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We understand that this topic evokes strong feelings. In the interest of maintaining a necessary and productive discussion, we will be taking a strong stance against posters that clearly do not contribute to this aim. Dishonest and bad faith arguments, victim blaming, and attacks on other users, will be strictly moderated. A post which only serves to muddy the waters and dishonestly portray the nature of assault and harassment (and corresponding accusations) is also unwelcome. This is a serious topic. Please treat it as such. If you have feedback on how we should approach this topic on LiquidDota, please see here. |
Tobiwan
Accused of Assault
Meruna, Synderen's long-time girlfriend, has accused Tobiwan of sexual assualt.
Another member alleges an attempt :
Community members have been pouring in believing her and
distancing themselves from Tobi.
Synderen
LD(BTS, largest casting studio)
Tobi's Response
He first issued a poorly received twitlonger that has since been deleted. His current one is here:
Update : Meruna's response to Tobi's response
ttps://twitter.com/Meruna_/status/1276195535536500738
Valve's Response
Valve has removed Tobi's voicelines from the battlepass, which is their first public reaction about any of the current allegations.
Update:
Further corroboration of Tobi's behavior has been provided by Pyrionflax.
Maelk, who Pyrion notes was Tobi's boss at the time, responded on reddit. He confirms the account and notes he brought the incident to the CEO.
I don't recall the conversations verbatim, but I assure you there's been nothing sinister in bringing up Pyrion's name and that I am prone to think that I asked to be able to do so in order to circumstantiate the allegations and put more weight behind them in confronting him and hopefully get an honest answer and truthful recollection of what had transpired. Ultimately, it was all denied and when trying to pursue the matter further through the victim (I have never known the name) and all I had to go on was her word and a screenshot of a text message of them agreeing to meet in his hotel room, it was incredibly difficult to pursue further. I took it to our company's CEO at the time, as I no longer felt confident in what to do or how to further see it through, and ultimately left the company shortly thereafter (albeit unrelated to this incident).
[...]
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/hfvy7w/comment/fw0ifee
Further updates :
Evidence was provided to insiders. They've discussed it :
Od Pixel
LD
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I don't support any kind of sexual harassment but I have been in a situation that I was falsely accused by a coworker and it was proven by the HR department. So think before you make an opinion.
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He had to go, and it's good that it doesn't get too drawn out. Great caster, and by all accounts, terrible human being.
EDIT: He sort-of admitted it, and Valve+BTS cutting him instantly is all the proof needed to verify accusations, for me at least
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It is synderens girlfriend and she has nothing to gain from this.
Should still keep in mind that a career and possibly a life/family is ruined over something that happened 9 years ago and that we know very little about and which will never go to court.
According to his twitter Tobiwan is based in the UK. He is accused of rape. The UK's libel laws are some of the toughest on the planet. Depending on what was said in their last conversation he might have a case.
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On June 26 2020 05:23 vitalja wrote:
I don't support any kind of sexual harassment but I have been in a situation that I was falsely accused by a coworker and it was proven by the HR department. So think before you make an opinion.
I am sorry that happened to you.
At this point there are two people who have made public allegations against TobiWan and despite admitting he has done, "horrible things," in the past when he went into specifics the only thing he confessed to was having consensual relationships with several girls. He's been incredibly inconsistent in his telling of events and the entire way he has handled everything has come across extremely slimy.
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On June 26 2020 05:32 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 05:23 vitalja wrote:
I don't support any kind of sexual harassment but I have been in a situation that I was falsely accused by a coworker and it was proven by the HR department. So think before you make an opinion. I am sorry that happened to you. At this point there are two people who have made public allegations against TobiWan and despite admitting he has done, "horrible things," in the past when he went into specifics the only thing he confessed to was having consensual relationships with several girls. He's been incredibly inconsistent in his telling of events and the entire way he has handled everything has come across extremely slimy.
years ago Tobi was accused by Starladder of unbecoming behaviour and was banned from their events. But then he became very big and the face of Dota. I am still skeptical, but I admit that he probably has issues.
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On June 26 2020 05:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
It is synderens girlfriend and she has nothing to gain from this.
Should still keep in mind that a career and possibly a life/family is ruined over something that happened 9 years ago and that we know very little about and which will never go to court.
According to his twitter Tobiwan is based in the UK. He is accused of rape. The UK's libel laws are some of the toughest on the planet. Depending on what was said in their last conversation he might have a case.
Whether this ruins his relationship is mainly up to him and his partner.
It is influenced by the public's reaction but not dictated by it.
His reaction leaves little leeway to argue that he could stay in this community. Finding a job elsewhere should he possible. Though his behaviour until now doesn't make for a good redemption arc material.
Also important to point out that he ruined it himself through his actions and not making amends. Albeit that is easier said than done.
