EPTEvil Geniuses Discussion - Page 184
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cold_flame
Burma2 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
Fnatic plays so different then other teams and one loss to them can be a learning experince. Think the Warlock for Fnatic tends to break teamfights into smaller fights that Fnatic come out on top of. So learning to deal with it can be helpful in the long run and maybe they can learn to use it them selfs. Going on i would ban in this tournament i would ban lock and late game heroes against Fnatic as games tend to be long with them. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
KG says hold my beer | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
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Doneld G.
61 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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melkor3
Austria50 Posts
I think the last draft vs KG was bad, because they draftet rarely played heroes (Kunkka and Disruptor) and gave the other team their beloved Carry the third time in a row. After game 1 you should know that their PL is pretty strong so why give them the heroes they want and take new heroes for myself. I just don't get it. And Misery Disruptor wasn't a thing. I never saw a good cage + ultimate just running around and dying everywhere. I'm sure that this is not his hero. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On May 11 2018 16:20 LemOn wrote: Worried about loss to Secret or Fnatic? KG says hold my beer Worried about loss to Secret. Didnt really see loss to KG coming. | ||
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550
418 Posts
you can just see a bad quality of gameplay so obvious.. but there was so many weird things in EG as well, somewhat looked like clunky fear, worrying RTZ, persistent sumail (tunnel visioned for that roar).. confused misery.. seems like the whole package of communication problem | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51489 Posts
Reason they won game 2 was becauses they actually made proper space for Rtc and his Luna so he could get level 25 at minutes 30 and win the game. Game 3 they lost the same way as game 1 where they let Rtc die cuz no space for him and everyone else didn't really have anything from the laning stage. Kunka also seemed a bit of a ok lets try it pick which seems bit strange for the final bo3! Just pick a DK and push with it at least the 4 man becomes way stronger idk. Oh well, got some game time and some experience, now they are in desperate need of top 4 at the major ouch! | ||
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
Heavily static laning, not rotating. 2 man over extensions into 3 or 4 man chain feeds to throw away their lead. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51489 Posts
I think they need to go back to draftin Position 3-4-5 first 3 picks and then if it requires a sumail mid hero then you do that like they did with the Ember game. They have been falling back into the prio Fear pick strat which isn't good nor imo is it needed. Fear can play any hero, some way better than others of course, but he can still do a good enough job on an offlane doom as he proved, then let someone like sumail play the kunka mid in the last game or maybe even a core Pony. | ||
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
On May 12 2018 00:20 Pandemona wrote: I don't why they haven't they have shown so far this season they "can adapt" though, they went from being bad and kicking universe to adapting for like 3 lans in a row when they were scoring points, to then the last month or so being a bit predictable. I think they need to go back to draftin Position 3-4-5 first 3 picks and then if it requires a sumail mid hero then you do that like they did with the Ember game. They have been falling back into the prio Fear pick strat which isn't good nor imo is it needed. Fear can play any hero, some way better than others of course, but he can still do a good enough job on an offlane doom as he proved, then let someone like sumail play the kunka mid in the last game or maybe even a core Pony. I don't think picks are the problem. Liquid, VP, LGD all rotate to punish dives, look at the kills in their games. If the opposing team dives their T1, they rotate 1-2 heroes always getting 1-2 kills in return. EG decides not to rotate and try and pressure their other lanes more and hope the gold will come out ahead. Also, Misery and Crit are constantly getting picked off alone. Yes, they're worth a lot less gold, but they are not protecting their carries. Arteezy still constantly gets found found alone in jungle. They're hurting their vision and map control because 1 of EG's supports is constantly dying and re-spawning at fountain. There were 56 deaths between Misery and Crit vs Keen, while EG only secured 17 more total kills of their own. They are very unsure as a squad what the game plan is. Who needs to be shut down? Who do we need to facilitate to win? What's the best way to do it? It seems EG either ignores the early or mid game strategy. It's not coherent. EG reminded me of Newbee this tournament, sticking to what worked for them 3 months ago when they were successful. | ||
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
On May 12 2018 00:20 Pandemona wrote: I don't why they haven't they have shown so far this season they "can adapt" though, they went from being bad and kicking universe to adapting for like 3 lans in a row when they were scoring points, to then the last month or so being a bit predictable. They didnt really adapt, they changed players, captain and positions, this resulted in a forced style change. They themself havnt changed or adapted a bit, still trying to force their way to play. €dit: the only one that is rdy to do or play anything to win is god fear. | ||
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arghyad1
India243 Posts
How morphling was supported (and RTZ's map awareness) in game 3 was also so disappointing in the last game. He came out of lane leading the networth chart for either team, and dies 4 times within the next 10-ish minutes to the same skill. I mean, couldn't someone have put down sentries where RTZ would farm after he got doomed and died right after laning stage? To me, those 4 deaths gave Keen the momentum they needed and put them in the driver's seat firmly. On May 11 2018 19:32 Pandemona wrote: now they are in desperate need of top 4 at the major ouch! I think they would need atleast a 3rd in ESL or Supermajor and might need a top 4 along with it as well to get invite; or a top 2 at either event. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
ppd's solution to working with RTZ was that the 2-3-4 could gank the map as a roaming death squad. Then he'd either join them or protect RTZ. This worked until Puppey perfected the "Global Presence" strat. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2195748703 That series changed RTZ's playing career. EG was the best team in the tournament, but Puppey figured out how to punish RTZ. (w33ha's insane Invoker play in game 3 didn't hurt either.) We see a repeat of this issue. EG has to get RTZ off to a good start or start putting him on more scaling semi-carries. This means when the meta shifts to lane dominating, there becomes a lot of ways to exploit RTZ. Optic has the same issue, roughly, though Pajkatt does play less hard farmers more often, but the exact same thing happens. Nightstalker & NP go meta and can exploit as an aggressive laning phase and snowball. If the Meta slows down, RTZ & EE's teams will do better. If it stays fast, expect them to really struggle. EG could also use a stronger voice for "This is how we're going to win this match." I joked about EG.Kyle, but I honestly would recommend they pick him up for coaching purposes for TI. At the same time, the problems can turn around within a tournament.  EPICENTER/2017 Epicenter 2017 is fascinating, in hindsight. TL made it to the bracket when they looked bad and got a little lucky with OG throwing a bit. But they had a problem: Miracle's hero pool. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3235483600 That series turned TL from 5th-8th at TI7 to the winners. Kuroky stopped making the drafts around Miracle and forced Miracle to play around the strategy of the matches. In a meta that was late-game based at that tournament, TL went super early at each match, culminating in dropping EG with super aggressive laning in the finals.Professional Dota is incredibly complex, but the core aspect is you need a strategy that you can execute to win a match. Then you have to ruthlessly implement it. That's how you, in the end, win. Right now EG always seems very vague on how they plan to win matches, which is why they don't seem on the same page most of the time, yet they're still individually skilled enough to otherwise beat most teams. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51489 Posts
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arghyad1
India243 Posts
On May 12 2018 21:41 Pandemona wrote: Ok well this tournament was weird, VGJ Storm managed to win it after losing to all teams minus keen in group stage xD VGJ.Storm beat all teams minus Fnatic, Secret and EG in group stage. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 12 2018 21:41 Pandemona wrote: Ok well this tournament was weird, VGJ Storm managed to win it after losing to all teams minus keen in group stage xD Storm played well in the bracket, but I really do think some of the teams were probably partying a little too hard. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
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