Streams are terrible for me and run at about 2-3 fps, which just isn't tolerable/watchable. Also azubu seems to be lacking an option to change stream-quality, unless I missed something?
Like in sc2 though, some players thrived off playing lots of matches back to back. IdrA always used to say he loved that, even some Korean's did. However i agree not everyone likes that and it can be a disadvantage to others.
On January 28 2016 18:58 Pandemona wrote: Like in sc2 though, some players thrived off playing lots of matches back to back. IdrA always used to say he loved that, even some Korean's did. However i agree not everyone likes that and it can be a disadvantage to others.
On January 28 2016 20:18 StarMoon wrote: honestly I think EG's draft is too greedy and generally shit
Like what is their teamfight exactly aside from invoker?
Vac Wall, Terrorblade things. I guess and Tusk job would have been to take WD out the game.
Only problem i have with EG is PPD runs Vengeful every fucking game. It is ok when PPD plays it but he picks it because it can be used for RTZ when they need to stop doing that and go back to Dazzle times if u want to first pick something like that TT
On January 28 2016 20:21 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD just picks what worked for EU teams in a melting pot.
Which is annoying as on their run in StarLadder they had their own style. Enigma jungle, or Universe faceless. they can't both be banned and they would draft around that and do good. They lost vs Alliance trying to beat Alliance tactics instead of trying to force theirs onto them. Come to this lan without any idea how they want to play it seems
On January 28 2016 20:18 StarMoon wrote: honestly I think EG's draft is too greedy and generally shit
Like what is their teamfight exactly aside from invoker/ds combo? And good luck getting that off vs fissure and chrono.
Tusk, Invoker and DS have lots of teamfight. I assume they wanted to time Terrorblade's Metamorphosis (always having venge's aura) for those fights. If you miss a farmed invoker with your crono he can obviously mess things up for you.
Not saying they drafted well, but I can see them having good teamfights with farm.
On January 28 2016 20:21 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD just picks what worked for EU teams in a melting pot.
Which is annoying as on their run in StarLadder they had their own style. Enigma jungle, or Universe faceless. they can't both be banned and they would draft around that and do good. They lost vs Alliance trying to beat Alliance tactics instead of trying to force theirs onto them. Come to this lan without any idea how they want to play it seems
Yes, pretty much. Still don't think they have found their own style, and doubt they are gonna with PPD as captain, as he is so focused on copying others, and force it on his team, rather than playing to their own strengths.
On January 28 2016 20:24 Kipsate wrote: actually I am suprised that we haven't seen a single Enigma(?) out of EG this tournament so far, they seem to be extremely strong with it
Sorry guys, I couldn't update the thread on time since I'm at work atm. The polls for recommended games are up. Feel free to vote so I know what to watch later
On January 28 2016 20:24 Kipsate wrote: actually I am suprised that we haven't seen a single Enigma(?) out of EG this tournament so far, they seem to be extremely strong with it
mb save strats for LB lol.
They played Enigma vs OG, and got stomped.
They didn't get stomped. OG had the most stupidly defensive High Ground Defense to fall back on, and managed to play the defense really well. OG got crushed most of that game.
On January 28 2016 20:21 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD just picks what worked for EU teams in a melting pot.
Which is annoying as on their run in StarLadder they had their own style. Enigma jungle, or Universe faceless. they can't both be banned and they would draft around that and do good. They lost vs Alliance trying to beat Alliance tactics instead of trying to force theirs onto them. Come to this lan without any idea how they want to play it seems
Yes, pretty much. Still don't think they have found their own style, and doubt they are gonna with PPD as captain, as he is so focused on copying others, and force it on his team, rather than playing to their own strengths.
Huh? He's reinvented the way his team plays multiple times to fit their strengths (most notably sadboys with rtz sf/naga/etc., then with sumail + aui), going against what was popular at the time in doing so. They've been struggling for a while, but 'copying others' is hardly one of ppd's deifning traits.
On January 28 2016 20:24 Kipsate wrote: actually I am suprised that we haven't seen a single Enigma(?) out of EG this tournament so far, they seem to be extremely strong with it
mb save strats for LB lol.
They played Enigma vs OG, and got stomped.
They didn't get stomped. OG had the most stupidly defensive High Ground Defense to fall back on, and managed to play the defense really well. OG got crushed most of that game.
Eh, what? They won the lanes, and then got a 5 man wipe to get back into the game, and then lost.
On January 28 2016 20:21 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD just picks what worked for EU teams in a melting pot.
Which is annoying as on their run in StarLadder they had their own style. Enigma jungle, or Universe faceless. they can't both be banned and they would draft around that and do good. They lost vs Alliance trying to beat Alliance tactics instead of trying to force theirs onto them. Come to this lan without any idea how they want to play it seems
Yes, pretty much. Still don't think they have found their own style, and doubt they are gonna with PPD as captain, as he is so focused on copying others, and force it on his team, rather than playing to their own strengths.
This is actually not true .... but whatever ......
On January 28 2016 20:24 Kipsate wrote: actually I am suprised that we haven't seen a single Enigma(?) out of EG this tournament so far, they seem to be extremely strong with it
mb save strats for LB lol.
They played Enigma vs OG, and got stomped.
They didn't get stomped. OG had the most stupidly defensive High Ground Defense to fall back on, and managed to play the defense really well. OG got crushed most of that game.
Eh, what? They won the lanes, and then got a 5 man wipe to get back into the game, and then lost.
wasn't really a stomp though, felt like miracle had to do some 8k mmr shit to pull out that win
Morphling is a fairly slow hero, you need to hold on to lategame(and a lot of the times from a disadvantage) which is not something that they like to do very much. Even carries such as Spectre or LD are more active early.
On January 28 2016 20:32 Kipsate wrote: Morphling is a fairly slow hero, you need to hold on to lategame(and a lot of the times from a disadvantage) which is not something that they like to do very much. Even carries such as Spectre or LD are more active early.
i dunno, in all of the games i've seen it seems morphling can easily 1v1 a lot of lanes with minimal help, and start applying pressure and just constnat splitpush while his +4 does work
like it doesnt feel like his presence hamstrings his team too much
On January 28 2016 20:24 Kipsate wrote: actually I am suprised that we haven't seen a single Enigma(?) out of EG this tournament so far, they seem to be extremely strong with it
mb save strats for LB lol.
They played Enigma vs OG, and got stomped.
They didn't get stomped. OG had the most stupidly defensive High Ground Defense to fall back on, and managed to play the defense really well. OG got crushed most of that game.
Eh, what? They won the lanes, and then got a 5 man wipe to get back into the game, and then lost.
wasn't really a stomp though, felt like miracle had to do some 8k mmr shit to pull out that win
I mentioned the good things for EG in that game. Moon killed them at will, so not sure about the Miracle focus, but whatever.
On January 28 2016 20:24 Kipsate wrote: actually I am suprised that we haven't seen a single Enigma(?) out of EG this tournament so far, they seem to be extremely strong with it
mb save strats for LB lol.
They played Enigma vs OG, and got stomped.
They didn't get stomped. OG had the most stupidly defensive High Ground Defense to fall back on, and managed to play the defense really well. OG got crushed most of that game.
Eh, what? They won the lanes, and then got a 5 man wipe to get back into the game, and then lost.
wasn't really a stomp though, felt like miracle had to do some 8k mmr shit to pull out that win
I mentioned the good things for EG in that game. Moon killed them at will, so not sure about the Miracle focus, but whatever.
He mistook game 1 for game 2, game 1 was miracle going full 8k mmr, game 2 was the enigma game and it was a very close and even one that ended after 50 mins, certainly not a stomp. He was right about the HG defense though.
On January 28 2016 20:47 HammerKick wrote: Alright i am a sad person who can't warch the games. Quick recap please?
Not sure how u sum up game 1. Facless Viper and Morphlin all top 3 in CS charts very early. Invoker Terror and DarkSeer got nothing. EHOME push and killed who they wanted from minute 3, EG got nothing at all done and tapped out in 16 minutes.
On January 28 2016 20:50 Kipsate wrote: Morph absolutely wrecks Drow Ranger cause of EB lategame so I think EG has this if they don't lose within 30-40
That should not happen with this start too (lose early) unless Viper becomes tank god with his mek
On January 28 2016 20:50 Kipsate wrote: Morph absolutely wrecks Drow Ranger cause of EB lategame so I think EG has this if they don't lose within 30-40
i don't even think that drow even wins 1v1 rightclick duel with him
On January 28 2016 20:50 Kipsate wrote: Morph absolutely wrecks Drow Ranger cause of EB lategame so I think EG has this if they don't lose within 30-40
i don't even think that drow even wins 1v1 rightclick duel with him
True but Morph p much eliminates Drow from the fight.
On January 28 2016 20:50 Kipsate wrote: Morph absolutely wrecks Drow Ranger cause of EB lategame so I think EG has this if they don't lose within 30-40
i don't even think that drow even wins 1v1 rightclick duel with him
True but Morph p much eliminates Drow from the fight.
now that i realized ehome picks
there's no way rtz actually dies if he gets manta and linkens
On January 28 2016 20:57 Kipsate wrote: U play a deahtball push strat
u buy a midas on drow
???????????
It's actually not terrible if you're going to go as early as they are; not so much for the gold but to help with xp that he'd be sorely lacking otherwise.
On January 28 2016 21:10 goody153 wrote: does illusions get flying vision from NS ? or at least does morphling illusion aghs or no aghs illusion get NS flying vision ?
I guess the fight being split between low and high ground helped ehome. Drow was safely on high ground while EG was burning up & taking arrows on low ground.
Seriously though I like RTZ morph... we should expect to see this earlier. The hero fits him pretty well. Needs to farm but can also have a decent impact in early teamfights
In other news, we're seeing the Batrider adjustments. Batrider is on a Timer. Always useful, but the hero just falls off, especially if you can play around it. But, if you get a pick off every 2 minutes & free-farm on your Cores, you just snowball it. It's why running it on Sumail has had problems for mid-game game for EG.
