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On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying
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On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
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On January 29 2016 00:56 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
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EE is the type of a carry who needs space for himself to carry his team late game which was a case for most of c9 games.
BTW,what the hell was puppey doing top lane while envy was easily winning top lane and w33/was losing his lane hard?I mean he seriously could have tped to save w33
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On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying, but more confirm the problem.
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On January 29 2016 01:01 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:56 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
Not willing is just a playstyle difference like how LGD and EG would make sure to give rtz and Sylar the farm they need.
But saying they never do that is untrue for EE has done that shit too many times even going back to the old c9 days with him playing doom with sing.
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On January 29 2016 01:03 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery. Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
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On January 29 2016 01:01 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 00:56 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
What does "not willingly" even mean when sacrificing in this case means making a conscious decision to not help his lane or putting him in a harder lane to give someone else room. Seems pretty willingly to me
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On January 29 2016 01:06 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery. Not sure how you counter what I am saying. No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point. I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail. If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times. Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle?
When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG?
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On January 29 2016 01:07 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:01 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:56 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice. What does "not willingly" even mean when sacrificing in this case means making a conscious decision to not help his lane or putting him in a harder lane to give someone else room. Seems pretty willingly to me If you don't gain objectives in the process, it doesn't cater to the greater gameplan.
If it hurts their gameplan, it is not good. What is hard to understand?
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On January 29 2016 01:14 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:06 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery. Not sure how you counter what I am saying. No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point. I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail. If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times. Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle? When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG?
Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry.
You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry.
to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did
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It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
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On January 29 2016 01:15 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:07 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:01 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:56 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either. w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice. What does "not willingly" even mean when sacrificing in this case means making a conscious decision to not help his lane or putting him in a harder lane to give someone else room. Seems pretty willingly to me If you don't gain objectives in the process, it doesn't cater to the greater gameplan. If it hurts their gameplan, it is not good. What is hard to understand?
Giving someone else more room whose early farm or levels are important caters to the gameplan. Using w33 to fight once he gets his early key level on ES caters to the gameplan. I'm still not agreeing with the way you described things.
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On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote:
It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I didn't even try to argue i was trying to discuss but he pretty much suddenly did a "EE sucks and how do you respond to that" like whaatt . He didn't even defend his point nor try to discuss about it. It's either he doesn't know shit about it or is intentionally baiting for weird reason(very unlikely) ?
Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position alot but it's completely a lie to say that he doesn't since he did that before alot. There were even games his lane was so hard he had to stay in the jungle alot.
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On January 29 2016 01:17 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:14 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:06 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
[quote]
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery. Not sure how you counter what I am saying. No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point. I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail. If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times. Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle? When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG? Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry. You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry. to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s.
I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated.
If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart.
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On January 29 2016 01:29 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:17 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:14 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:06 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:
[quote]
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery. Not sure how you counter what I am saying. No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point. I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail. If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times. Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle? When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG? Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry. You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry. to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s. I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated. If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart.
Again pick another carry since EE has done that before it's not unique, though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE then i can understand.
Nah you're not better either. I didn't flame , you intentionally did though even though you could've just confirmed/expanded and clarified it afterwards if you are really confident of what you said that's how you respond smartly.
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What you said now is very different from what you started with. You started with players not wanting to do something n0tail is willing to do. What you said now is that OG sometimes sacrifice him to accomplish stuff elsewhere better than EG or Secret, which is probably true. That is related to how the entire team plays the early game.
On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote:
It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
This is not directly related to whether you get sacced or not early. If you are not important necessarily to your team's fighting strength early on, it can be better to give someone else more space first. The carry can then catch up after the lanes even if he suffered a bit if the team is overall doing well.
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On January 29 2016 01:25 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote:
It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing. I didn't even try to argue i was trying to discuss but he pretty much suddenly did a "EE sucks and how do you respond to that" like whaatt . He didn't even defend his point nor try to discuss about it. It's either he doesn't know shit about it or is intentionally baiting for weird reason(very unlikely) ? Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position alot but it's completely a lie to say that he doesn't since he did that before alot. There were even games his lane was so hard he had to stay in the jungle alot. You insert things never said. I have never said neither W33ha nor EE sucks. Or even Sumail nor RTZ for that matter.
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On January 29 2016 01:35 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:25 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote:
It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing. I didn't even try to argue i was trying to discuss but he pretty much suddenly did a "EE sucks and how do you respond to that" like whaatt . He didn't even defend his point nor try to discuss about it. It's either he doesn't know shit about it or is intentionally baiting for weird reason(very unlikely) ? Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position alot but it's completely a lie to say that he doesn't since he did that before alot. There were even games his lane was so hard he had to stay in the jungle alot. You insert things never said. I have never said neither W33ha nor EE sucks. Or even Sumail nor RTZ for that matter.
The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying
also this is how you responded to my response lmao
Not true at all. Also basically what spuddle says
On January 29 2016 01:35 spudde123 wrote:
What you said now is very different from what you started with. You started with players not wanting to do something n0tail is willing to do.
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On January 29 2016 01:33 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 01:29 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:17 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:14 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:06 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 01:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:59 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:53 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
[quote]
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe) Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc. PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. T he difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same. Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days. w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret. I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery. Not sure how you counter what I am saying. No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point. I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail. If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times. Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle? When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG? Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry. You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry. to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s. I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated. If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart. Again pick another carry since EE has done that before it's not unique, though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE then i can understand. Nah you're not better either. I didn't flame , you intentionally did though even though you could've just confirmed/expanded and clarified it afterwards if you are really confident of what you said that's how you respond smartly. You are the only one who tried to flame, in lack of something worthwhile to say, while you are still confirming what I said, and now do it again.
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EPT
