laundry, they could set up a makeshift farm if they scavenge tools and seeds from the city, and as the episode showed the lake is even filled with fish life that they could rely on in a crisis. The logical solution is to set up their camp on the high ground, and using a series of trenches and maybe even fences/walls, cut off the zombies' access to the lake while funneling them into attack lines towards the camp, where the survivors can block them off at critical bottlenecks and with their incredible supply of ammo (or even just melee weapons + crossbow), hold off any horde regardless of size as long as they don't get tired. Now obviously it's not really realistic to expect such militaristic thinking from a bunch of civilians and two small-town cops, but they instead went for like the complete reverse, most stupid set-up possible: a completely open and undefended camp on low, flat ground with entry from every direction and no warning system, guards, or fall-backs in place. At the very least, they should've had at least one lookout, and all adults is armed at all times with melee weapons. They had at least two vehicles including one large trailer, why not push the two vehicles together and then set up ladders so they can retreat up to high ground on the roofs when they're getting swarmed? Instead they had a complete lack of security and preparation so when the inevitable swarm happened, it was total chaos and huge casualties. Granted it's just TV and this is all fancy nit-picking from people who have spent too much time thinking about zombies, but this is a minor gripe of mine.
It's a quarry lake. There's no natural life in there, and at the bottom is all rock. There's no fertile soil to grow food. Plus, trapping yourself at the bottom of a big hole is typically never a good idea.
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On November 23 2010 15:47 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 10:18 Krigwin wrote:
I liked this episode a lot and it was probably the best post-episode 1, but a number of concerns:
1. The whole bit with Merle hacking off his hand. I like that they at least addressed the lack of blood and tried to address the whole bit of why he cut off his hand and not the threaded rod, Really, this needed to be addressed? It's unbelievable to me that there are people here that see a guy with a hacksaw handcuffed to an iron rod and some of them think that he tried to cut off his hand before he tried to cut the rod. I mean what the heck!? I guess it goes to show how stupid some stereotypes are of rednecks that people would think he is so stupid that he would try to cut off his hand before he tried to cut the rod. The irony is that anyone whose brain functions so poorly to think that he would try to cut off his hand before a rod is probably just as slow in the head as the redneck. P.S. rednecks are more likely to live in rural areas and I am sure most rednecks know more about tools than 99% of this forum. They hunt and fish and drive tractors and do other redneck stuff so it's hilarious to see internet warriors trying to give him advice like "Cut the rod, not your arm HERP DERP" I'm not surprised half the posts in this thread are about stupid inconsistencies that don't even exist considering the level of critical thinking that some people are displaying. /sigh
I didn't address it. The episode itself addressed it. Were you not watching the whole first 10 minutes post-intro where they were talking about Merle's likely plan of action? And nobody claims he tried to cut his hand before the rod, rather it seems like he never tried to cut the rod at all, which is exactly the question the episode itself addressed. And it's amusing how while the episode tried to give a real reason why cutting off his hand would be the necessary step, you don't give any and instead are ranting about how rednecks are smarter than everyone thinks they are when no one here made any stereotypes or remarks about his intelligence at all except to propose that maybe under the stress and duress of imminent zombies he made a rash decision.
Are you like, a redneck or the son of a redneck or something? I don't get why you would get so much rage over a simple plot hole/possible plot hole people are discussing. Maybe you should brush up on your own reading comprehension and critical thinking before criticizing others'.
On November 24 2010 01:08 tofucake wrote:
It's a quarry lake. There's no natural life in there, and at the bottom is all rock. There's no fertile soil to grow food. Plus, trapping yourself at the bottom of a big hole is typically never a good idea.
So all the fish they spent the entire episode catching and cooking and eating was just plot magic? Good to know. Also, I meant for them to put their camp on the high ground, you know, where Jim was digging? Not at the bottom of the hole, which is actually pretty close to where they really put their camp? I thought that was pretty obvious when I used the phrase "high ground" and not "right next to the lake".
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On November 23 2010 12:51 Krigwin wrote:
That was the biggest thing. That lake provides so many crucial resources for them other than the drinking water, they were using it for laundry, they could set up a makeshift farm if they scavenge tools and seeds from the city, and as the episode showed the lake is even filled with fish life that they could rely on in a crisis.
