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United States47024 Posts
Unless a kill gives you a timing that you won't get otherwise, it's simply not an effective use of time to try and force a tower until you have Vlad's. The difference in pushing speed between having just Basi vs. having a completed Vlad's is just too big, especially when teammates are involved.
It's quite possible that you'd actually get the tower faster by farming till Vlad's because unless the enemy off-laner died with a huge wave shoving into his tower, it will take several attempts to actually take the tower without Vlad's, and committing Wolves to doing so kills your farming tempo. Vlad's only needs a double wave with a siege creep, and you'll either take the tower or force multiple TPs + Glyph, AND Vlad's can much more easily rotate back into farming even if you took damage or are too low mana to resummon Wolves.
Even when you want to take a tower, the safe lane tower is almost always going to be the one to take, not mid. Unless the enemy mid laner utterly abandons the lane, or your mid laner is a pusher who could take the tower solo anyway, the mid lane tower is actually harder for you to push down. The lane is too short to allow the necessary creep buildup to really force down the tower--while the safe lane can single pull to stack up waves when you want to push making it much easier to get the necessary double wave to take the tower.
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On January 02 2014 19:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 11:32 winterymint wrote:
The ideal all around jungle strategy:
1) medium camp
2) check if they warded, if not. Pull small and make sure you chain it.
3) check rune, ask if mid wants it or not otherwise take it.
4) several more mediums until you are lvl 5. Push mid. Push mid on low hp with low hp wolves and no ability to resummon them, or indeed survive vs something like a Puck, QoP, SF, Storm, Kunkka, Pudge or pretty much any other common mid hero? Good plan sir.
look at minimap, use map awareness, if you see key gankable heroes missing, continue jungle. Push mid when you see four on map. Sorry I should have mentioned that as well.
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I always thought starting with a quelling blade allowed for faster jungling. Is getting a Ring of Bas first really faster?
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if you cant micro wolf, the basi with +2 armor is good though since either item route, mana still pretty tight for Lukan.
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United States47024 Posts
You buy the QB after you have the gold. Having Basi's armor is important for getting through the pre-suicide portion of the jungle--the alternative would be to start regen, which is kind of awkward when you plan on suiciding anyway.
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United States42654 Posts
On January 03 2014 02:51 Skyro wrote:
I always thought starting with a quelling blade allowed for faster jungling. Is getting a Ring of Bas first really faster?
It's pretty interchangeable but in my experience, yes. You have the quelling in courier to you by about 45 seconds in anyway but the basilius damage bonus and being able to micro your wolves less/use them to tank more works out better than the extra quelling blade damage.
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I'm having trouble with the first easy camp tbh. If I summon the wolves at 0.00 I will arrive at the camp way after the creeps spawned, so I started summoning at -0.03.Am I missing something here? Also I wonder what position is closest to the camp but does not actually block them from spawning? I try going through the small gap from the lane close to the t2 but it feels like I waste a couple seconds when I'm not coming in from the side. Unfortunately that way I block the creeps from spawning more often than not.
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I tried the clicking wolf on lycan trick to lose agro on my wolf, it works sometimes and not in other times. Is there a reason why it wouldn't work? do i have to keep spaming it till it works?
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On January 03 2014 04:40 rei wrote:
I tried the clicking wolf on lycan trick to lose agro on my wolf, it works sometimes and not in other times. Is there a reason why it wouldn't work? do i have to keep spaming it till it works?
This.
Also, how worth is it to go BoTs instead of treads? I get the fact that getting it right after roshan means you can do sick split pushing, but after a while I sort of miss the attack speed. Can't always get AC either, since someone else might be getting it before me
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The suicidng idea sounds selfish when you can help ur team by guarding/taking rune
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you can also help your team by hitting your timings.
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United States42654 Posts
On January 03 2014 05:40 winterymint wrote:
The suicidng idea sounds selfish when you can help ur team by guarding/taking rune
That critical 3 minute rune.
Did you even read the topic?
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United States42654 Posts
On January 03 2014 04:40 rei wrote:
I tried the clicking wolf on lycan trick to lose agro on my wolf, it works sometimes and not in other times. Is there a reason why it wouldn't work? do i have to keep spaming it till it works?
Yes, there is a timing element to it. You need to do it between the enemy attack animations. I try to do it directly following one. If you do it during an attack animation then it doesn't switch off of you.
Golems are dicks, they sometimes switch back anyway.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 03 2014 05:49 KwarK wrote:
Golems are dicks, they sometimes switch back anyway.
Be thankful it's not like DotA 1 where different creeps had weird AI, like the Gnolls always tagging every enemy in range once to refresh poison, Wildkins focus-targeting your hero regardless of other units, or Wolves focus-targeting a low HP unit even if you try to de-aggro.
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I want to chime in on this topic: I'm doing the same suicide at lvl 3, but I start 1 clarity stout qb and get RoR and mask before I die. I actually dont get medallion and just go treads after vlads, and I find that I can hit a 7 min vlads and 10 min treads with smoke and a additional clarity pretty consistently. The advantage of this method is that I rarely get below 50 % hp after the suicide and also during roshing, and I only use the courier 3 times: RoP, finished vlads, treads + smoke. I also usually dont run out of mana before my rosh attempt.
I get the idea behind BoT necro 3, but I acually havent experienced that many situations where it is useful. You either hope that a) your enemies are bad and dont react to your split push or b) your team is good enough that they can capitalize on a potential 4v4 or 4v3 when people tp back to defend. Treads give you a lot of stats for just 1k gold.
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United States42654 Posts
How do you rosh without the medallion?
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
Eh my interpretation of neutral creep aggro when you a - click yourself is that it is just like tower/rosh aggro and they retarget their closest enemy. I could be wrong...
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United States42654 Posts
You're wrong about towers too. Towers also work with the attack animation.
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
What I'm saying is distance is what dictates its new target.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 03 2014 07:27 KwarK wrote:
How do you rosh without the medallion?
Rosh without Medallion is doable, it's just really slow and therefore really dangerous.
On January 03 2014 07:37 Firebolt145 wrote:
What I'm saying is distance is what dictates its new target.
This is only true if all targets are attacking the tower, otherwise it prioritizes targets attacking it over targets that aren't.
If the Wolf you a-clicked onto yourself is already beginning an attack on the neutral again when it re-selects aggro, it will be a valid target again.
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EPT