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On June 26 2020 05:44 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 05:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
It is synderens girlfriend and she has nothing to gain from this.
Should still keep in mind that a career and possibly a life/family is ruined over something that happened 9 years ago and that we know very little about and which will never go to court.
According to his twitter Tobiwan is based in the UK. He is accused of rape. The UK's libel laws are some of the toughest on the planet. Depending on what was said in their last conversation he might have a case. Whether this ruins his relationship is mainly up to him and his partner. It is influenced by the public's reaction but not dictated by it. His reaction leaves little leeway to argue that he could stay in this community. Finding a job elsewhere should he possible. Though his behaviour until now doesn't make for a good redemption arc material. Also important to point out that he ruined it himself through his actions and not making amends. Albeit that is easier said than done.
I don't really care about Tobi so it was more a statement about damage done.
Legally he has done nothing wrong (yet). Libel requires a written statement that is not true. The seriousness off the offence (and the amount you can sue for) depends on the magnitude of the accusation, the number of people reached by the message and the impact on your life.
In this case he has been accused of rape (extremely serious), the message was posted on twitter and has been seen by hundreds of thousands of people who know who he is and his career, and possibly marriage is ruined.
Merune was very unclear on what exactly he said about that specific part of the conversation. For her sake I hope that he 100 % admitted that yes he did not take no for an answer at that point. If he did not say this it's word against word which I assume means that there is a 0 % chance of him getting convicted of rape at this point.
If he is based in the UK and there is a legal way to pursue this, and he chose to do this it could get very serious.
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On June 26 2020 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 05:44 Artisreal wrote:On June 26 2020 05:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
It is synderens girlfriend and she has nothing to gain from this.
Should still keep in mind that a career and possibly a life/family is ruined over something that happened 9 years ago and that we know very little about and which will never go to court.
According to his twitter Tobiwan is based in the UK. He is accused of rape. The UK's libel laws are some of the toughest on the planet. Depending on what was said in their last conversation he might have a case. Whether this ruins his relationship is mainly up to him and his partner. It is influenced by the public's reaction but not dictated by it. His reaction leaves little leeway to argue that he could stay in this community. Finding a job elsewhere should he possible. Though his behaviour until now doesn't make for a good redemption arc material. Also important to point out that he ruined it himself through his actions and not making amends. Albeit that is easier said than done. I don't really care about Tobi so it was more a statement about damage done. Legally he has done nothing wrong (yet). Libel requires a written statement that is not true. The seriousness off the offence (and the amount you can sue for) depends on the magnitude of the accusation, the number of people reached by the message and the impact on your life. In this case he has been accused of rape (extremely serious), the message was posted on twitter and has been seen by hundreds of thousands of people who know who he is and his career, and possibly marriage is ruined. Merune was very unclear on what exactly he said about that specific part of the conversation. For her sake I hope that he 100 % admitted that yes he did not take no for an answer at that point. If he did not say this it's word against word which I assume means that there is a 0 % chance of him getting convicted of rape at this point. If he is based in the UK and there is a legal way to pursue this, and he chose to do this it could get very serious.
There is a 0% chance TobiWan is going to successfully sue either girl for libel.
Are you crazy?
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I thought Tobi was Australian? I imagine he has moved his base around quite a bit though.
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On June 26 2020 06:23 Nevuk wrote:
I thought Tobi was Australian? I imagine he has moved his base around quite a bit though.
that's what i thought too considering his twiter says it.
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On June 26 2020 06:08 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 26 2020 05:44 Artisreal wrote:On June 26 2020 05:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
It is synderens girlfriend and she has nothing to gain from this.
Should still keep in mind that a career and possibly a life/family is ruined over something that happened 9 years ago and that we know very little about and which will never go to court.
According to his twitter Tobiwan is based in the UK. He is accused of rape. The UK's libel laws are some of the toughest on the planet. Depending on what was said in their last conversation he might have a case. Whether this ruins his relationship is mainly up to him and his partner. It is influenced by the public's reaction but not dictated by it. His reaction leaves little leeway to argue that he could stay in this community. Finding a job elsewhere should he possible. Though his behaviour until now doesn't make for a good redemption arc material. Also important to point out that he ruined it himself through his actions and not making amends. Albeit that is easier said than done. I don't really care about Tobi so it was more a statement about damage done. Legally he has done nothing wrong (yet). Libel requires a written statement that is not true. The seriousness off the offence (and the amount you can sue for) depends on the magnitude of the accusation, the number of people reached by the message and the impact on your life. In this case he has been accused of rape (extremely serious), the message was posted on twitter and has been seen by hundreds of thousands of people who know who he is and his career, and possibly marriage is ruined. Merune was very unclear on what exactly he said about that specific part of the conversation. For her sake I hope that he 100 % admitted that yes he did not take no for an answer at that point. If he did not say this it's word against word which I assume means that there is a 0 % chance of him getting convicted of rape at this point. If he is based in the UK and there is a legal way to pursue this, and he chose to do this it could get very serious. There is a 0% chance TobiWan is going to successfully sue either girl for libel. Are you crazy?
