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[MDL] Winter 2015 Playoffs Day 1 - Page 33

Forum Index > Dota 2 Tournaments
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Kamisamanachi
Profile Joined April 2015
4665 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 15:26:29
January 28 2016 15:23 GMT
#641
On January 29 2016 00:10 Super_Style wrote:
Its time secret fans, rtz's time in eg is over, hes back with puppy and his bf zai, misery back to 4 and w33 mid.
Easy TI.


People said same about secret last year. Lmao.and misery is more toxic than kuroky.a ticking bomb .placing rtz and misery in same team is pretty deadly
fan of dream runs. orange ti3 , fnatic ti6 , wings ti6 , cdec ti5 !! B-god's anti mage , mushi's shadow fiend
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 15:26:23
January 28 2016 15:26 GMT
#642
PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.
LiangHao
brinepumps
Profile Joined February 2015
Indonesia753 Posts
January 28 2016 15:28 GMT
#643
Let's stop slating secret and start praising OG instead.

Miracle what a player
"if you don't believe you can do it, then you have no chance at all" - Arsene Wenger
Kamisamanachi
Profile Joined April 2015
4665 Posts
January 28 2016 15:29 GMT
#644
To be fair,rtz and sumail pretty much have same strengths which are pretty bad for this patch .this patch needs a spacemaking mid or a mid whih can go with the rest of the team in mid game.idk if sumail can do that pretty often.also,universe just doesn't feel in any of their drafts.
fan of dream runs. orange ti3 , fnatic ti6 , wings ti6 , cdec ti5 !! B-god's anti mage , mushi's shadow fiend
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
January 28 2016 15:31 GMT
#645
On January 29 2016 00:28 brinepumps wrote:
Let's stop slating secret and start praising OG instead.

Miracle what a player
That sounds like singling out a player, when it is a team effort, that put him in these positions.
LiangHao
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
January 28 2016 15:31 GMT
#646
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote:
PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.

Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 15:41:11
January 28 2016 15:38 GMT
#647
On January 29 2016 00:31 babysimba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote:
PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.

Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
Not sure how that is Sadboys style, when RTZ was a midfarmer galore, and Fear being his versatile and unselfish self. Sumail and RTZ on the same team is a different beast. That being said, they should do that, but that would require them to be willing to let Sumail suffer for the greater good, when needed. As it stands they are sitting between two stools, while giving either one or both a hero where they don't shine, or try to make them both shine, hurting objectives.
LiangHao
hfglgg
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany5372 Posts
January 28 2016 15:38 GMT
#648
i think sumail has shown in the past that he can play the playmaking role well. i remember some extremely good magnus games and at least one amazing puck game (still lost, because puck). at the moment i would pinpoint egs weakness in a lack of heroes suiting them. they dont have a good es or chen player and i dont think sumails invoker is as good as other top players (i.e. miracle or w33ha). ultimately i dont think they have a go to pick they can safely play and rely on raw skill to get into a favourable position.
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 15:41:28
January 28 2016 15:40 GMT
#649
On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.

w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment

of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still


Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw

regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens

morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore

alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
posting on liquid sites in current year
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44127 Posts
January 28 2016 15:41 GMT
#650
I thought suma1l excel at playmaking roles the most, lina/lesh/storm/qop/ember can farm but all of those kinda makes plays. It is something rtz no longer fulfills since he get powerfarmers even with midheroes.
this is a quote
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
January 28 2016 15:43 GMT
#651
i bet sumail doom is the answer
posting on liquid sites in current year
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 15:51:37
January 28 2016 15:43 GMT
#652
Just woke up.

Might be a tournament in which we can't actually count on Americans to win it, though no reason to count them out yet, given their traditional need to play from the lower group. The team does appear to have actual problems. One less ego, one more championship, etc.

But in before another Western team wins it any way. That's what's cool about not just having one team that's top class. Teams, after all, rise and fall every year, but the conditions that produced them don't change as frequently.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
January 28 2016 15:43 GMT
#653
On January 29 2016 00:38 Dracolich70 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 00:31 babysimba wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote:
PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.

Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
Not sure how that is Sadboys style, when RTZ was a midfarmer galore, and Fear being his versatile and unselfish self. Sumail and RTZ on the same team is a different beast. That being said, they should do that, but that would require them to be willing to let Sumail suffer for the greater good, when needed. As it stands they are sitting between two stools, while giving either one or both a hero where they don't shine, or try to make them both shine, hurting objectives.

Pure spacemaking hero. Literally S4 style, not the Sumail type of tempo heroes that still require shit tons of farm. It's not Sumail best playing style but he's still top tier on it.
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 15:48:38
January 28 2016 15:44 GMT
#654
On January 29 2016 00:38 hfglgg wrote:
i think sumail has shown in the past that he can play the playmaking role well. i remember some extremely good magnus games and at least one amazing puck game (still lost, because puck). at the moment i would pinpoint egs weakness in a lack of heroes suiting them. they dont have a good es or chen player and i dont think sumails invoker is as good as other top players (i.e. miracle or w33ha). ultimately i dont think they have a go to pick they can safely play and rely on raw skill to get into a favourable position.
They opted to let him snowball in order to create that space.

Yes, they are somewhat limited, even if Fear can play anything. PPD can't, and Sumail needs snowball heroes.

On January 29 2016 00:43 babysimba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 00:38 Dracolich70 wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:31 babysimba wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote:
PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.

Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
Not sure how that is Sadboys style, when RTZ was a midfarmer galore, and Fear being his versatile and unselfish self. Sumail and RTZ on the same team is a different beast. That being said, they should do that, but that would require them to be willing to let Sumail suffer for the greater good, when needed. As it stands they are sitting between two stools, while giving either one or both a hero where they don't shine, or try to make them both shine, hurting objectives.

Pure spacemaking hero. Literally S4 style, not the Sumail type of tempo heroes that still require shit tons of farm. It's not Sumail best playing style but he's still top tier on it.
s4 is also willing to sacrifice himself, buying time for either Loda and/or Bulldong.
LiangHao
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
January 28 2016 15:48 GMT
#655
On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.

w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment

of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still


Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw

regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens

morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore

alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)


Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44127 Posts
January 28 2016 15:49 GMT
#656
i remember ppd said DAC interview that suma1l performs the same role as rtz
this is a quote
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
January 28 2016 15:49 GMT
#657
On January 28 2016 21:03 Daralii wrote:
Even number year. Like clockwork, China begins to rise.


But they haven't won a tournament yet in 2016, and we've had one already.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
January 28 2016 15:49 GMT
#658
And fear is just not on par with the rest of EG when playing support, tbh they should sack RTZ and get fear back on pos1. He was extremely versatile and had a huge heropool.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
January 28 2016 15:53 GMT
#659
On January 29 2016 00:48 spudde123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:14 spudde123 wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote:
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.

w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment

of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still


Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw

regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens

morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore

alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)


Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
LiangHao
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
January 28 2016 15:53 GMT
#660
On January 29 2016 00:49 Azarkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2016 21:03 Daralii wrote:
Even number year. Like clockwork, China begins to rise.


But they haven't won a tournament yet in 2016, and we've had one already.

stop impersonating nahaz
FTD
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