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On May 08 2018 19:09 Sapaio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2018 16:50 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah it is make or break but with how some of the teams have shown vulnerabilties at the moment in the likes of VP and Secret because "they have nothing to play for" so to speak as they are already qualified, might open some doors. Is it just me, or has the new point system lead to that the top teams seem to be holding back a little at the moment to avoid fatigued and get figured out before TI. Some teams seem to more try out new heroes and strategies then actually win at the moment. Think EG has a real chance to win one of these next tournament, just hope that it's not like last year where they developed really nice strat that TL figured out before TI, and left them looking ordinary in TI.
Don't know why VP and Secred played bad, but i can guarantee that Liquid wanted third epicenter, & First Major win. They just drafted mediocore at best, and played questionable when it mattered, especially in the finals. However, they also had a lot of games (especially Q1 2018) when they didn't play at their maximum to test new stuff.
Main thing now are those patches that come every two weeks - it shifts the meta completeley, so you don't know who will be favoured after next patch.
VP & MIneski were owning last couple of months, then a patch later Mineski look like tier 2 team, VP look shaky, and LGD own? And i kind of don't like this situation. Old patch system was betetr - giving teams time to addapt and develop the meta now is much more messy. If a patch suits a certain playstyle your team owns a for a couple of weeks, then it changes.
So the question is what team will own the meta during the TI Patch?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
On May 08 2018 19:09 Sapaio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2018 16:50 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah it is make or break but with how some of the teams have shown vulnerabilties at the moment in the likes of VP and Secret because "they have nothing to play for" so to speak as they are already qualified, might open some doors. Is it just me, or has the new point system lead to that the top teams seem to be holding back a little at the moment to avoid fatigued and get figured out before TI. Some teams seem to more try out new heroes and strategies then actually win at the moment. Think EG has a real chance to win one of these next tournament, just hope that it's not like last year where they developed really nice strat that TL figured out before TI, and left them looking ordinary in TI.
Yeah win Manila Masters got undefeated until grand finals of EPICENTER to lose 0-3 to Liquid after 2-0 them following day then the wheels fell off and they did nothing at TI xD
On May 08 2018 21:50 NInoff wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2018 19:09 Sapaio wrote:On May 08 2018 16:50 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah it is make or break but with how some of the teams have shown vulnerabilties at the moment in the likes of VP and Secret because "they have nothing to play for" so to speak as they are already qualified, might open some doors. Is it just me, or has the new point system lead to that the top teams seem to be holding back a little at the moment to avoid fatigued and get figured out before TI. Some teams seem to more try out new heroes and strategies then actually win at the moment. Think EG has a real chance to win one of these next tournament, just hope that it's not like last year where they developed really nice strat that TL figured out before TI, and left them looking ordinary in TI. Don't know why VP and Secred played bad, but i can guarantee that Liquid wanted third epicenter, & First Major win. They just drafted mediocore at best, and played questionable when it mattered, especially in the finals. However, they also had a lot of games (especially Q1 2018) when they didn't play at their maximum to test new stuff. Main thing now are those patches that come every two weeks - it shifts the meta completeley, so you don't know who will be favoured after next patch. VP & MIneski were owning last couple of months, then a patch later Mineski look like tier 2 team, VP look shaky, and LGD own? And i kind of don't like this situation. Old patch system was betetr - giving teams time to addapt and develop the meta now is much more messy. If a patch suits a certain playstyle your team owns a for a couple of weeks, then it changes.
So the question is what team will own the meta during the TI Patch?
