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RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
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Come on, NA + 3. You can beat NA + 1, I know you can.
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On January 29 2016 01:41 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:33 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:29 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:17 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:14 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:06 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:
[quote]
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery. Not sure how you counter what I am saying. No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point. I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail. If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times. Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle? When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG? Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry. You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry. to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s. I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated. If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart. Again pick another carry since EE has done that before it's not unique, though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE then i can understand. Nah you're not better either. I didn't flame , you intentionally did though even though you could've just confirmed/expanded and clarified it afterwards if you are really confident of what you said that's how you respond smartly. You are the only one who tried to flame, in lack of something worthwhile to say, while you are still confirming what I said, and now do it again.
definitely not true
Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying
Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame. Pretty sure i'm the one saying things worthwhile here that's actually related to it.
It's either you are trying to dodge the point covering the shame or you didn't even read my explanation at all since you are biased
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"Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
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You pretty much cheery picked you didn't even read the entire sentence
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On January 29 2016 01:49 goody153 wrote:
You pretty much cheery picked you didn't even read the entire sentence All of it are confirms of you agreeing with me at the end of the day,while somehow feel offended, while saying things never said.
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On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote:
"Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
lmao are you actually trying to divert now that we talking about "tilting" even though we are talking about "1 position being sacked"
you even started the topic and i responded on the topic so you avoided to discuss the topic that i am discussing which you started.
You are actually dodging the discussion. Why did i even bother to try to discuss to a discussion you started that you don't even plan on discussing at all
it's definitely just some stupid declaration you made without basis you can't back it up so you have to resort to diverting the attention to it
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On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote:
RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
Most of Secret's successful Ember games last patch weren't 4p1, they were dual core Ember+WR/SF/Meepo/occasional Invoker or something.
Though of course it is true that EE isn't exactly known for playing heroes that farm some early key item and start to get kills, most of his heroes need to be farmed to stay effective in the game as it goes later. But again, this doesn't necessarily mean his laning stage is going to get secured. For example quite a few of the Ember games they played last patch were such that EE's lane wasn't great or anything (though partly due to the frequent dual lanes and stuff), and he just caught up later on.
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On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote:
"Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
I understand you got that danish bias and all but come on man, Notail doesnt tilt ? have you not watche the famous LD game from him, or the ET game this tournament ? Be reasonable. No player in the world never tilts. Maybe Miracle doesnt but thats why hes undisputed best player in the world.
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On January 29 2016 01:54 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote:
"Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument. I understand you got that danish bias and all but come on man, Notail doesnt tilt ? have you not watche the famous LD game from him, or the ET game this tournament ? Be reasonable. No player in the world never tilts. Maybe Miracle doesnt but thats why hes undisputed best player in the world.
Notail's not even effective at his role. He pretty much gets carried by crit, moon and miracle (i don;t often notice fly's impact but he's gucchi he's the captain and drafter)
And it's not even like Fear like stability or like how much loda fits in the carry role of alliance despite him not being superb in the role. He's like out of place and not very good as a 1 position granted he's new to the role but saying he doesn't tilt PLZ. He's not even doing role well compared to others.
If the members think he's vital to their team then it's probably the shot calling or creating a great team atmosphere but not as a 1 position for sure.
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On January 29 2016 00:38 hfglgg wrote:
i think sumail has shown in the past that he can play the playmaking role well. i remember some extremely good magnus games and at least one amazing puck game (still lost, because puck). at the moment i would pinpoint egs weakness in a lack of heroes suiting them. they dont have a good es or chen player and i dont think sumails invoker is as good as other top players (i.e. miracle or w33ha). ultimately i dont think they have a go to pick they can safely play and rely on raw skill to get into a favourable position.
Sumail can run "playmaker" Mids quite fine. His signature heroes do that, though it's normally as a damage initiator. We saw what happened with Lina in game 2 against Ehome. But any time they've run him as Batrider, if EG doesn't get out to a big lead, they normally end up without enough damage. The problem becomes they don't run Universe on the right heroes to go with a Sumail Batrider.
If they picked up the Batrider again, I'd like to see Universe on a Timbersaw or Weaver. Heck, even a Broodmother might work well. They need a 2nd Core damage dealer with Sumail on Batrider or Puck. Raid-Boss Hard Carries are pretty much the domain of over-farmed Anti-mage right now. Granted, they could do that as well.
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On January 29 2016 01:52 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote:
"Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument. lmao are you actually trying to divert now that we talking about "tilting" even though we are talking about "1 position being sacked" you even started the topic and i responded on the topic so you avoided to discuss the topic that i am discussing which you started. You are actually dodging the discussion. Why did i even bother to try to discuss to a discussion you started that you don't even plan on discussing at all it's definitely just some stupid declaration you made without basis you can't back it up so you have to resort to diverting the attention to it Not sure how I am dodging it, when you confirm that they are suffering, it is not part of their plan, and your counter is talking about C9, where EE tilted galore, and you said he needed to leave lane because he was suffering.
Not sure why you continue to self-image project. As it stands my argument is clear while you fill yours with nothing but being butthurt.
You better stop. I have already quoted your agreements with me.
I am not diverting. You claimed I was saying EE sucked, when I did no such thing.
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On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote:
RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny.
You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams.
He plays carries with a lot of fighting capacity early on. Gyro and PL are prime examples. We've also seen him play Brew a fair bit, a hero on which he stops farming creeps on almost entirely after getting blink dagger, leaving the remaining farm to moon. It's not an accident that he farms less in these games.
Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed.
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On January 29 2016 01:56 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:54 Super_Style wrote:On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote:
"Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument. I understand you got that danish bias and all but come on man, Notail doesnt tilt ? have you not watche the famous LD game from him, or the ET game this tournament ? Be reasonable. No player in the world never tilts. Maybe Miracle doesnt but thats why hes undisputed best player in the world. Notail's not even effective at his role. He pretty much gets carried by crit, moon and miracle (i often notice fly's impact but he's gucchi he's the captain and drafter) And it's not even like Fear like stability or like how much loda fits in the carry role of alliance despite him not being superb in the role. He's like out of place and not very good as a 1 position granted he's new to the role but saying he doesn't tilt pls
Fly is hard 6, the shallow grave dazzle or suicide swap venge, he does his job well. Also notail was the best midlaner in the history or HoN, carry role is not that strange to him, you can see how alohadance switched to it in a day and his already better then xboct was for the past year or 2.
What i want to say is that xboct and notail were good carries... 5 years ago and not now.
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4665 Posts
Yeah.this pretty much. I haven't seen how notail fits into this og team .most of the time ,I just see 4 of them doing dumb stuff around the map just to get carried by miracle late game and if that fails,we get a mediocre team with no farm on rest 4 who can't do anything because miracle ate all jungle creeps and couldn't carry us.at major also,their most of success was around protetcing miracle farm by picking 2 defensive supports and cold embracing and graving in every fight.
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Not sure how I am dodging it,
Are you serious ? You literally did not address any actual discussion about the "sacked 1 position" that i addressed. You
You avoided talking about sacked lanes for 1 position at all, you talked about "tilting" which the claim you made isn't even true. You didn't talk about the topic a all you just switched topic
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On January 29 2016 02:01 haxhax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote:
RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD. He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny. You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams. Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed. Glad someone knows what they are talking about.
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4665 Posts
Lolfail was needed here for this discussion .
Isn't it obvious that he will try to defend his flair? I can see no point of sense in it
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Yeah why did i even try to discuss the topic he opened. He just kept beating around the bush and avoided the main topic discussion diverted it to another topic.
At least with acritter he actually discusses shit even though we have differing points.
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EPT