Oh, and if it isn't obvious why Earth Spirit is so good in the hands of the best teams, this game was just a reminder. You either have to wipe the Earth Spirit team in the fight or you're going to be hunted down after. It's also a brutal early game roamer, but we knew that.
On January 28 2016 21:21 Taf the Ghost wrote: Oh, and if it isn't obvious why Earth Spirit is so good in the hands of the best teams, this game was just a reminder. You either have to wipe the Earth Spirit team in the fight or you're going to be hunted down after. It's also a brutal early game roamer, but we knew that.
Whoever has 2nd pick has to ban ES.
no man whoever has morphling wins the game
that's the story of the series (check the results as evidence xD )
On January 28 2016 21:19 babysimba wrote: So how many teams have lost after geting rax at 12 mins. What a CTY
Cursory glance suggests that nobody has lost after taking a lane of rax by 10 minutes, and there's a 96% win rate on taking a lane of rax by 15 minutes.
There has probably even been double rax in 20 into drow-throw. Throwing with drow is so easy, it just takes a item or two on the other team and fights is super hard.
Aside from Lina + Morphling (late game), what are other good Instant Burst combinations? A lot of teams are going high-sustain/high heal line ups, so exploding people is going to get more important. I haven't been around enough top-level competition to know all of the good combos.
On January 28 2016 21:21 Taf the Ghost wrote: Oh, and if it isn't obvious why Earth Spirit is so good in the hands of the best teams, this game was just a reminder. You either have to wipe the Earth Spirit team in the fight or you're going to be hunted down after. It's also a brutal early game roamer, but we knew that.
Whoever has 2nd pick has to ban ES.
no man whoever has morphling wins the game
that's the story of the series (check the results as evidence xD )
the best way to end this tie break is to have ES vs Morph in G3
On January 28 2016 21:26 Taf the Ghost wrote: Aside from Lina + Morphling (late game), what are other good Instant Burst combinations? A lot of teams are going high-sustain/high heal line ups, so exploding people is going to get more important. I haven't been around enough top-level competition to know all of the good combos.
On January 28 2016 21:26 Taf the Ghost wrote: Aside from Lina + Morphling (late game), what are other good Instant Burst combinations? A lot of teams are going high-sustain/high heal line ups, so exploding people is going to get more important. I haven't been around enough top-level competition to know all of the good combos.
Storm Spirit, if only Icetoad didn't nerf him to oblivion.
On January 28 2016 21:26 Taf the Ghost wrote: Aside from Lina + Morphling (late game), what are other good Instant Burst combinations? A lot of teams are going high-sustain/high heal line ups, so exploding people is going to get more important. I haven't been around enough top-level competition to know all of the good combos.
Storm Spirit, if only Icetoad didn't nerf him to oblivion.
i'm sure he still can be used just like cancer pony
just situational and not ideal when there are other better options
On January 28 2016 21:21 Taf the Ghost wrote: Oh, and if it isn't obvious why Earth Spirit is so good in the hands of the best teams, this game was just a reminder. You either have to wipe the Earth Spirit team in the fight or you're going to be hunted down after. It's also a brutal early game roamer, but we knew that.
Whoever has 2nd pick has to ban ES.
no man whoever has morphling wins the game
that's the story of the series (check the results as evidence xD )
the best way to end this tie break is to have ES vs Morph in G3
On January 28 2016 21:21 Taf the Ghost wrote: Oh, and if it isn't obvious why Earth Spirit is so good in the hands of the best teams, this game was just a reminder. You either have to wipe the Earth Spirit team in the fight or you're going to be hunted down after. It's also a brutal early game roamer, but we knew that.
Whoever has 2nd pick has to ban ES.
no man whoever has morphling wins the game
that's the story of the series (check the results as evidence xD )
the best way to end this tie break is to have ES vs Morph in G3
it could be coming
but EHOME is taking the ES I was hoping for a Chinese Morph
On January 28 2016 21:38 OuchyDathurts wrote: Wisp inc
I believe they are going to show us a PPD io
Fear has played Wisp, but it's been like 3 years.
if only we had zai T_T
well fear could probably remember it still i mean envy remembers every detail of wisp and has forced his teammates in pubs to give him hero control to their wisp before
On January 28 2016 21:43 Vertical wrote: that Tiny is an Io ban bait ?
Ok, so they didn't ban it because EG doesn't play wisp....
But I think they're trying to lull people into thinking they'll take a naked tiny and they don't have to worry about the combo. But the combo will be coming, I feel it.
On January 28 2016 21:43 Vertical wrote: that Tiny is an Io ban bait ?
Ok, so they didn't ban it because EG doesn't play wisp....
But I think they're trying to lull people into thinking they'll take a naked tiny and they don't have to worry about the combo. But the combo will be coming, I feel it.
On January 28 2016 21:43 Vertical wrote: that Tiny is an Io ban bait ?
Ok, so they didn't ban it because EG doesn't play wisp....
But I think they're trying to lull people into thinking they'll take a naked tiny and they don't have to worry about the combo. But the combo will be coming, I feel it.
they play wisp
the problem is that it's their sub who plays wisp
I wouldn't be so sure. I think they want the other teams to believe that old meme. But in fact they can play it and will bust it out when needed.
PPD has some drafting trends and he rarely puts all his cards out there. He slow rolls it and lures people in.
On January 28 2016 21:43 Vertical wrote: that Tiny is an Io ban bait ?
Ok, so they didn't ban it because EG doesn't play wisp....
But I think they're trying to lull people into thinking they'll take a naked tiny and they don't have to worry about the combo. But the combo will be coming, I feel it.
they play wisp
the problem is that it's their sub who plays wisp
I wouldn't be so sure. I think they want the other teams to believe that old meme. But in fact they can play it and will bust it out when needed.
that's seems reasonable though idk if ppd even likes wisp
On January 28 2016 21:43 Vertical wrote: that Tiny is an Io ban bait ?
Ok, so they didn't ban it because EG doesn't play wisp....
But I think they're trying to lull people into thinking they'll take a naked tiny and they don't have to worry about the combo. But the combo will be coming, I feel it.
they play wisp
the problem is that it's their sub who plays wisp
I wouldn't be so sure. I think they want the other teams to believe that old meme. But in fact they can play it and will bust it out when needed.
that's seems reasonable though idk if ppd even likes wisp
So, Ehome's supports are going to be cancerous in the mid-game. But their cores aren't going to be great. And I'm still fairly sure that Death Prophet is actually not good right now.
EG's supports aren't that great until stuff gets online, but the Cores can take over the game. This should be interesting.
On January 28 2016 21:53 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: rtz what was that ult im so confused
He's never been afraid to use an ult explicitly to farm. It (along with having good farming patterns) is one of the reasons his farm was always so staggering. He has no problem using razor ult, DP ult, Lycan ult, etc just to farm.
On January 28 2016 21:53 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: rtz what was that ult im so confused
He's never been afraid to use an ult explicitly to farm. It (along with having good farming patterns) is one of the reasons his farm was always so staggering. He has no problem using razor ult, DP ult, Lycan ult, etc just to farm.
no im aware of that, i do the same thing and use it for stacks
but im relatively certain using it on the first wave he sees top wasnt particularly efficient
On January 28 2016 21:53 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: rtz what was that ult im so confused
He's never been afraid to use an ult explicitly to farm. It (along with having good farming patterns) is one of the reasons his farm was always so staggering. He has no problem using razor ult, DP ult, Lycan ult, etc just to farm.
no im aware of that, i do the same thing and use it for stacks
but im relatively certain using it on the first wave he sees top wasnt particularly efficient
I wasn't paying full attention, but he could well have been feeling unsafe and thought he should clear it up quickly and get out. Depends what he saw on the minimap.
On January 28 2016 21:53 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: rtz what was that ult im so confused
He's never been afraid to use an ult explicitly to farm. It (along with having good farming patterns) is one of the reasons his farm was always so staggering. He has no problem using razor ult, DP ult, Lycan ult, etc just to farm.
no im aware of that, i do the same thing and use it for stacks
but im relatively certain using it on the first wave he sees top wasnt particularly efficient
I wasn't paying full attention, but he could well have been feeling unsafe and thought he should clear it up quickly and get out. Depends what he saw on the minimap.
Like I said, ES + Disruptor is cancerous in the mid-game. ES just opens up the game so much via roaming and quick stuns/silences. You have to ban it if you're 2nd phase.
EG looked shit this whole tournament. Even in wins it's often through comebacks or late game, rather than straight out stomping like how they did vs Team Spirit.
RTZ has been trying to be active instead of doing what he does best - power farm. PPD has zero impact with Chen. I'd say this tournament was their experiment for Chen drafts and farm distribution, and it didn't look good.
On January 28 2016 22:10 Taf the Ghost wrote: Like I said, ES + Disruptor is cancerous in the mid-game. ES just opens up the game so much via roaming and quick stuns/silences. You have to ban it if you're 2nd phase.
To second that: there was a aparticular engagement on fear at the radiant bot t1 where ES just rolled into the darkness just to provide vision for Lanms glimpse (on fear) really disgusting
On January 28 2016 22:14 Kipsate wrote: Jacky Mao will win this I believe.
words truer than truth himself
TBH they Jacky AND W33 to win this. I feel like Scret's performance is often directly related to w33's one, Jacky being a very stable player. And nowadays he cannot carry solo so yeah, they need both.
On January 28 2016 22:14 Kipsate wrote: Jacky Mao will win this I believe.
words truer than truth himself
TBH they Jacky AND W33 to win this. I feel like Scret's performance is often directly related to w33's one, Jacky being a very stable player. And nowadays he cannot carry solo so yeah, they need both.
i'm sure all we need is trust and power of friendship
( Yeah we need w33ha to feel comfy in games so that he can do pubstar things and pls oh pls misery and puppey play good)
EG supports have been a total trash tier this tournament, they neither secure the farm for rtz nor do they roam gank and create space on the map, they just keep getting caught and feed. Only good performance from them is on ES but then again the hero is like 20-3 in the tournament. I mean where is that ppd aghs WD onto 4 people inside of universes chronosphere or ww curses, or tuskar domination... This tour(so far) is on them.
EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
some of his ld and od performances yesterday did not inspire much confidence from me
seems like he just sits places where he's the first to get caught too often
On January 28 2016 22:14 Kipsate wrote: Jacky Mao will win this I believe.
words truer than truth himself
TBH they Jacky AND W33 to win this. I feel like Scret's performance is often directly related to w33's one, Jacky being a very stable player. And nowadays he cannot carry solo so yeah, they need both.
i'm sure all we need is trust and power of friendship
( Yeah we need w33ha to feel comfy in games so that he can do pubstar things and pls oh pls misery and puppey play good)
For W33ha its usually: Pls have a good game For Miserty: PLs don't have a bad game
On January 28 2016 22:11 opterown wrote: so i heard it was VG vs the world?
Where is Azarkon when u need his brilliant analysis...
Here I'll do it
"EG is not out yet, PPD's team never plays well until they are about to get eliminated" "The West are obviously using this insignificant LAN to test the waters while the chinese teams, being stupid, are showing all their cards" "Chinese players are really bad OK" "God PPD's penis is delicious"
Notice the fairly heavy lack of Mid Laners in the top 25 heroes picked. The Mid Lane matchup is an utter mess right now, when it dominated things pretty recently. This is definitely causing everyone problems, as the most picked Mid Laners really require you to build your draft around.
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
some of his ld and od performances yesterday did not inspire much confidence from me
seems like he just sits places where he's the first to get caught too often
hmm I feel like he gets put into really hard positions though and given with what he has given has performed quite well. Not as good as universe(in so far you can make such a statement I suppose) but better then the rest of the team apart from Universe.
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
some of his ld and od performances yesterday did not inspire much confidence from me
seems like he just sits places where he's the first to get caught too often
hmm I feel like he gets put into really hard positions though and given with what he has given has performed quite well. Not as good as universe(in so far you can make such a statement I suppose) but better then the rest of the team apart from Universe.
fear has stood out in as many games as rtz, i think... feels like mainly sumail and ppd underperforming
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
some of his ld and od performances yesterday did not inspire much confidence from me
seems like he just sits places where he's the first to get caught too often
EG's warding game hasn't been on point this tournament. It was at Starladder until the Alliance games. Not really sure what is up with that. Maybe ppd just needs to draft Dazzle in the first phase.
On January 28 2016 22:14 Kipsate wrote: Jacky Mao will win this I believe.
words truer than truth himself
TBH they Jacky AND W33 to win this. I feel like Scret's performance is often directly related to w33's one, Jacky being a very stable player. And nowadays he cannot carry solo so yeah, they need both.
i'm sure all we need is trust and power of friendship
( Yeah we need w33ha to feel comfy in games so that he can do pubstar things and pls oh pls misery and puppey play good)
For W33ha its usually: Pls have a good game For Miserty: PLs don't have a bad game
for me.
man misery pls don't play like sheever .. even bone7 at this point is better despite how much throwing he does
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
some of his ld and od performances yesterday did not inspire much confidence from me
seems like he just sits places where he's the first to get caught too often
hmm I feel like he gets put into really hard positions though and given with what he has given has performed quite well. Not as good as universe(in so far you can make such a statement I suppose) but better then the rest of the team apart from Universe.
fear has stood out in as many games as rtz, i think... feels like mainly sumail and ppd underperforming
meh probaly underating fear here I guess(Harder to stand out too in his position to be fair)
On January 28 2016 22:14 Kipsate wrote: Jacky Mao will win this I believe.
words truer than truth himself
TBH they Jacky AND W33 to win this. I feel like Scret's performance is often directly related to w33's one, Jacky being a very stable player. And nowadays he cannot carry solo so yeah, they need both.
i'm sure all we need is trust and power of friendship
( Yeah we need w33ha to feel comfy in games so that he can do pubstar things and pls oh pls misery and puppey play good)
For W33ha its usually: Pls have a good game For Miserty: PLs don't have a bad game
for me.
man misery pls don't play like sheever .. even bone7 at this point is better despite how much throwing he does
i tihnk you're not quite remembering the worst bone7 slumps they were just as bad or worse rofl
like he'd just chain feed any possibility of winning the game away on occasion
whereas misery just kind of loses through gradual misplays and underwhelmingness
We're only through the 3rd picks and I'll just leave the entire match on this: if Crit's Earth Spirit doesn't suck, they should win. If it does suck (which it did yesterday), they will lose.
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
some of his ld and od performances yesterday did not inspire much confidence from me
seems like he just sits places where he's the first to get caught too often
hmm I feel like he gets put into really hard positions though and given with what he has given has performed quite well. Not as good as universe(in so far you can make such a statement I suppose) but better then the rest of the team apart from Universe.
fear has stood out in as many games as rtz, i think... feels like mainly sumail and ppd underperforming
suma1l actually hasn't been the wonderkid that he is lately
On January 28 2016 22:20 Kipsate wrote: EG looked suprisingly good in the Morphling game, Universe is always on point. If they expand Sumail's hero pool beyond Invoker strength/strategies then I think they could be good to go. Give it some time.
People flame RTZ a lot I feel but I think he is actually performing quite well.
some of his ld and od performances yesterday did not inspire much confidence from me
seems like he just sits places where he's the first to get caught too often
EG's warding game hasn't been on point this tournament. It was at Starladder until the Alliance games. Not really sure what is up with that. Maybe ppd just needs to draft Dazzle in the first phase.
Last game vs EHOME i feel they win if PPD babysits the Tony with Dazzle. Chen wasn't enough cover for him and NS busy doing NS things. If Dazzle had helped tiny get an item that game he might been able to help, but in the end Chen did nothing and Tiny did nothing and that can't happen
On January 28 2016 22:11 xyzz wrote: Hehe Sven is such a trash carry. PPD is the only one who's picking Sven in this meta, and he should get his head checked.
its all part of a bigger plan... to win the major with sven support ;-D
I love how people still think Sumail is top tier player he plays for the last YEAR 3 heroes well and all of them are either nerfed to oblivion or not in the meta. I see him as the weak link for few months now.
On January 28 2016 22:14 Kipsate wrote: Jacky Mao will win this I believe.
words truer than truth himself
TBH they Jacky AND W33 to win this. I feel like Scret's performance is often directly related to w33's one, Jacky being a very stable player. And nowadays he cannot carry solo so yeah, they need both.
i'm sure all we need is trust and power of friendship
( Yeah we need w33ha to feel comfy in games so that he can do pubstar things and pls oh pls misery and puppey play good)
For W33ha its usually: Pls have a good game For Miserty: PLs don't have a bad game
for me.
man misery pls don't play like sheever .. even bone7 at this point is better despite how much throwing he does
i tihnk you're not quite remembering the worst bone7 slumps they were just as bad or worse rofl
like he'd just chain feed any possibility of winning the game away on occasion
wait i meant when he was on good form xD but at least he could have an impact
i could never forget bone-chans "WTF ARE YOU DOING" moves
On January 28 2016 22:11 opterown wrote: so i heard it was VG vs the world?
Where is Azarkon when u need his brilliant analysis...
Here I'll do it
"EG is not out yet, PPD's team never plays well until they are about to get eliminated" "The West are obviously using this insignificant LAN to test the waters while the chinese teams, being stupid, are showing all their cards" "Chinese players are really bad OK" "God PPD's penis is delicious"
I think that's about it
Don't forget "Last year Chinese team only won 1 tournament. This is just an anomaly."
On January 28 2016 22:23 Faruko wrote: ppd Chen its a sight to behold
what a trashy chen player lol
If only they had a support player well known for his micro. :^)
Some games I do actually think they would've been served better by AUI in the early game but this guy does look for farm a lot in the mid game. He probably couldn't help them as much as I would like.
On January 28 2016 22:27 SatsuinoHado wrote: I love how people still think Sumail is top tier player he plays for the last YEAR 3 heroes well and all of them are either nerfed to oblivion or not in the meta. I see him as the weak link for few months now.
He can play all s4's type of heroes if ppd wants him to.
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
On January 28 2016 22:31 Orome wrote: dotatv being 5 minutes behind is so annoying
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
I still can't get over the fact that their midlaner is named old chicken
On January 28 2016 22:31 Orome wrote: dotatv being 5 minutes behind is so annoying
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
I still can't get over the fact that their midlaner is named old chicken
On January 28 2016 22:32 Super_Style wrote: OG boys got this, miracle am and moon earthshaker on top of 18-3 earth spirit ! As nahaz would say, stats dont lie !
On January 28 2016 22:27 SatsuinoHado wrote: I love how people still think Sumail is top tier player he plays for the last YEAR 3 heroes well and all of them are either nerfed to oblivion or not in the meta. I see him as the weak link for few months now.
He can play all s4's type of heroes if ppd wants him to.
But s4's style only works because they have Bulldog. But the current Mid Game meta is pretty much Invoker or Death Prophet or something odd. No Mid Laner is having a good tournament.
On January 28 2016 22:31 Orome wrote: dotatv being 5 minutes behind is so annoying
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
I still can't get over the fact that their midlaner is named old chicken
what a champ
old chicken is bad with cheese
ehome teaches you the important things in life
Old chicken is to old to eat dairy products, have to avoid getting the fat tummy.
Ehome teaching you the importance of being healthy. Good guy ehome.
On January 28 2016 22:31 Orome wrote: dotatv being 5 minutes behind is so annoying
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
I still can't get over the fact that their midlaner is named old chicken
what a champ
old chicken is bad with cheese
ehome teaches you the important things in life
i don't think old chicken goes well with anything honestly
On January 28 2016 22:27 SatsuinoHado wrote: I love how people still think Sumail is top tier player he plays for the last YEAR 3 heroes well and all of them are either nerfed to oblivion or not in the meta. I see him as the weak link for few months now.