I don't know it seems like a really bad spot imho. Places that are easy to defend are hills and mountains surrounded by wide open field, because they provide vision and difficult terrain. But they've built the camp on a wood glade, which is bad and putting a guy on the trailer doesn't help much, because you can't look past the woods and won't see/hear a zillion zombies until they're only a minute away.
Im pretty sure if they looked for it, they could've found a farm house on a hill, barricade all doors/windows and they would be pretty safe or some industrial installation or a good ol' castle..I'm pretty sure that most of them still have functional gates or draw bridges. If they barricade the ground level and use ropes, improvised elevators or rope ladders to get down. There would be nothing a zombie could do, since they can't use tools and won't be able to climb a flat wall.
Smartest thing would probably be to reach the shore or a big lake and get on a ♥♥♥♥ing boat. I'm pretty sure that zombies don't swim well and even if they would..it's almost impossible to climb into a boat without a rope ladder.
Other option would be to head north into the cold. Zombies shouldn't do well there either unless they're a new kind of warm blooded zombies..
Personally I'd prefer the boat. You could sail the seas for weeks and only go back for supplies if you need to and if it looks safe. You don't even need to sail if you pick the right boat and park it at one of those pillars in the middle of the harbor that have no platform near them.
You'd be 100% safe forever, because I doubt that it's possible that the whole harbor gets filled with a sea of zombies that's stable enough to pile them up until they can easily climb on board.^^ And the most important thing you wouldn't have to worry about a zombie ambush during that time since it isn't physically possible to climb it. (if it's big enough and has the right shape...some luxury yachts have a platform on sealevel at the rear..yeah on of those would be bad..xD)
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The zombie "assault" to the camp really doesn't make any sense to me, i understand if maybe two or three zombies wander off into the camp with the bulk of them a couple of hundred meters behind, so the first zombies kill maybe one or two people, they have to shoot them and that atracts all the other zombies, but they made it seem like some sort of coordinated attack, how the hell do some mindless monsters stay so closely packed in such numbers while traveling such distance?
And i don't think the guy with the dream is seer or something like that, when everyone you love dies in such an unexpected way you're bound to question the value of human life and having a dream of people dying in the middle of a zombie apocalypse seems pretty reasonable.
Anyway, the show is sure filled with plot holes but i still enjoy it a lot, is just really fun with all his flaws.
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SPOILERS ABOUT HOW ZOMBIES BEHAVE FROM THE COMIC AHEAD, ONLY READ AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION
+ Show Spoiler +Zombies are attracted mainly by noise and smell, every now and then Dale had to kill a zombie creeping in the camp, usually one every few days.
Their camp sucks, its a static spot where they will generate high levels of noise every now and then, its only a question of time until you get the proc of several zombies creeping in at the same time
Add to that the fact that they were using cars to go back and forth from town to camp, shooting guns on the way, zombies will follow thoese noises, even if they forget what noise they were following, they will keep walking into that distance, if there are other zombies nearby, they will mirror that behavior, until a group of 6 zombies is walking in a straight line for no reason other than be doing it.
Ocasionally these walkers will get close to a camp, listen to people talking or something else, creep in and start eating people
You need a fortification or you will not survive, zombies will get to you everywhere, they are a force of nature and are constantly creeping out of cities into the outside
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/rant
I watched a part of the second episode until i just couldn't stand it anymore. Bad character acting and bad characters in general. Bad scenes. Everything made with an obviously low budget. And the odd behavior of the characters in the episode.. Nothing resembling common sense or behavior that might indicate the will to survive...
