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On February 15 2015 09:51 Kishin2 wrote:
This hero feels unbalanced to me. All her abilities are strong in every stage of the game and she has good stat gain. Can flash farm with W even though she doesn't need items to be impactful. Disagree with her having weak laning too.
Was comparing her to CM lol. Almost all heroes have weak laning compared to CM.
Her laning isn't weak, I just find it to be the time when she's weakest (especially at level 2, the 50 second CD on the q is brutal) compared to other supports. The other late-game supports are way worse in lane than she is, or at the least harder to use (or situational like shadow demon).
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50 sec CD on Q is fine because it's so good. It's a guaranteed 40%+ damage on health if get a hit off at the start and end. Not difficult when it has a 25% slow too. I guess she her low damage, armor, and range means she can't actively zone out heroes, but everything else is really strong.
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On February 15 2015 10:30 Kishin2 wrote:
50 sec CD on Q is fine because it's so good. It's a guaranteed 40%+ damage on health if get a hit off at the start and end. Not difficult when it has a 25% slow too. I guess she her low damage, armor, and range means she can't actively zone out heroes, but everything else is really strong.
You can only apply the buff once per cast. Also it's current HP not max HP. Either way the skill is still really good, and would be broken with a lower cooldown at lower levels.
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On February 15 2015 10:11 DucK- wrote:
You know you don't always need to land multi heroes ulti. Sometimes you just need to treat it as a bkb piercing disable.
This, I'd say that like half the time I use it it's just to roar some fucker so the carry can beat him down or to interrupt a TP
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On February 15 2015 10:41 Jinxed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 10:30 Kishin2 wrote:
50 sec CD on Q is fine because it's so good. It's a guaranteed 40%+ damage on health if get a hit off at the start and end. Not difficult when it has a 25% slow too. I guess she her low damage, armor, and range means she can't actively zone out heroes, but everything else is really strong. You can only apply the buff once per cast. Also it's current HP not max HP. Either way the skill is still really good, and would be broken with a lower cooldown at lower levels.
It also makes it possible to get some really weird angles to attack an offlaner at night because of the ridiculous extra night vision, range, and flying (just 6 seconds but that's enough to get to some spots only batrider or a blink hero can usually get to).
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On February 15 2015 10:41 Jinxed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 10:30 Kishin2 wrote:
50 sec CD on Q is fine because it's so good. It's a guaranteed 40%+ damage on health if get a hit off at the start and end. Not difficult when it has a 25% slow too. I guess she her low damage, armor, and range means she can't actively zone out heroes, but everything else is really strong. You can only apply the buff once per cast. Also it's current HP not max HP. Either way the skill is still really good, and would be broken with a lower cooldown at lower levels.
I ran that calculation assuming it's current hp, but you're right. I didn't know that the buff doesn't reset.
I'm not sure if it's worth it to get lvl 2 in Winter's Curse at 11. Getting +.25 duration and -10 second cd per level isn't that great. It's probably good skill it if you're dealing with pushes, but getting more points into embrace should generally be better.
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I mean, even just an extra .25 is worth it over 1 second cooldown and 1% more hp/sec on Cold Embrace. Even if that is just 1 extra attack that's still extremely worth it I think. Especially as the mana cost doesn't increase on it.
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Now that i have decent games going with WW, i will go on record to say this: this hero is terrible. Stats is good, spell is good, but the lack of Movespeed ruin EVERYTHING. Combining with the lack of escape mechanism, you are pretty fucked if your team actually count on you to save them with your E.
Between Q and W, maxing W first is quite a temptation. It gives you the damage you want at early phase of mid game to actually get a gank successful. But its a situational skill so mostly you end up not using it or use it ineffectively. Maxing Q seems like the right way to go as the cooddown and mana cost relief you from the need of items as support. But it doesnt have that much impact in fights. Its also worth notice that as a support, getting level 9 will be a struggle so which ever route you commit will hurt you one way or another. Right now im just going 3-3-1-1 or sometime just save up skill points.
Item wise Tranquil seems nice until you realise that going mana boot could boost up your farm tremendously. Stack the big camp 3 times and spam W(if you happen to max it) and you are good for the rest of the game in term of gold. Overall there is no way to compensate for your lack of movespeed with support gold. I think bracer and urn are requirement and Eul+force are luxurious. The overall goal of item build is just to stay alive and utilize your spells short cooldown to make impacts.