He can play all s4's type of heroes if ppd wants him to.
But s4's style only works because they have Bulldog. But the current Mid Game meta is pretty much Invoker or Death Prophet or something odd. No Mid Laner is having a good tournament.
w33's ES games and miracle's invoker games have looked quite impressive
also super's been holding down the fort well as well
On January 28 2016 22:31 Orome wrote: dotatv being 5 minutes behind is so annoying
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
I still can't get over the fact that their midlaner is named old chicken
what a champ
old chicken is bad with cheese
ehome teaches you the important things in life
i don't think old chicken goes well with anything honestly
On January 28 2016 22:31 Orome wrote: dotatv being 5 minutes behind is so annoying
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
I still can't get over the fact that their midlaner is named old chicken
what a champ
old chicken is bad with cheese
ehome teaches you the important things in life
i don't think old chicken goes well with anything honestly
Old chicken makes the best soup chicken
Waiting for old chicken to get kicked so they get a better mid lol.
On January 28 2016 22:31 Orome wrote: dotatv being 5 minutes behind is so annoying
Also as interesting as EG's troubles are right now (storyline of their roster changes and strengths is actually amazing), the important thing here is: FUCK YEAH EHOME
I still can't get over the fact that their midlaner is named old chicken
what a champ
old chicken is bad with cheese
ehome teaches you the important things in life
i don't think old chicken goes well with anything honestly
Old chicken makes the best soup chicken
ok i'll just assume it's the non-spoiled old chicken
On January 28 2016 23:03 ChunderBoy wrote: also this wk build imo is bad vs am lineups vs am u need something like armlet deso ac. a correctly built wk can manfight an am
On January 28 2016 23:03 ChunderBoy wrote: also this wk build imo is bad vs am lineups vs am u need something like armlet deso ac. a correctly built wk can manfight an am
actually i am quite optimistic for secret. their advantage is big enough to outlast the DP ult. and their advantage should also be big enough to build 2 hexes to deal with am in the foreseeable future. i mean secrets base is not getting threatened yet and the bkb charges are dropping...
On January 28 2016 23:06 Gear 3rd wrote: actually i am quite optimistic for secret. their advantage is big enough to outlast the DP ult. and their advantage should also be big enough to build 2 hexes to deal with am in the foreseeable future. i mean secrets base is not getting threatened yet and the bkb charges are dropping...
E: ah well...
Yeah and unlike ur typical pub AM Miracle will get a BKB...
On January 28 2016 23:06 Gear 3rd wrote: actually i am quite optimistic for secret. their advantage is big enough to outlast the DP ult. and their advantage should also be big enough to build 2 hexes to deal with am in the foreseeable future. i mean secrets base is not getting threatened yet and the bkb charges are dropping...
E: ah well...
Yeah and unlike ur typical pub AM Miracle will get a BKB...
i dont think u win as secret anymore also some extremely poverty wk build that is somewhat decent in losing games vs pl/am is scepter+soulring u turn into a wraith then u use soulring and get enough mana so that when wraith ends u reincarnate
Well there was one fight in the entire game that started the way Secret wanted it to. The other times the game was just OG moving around not getting caught really and the 2 bigger fights were always messy ones started by OG. If Secret ever found a fight where they can initiate and OG has to respond then maybe there was some potential to kill people but in messy fights there's nothing they can accomplish.
I'm still curious about Secret's plan. They picked WK and left the AM, so it should have been the plan to bait it. Envy farmed up to a blink in good time, but decided to go AC next. They got Rosh with AC but never ever tried to push a T3.
AM roflstomps WK if the WK team doesn't manage to ever find the AM and also can't find the rest of the team really to force objectives. Secret didn't really find anything worthwhile this game other than the top lane smoke which lead to 3 kills and a tower
On January 28 2016 23:20 Kipsate wrote: well wh33 u tried
Yeah he and Misery up until 20 min mark where the only ones making a fight off it from Secret. Misery however was towards the end, but at start up till 20 minutes was doing work.
secret needs to pick drafts that are easier to execute not this one bad teamwipe leading to an autoloss stuff. og had so much control to always save the am no matter what
On January 28 2016 23:46 maximrobi wrote: How is w33 so F***ING bad with DP? OMG
Bad? He fucked up only the first blood. The other 2 deaths were ganks. First gank maybe could have been avoided, but the second gank was an Invis SB right beside him. How does that make him a fucking bad DP?
Secret are looking just so weak lately. I think they players just aren't ready for the patch at all. Maybe they can get it back together, but I'm not so optimistic.
Miracle always uses such flexible and powerful builds. The way he handles the mid position is extremely impressive. I'm reminded of his 3 position mid Alch who just farmed items for the rest of his team.
That entire game was on the back of w33 and Misery working together perfectly. They failed, and so there was nothing else Secret could do. I think the PLD BH was a poor choice this game; a save/control hero would probably have worked much better. Hell, it would have been reasonable to just give him Sky and send him to camp midlane and run Miracle out of regen.
On January 27 2016 01:07 Dracolich70 wrote: Totally uneven groups. I wonder if they do seedings at all. Secret yet again in the easiest group.
Best Chinese team, best CIS team, Best Western EU team, and Best American team in the same group.
Lol, best Western EU team, heard about a former TI champion who just won 2 lans in a row? VG is clearly not the best Chinese team atm and Tspirit is just the usual goblak's stack, so far from being the best CIS team. But at least you spotted the correct American best team.
On January 29 2016 00:00 Acritter wrote: That entire game was on the back of w33 and Misery working together perfectly. They failed, and so there was nothing else Secret could do. I think the PLD BH was a poor choice this game; a save/control hero would probably have worked much better. Hell, it would have been reasonable to just give him Sky and send him to camp midlane and run Miracle out of regen.
this seems to be the story of secret in general these days. w33 can be doing a bunch of stuff for secret on select heroes yet misery just does absolutely nothing for secret on almost every single hero
combine that with awkward drafting and it looks like this team needs a new roster
On January 29 2016 00:04 ChunderBoy wrote: instead of reshuffling a billion times. teams shud just wait with same lineup for the next patch that will make them good again #alliance
On January 29 2016 00:04 ChunderBoy wrote: instead of reshuffling a billion times. teams shud just wait with same lineup for the next patch that will make them good again #alliance
On January 29 2016 00:04 ChunderBoy wrote: instead of reshuffling a billion times. teams shud just wait with same lineup for the next patch that will make them good again #alliance
On January 29 2016 00:04 ChunderBoy wrote: instead of reshuffling a billion times. teams shud just wait with same lineup for the next patch that will make them good again #alliance
I don't know 3 years wait kinda long time
one ti every 3 years kappa
Or if your name is Alex Garfield 1 TI every 2 years! TI3 TI5
That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
On January 29 2016 00:04 ChunderBoy wrote: instead of reshuffling a billion times. teams shud just wait with same lineup for the next patch that will make them good again #alliance
I don't know 3 years wait kinda long time
one ti every 3 years kappa
typically for the ti patch icefrog completely reverses the flavor of winter/spring patch
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
On January 29 2016 00:00 Klowney wrote: Any team that doesn't have a spacemaking mid player this patch won't stand a chance.
OD & DP are still being picked and are winning more and more games , so its not only space making mids , but the meta is far from being figured out yet so who knows maybe in the end it will be as you say.
On January 29 2016 00:11 Kreb wrote: Has game two started yet? Im watching matumbas stream but nothing there, did he stop watching or did it not start yet?
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
On January 29 2016 00:13 Kreb wrote: Ok that was quick lol.
Yeah. Secret gged at 16:30ish after losing two lanes of rax. (I don't remember if they actually finished off the second lane, but they were about to if they hadn't yet.)
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
It was also really close, with Miracle not missing uphill several times in a row.
On January 29 2016 00:10 Super_Style wrote: Its time secret fans, rtz's time in eg is over, hes back with puppy and his bf zai, misery back to 4 and w33 mid. Easy TI.
People said same about secret last year. Lmao.and misery is more toxic than kuroky.a ticking bomb .placing rtz and misery in same team is pretty deadly
To be fair,rtz and sumail pretty much have same strengths which are pretty bad for this patch .this patch needs a spacemaking mid or a mid whih can go with the rest of the team in mid game.idk if sumail can do that pretty often.also,universe just doesn't feel in any of their drafts.
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.
Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.
Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
Not sure how that is Sadboys style, when RTZ was a midfarmer galore, and Fear being his versatile and unselfish self. Sumail and RTZ on the same team is a different beast. That being said, they should do that, but that would require them to be willing to let Sumail suffer for the greater good, when needed. As it stands they are sitting between two stools, while giving either one or both a hero where they don't shine, or try to make them both shine, hurting objectives.
i think sumail has shown in the past that he can play the playmaking role well. i remember some extremely good magnus games and at least one amazing puck game (still lost, because puck). at the moment i would pinpoint egs weakness in a lack of heroes suiting them. they dont have a good es or chen player and i dont think sumails invoker is as good as other top players (i.e. miracle or w33ha). ultimately i dont think they have a go to pick they can safely play and rely on raw skill to get into a favourable position.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
I thought suma1l excel at playmaking roles the most, lina/lesh/storm/qop/ember can farm but all of those kinda makes plays. It is something rtz no longer fulfills since he get powerfarmers even with midheroes.
Might be a tournament in which we can't actually count on Americans to win it, though no reason to count them out yet, given their traditional need to play from the lower group. The team does appear to have actual problems. One less ego, one more championship, etc.
But in before another Western team wins it any way. That's what's cool about not just having one team that's top class. Teams, after all, rise and fall every year, but the conditions that produced them don't change as frequently.
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.
Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
Not sure how that is Sadboys style, when RTZ was a midfarmer galore, and Fear being his versatile and unselfish self. Sumail and RTZ on the same team is a different beast. That being said, they should do that, but that would require them to be willing to let Sumail suffer for the greater good, when needed. As it stands they are sitting between two stools, while giving either one or both a hero where they don't shine, or try to make them both shine, hurting objectives.