/endrant
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Canada9720 Posts
On November 23 2010 15:47 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 10:18 Krigwin wrote:
I liked this episode a lot and it was probably the best post-episode 1, but a number of concerns:
1. The whole bit with Merle hacking off his hand. I like that they at least addressed the lack of blood and tried to address the whole bit of why he cut off his hand and not the threaded rod, Really, this needed to be addressed? It's unbelievable to me that there are people here that see a guy with a hacksaw handcuffed to an iron rod and some of them think that he tried to cut off his hand before he tried to cut the rod. I mean what the heck!? I guess it goes to show how stupid some stereotypes are of rednecks that people would think he is so stupid that he would try to cut off his hand before he tried to cut the rod. The irony is that anyone whose brain functions so poorly to think that he would try to cut off his hand before a rod is probably just as slow in the head as the redneck. P.S. rednecks are more likely to live in rural areas and I am sure most rednecks know more about tools than 99% of this forum. They hunt and fish and drive tractors and do other redneck stuff so it's hilarious to see internet warriors trying to give him advice like "Cut the rod, not your arm HERP DERP" I'm not surprised half the posts in this thread are about stupid inconsistencies that don't even exist considering the level of critical thinking that some people are displaying. /sigh
even though i agree with you that the situation was rather silly, the brother clearly said "I guess the saw was too dull to cut the cuffs" after finding the saw and his brother's hand. so there's the explanation
edit: oh, sorry, i misunderstood your post lol. honestly i do think it's good that they addressed it. i don't think you omit a critical detail like that. given an insane situation (sawing your own hand), all assumptions are off. it's reasonable to doubt the sanity of the person, and question their actions, especially if what happened wasn't explicitly shown during the show (they didn't show the hand-cutting, did they? this is the only episode i've seen)
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Jesus Christ I am so in love with this series.
Oh my GOD
I'll be honest, the first ep was a bit slow for me, I mean it was good it was just.. Really, really slow. But the next 3 episodes picked up the pace so well, especially the 4th one. Holy hell that was good.
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On November 23 2010 10:24 Phonics wrote:
Jim's dream comment at the end sent some bad LOST vibes up my spine.
This series has been great so far imo but what the hell was that dream thing. Hope they won't go down this road. It's like Tassadar in sc2 campaign. Things like that just don't fit into scifi or zombie worlds.
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On November 24 2010 02:36 CTStalker wrote:
edit: oh, sorry, i misunderstood your post lol. honestly i do think it's good that they addressed it. i don't think you omit a critical detail like that. given an insane situation (sawing your own hand), all assumptions are off. it's reasonable to doubt the sanity of the person, and question their actions, especially if what happened wasn't explicitly shown during the show (they didn't show the hand-cutting, did they? this is the only episode i've seen)
They never showed him cutting off his hand, it skips from him trying to reach the hacksaw to Rick's group reaching the roof only to find him already gone, hand left behind.
That's why some people proposed that maybe, under the stress of the zombies trying to break through the padlocked door, Merle, in a fit of desperation, hacked off his hand without thinking of cutting the rod instead. It's possible, given that he was already up there for hours in the direct sun and might have been dehydrated by that point, plus he was already getting delusional and ranting to Jesus.
Unless you know the exact specifications of the hacksaw used and the integrity of the threaded rod the handcuff was cuffed to, it's not unreasonable to say it would be easier to hack through the rod instead of his hand (especially since, ya know, that's kinda what a hacksaw is designed for). Saying that the hacksaw must've been too dull to cut the rod is kind of a hand-wave explanation since if it was so dull, cutting off his hand would've been much harder.
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To me it makes somewhat sense they stay around the lake and close to the city, it makes no sense however that a bunch of reasonable intelligent people including a police officer don't think about a more defendable location, security measures, walling and a around the clock lookout. Yes they had a string with cans on it...but really? You're gonna trust a string with cans, which apparently did nothing, with your live. If it was me I would be 'paranoid' and make sure that whatever comes up gets noticed.
As far as the will to survive go I think its there but you don't necessary see it yet. I mean if you just lost everyone you love, your spouse, your children, your friends, your family, your dog...sorry for not looking more fierce and enthusiastic in my will to survive just so I can live another day to think about everything I lost.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 24 2010 02:40 Spidinko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 10:24 Phonics wrote:
Jim's dream comment at the end sent some bad LOST vibes up my spine. This series has been great so far imo but what the hell was that dream thing. Hope they won't go down this road. It's like Tassadar in sc2 campaign. Things like that just don't fit into scifi or zombie worlds.
I really don't think they're going to go down any supernatural powers path, it was just a sort of "oh so that's why he acted crazy, he had a nightmare about this... and having just experienced it myself I don't blame him for losing it"
I thought it was the perfect icing on the cake to that extremely violent and traumatizing but dramatic and powerful scene
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EPT
