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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 98
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The Great Taste
389 Posts
The actual button doesn't work, but you can hit F7 to bring up the XP graph. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
On March 11 2012 12:56 The Great Taste wrote: "MKB for damage in general (specially great for attacking towers from the low ground)" :O useful pointer haha I only thought it was for units. But I always go Buriza after Manta (and BKB if needed) on Mirana. Pretty sure for pure DPS against enemy heroes Buriza > MKB for all heroes unless they have heroes with evasion. Buriza is a great scaling item, but it relies on you having already high DPS. I would not go for it as my second DPS item - what it provides at that stage is not as good as other items such as MKB for pure DPS or butterfly ect for the survivability benefits. | ||
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kethers
United States719 Posts
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
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MahKh
144 Posts
On March 12 2012 10:13 DoNotDisturb wrote: What's the damage type for Urn's Soul Release? Is it HP removal, which means I can salve while I'm being damaged or something else? you can urn while your being negatively urned so id assume its hp removal | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 12 2012 10:59 MahKh wrote: you can urn while your being negatively urned so id assume its hp removal hp removal. reason being was when it was actually damage, it would cancel out daggers, bottles, and other restoratives, making it an incredibly powerful item | ||
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
On March 12 2012 11:12 ChrisXIV wrote: Why is Viper not used in competitive games? Fitting him into a team can be really annoying. He is very good verse WR and Dseer though. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On March 12 2012 11:22 TheWarbler wrote: Fitting him into a team can be really annoying. He is very good verse WR and Dseer though. He's slow, needs disables to set him up, has no escape mechanism, and requires time in battle to deal damage (anti-burst). I really like him but he's just not that great of a hero and doesn't fit in with the playstyles of today. Edit: I also did some math a while back on MKB vs Buriza. Nothing new or interesting and probably not that great in a pinch, but if you're into designing item builds and whatnot... Daedalus vs MKB + Show Spoiler + Daedalus: +81 damage 25% 2.5x critical = .75 + .25*2.5 = 1.375 = 37.5% damage increase DPS = APS * D Define pre-existing damage as X, pre-existing AS as Y Post-Daedalus damage D = (X+81)*1.375 = 111.375 + 1.375X AS = Y/100 APS = (1+Y/100)/BAT DPS = (111.375 + 1.375X)(1+Y)/BAT MKB: +88 damage + 15 AS +100 damage 35% of the time = +35 damage per hit MKB in reality = 88+35 = 123 damage per hit Post-MKB damage D = X+123 AS = (Y+15)/100 APS = (1.15 + Y/100)/BAT DPS = (X+123)(1.15+Y/100)/BAT Solving for X and Y DPS output of MKB and Daedalus are the same when: MKB - Daedalus (X+123)(1.15+Y/100)/BAT = (111.375+1.375X)(1+Y/100)/BAT (X+123)(115 + Y) = (111.375+1.375X)(100 + Y) 115X + XY + 14145 + 123Y = 11137.5 + 111.375Y + 137.5X + 1.375XY 3007.5 + 11.625Y = 22.5X + 0.375XY 30075 + 116.25Y = 225X + 3.75XY 120300 + 465Y = 900X + 15XY 8020 + 31Y = 60X + XY 8020 + 31Y = X(Y + 60) (31Y + 8020)/(Y + 60) = X If X > (31Y+8020)/(Y+60) buy Daedalus If X < (31Y+8020)/(Y+60) buy MKB Random example #1 (note: BAT is not accounted for but it doesn't really matter): Skeleton King deals 200 damage per attack and has 200 AS. (323)(1.15+2) ? (386.375)(1+2) 1017.45 < 1159.125 Daedalus gives more DPS Skeleton King deals 100 damage per attack and has 200 AS (223)(3.15) ? (248.875)(3) 702.45 < 746.625 Daedalus gives more DPS Skeleton King deals 100 damage per attack and has 100 AS (223)(2.25) ? (248.875)(2) 501.75 > 497.75 MKB gives more DPS Conclusion: We all know that Daedalus sucks at low base damage levels. If I weren't lazy I could graph this out and whatnot but as of right now will leave it like this. I suppose what's useful if you are trying to flesh out a hero's item build you could set a damage level and see what AS you'd need to merit getting one item or the other... If you do 100 damage per attack, at what AS does it not matter between MKB and Daedalus? (223)(1.15 + Z/100) = (248.875)(1 + Z/100) 256.45 + 2.23Z = 248.875 + 2.48875Z 7.575 = .25875Z 29.275 = Z So if you have 29 AS better to get MKB... and at 30 AS better to get Daedalus? (223)(1.15+.29) ? (248.875)(1+.29) 321.12 > 321.04875 (223)(1.15+.3) ? (248.875)(1+.3) 323.35 < 323.5375 If you do 75 damage per attack, at what AS does it not matter between MKB and Daedalus? (198)(1.15 + Z/100) = (214.5)(1+Z/100) 227.7 + 1.98Z = 214.5 + 2.145Z 13.2 = .165Z 80 = Z So if you have 79 IAS better to get MKB and at 81 IAS better to get Daedalus. (198)(1.15+.79) > (214.5)(1+.79) 384.12 > 383.955 (198)(1.96) < (214.5)(1.81) 388.08 < 388.245 | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