Pure spacemaking hero. Literally S4 style, not the Sumail type of tempo heroes that still require shit tons of farm. It's not Sumail best playing style but he's still top tier on it.
On January 29 2016 00:38 hfglgg wrote: i think sumail has shown in the past that he can play the playmaking role well. i remember some extremely good magnus games and at least one amazing puck game (still lost, because puck). at the moment i would pinpoint egs weakness in a lack of heroes suiting them. they dont have a good es or chen player and i dont think sumails invoker is as good as other top players (i.e. miracle or w33ha). ultimately i dont think they have a go to pick they can safely play and rely on raw skill to get into a favourable position.
They opted to let him snowball in order to create that space.
Yes, they are somewhat limited, even if Fear can play anything. PPD can't, and Sumail needs snowball heroes.
On January 29 2016 00:26 Dracolich70 wrote: PPD "just" need to find a solution to play to the strengths of RTZ and Sumail, and perhaps concoct a strategy in the process.
Just go bad to sadboys style. Spacemaking mid and offlane. Hard carry with fat pos 4 support.
Not sure how that is Sadboys style, when RTZ was a midfarmer galore, and Fear being his versatile and unselfish self. Sumail and RTZ on the same team is a different beast. That being said, they should do that, but that would require them to be willing to let Sumail suffer for the greater good, when needed. As it stands they are sitting between two stools, while giving either one or both a hero where they don't shine, or try to make them both shine, hurting objectives.
Pure spacemaking hero. Literally S4 style, not the Sumail type of tempo heroes that still require shit tons of farm. It's not Sumail best playing style but he's still top tier on it.
s4 is also willing to sacrifice himself, buying time for either Loda and/or Bulldong.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
And fear is just not on par with the rest of EG when playing support, tbh they should sack RTZ and get fear back on pos1. He was extremely versatile and had a huge heropool.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying
Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
EE is the type of a carry who needs space for himself to carry his team late game which was a case for most of c9 games.
BTW,what the hell was puppey doing top lane while envy was easily winning top lane and w33/was losing his lane hard?I mean he seriously could have tped to save w33
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying, but more confirm the problem.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying
Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
Not willing is just a playstyle difference like how LGD and EG would make sure to give rtz and Sylar the farm they need.
But saying they never do that is untrue for EE has done that shit too many times even going back to the old c9 days with him playing doom with sing.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying
Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
What does "not willingly" even mean when sacrificing in this case means making a conscious decision to not help his lane or putting him in a harder lane to give someone else room. Seems pretty willingly to me
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle?
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying
Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
What does "not willingly" even mean when sacrificing in this case means making a conscious decision to not help his lane or putting him in a harder lane to give someone else room. Seems pretty willingly to me
If you don't gain objectives in the process, it doesn't cater to the greater gameplan.
If it hurts their gameplan, it is not good. What is hard to understand?
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle?
When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG?
Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry.
You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry.
to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did
It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
On January 29 2016 00:08 spudde123 wrote: That game was lost before Misery could do anything just on how mid lane worked out imo. First I don't think Secret had anyone blocking mid and on the first wave the creeps were on Miracle's hill if I'm not mistaken. Bounty can't harass him mid at all in that position. Then later w33 dies to him solo, then gets ganked several times. Can't really evaluate anything else if you get rolled over completely right from the lanes. I don't think all of it was due to drafts either.
w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
EE being sacced early has been a very regular thing ever since the c9 days and continued even to Secret. Also this event alone we've seen w33 playing for example ES where he gets rather sacced and then starts to play with the team. I don't really agree with what you are saying
Not willingly nor part of the gameplan to have this sacrifice.
What does "not willingly" even mean when sacrificing in this case means making a conscious decision to not help his lane or putting him in a harder lane to give someone else room. Seems pretty willingly to me
If you don't gain objectives in the process, it doesn't cater to the greater gameplan.
If it hurts their gameplan, it is not good. What is hard to understand?
Giving someone else more room whose early farm or levels are important caters to the gameplan. Using w33 to fight once he gets his early key level on ES caters to the gameplan. I'm still not agreeing with the way you described things.
On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote: It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I didn't even try to argue i was trying to discuss but he pretty much suddenly did a "EE sucks and how do you respond to that" like whaatt . He didn't even defend his point nor try to discuss about it. It's either he doesn't know shit about it or is intentionally baiting for weird reason(very unlikely) ?
Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position alot but it's completely a lie to say that he doesn't since he did that before alot. There were even games his lane was so hard he had to stay in the jungle alot.
On January 29 2016 00:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: [quote] w33's first solo death was when the wave was his on his own hill though... bh actually couldve been mid for that moment
of course it'd take impossibly good foresight but still
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle?
When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG?
Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry.
You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry.
to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did
I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s.
I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated.
If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart.
Yea his death didn't have much to do with lane position, but I think the lane position was why PLD left elsewhere because he realized he can't do shit mid. The death was just thinking that he can kill Miracle as far as I saw
regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle?
When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG?
Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry.
You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry.
to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did
I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s.
I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated.
If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart.
Again pick another carry since EE has done that before it's not unique, though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE then i can understand.
Nah you're not better either. I didn't flame , you intentionally did though even though you could've just confirmed/expanded and clarified it afterwards if you are really confident of what you said that's how you respond smartly.
What you said now is very different from what you started with. You started with players not wanting to do something n0tail is willing to do. What you said now is that OG sometimes sacrifice him to accomplish stuff elsewhere better than EG or Secret, which is probably true. That is related to how the entire team plays the early game.
On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote: It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
This is not directly related to whether you get sacced or not early. If you are not important necessarily to your team's fighting strength early on, it can be better to give someone else more space first. The carry can then catch up after the lanes even if he suffered a bit if the team is overall doing well.
On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote: It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I didn't even try to argue i was trying to discuss but he pretty much suddenly did a "EE sucks and how do you respond to that" like whaatt . He didn't even defend his point nor try to discuss about it. It's either he doesn't know shit about it or is intentionally baiting for weird reason(very unlikely) ?
Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position alot but it's completely a lie to say that he doesn't since he did that before alot. There were even games his lane was so hard he had to stay in the jungle alot.
You insert things never said. I have never said neither W33ha nor EE sucks. Or even Sumail nor RTZ for that matter.
On January 29 2016 01:22 haxhax wrote: It may have happened a few times, but EE overwhelmingly plays with the hard carry mentality. And if you're not even willing to admit that much, you're´really just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I didn't even try to argue i was trying to discuss but he pretty much suddenly did a "EE sucks and how do you respond to that" like whaatt . He didn't even defend his point nor try to discuss about it. It's either he doesn't know shit about it or is intentionally baiting for weird reason(very unlikely) ?
Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position alot but it's completely a lie to say that he doesn't since he did that before alot. There were even games his lane was so hard he had to stay in the jungle alot.
You insert things never said. I have never said neither W33ha nor EE sucks. Or even Sumail nor RTZ for that matter.
The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying
also this is how you responded to my response lmao
Not true at all. Also basically what spuddle says
On January 29 2016 01:35 spudde123 wrote: What you said now is very different from what you started with. You started with players not wanting to do something n0tail is willing to do.
On January 29 2016 00:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: [quote] regarding your original post though: i think teams that draft dp should really take care to make sure she doesnt lose, and that might include just parking a bh behind mid if for no reason other than to intervene when shit like that first solo kill happens
morph could've probably been fine alone top from level 3 onward against sb, and it should've been expected that sb would be looking to prey on the dp first in a dp/void/morph tricore
alliance made the same mistake of sacking s4 dp in one game and it went similarly horribly for them (bulldog was on doom i believe)
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle?
When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG?
Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry.
You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry.
to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did
I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s.
I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated.
If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart.
Again pick another carry since EE has done that before it's not unique, though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE then i can understand.
Nah you're not better either. I didn't flame , you intentionally did though even though you could've just confirmed/expanded and clarified it afterwards if you are really confident of what you said that's how you respond smartly.
You are the only one who tried to flame, in lack of something worthwhile to say, while you are still confirming what I said, and now do it again.
RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
Yea I agree. When Secret's struggles started in the online quals for SL it felt like w33 getting rolled over mid with rotations was a pretty common theme. At least compared to OG for example it doesn't feel like Secret in general does as good of a job to make sure the lane is alright. And this isn't just due to rotations but also wards, blocking the wave, etc.
PPY is a jungling support, when being at his best, and is babysitting EE. So it has to be PLD. The difference between them is OG are willing to sack N0tail, and N0tail is willing to buy space, while neither EE nor W33 want to do the same.
Ok i actually have no idea if you have actually watched old c9 or secret games since ever or you just trying to smart ramble, that is so one of the things that EE does very often even back in the old c9 days.
w33ha is also kinda left alone half the time and the result of that is w33ha being super underfarmed to do shit so they eventually lose. We've seen that before as well for secret.
I have seen very many games. Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying.
No need to counter that. That just means you can't really back up your argument so you regarded to mockery as a result of unable to prove your point.
I didn't have to reside to non-logical means unlike you. I pretty much just continued with the discussion and my point is even wayy before OG became a team and notail played 1 position which pretty much tells that you didn't really know much about sacked lane since you think sacked 1 position is so original with OG and notail.
If you would've said other teams then it would've made sense but you basically compared it to literally the player that did that alot before. Also i'd like to let you know that even loda from alliance did that way back to ti3 times.
Unable to prove my point, when you confirm they suffered, and even confirm they don't carry the playstyle?
When did N0tail play pos 1, before OG?
Your argument is that notal and OG are so unique since they are willing to sack their safelaner and EE of secret doesn't . Who literally did that way before notail even became a 1 position carry.