Seems this week "patch" might be the Battle Pass / TI Compendium stuff so hopefully won't be anything as there is due to be a balance patch this week right. Which would be right in the middle of GESC. Then the next patch after that is due right in the middle of ESL One Major. And yes you guessed it, the patch after that is due smack bang in the middle of China Super Major xD
Thursday 10th May
Thursrday 24th May
Thursday 7th June
All "patch days" for the 2 week philiosophy of Ice Frog atm
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On May 08 2018 19:09 Sapaio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2018 16:50 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah it is make or break but with how some of the teams have shown vulnerabilties at the moment in the likes of VP and Secret because "they have nothing to play for" so to speak as they are already qualified, might open some doors. Is it just me, or has the new point system lead to that the top teams seem to be holding back a little at the moment to avoid fatigued and get figured out before TI. Some teams seem to more try out new heroes and strategies then actually win at the moment. Think EG has a real chance to win one of these next tournament, just hope that it's not like last year where they developed really nice strat that TL figured out before TI, and left them looking ordinary in TI.
If you think TL held back and didn't want their first Major win, you are lying to yourself. LGD was just better.
VP and Secret already won Majors, they may have no drive atm.
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The question is always what team will own the meta during the TI patch, though. Or more precisely, the tournament itself will have a meta somewhat distinct from other tournaments/the patch at large, and the team that figures it out best will win.
Believe it or not, it was not a sure thing that Liquid would win TI7 before the tournament started. It could have been a TI6 Secret situation. TL still had to catch, understand, and dominate the meta at the actual tournament.
People are attributing too much to the patch system, and also forgetting reality. Mineski almost disbanded right before they won their major. They weren't "owning last couple of months." They finished outside top 8 in both prior tournaments they made, and 3rd/4th in a SEA Starladder qualifier right before DAC. Some patch changes definitely impacted VP's strats but they also have been locked into TI for months, and they're known to be cocky and get bored playing the same stuff all the time. Teams also simply cannot remain on top forever, as TL's players are known to say--if you try to go 100% the whole year, you will burn out.
What is really happening is the top teams are very close to each other's level, but the season is long and some teams are going to have peaks at the times other teams have valleys. The patches have an impact (and they're an easy scapegoat for the teams and players to whine about) but focusing on them to the exclusion of the other huge factors in team performance is really silly, whether you're just a fan or a player/coach.
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I also dislike this new patch system. I don't think just 15 days with a given patch is enough to explore all the possibilities the changes might provide.
However, this makes it very difficult for 1 team to dominate for a long period of time, which makes the pro circuit more competitive.
The patch changes shouldn't hurt EG though as they were not playing anything since DAC and should have had enough time to explore the changes and come up with new tricks.
On May 09 2018 00:02 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2018 19:09 Sapaio wrote:On May 08 2018 16:50 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah it is make or break but with how some of the teams have shown vulnerabilties at the moment in the likes of VP and Secret because "they have nothing to play for" so to speak as they are already qualified, might open some doors. Is it just me, or has the new point system lead to that the top teams seem to be holding back a little at the moment to avoid fatigued and get figured out before TI. Some teams seem to more try out new heroes and strategies then actually win at the moment. Think EG has a real chance to win one of these next tournament, just hope that it's not like last year where they developed really nice strat that TL figured out before TI, and left them looking ordinary in TI. Yeah win Manila Masters got undefeated until grand finals of EPICENTER to lose 0-3 to Liquid after 2-0 them following day then the wheels fell off and they did nothing at TI xD Show nested quote +On May 08 2018 21:50 NInoff wrote:On May 08 2018 19:09 Sapaio wrote:On May 08 2018 16:50 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah it is make or break but with how some of the teams have shown vulnerabilties at the moment in the likes of VP and Secret because "they have nothing to play for" so to speak as they are already qualified, might open some doors. Is it just me, or has the new point system lead to that the top teams seem to be holding back a little at the moment to avoid fatigued and get figured out before TI. Some teams seem to more try out new heroes and strategies then actually win at the moment. Think EG has a real chance to win one of these next tournament, just hope that it's not like last year where they developed really nice strat that TL figured out before TI, and left them looking ordinary in TI. Don't know why VP and Secred played bad, but i can guarantee that Liquid wanted third epicenter, & First Major win. They just drafted mediocore at best, and played questionable when it mattered, especially in the finals. However, they also had a lot of games (especially Q1 2018) when they didn't play at their maximum to test new stuff. Main thing now are those patches that come every two weeks - it shifts the meta completeley, so you don't know who will be favoured after next patch. VP & MIneski were owning last couple of months, then a patch later Mineski look like tier 2 team, VP look shaky, and LGD own? And i kind of don't like this situation. Old patch system was betetr - giving teams time to addapt and develop the meta now is much more messy. If a patch suits a certain playstyle your team owns a for a couple of weeks, then it changes.
