[Movie] Inception - Page 30

So on the third layer Fishcer gets shot by Mal and dies, right? And when he dies he goes into limbo. Then how do Cobb and Ariadne get to limbo by going to sleep? Wouldn't they have to die themselves? And then once they get to limbo how does cobb find saito? Mal stabs him when he's in limbo... so..... he goes into a further limbo?

I suppose Fischer going into limbo is equivalent to progressing another level. So by going to sleep, Cobb and Ariadne were meeting him there. I read somewhere about the idea that even though they were supposed to be progressing deeper into Fischer's subconscious, they were simultaneously unraveling more of Cobb's subconscious as well. We know from Cobb's story that limbo is where Cobb and Mal spent fifty years building that huge city. So I guess when Fischer entered into limbo, it was actually linked with Cobb so he ended up there.

I have no idea how in the world Cobb found Saito. Saito dying in the first level makes sense with his being so old in whatever level he ended up on. Cobb's arrival on the beach means that he somehow re-arrived back at his subconscious?

Ok, I only now realize that I'm probably messing up the use of subconscious and limbo so i hope someone else can clear this up.



I have my own question:

When Cobb and Mal entered limbo, where exactly were they? Cobb messed with the spinning top in Mal's childhood house, which was in the middle of the big city (supposed to be limbo right?). Why was her house and her safe there? Does that mean they entered Mal's subconscious? Was that a joint subconscious between Cobb and Mal?

Wtf is going on?!

Mal is dead, she was never in the movie. Everytime you see her it's just Cobbs projection of her. I would think the reason for the location in the last place is this. First of all to awnser were they were. They were on the top of a skyscraper in the city that Mal and Cobb made when they were there the first time. The projection of Mal is very very strong in Cobb so when they enter his creation it creates a compromise. They are at the top of a skyscraper so that they can experience a falling sensation (This is what Cobb wanted himself) yet they are in her old house because that's what the projection of Mal wanted.

Oh, I'm aware that Mal died before the movie began. I'm talking about in his explaining what he did (spin the top in Mal's safe). It showed him opening the safe in Mal's childhood house in the world that Mal and Cobb were in during their fifty years in limbo. That's what confuses me. How does limbo work out? How come they both could design the place? I thought only the person whose subconscious they were in could do that. For example when Cobb and Ariadne were in Ariadne's subconscious for that "another five minutes", Ariadne could change the world at her own whim.

My questions in the last spoiler were referring to the fifty years of limbo that they shared.

But when they go into limbo (the place with mal and fishcer) is saito there too? Or does Cobb have to die (get stabbed by mal) and go even deeper to find saito? Also, how the fuck does fischer come back to life after getting shot? And what's the point of falling when they're in limbo (when fishcer gets thrown off the building and Ariadne jumps)? They already explained that the kick has to be on the level above where they are to get back up (i.e. to wake up from the hotel they get the kick from the van hitting the water)

That can be explained by the fact that everyone seems to be in charge in limbo, it seems like a collective realm were lost persons end up. Or It could just be that one of them were the actual creator and they just used the term "We" because both of them created the world in their head but only one did it in the dream. That could explain why all of the places that was precious to Mal was so run down. If Cobb had to create them from her memories they wouldn't be perfect and their decay could be an indication of that.That would explain the lack of people since Mal is dead there would be nobody to populate it. But that really would be a stretch seeing some other sceens in the movie.

I don't really like the "Limbo" the rules seems to change for no apparent reason, so I really prefer the other explanation.

I believe limbo exists within someone else's mind, and it's created by the mind of the person who dies within someone else's dream. More explained below...

I think it's extremely important to remember whose dream it is during each "level" of the story. I can't remember whether the airplane ride from Sydney to LAX was taking place in a dream, but I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be in "reality."

--
in here I tried to remember each dream level and who was dreaming each level, but I got confused, so I scrapped it. If anyone can fill in the blank here's a rough idea, and also a nice format for you to follow if you could be so inclined:

Reality - The Airplane (Cobb/God? lol)
Dream 1 - The Van (Fischer)
Dream 2 - The Hotel (Cobb/Arthur?)
Dream 3 - Snow Fortress (Fischer/Cobb/Eames????)
Dream 4 - Skyscraper Land (Cobb? Ariadne?)
Dream 5?- "Limbo" (Cobb)
--

Anyway, throughout the movie there's a lot of talk about trying to get the human mind to dream within a dream within a dream. And they eventually figure out that they can use a sedative to prevent the body from responding to anything too stimulating and waking up prematurely.

But Cobb has already done this with Mal. And somehow one or both of them died prematurely and fell into limbo. This is what happens to Wantanabe/Saito in "the van" dream. Saito is sedated in "reality" so he can't wake up by dying in "dream 1." So he'll fall into limbo if his mind believes that he's dead within someone else's dream. This idea of limbo is very important because when you fall into limbo, your reality exists within someone else's dream/mind.

So when Saito ended up dying he was in one of the dream levels, and I think that made him in Cobb's limbo, meaning in Cobb's dream/mind. So in order to get Saito to wake up on the plane, Cobb had to return to his own limbo, or maybe the 3rd dream state (meaning his own "3rd level", which I think can be any number of levels down because someone else could dream state 1 and another could dream state 2 and you could dream 3,4,5 yourself...) and he had to find Saito to bring him back to the airplane. I think that Cobb used his infinite spinning top to create Cobb/Saito's "extra kick" that they used to return after the planned kick of the van falling into the water which allowed them to return to reality after everyone else.

Don't read if you understand the time difference thing:
Of course, the time difference between levels was so vast that Wantanabe/Saito probably lived an entire lifetime or maybe repeated lifetimes over and over until DiCaprio/Cobb finally showed up to bring him back with the top. The time difference is due to the idea that the mind processes a lot faster while we dream, so if we dream within a dream which our mind perceives as reality, it speeds up even more. This layered dreaming is how Cobb, Mal and Saito were all able to live entirely separate lives within probably hours in real time.

Uhh what the fuck? No. All the levels belonged to Fischer, they were all his dreams. The idea of the whole movie was to plant an idea in his mind through his dreams, how the hell are you going to do that if it's not his dreams, genius?

They say limbo is a place where you grow old and die alone, and I think the reason for this is your subconscious doesnt populate it with projections, therefor only people who dream together and get that deep are in it. The reason the house and safe was there is they buildt their city in limbo, and started using real places from their memory. That made mal forget that limbo wasnt real. Her subconscious was safe in her house with the safe, so thats where her deepest thoughts are. Cobb knew it wasnt real, but Mal started to belive it. Cobb wanted Mal to realise it wasnt real so he planted the spinning top in her "mind safe" so it would grow in her thoughts for her to know it wasnt real. It did and they commited suicide with the train. This was also the reason she jumped from the window.

And to the other one, Cobb drowned in the car that hit the water (in the first dream), thats how he ended up in limbo to get Saito

The dreamer controls the dream, the subject populates it. Fischer was the subject of all the dreams, but never the dreamer.

Saito's limbo was populated, he had guards and such.