You really don't know what you are talking about and you just tried to sound smart since there's literally no point of comparing two carries who did same thing and claim that the OG carry is unique since he's the only one who he does it like what ? You could've backed your point if you just had a different team in mind who regularly secures space for their carry.
to give you an example of what comparison you made is that it's like saying that azarkon is unique since he's the only biased western fanboy ever and comparing it to somebody who also is a western fanboy way before azarkon did
I said that N0tail was willingly being sacrificed for the greater good, as opposed to Secret and EGs pos 1 and 2s.
I have made my argument. You even confirmed it, and now you are on a path of doing self-image projection, because you feel humiliated, and somehow proceed to talk about other stuff like Azarkon, which is unrelated.
If you feel I sound smart it is probably true, while you are not very smart.
Again pick another carry since EE has done that before it's not unique, though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE then i can understand.
Nah you're not better either. I didn't flame , you intentionally did though even though you could've just confirmed/expanded and clarified it afterwards if you are really confident of what you said that's how you respond smartly.
You are the only one who tried to flame, in lack of something worthwhile to say, while you are still confirming what I said, and now do it again.
definitely not true
Also that EE tilts, as do Misery.
Not sure how you counter what I am saying
Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame. Pretty sure i'm the one saying things worthwhile here that's actually related to it.
It's either you are trying to dodge the point covering the shame or you didn't even read my explanation at all since you are biased
"Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote: "Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
lmao are you actually trying to divert now that we talking about "tilting" even though we are talking about "1 position being sacked"
you even started the topic and i responded on the topic so you avoided to discuss the topic that i am discussing which you started.
You are actually dodging the discussion. Why did i even bother to try to discuss to a discussion you started that you don't even plan on discussing at all
it's definitely just some stupid declaration you made without basis you can't back it up so you have to resort to diverting the attention to it
On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote: RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
Most of Secret's successful Ember games last patch weren't 4p1, they were dual core Ember+WR/SF/Meepo/occasional Invoker or something.
Though of course it is true that EE isn't exactly known for playing heroes that farm some early key item and start to get kills, most of his heroes need to be farmed to stay effective in the game as it goes later. But again, this doesn't necessarily mean his laning stage is going to get secured. For example quite a few of the Ember games they played last patch were such that EE's lane wasn't great or anything (though partly due to the frequent dual lanes and stuff), and he just caught up later on.
On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote: "Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
I understand you got that danish bias and all but come on man, Notail doesnt tilt ? have you not watche the famous LD game from him, or the ET game this tournament ? Be reasonable. No player in the world never tilts. Maybe Miracle doesnt but thats why hes undisputed best player in the world.
On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote: "Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
I understand you got that danish bias and all but come on man, Notail doesnt tilt ? have you not watche the famous LD game from him, or the ET game this tournament ? Be reasonable. No player in the world never tilts. Maybe Miracle doesnt but thats why hes undisputed best player in the world.
Notail's not even effective at his role. He pretty much gets carried by crit, moon and miracle (i don;t often notice fly's impact but he's gucchi he's the captain and drafter)
And it's not even like Fear like stability or like how much loda fits in the carry role of alliance despite him not being superb in the role. He's like out of place and not very good as a 1 position granted he's new to the role but saying he doesn't tilt PLZ. He's not even doing role well compared to others.
If the members think he's vital to their team then it's probably the shot calling or creating a great team atmosphere but not as a 1 position for sure.
On January 29 2016 00:38 hfglgg wrote: i think sumail has shown in the past that he can play the playmaking role well. i remember some extremely good magnus games and at least one amazing puck game (still lost, because puck). at the moment i would pinpoint egs weakness in a lack of heroes suiting them. they dont have a good es or chen player and i dont think sumails invoker is as good as other top players (i.e. miracle or w33ha). ultimately i dont think they have a go to pick they can safely play and rely on raw skill to get into a favourable position.
Sumail can run "playmaker" Mids quite fine. His signature heroes do that, though it's normally as a damage initiator. We saw what happened with Lina in game 2 against Ehome. But any time they've run him as Batrider, if EG doesn't get out to a big lead, they normally end up without enough damage. The problem becomes they don't run Universe on the right heroes to go with a Sumail Batrider.
If they picked up the Batrider again, I'd like to see Universe on a Timbersaw or Weaver. Heck, even a Broodmother might work well. They need a 2nd Core damage dealer with Sumail on Batrider or Puck. Raid-Boss Hard Carries are pretty much the domain of over-farmed Anti-mage right now. Granted, they could do that as well.
On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote: "Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
lmao are you actually trying to divert now that we talking about "tilting" even though we are talking about "1 position being sacked"
you even started the topic and i responded on the topic so you avoided to discuss the topic that i am discussing which you started.
You are actually dodging the discussion. Why did i even bother to try to discuss to a discussion you started that you don't even plan on discussing at all
it's definitely just some stupid declaration you made without basis you can't back it up so you have to resort to diverting the attention to it
Not sure how I am dodging it, when you confirm that they are suffering, it is not part of their plan, and your counter is talking about C9, where EE tilted galore, and you said he needed to leave lane because he was suffering.
Not sure why you continue to self-image project. As it stands my argument is clear while you fill yours with nothing but being butthurt.
You better stop. I have already quoted your agreements with me.
I am not diverting. You claimed I was saying EE sucked, when I did no such thing.
On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote: RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny.
You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams.
He plays carries with a lot of fighting capacity early on. Gyro and PL are prime examples. We've also seen him play Brew a fair bit, a hero on which he stops farming creeps on almost entirely after getting blink dagger, leaving the remaining farm to moon. It's not an accident that he farms less in these games.
Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed.
On January 29 2016 01:46 Dracolich70 wrote: "Not willing is just a playstyle difference". "though if you meant that it's this iteration of secret with EE". "Yeah EE does the heavy 1 position". "No need to counter that.".
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
I understand you got that danish bias and all but come on man, Notail doesnt tilt ? have you not watche the famous LD game from him, or the ET game this tournament ? Be reasonable. No player in the world never tilts. Maybe Miracle doesnt but thats why hes undisputed best player in the world.
Notail's not even effective at his role. He pretty much gets carried by crit, moon and miracle (i often notice fly's impact but he's gucchi he's the captain and drafter)
And it's not even like Fear like stability or like how much loda fits in the carry role of alliance despite him not being superb in the role. He's like out of place and not very good as a 1 position granted he's new to the role but saying he doesn't tilt pls
Fly is hard 6, the shallow grave dazzle or suicide swap venge, he does his job well. Also notail was the best midlaner in the history or HoN, carry role is not that strange to him, you can see how alohadance switched to it in a day and his already better then xboct was for the past year or 2. What i want to say is that xboct and notail were good carries... 5 years ago and not now.
Yeah.this pretty much. I haven't seen how notail fits into this og team .most of the time ,I just see 4 of them doing dumb stuff around the map just to get carried by miracle late game and if that fails,we get a mediocre team with no farm on rest 4 who can't do anything because miracle ate all jungle creeps and couldn't carry us.at major also,their most of success was around protetcing miracle farm by picking 2 defensive supports and cold embracing and graving in every fight.
Are you serious ? You literally did not address any actual discussion about the "sacked 1 position" that i addressed. You
You avoided talking about sacked lanes for 1 position at all, you talked about "tilting" which the claim you made isn't even true. You didn't talk about the topic a all you just switched topic
On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote: RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny.
You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams.
Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed.
Yeah why did i even try to discuss the topic he opened. He just kept beating around the bush and avoided the main topic discussion diverted it to another topic.
At least with acritter he actually discusses shit even though we have differing points.
On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote: RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny.
You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams.
He plays carries with a lot of fighting capacity early on. Gyro and PL are prime examples. We've also seen him play Brew a fair bit, a hero on which he stops farming creeps on almost entirely after getting blink dagger, leaving the remaining farm to moon. It's not an accident that he farms less in these games.
Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed.
So because he had a single amazing game were he set a record gpm that means that hes the best carry in the world and he never ever tilts ? Because thats what you 2 make him out to be. And we are not talking about brew games, we are talking carry games, when its 30-20 for OG and hes 0-7-2 gyro with same net worth as crit. Honestly there is no other way to solve this then to ask a simple question, do you 2 believe notail is a better safe lane carry then EE?
How many games has EE started offlane and sacked himself to get a good start for Misery...? Is this even debatable? You can't gaslight an entire thread of posters that's not how it works.
On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote: RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny.
You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams.
He plays carries with a lot of fighting capacity early on. Gyro and PL are prime examples. We've also seen him play Brew a fair bit, a hero on which he stops farming creeps on almost entirely after getting blink dagger, leaving the remaining farm to moon. It's not an accident that he farms less in these games.
Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed.
So because he had a single amazing game were he set a record gpm that means that hes the best carry in the world and he never ever tilts ? Because thats what you 2 make him out to be.
Nobody is saying that you royal twit. And OG is no doubt better off with n0tail than they would be with EE.
On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote: RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny.
You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams.
He plays carries with a lot of fighting capacity early on. Gyro and PL are prime examples. We've also seen him play Brew a fair bit, a hero on which he stops farming creeps on almost entirely after getting blink dagger, leaving the remaining farm to moon. It's not an accident that he farms less in these games.
Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed.
So because he had a single amazing game were he set a record gpm that means that hes the best carry in the world and he never ever tilts ? Because thats what you 2 make him out to be.
Nobody is saying that you royal twit.
Actually the other OG flair guy did, you just came into discussion later. I can quote it if you want.
But you're responding to me. But sure, I'll entertain you. Go on ahead and find the comment where somebody is saying that n0tail is the best carry in the world.
I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins. Also one of their key drafting edges is due to Wisp+Tiny which no doubt comes quite a bit from n0tail's understanding of how to play it.
On January 29 2016 02:22 haxhax wrote: But you're responding to me. But sure, I'll entertain you. Go on ahead and find the comment where somebody is saying that n0tail is the best carry in the world.
"Btw i expanded my point before you never responded to that with actually something related to it either to rebuke and state why or agree instead responded with that flame.". Is it not true Misery and EE tilts? That is pretty relevant to how they respond to being focused. N0tail doesn't tilt, due to that, nor the team. It goes hand in hand with my argument.