I dislike WW right now... in a sense he is a much slower, less survivable bane with more AoE but the AoE is often wasted. In sense, I think bane and Oracle both offer much more than WW on the support slot atm. May be he could be very strong on a tanky line up with Bristle as core and Magnus as mid? but the pick is just way too limited and inflexible compare to other choices.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
Yeah hero is super squishy and the primary nuke is really awkward to use
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On February 15 2015 10:43 TomatoBisque wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 10:11 DucK- wrote:
You know you don't always need to land multi heroes ulti. Sometimes you just need to treat it as a bkb piercing disable. This, I'd say that like half the time I use it it's just to roar some fucker so the carry can beat him down or to interrupt a TP
It can also be a zoning tool on top of that. If you ulti someone it creates a nice radius that no one can enter for 3s and can be used to divide up teamfights or prevent supports from engaging in.
In terms of speed, I don't see how WW's speed is any more of a hindrance than it is for any other support that ends up in a similar situation.
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seems pretty good for the beast event both offensively and defensively
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wws rly rly good
go tranqs + mppots -> force -> blink
generally 3111 or 2211 by 6, after that max q or w depending on game
farming stacks is overrated. u can do it but ur better off nuking down waves if u really need money
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On February 15 2015 13:51 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 10:43 TomatoBisque wrote:On February 15 2015 10:11 DucK- wrote:
You know you don't always need to land multi heroes ulti. Sometimes you just need to treat it as a bkb piercing disable. This, I'd say that like half the time I use it it's just to roar some fucker so the carry can beat him down or to interrupt a TP It can also be a zoning tool on top of that. If you ulti someone it creates a nice radius that no one can enter for 3s and can be used to divide up teamfights or prevent supports from engaging in. In terms of speed, I don't see how WW's speed is any more of a hindrance than it is for any other support that ends up in a similar situation.
Well think of it like this, if other supports dont have escape skills, they still have disables or high nukage that could threaten anything that was chasing them. WW doesnt have that, AND it is slow.... Its like a Support sniper, long range, good damage but offer next to nothing.
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On February 15 2015 15:35 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 13:51 Logo wrote:On February 15 2015 10:43 TomatoBisque wrote:On February 15 2015 10:11 DucK- wrote:
You know you don't always need to land multi heroes ulti. Sometimes you just need to treat it as a bkb piercing disable. This, I'd say that like half the time I use it it's just to roar some fucker so the carry can beat him down or to interrupt a TP It can also be a zoning tool on top of that. If you ulti someone it creates a nice radius that no one can enter for 3s and can be used to divide up teamfights or prevent supports from engaging in. In terms of speed, I don't see how WW's speed is any more of a hindrance than it is for any other support that ends up in a similar situation. Well think of it like this, if other supports dont have escape skills, they still have disables or high nukage that could threaten anything that was chasing them. WW doesnt have that, AND it is slow.... Its like a Support sniper, long range, good damage but offer next to nothing.
There are a lot of ways I would describe Auroth's ult, but "next to nothing" is not one of them. Most of the others involve swearwords.
I like blink. She's a very positional hero with very low MS; seems like a no-brainer. You can choose whether to be blink beastmaster or blink magnus each time Curse is off CD, and it also helps position to save allies.
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have only played with this hero on my team, and seems pretty useful as a 5 pos support. the freeze counter initiate is really great vs legion/void etc, and the ult stun seems really useful. good in lane too with q.
I dunno seems pretty solid overall to me.
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On February 15 2015 16:05 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 15:35 NB wrote:On February 15 2015 13:51 Logo wrote:On February 15 2015 10:43 TomatoBisque wrote:On February 15 2015 10:11 DucK- wrote:
You know you don't always need to land multi heroes ulti. Sometimes you just need to treat it as a bkb piercing disable. This, I'd say that like half the time I use it it's just to roar some fucker so the carry can beat him down or to interrupt a TP It can also be a zoning tool on top of that. If you ulti someone it creates a nice radius that no one can enter for 3s and can be used to divide up teamfights or prevent supports from engaging in. In terms of speed, I don't see how WW's speed is any more of a hindrance than it is for any other support that ends up in a similar situation. Well think of it like this, if other supports dont have escape skills, they still have disables or high nukage that could threaten anything that was chasing them. WW doesnt have that, AND it is slow.... Its like a Support sniper, long range, good damage but offer next to nothing. There are a lot of ways I would describe Auroth's ult, but "next to nothing" is not one of them. Most of the others involve swearwords. I like blink. She's a very positional hero with very low MS; seems like a no-brainer. You can choose whether to be blink beastmaster or blink magnus each time Curse is off CD, and it also helps position to save allies.
the difference here is mag and BM are cores while WW is being played as support. Blink could be achieved around 20 mins but thats at the cost of your lack of mana/stats items. A more realistic expectation would be around 30-35 mins, may be after euls/force.