So the question is what team will own the meta during the TI Patch? Seems this week "patch" might be the Battle Pass / TI Compendium stuff so hopefully won't be anything as there is due to be a balance patch this week right. Which would be right in the middle of GESC. Then the next patch after that is due right in the middle of ESL One Major. And yes you guessed it, the patch after that is due smack bang in the middle of China Super Major xD Thursday 10th May Thursrday 24th May Thursday 7th June All "patch days" for the 2 week philiosophy of Ice Frog atm
Valve has already announced that if patches are scheduled to come out mid tournament, it would be postponed till end of the tournament.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Oh how come they already allowed the patches to come out mid/day before tournament in the past? xD
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On May 09 2018 04:00 Pandemona wrote:
Oh how come they already allowed the patches to come out mid/day before tournament in the past? xD
I guess they finally understood that introducing so much luck factor at the group stages is really irritating for the fans and the players. The Epicenter Group B matches might have also influenced their decision. This announcement came out sometime during Epicenter, though I am not sure if it was before or after the upsets of Group B in the tournament.
However, I am not sure if they will follow this for GESC minor though, but 100% sure that is what they announced for the majors.
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They stated this rule will only apply to majors, so expect a patch mid GESC
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On May 09 2018 05:08 Pontual wrote:
They stated this rule will only apply to majors, so expect a patch mid GESC
So GESC will have different patches for group stages and play-offs. :-|
I hope the changes are not as major like the ones during DAC and Epicenter.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Yeah hope the patch is just a small tweak to things indeed. Oh well lets see what happens, EG about to start there first game!
Very interesting and fast draf from EG. Rating morphling high was probably the most normal thing from the draft due to Rtc is good on that hero and it is very strong right now. But picking IO again and the first time i can remember EG playing a Disruptor line up which involves normally being a bit fast paced. Leaving Fear hero for last pick also interesting.
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They're solid when they have their picks, but still want to see more variety on their gameplan. They're playing well as a team so that's good
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They showed a few new picks like disruptor or axe, which is nice. Great to see them cruise through day 1, but the real test comes tomorrow with Secret and Fnatic.
BLEED BLUE
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If they beat Fnatic or Secret and win out against the lesser teams they're guaranteed DPC points.
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On May 10 2018 00:23 Gaial wrote:
If they beat Fnatic or Secret and win out against the lesser teams they're guaranteed DPC points.
They are going to beat both 
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Ok so that Secret game was just a bit of a fiesta from both sides for me. Lots and lots of fighting everywhere resulting in some miss plays on both sides. Best of 3 between EG and Secret would be close right now i think.
If we beat Fnatic that be great for some 3 way ties.
Ok stuff to learn from day two for sure, now need to get into the semi finals to secure valuable points then hopefully comeback stronger in a bo3 vs Secret i think we will be in the bracket vs after playing TFT/Keen in a bo3 tomorrow.
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the secret game was crazy good and i dont mind losing that one, but getting outplayed by fnatic like that hurts. hope they figure it out and bring the good stuff tomorrow, should be an easy first round
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I guess they beat the teams that should have beat either way and lost to the 2 toss up, we need more games to see if there was an actual improvement.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Yeah if they lost to Fnatic like that in a bo3 i guess it might be problematic, lets see what happens on the weekend
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Fnatic is not far from beating them tbh however if that like execration or somebody like that then that's problematic.
Nor is losing to secret a problem. Idk about you guys but eg never felt above the teams who beat themm they aren't VP yah know
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EPT