I wasnt responding to you personally, if you read carefully you'd notice i said "you 2", as in you and the other guy, not just you.
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins.Also one of their key drafting edges is due to Wisp+Tiny which no doubt comes quite a bit from n0tail's understanding of how to play it.
Yeah though he's not really impressive as a carry in a traditional sense he does contribute in some other way(probably more ingame than anything).
Though if the team is better with him or another proven more effective carry is another question. It could probably end up like maybe vs shiki difference from cdec or the sing vs fata difference of old c9 with aui
well he should understand tiny-wisp he literally been to both sides of the coin and he's an impressive wisp player probably the best from the west as far as i've seen
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins
But that is the whole point of this, imagine if OG as good as they are had someone who didnt have very questionable games often... Just imagine how good they would be.
Due to the stupidly good early game supports like ES, disruptor, Lion, oracle in play this patch. The safelane and mid are going to be heavily pressured from the very beginning, This will make it hard for a traditional dual core team with two greedy players. One significant sign of the early game pressure is that there are less jungle stacks in this tournament. The supports are just too busy moving around instead of stacking. Both EG and Secret seemed struggling in trying to protect their carries while their Chinese counterpart just picked more aggressive support, because Chinese carries are more used to being sacked early game, Meanwhile, the offlane #3 position is having a better day due to the camp change, we have seen numbers of games that the #3 getting better farm than the mid or safelane. So maybe a farmed #1#3 and a less-consuming tempo-based #2 is the better answer, which means Alliance. Players like FATA/S4/notail should be given more credits this patch, the ability of consuming less team resources but still being effective as a carry is extremely valuable.
On January 29 2016 01:41 Super_Style wrote: RTZ has been sacked heavily this tournament, he played more jungle and offline then he did safelane free farm.
Also Notail isnt being sacked, he just falls behind on his own(unless meepo or tiny), OG is playing like a 4 man premade with 1 random dude doing random stuff alone and isnt part of any team movement.
And it feels like in this version of secret that EE struggles to perform when w33 requires heavy farm and attention, he doesnt really feel all too useful. And their best games have been 4 protect one with EE ember getting farm in all 3 lanes and jungle. I dont see EE performing amazingly if he isnt the most farmed hero in the game. However most of secret wins came from 2 farming sidelanes and mid space creator, so sacking w33 as a carry for misery LD.
He deliberately leaves the easy farm for Miracle when he's not playing the primary carry. And he usually isn't. Unless he's playing - you guessed it - meepo or tiny.
You think n0tail can't farm? He got the 6th highest gpm recorded in 2015, only beat by players on low rated teams playing other low rated teams.
He plays carries with a lot of fighting capacity early on. Gyro and PL are prime examples. We've also seen him play Brew a fair bit, a hero on which he stops farming creeps on almost entirely after getting blink dagger, leaving the remaining farm to moon. It's not an accident that he farms less in these games.
Also getting sacked means getting fired. It's sac'ed or sacced. As in sacrificed.
So because he had a single amazing game were he set a record gpm that means that hes the best carry in the world and he never ever tilts ? Because thats what you 2 make him out to be. And we are not talking about brew games, we are talking carry games, when its 30-20 for OG and hes 0-7-2 gyro with same net worth as crit. Honestly there is no other way to solve this then to ask a simple question, do you 2 believe notail is a better safe lane carry then EE?
N0tail fits the style of OG, which is why they are successful at 70+% winrate.
He gets flak from people that don't understand strategy or the depth of dota. In essence people that are clueless, and only understand flashy players like Miracle, and fail to understand that much of Miracle's easy integration into top dota, is much due to N0tails teamspirit and space creation.
How well did Balkan Bears do featuring both W33 and Miracle? Non factor.
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins
But that is the whole point of this, imagine if OG as good as they are had someone who didnt have very questionable games often... Just imagine how good they would be.
I think you just don't get it, you think N0tail is underfarmed because he sucks or something. Even though N0tail is playing the position 1, most times his role is to create space for miracle and moon. He is a fake 1, used to draw attention to himself and let the team build around Miracle.
N0tail fits OG perfectly because of his big hero pool and willing to sacrifice himself for a more even gold spread. It's called strategy and even though you may think it sucks it seems to work for OG.
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins
But that is the whole point of this, imagine if OG as good as they are had someone who didnt have very questionable games often... Just imagine how good they would be.
It's always hard to say change how bringing in a new player would change the team. Noone can know from the outside how a team works exactly. A lot of people were raving for example about VG when Hao replaced Black, but instead their results got a bit worse overall unless I'm mistaken. c9 thought they were upgrading when they got Misery & n0tail, but instead the new team just didn't work as well as the old one.
In n0tail's case for example at least I have the impression that he is fairly active in providing ideas in terms of how to play the game, how to draft, etc. Some things you can analyze from gameplay (though as we see in this thread with very different interpretations), some things are impossible to know without being with the team.
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins
But that is the whole point of this, imagine if OG as good as they are had someone who didnt have very questionable games often... Just imagine how good they would be.
It's always hard to say change how bringing in a new player would change the team. Noone can know from the outside how a team works exactly. A lot of people were raving for example about VG when Hao replaced Black, but instead their results got a bit worse overall unless I'm mistaken. c9 thought they were upgrading when they got Misery & n0tail, but instead the new team just didn't work as well as the old one.
In n0tail's case for example at least I have the impression that he is fairly active in providing ideas in terms of how to play the game, how to draft, etc. Some things you can analyze from gameplay (though as we see in this thread with very different interpretations), some things are impossible to know without being with the team.
Yeah some changes might actually ruin shit that worked out. You would be lucky if the change just meant like what happened when sing got swapped by fata which the team got generally better.
I honestly thought that Hao is the better carry than Black for VG (well i still do think so i mean generally Hao is better overall than black ) turns out while VG had shit times with black but they didn't peak too much like they did with black.
Are you serious ? You literally did not address any actual discussion about the "sacked 1 position" that i addressed. You
You avoided talking about sacked lanes for 1 position at all, you talked about "tilting" which the claim you made isn't even true. You didn't talk about the topic a all you just switched topic
You trying to talk about EE doing something in C9(and still failing to counter my point of being willing to sacrifice for the greater good), when I talk about W33 and EE, where you both confirm this to be true, and that either one is being ganked unwillingly, and not part of the greater good, as opposed to OG, which was my argument, and I have even quoted you admitting.
You are trying to argue and while losing your points, you try to create another point not made(and still fail), and act like I am you, and have the audacity to claim I leaving my main argument made. Then you try to make another point that what OG does is not unique, and I should talk about other teams, rather than OG, while my argument still rings true. And finally you proceed to claim I say that EE sucks, when I did no such thing.
How is EE and Misery tilting not true? C9 were infamous for being tilters, being very emotional players.
Goody may not be expressing himself the best but come on dude. You may have a point in OG supports using their time better in deciding who to protect and when and where to be than EG or Secret currently (if that was part of your point), but the way you worded things originally is just bullshit, as proven by how Secret has done things in a lot of games after they were formed.
Also pretty sure when Goody talks about the "EE sucking" comment it is about you saying "EE tilts" out of nowhere when it apparently had no relevance to the discussion.
On January 29 2016 03:32 spudde123 wrote: Goody may not be expressing himself the best but come on dude. You may have a point in OG supports using their time better in deciding who to protect and when and where to be than EG or Secret currently (if that was part of your point), but the way you worded things originally is just bullshit, as proven by how Secret has done things in a lot of games after they were formed.
Also pretty sure when Goody talks about the "EE sucking" comment it is about you saying "EE tilts" out of nowhere when it apparently had no relevance to the discussion.
Tilting is pretty relavant when it comes to being willing to sacrifice. I was questioned whether I had seen C9 games, and I refered to a very specific and infamous weakness. Somehow "old C9" was being brought up, when I talked about Secret, as if it mattered, but it still failed for him and you.
Goody may not be expressing himself the best? The guy agrees with me, and still try to make an argument, pretending I am him.
N0tail is not a support. This was about the difference between how things work in EG and Secret, and then OG, where I use N0tails and the teams willingness to sacrifice him. WILLINGNESS. Not hurting their gameplan. Both of you proceed to explain that EE has been ganked before, hurting the team, and now W33, not understanding what is being relayed to you.
Saying that EE tilts doesn't mean that he sucks. He is emotional. As is Misery. They are both good players.
The problem being that you two do not understand things said, but that are your shortcomings. What is even worse, is you do not even understand the consequence of what yourselves say.
Saying that EE tilts doesn't mean that he sucks. He is emotional. As is Misery. They are both good players.
Being prone to choking in tournaments makes you a less valuable and less stable player, let's not act like controlling your emotions is not part of your skill. There's a reason teams like EG excel under pressure on big LANs while others crumble.
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins
But that is the whole point of this, imagine if OG as good as they are had someone who didnt have very questionable games often... Just imagine how good they would be.
It's always hard to say change how bringing in a new player would change the team. Noone can know from the outside how a team works exactly. A lot of people were raving for example about VG when Hao replaced Black, but instead their results got a bit worse overall unless I'm mistaken. c9 thought they were upgrading when they got Misery & n0tail, but instead the new team just didn't work as well as the old one.
In n0tail's case for example at least I have the impression that he is fairly active in providing ideas in terms of how to play the game, how to draft, etc. Some things you can analyze from gameplay (though as we see in this thread with very different interpretations), some things are impossible to know without being with the team.
Thank you, great counterargument and the one i can agree with. I mean PPD and Puppy are not the best of players in the world, cr1t and lil are like twice as good of a support players but they cant do what ppd and puppy do and thus having both of them would be worse then having one of each. This game is more then just ingame mechanics.
But dont go and be like "notail never tilts thus his team never tilts, hes an amazing carry he has 6th best gpm in 2015" And as far as i remember envy said in his ask.fm that notail was the most emotional player on old c9, something you @dracolich seem to ignore when talking about "old c9 tilting, envy and misery being emotional.