Tbh with the cooldown on her W, i could see her being run as a core. Running mid, bottle and spam lane out like mag. But to translate that into mid game ganks with the lack of ms...
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On February 15 2015 15:33 Dead9 wrote:
wws rly rly good
go tranqs + mppots -> force -> blink
generally 3111 or 2211 by 6, after that max q or w depending on game
farming stacks is overrated. u can do it but ur better off nuking down waves if u really need money
What is "mppots"?
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On February 15 2015 13:35 NB wrote:
Now that i have decent games going with WW, i will go on record to say this: this hero is terrible. Stats is good, spell is good, but the lack of Movespeed ruin EVERYTHING. Combining with the lack of escape mechanism, you are pretty fucked if your team actually count on you to save them with your E.
Between Q and W, maxing W first is quite a temptation. It gives you the damage you want at early phase of mid game to actually get a gank successful. But its a situational skill so mostly you end up not using it or use it ineffectively. Maxing Q seems like the right way to go as the cooddown and mana cost relief you from the need of items as support. But it doesnt have that much impact in fights. Its also worth notice that as a support, getting level 9 will be a struggle so which ever route you commit will hurt you one way or another. Right now im just going 3-3-1-1 or sometime just save up skill points.
Item wise Tranquil seems nice until you realise that going mana boot could boost up your farm tremendously. Stack the big camp 3 times and spam W(if you happen to max it) and you are good for the rest of the game in term of gold. Overall there is no way to compensate for your lack of movespeed with support gold. I think bracer and urn are requirement and Eul+force are luxurious. The overall goal of item build is just to stay alive and utilize your spells short cooldown to make impacts.
I dislike WW right now... in a sense he is a much slower, less survivable bane with more AoE but the AoE is often wasted. In sense, I think bane and Oracle both offer much more than WW on the support slot atm. May be he could be very strong on a tanky line up with Bristle as core and Magnus as mid? but the pick is just way too limited and inflexible compare to other choices.
I disagree, this hero is very strong! Her W isn't that hard to use in a gank because you can usually fire it from fog (absurd range), and in teamfights you're probably happy if you hit two people with it. Also its cd is really low, so you're probably gonna get two or three off in a fight if you manage to survive.
I've been maxing W on her without thinking twice, but I'm not sure yet about maxing Q over E second. Maxing E first seems like it's not worth it in terms of how much is actually healed, but I've found that little extra can make a huge difference in keeping someone barely alive.
As for her comparison with Bane, Bane has a huge issue with spell wind-up, which is something that she doesn't. This is especially important when you have something like a storm jumping around, or when you're caught by surprise, etc. Also, she has better range on her everything (800 vs 625 range on her ult makes her better than bane against bkb carries and ults like enigma/void imo).
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On February 16 2015 01:39 Just_a_Moth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 15:33 Dead9 wrote:
wws rly rly good
go tranqs + mppots -> force -> blink
generally 3111 or 2211 by 6, after that max q or w depending on game
farming stacks is overrated. u can do it but ur better off nuking down waves if u really need money What is "mppots"?
Mana pots i guess.
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short guide to winter wyvern:
q: this is the best spell you have in laning. it's also very strong as an escape/scouting skill. you don't get flying vision but flying over trees and stuff owns
w: this spell sucks. it's a big nuke though so you still want to max it first or second
e: use this to save teammates or heal up between fights. max it last tho, the extra heal isn't really that big of a deal
r: this spell's broken
laning: open support items (since this is pubs you're probably on wards and courier) + tangoes + clarity* 4. if you have extra money you can buy branches or an hppot. alternately you can save a bit of money for earlier boots
get as many points of q as you need to zone out the offlaner. every cooldown hit q and rightclick their offlaner, then go hide in the trees til it's off cooldown. once your ulti is up you can try to go for a kill depending on lane. versus trilanes max q or w depending on their positioning. i'd still recommend maxing q, but against short range trilanes w might be better. don't forget to buy wards.
post laning: follow ppl around. place wards. etc, normal support stuff
skill progression: always 4412 -> 4443. however early game progression is flexible. skip e if at all possible, but sometimes it's nice to have depending on lane
generally go 3201, 3111, or 2211 early game, then max q or w depending on game (q is better most of the time, but w nice for counterpush or gigantic teamfights
item progression: tranqs -> medallion -> force/blink
just carry around like 5 mana pots if you need more mana. you shouldn't need very much, ww's mana pool is gigantic
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EPT