it's not about the damage tho, buriza is going to add more dps pretty much all of the time, and it's going to be more useful earlier since it starts off with the crystalys the ministun and true strike are what make mkb better most of the time | ||
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
Daedalus scales better when armor reduction is present. MKB is a better item overall but when it comes to raw damage daedalus is the way to go. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 12 2012 21:31 ilovelings wrote: We are also forgetting something important. Daedalus scales better when armor reduction is present. How so? Armor-based damage reductions are applied as a multiplier after everything else. It should have no effect on the breakeven point between Buriza and MKB. Unless you meant the fact that melee bashes do magical damage and are therefore not affected by armor calculations--but in that case you'd have to redo the numbers entirely accounting for the fact that the mini-bash on a melee hero isn't armor-reduced the whole way through. And in the context of the original question (as it pertains to Mirana), the hero is ranged anyway, so the mini-bash proc benefits from armor reduction just like everything else. | ||
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
30% extra of 60bonus damage vs 30% extra damage of a 600damage crit. Do the numbers. The damage boost caused by armor reduction affects everyone the same but as it is % based the higher the damage dealt the higher the nominal number of extra damage is. 30% damage increase because of armor redaction from 60 bonus damage = around 30 extra damage 30% of a 600dmg critical hit = 200 extra damage This is the main reason why heros like Skelle king have deso as core or optional (in case of mortred) | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 12 2012 21:45 ilovelings wrote: The % of damage augmented is higher because critical hits deal a lot more damage. 30% extra of 60bonus damage vs 30% extra damage of a 600damage crit. Do the numbers. The damage boost caused by armor reduction affects everyone the same but as it is % based the higher the damage dealt the higher the nominal number of extra damage is. 30% damage increase because of armor redaction from 60 bonus damage = around 30 extra damage 30% of a 600dmg critical hit = 200 extra damage This is the main reason why heros like Skelle king have deso as core or optional (in case of mortred) That doesn't serve to affect the mathematical breakeven point. It means that if there is a difference in DPS, it serves to magnify that difference, but it doesn't change the point at which there is no difference between MKB and Buriza DPS. Consider the DPS breakeven equation: (X+123)(1.15+Y/100)/BAT = (111.375+1.375X)(1+Y/100)/BAT Armor/armor reduction only serves to multiply/divide both sides equally by the same factor, which means in determining equality, it doesn't change anything. | ||
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
hence i'm right because I said that it scaled better. | ||
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
On March 12 2012 21:45 ilovelings wrote: The % of damage augmented is higher because critical hits deal a lot more damage. 30% extra of 60bonus damage vs 30% extra damage of a 600damage crit. Do the numbers. The damage boost caused by armor reduction affects everyone the same but as it is % based the higher the damage dealt the higher the nominal number of extra damage is. 30% damage increase because of armor redaction from 60 bonus damage = around 30 extra damage 30% of a 600dmg critical hit = 200 extra damage This is the main reason why heros like Skelle king have deso as core or optional (in case of mortred) This.. That.. But... That's not how maths works. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 12 2012 22:03 ilovelings wrote: "it serves to magnify that difference" hence i'm right because I said that it scaled better. Except it doesn't magnify things in just the case where Buriza is better. It magnifies the DPS difference in situations where MKB is better as well. When Buriza gives more DPS, armor reduction magnifies the difference. When MKB gives more DPS, armor reduction also magnifies that difference. Armor reduction doesn't favor any source of physical damage over another. | ||
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