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins
But that is the whole point of this, imagine if OG as good as they are had someone who didnt have very questionable games often... Just imagine how good they would be.
It's always hard to say change how bringing in a new player would change the team. Noone can know from the outside how a team works exactly. A lot of people were raving for example about VG when Hao replaced Black, but instead their results got a bit worse overall unless I'm mistaken. c9 thought they were upgrading when they got Misery & n0tail, but instead the new team just didn't work as well as the old one.
In n0tail's case for example at least I have the impression that he is fairly active in providing ideas in terms of how to play the game, how to draft, etc. Some things you can analyze from gameplay (though as we see in this thread with very different interpretations), some things are impossible to know without being with the team.
Thank you, great counterargument and the one i can agree with. I mean PPD and Puppy are not the best of players in the world, cr1t and lil are like twice as good of a support players but they cant do what ppd and puppy do and thus having both of them would be worse then having one of each. This game is more then just ingame mechanics.
But dont go and be like "notail never tilts thus his team never tilts, hes an amazing carry he has 6th best gpm in 2015" And as far as i remember envy said in his ask.fm that notail was the most emotional player on old c9, something you @dracolich seem to ignore when talking about "old c9 tilting, envy and misery being emotional.
You are the one who came in here saying that OG is a 4 player team with n0tail doing nothing, you complete imbecile.
Guess that only speaks of volumes of how terrible you must think their opponents are. And those that can't even qualify? Ugh!
On January 29 2016 02:25 spudde123 wrote: I think the most valuable thing about n0tail is that he is sort of able to play anything, this allows the team to be built around Miracle and they can pull off certain heroes that give them heavy draft advantages every once in a while. Sometimes he has very questionable games but who cares really if the team wins
But that is the whole point of this, imagine if OG as good as they are had someone who didnt have very questionable games often... Just imagine how good they would be.
It's always hard to say change how bringing in a new player would change the team. Noone can know from the outside how a team works exactly. A lot of people were raving for example about VG when Hao replaced Black, but instead their results got a bit worse overall unless I'm mistaken. c9 thought they were upgrading when they got Misery & n0tail, but instead the new team just didn't work as well as the old one.
In n0tail's case for example at least I have the impression that he is fairly active in providing ideas in terms of how to play the game, how to draft, etc. Some things you can analyze from gameplay (though as we see in this thread with very different interpretations), some things are impossible to know without being with the team.
Thank you, great counterargument and the one i can agree with. I mean PPD and Puppy are not the best of players in the world, cr1t and lil are like twice as good of a support players but they cant do what ppd and puppy do and thus having both of them would be worse then having one of each. This game is more then just ingame mechanics.
But dont go and be like "notail never tilts thus his team never tilts, hes an amazing carry he has 6th best gpm in 2015" And as far as i remember envy said in his ask.fm that notail was the most emotional player on old c9, something you @dracolich seem to ignore when talking about "old c9 tilting, envy and misery being emotional.
You are the one who came in here saying that OG is a 4 player team with n0tail doing nothing, you complete imbecile.
Guess that only speaks of volumes of how terrible you must think their opponents are. And those that can't even qualify? Ugh!
Wow, resorting to hardcore insulting, such a high standard... Let me put it in the words even you can understand... OG is Barcelona FC. Miracle is Messi, Crit is Neymar, Moon is Suarez, Fly is Iniesta and Notail is... Victor Valdez. Barcelona still won everything anyway.
On January 29 2016 04:32 haxhax wrote: I'm calling a spade a spade. So don't act insulted when you're the one who started a pissing contest in the first place.
I can recognize a delusional fan when i see one, cheering for the name and not the performance, they also resort to insulting because they cant actually say anything of consequence.
On January 29 2016 04:47 DavoS wrote: Were Secret's losses stomps or were they pretty good games?
Game 1 was a ticking bomb and game 2 was a complete stomp by OG, tiebreak games and bo2 with col were far more entertaining from a secret fan point of view.
On January 29 2016 03:32 spudde123 wrote: Goody may not be expressing himself the best but come on dude. You may have a point in OG supports using their time better in deciding who to protect and when and where to be than EG or Secret currently (if that was part of your point), but the way you worded things originally is just bullshit, as proven by how Secret has done things in a lot of games after they were formed.
Also pretty sure when Goody talks about the "EE sucking" comment it is about you saying "EE tilts" out of nowhere when it apparently had no relevance to the discussion.
Tilting is pretty relavant when it comes to being willing to sacrifice. I was questioned whether I had seen C9 games, and I refered to a very specific and infamous weakness. Somehow "old C9" was being brought up, when I talked about Secret, as if it mattered, but it still failed for him and you.
Goody may not be expressing himself the best? The guy agrees with me, and still try to make an argument, pretending I am him.
N0tail is not a support. This was about the difference between how things work in EG and Secret, and then OG, where I use N0tails and the teams willingness to sacrifice him. WILLINGNESS. Not hurting their gameplan. Both of you proceed to explain that EE has been ganked before, hurting the team, and now W33, not understanding what is being relayed to you.
Saying that EE tilts doesn't mean that he sucks. He is emotional. As is Misery. They are both good players.
The problem being that you two do not understand things said, but that are your shortcomings. What is even worse, is you do not even understand the consequence of what yourselves say.
......
At no point did I say anything about EE being ganked and it hurting the team. I only talked about whether they've sacced him early to guarantee resources to others so the team can win the game (not hurting their gameplan as you would call it), which they have done successfully. Goody may have said something along those lines as regards to w33, hence the "may not be expressing himself the best".
When I talked about supports it was to talk about the players who generally are the ones who either protect a player or choose to use their time elsewhere. And I think OG often plays the early game well, compared to Secret for example.
The entire discussion seems a bit silly. It started by you talking as if individual players don't want to do something, which is proven to be incorrect just by observing games. Now you are talking about how well the gameplans of teams work out, which is not at all the topic that people disagreed on.
Saying that EE tilts doesn't mean that he sucks. He is emotional. As is Misery. They are both good players.
Being prone to choking in tournaments makes you a less valuable and less stable player, let's not act like controlling your emotions is not part of your skill. There's a reason teams like EG excel under pressure on big LANs while others crumble.
Being less valuable than another doesn't mean that either one sucks.
On January 29 2016 03:32 spudde123 wrote: Goody may not be expressing himself the best but come on dude. You may have a point in OG supports using their time better in deciding who to protect and when and where to be than EG or Secret currently (if that was part of your point), but the way you worded things originally is just bullshit, as proven by how Secret has done things in a lot of games after they were formed.
Also pretty sure when Goody talks about the "EE sucking" comment it is about you saying "EE tilts" out of nowhere when it apparently had no relevance to the discussion.
Tilting is pretty relavant when it comes to being willing to sacrifice. I was questioned whether I had seen C9 games, and I refered to a very specific and infamous weakness. Somehow "old C9" was being brought up, when I talked about Secret, as if it mattered, but it still failed for him and you.
Goody may not be expressing himself the best? The guy agrees with me, and still try to make an argument, pretending I am him.
N0tail is not a support. This was about the difference between how things work in EG and Secret, and then OG, where I use N0tails and the teams willingness to sacrifice him. WILLINGNESS. Not hurting their gameplan. Both of you proceed to explain that EE has been ganked before, hurting the team, and now W33, not understanding what is being relayed to you.
Saying that EE tilts doesn't mean that he sucks. He is emotional. As is Misery. They are both good players.
The problem being that you two do not understand things said, but that are your shortcomings. What is even worse, is you do not even understand the consequence of what yourselves say.
......
At no point did I say anything about EE being ganked and it hurting the team. I only talked about whether they've sacced him early to guarantee resources to others so the team can win the game (not hurting their gameplan as you would call it), which they have done successfully. Goody may have said something along those lines as regards to w33, hence the "may not be expressing himself the best".
When I talked about supports it was to talk about the players who generally are the ones who either protect a player or choose to use their time elsewhere. And I think OG often plays the early game well, compared to Secret for example.
The entire discussion seems a bit silly. It started by you talking as if individual players don't want to do something, which is proven to be incorrect just by observing games. Now you are talking about how well the gameplans of teams work out, which is not at all the topic that people disagreed on.
It is silly you talk about C9 and supports, when the talk is about N0tail, OG, Secret and EG. You're the ones making a valid point go off rail, because you want to say something, when you shouldn't, and can't counter my argument, because you are both clueless.
It is silly you try to reiterate what the discussion was about, when you have lost track.
If you actually watched games, you'd know that EE tilts. OG often loses early game. Do you even watch dota? Or do you just not understand what you see? Both?
On January 29 2016 04:32 haxhax wrote: I'm calling a spade a spade. So don't act insulted when you're the one who started a pissing contest in the first place.
I can recognize a delusional fan when i see one, cheering for the name and not the performance, they also resort to insulting because they cant actually say anything of consequence.
You are baiting to be insulted. You are new to the game, we understand.
It is not so much about being delusional, but you having no idea what you are talking about, and have to backpedal eventually, as proven several times.
It is funny you state that he says something insulting, instead of something of consequence, when he does, and you don't. Even in your insults you are way off the mark.
On January 29 2016 04:32 haxhax wrote: I'm calling a spade a spade. So don't act insulted when you're the one who started a pissing contest in the first place.
I can recognize a delusional fan when i see one, cheering for the name and not the performance, they also resort to insulting because they cant actually say anything of consequence.
You are baiting to be insulted. You are new to the game, we understand.
It is not so much about being delusional, but you having no idea what you are talking about, and have to backpedal eventually, as proven several times.
It is funny you state that he says something insulting, instead of something of consequence, when he does, and you don't. Even in your insults you are way off the mark.
You are cute when you are angry and wrong Just like my 12 year old brother.
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/1/18/MarsTV2015.jpg)
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EHOME vs ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/2/28/Eglogo_std.png)
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