Isn't there? Why not? He stands to gain his yearly income x 20-30 or so in damages if he is successful.
The first girl is safe. First rule of outing someone for sexual harassment is do not be specific. Ever. Saying that someone is a creep, made you feel unsafe, was predatory etc is all perfectly safe.
Saying that someone raped you is specific and is an accusation of a defined crime. Libel is accusing someone of something that is not true. A crime only happened if you were convicted off it (or in this case probably also if you have a written confession).
A journalist that got exposed in the Swedish #metoo wave recently successfully sued his accuser of libel and our laws are far more lenient. That guy had been charged with rape but was never convicted and was by all accounts a real slimeball towards women and what he did was far worse than Tobi. But she outed him for rape which was a bad idea.
So for Merunes sake let's hope that a) there is a solid confession in writing b) the pauses he took when being evasive was really because of his wife and not because he was consulting with his lawyer c) Tobi is not in a country/position where he can sue for libel d) he is not aware of the option.
Because otherwise there is a real chance of not only sueing for libel but actually winning the case as well.
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On June 26 2020 06:34 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 06:08 overt wrote:On June 26 2020 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 26 2020 05:44 Artisreal wrote:On June 26 2020 05:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
It is synderens girlfriend and she has nothing to gain from this.
Should still keep in mind that a career and possibly a life/family is ruined over something that happened 9 years ago and that we know very little about and which will never go to court.
According to his twitter Tobiwan is based in the UK. He is accused of rape. The UK's libel laws are some of the toughest on the planet. Depending on what was said in their last conversation he might have a case. Whether this ruins his relationship is mainly up to him and his partner. It is influenced by the public's reaction but not dictated by it. His reaction leaves little leeway to argue that he could stay in this community. Finding a job elsewhere should he possible. Though his behaviour until now doesn't make for a good redemption arc material. Also important to point out that he ruined it himself through his actions and not making amends. Albeit that is easier said than done. I don't really care about Tobi so it was more a statement about damage done. Legally he has done nothing wrong (yet). Libel requires a written statement that is not true. The seriousness off the offence (and the amount you can sue for) depends on the magnitude of the accusation, the number of people reached by the message and the impact on your life. In this case he has been accused of rape (extremely serious), the message was posted on twitter and has been seen by hundreds of thousands of people who know who he is and his career, and possibly marriage is ruined. Merune was very unclear on what exactly he said about that specific part of the conversation. For her sake I hope that he 100 % admitted that yes he did not take no for an answer at that point. If he did not say this it's word against word which I assume means that there is a 0 % chance of him getting convicted of rape at this point. If he is based in the UK and there is a legal way to pursue this, and he chose to do this it could get very serious. There is a 0% chance TobiWan is going to successfully sue either girl for libel. Are you crazy? Isn't there? Why not? He stands to gain his yearly income x 20-30 or so in damages if he is successful. The first girl is safe. First rule of outing someone for sexual harassment is do not be specific. Ever. Saying that someone is a creep, made you feel unsafe, was predatory etc is all perfectly safe. Saying that someone raped you is specific and is an accusation of a defined crime. Libel is accusing someone of something that is not true. A crime only happened if you were convicted off it (or in this case probably also if you have a written confession). A journalist that got exposed in the Swedish #metoo wave recently successfully sued his accuser of libel and our laws are far more lenient. That guy had been charged with rape but was never convicted and was by all accounts a real slimeball towards women and what he did was far worse than Tobi. But she outed him for rape which was a bad idea. So for Merunes sake let's hope that a) there is a solid confession in writing b) the pauses he took when being evasive was really because of his wife and not because he was consulting with his lawyer c) Tobi is not in a country/position where he can sue for libel d) he is not aware of the option. Because otherwise there is a real chance of not only sueing for libel but actually winning the case as well.
it's not libel, stop defending him. Go read Meruna's twitlonger
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9phu
"The person who could not take "No" for an answer and initiated sexual activity with me against my clear and repeated wishes is Toby "TobiWan" Dawson.
You will not need to yell for proof. Toby has admitted to doing this in a private conversation I had with him today, the first time we talked in 9 years. I initiated this conversation; he did not contact me." the guy self-admitted it and had a private conversation.
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I don't really want to engage in the libel conversation any further because it:
A) Distracts from the topic at hand.
B) If you legitimately believe he has a serious libel claim I don't think you actually understand how libel works. You have to actually prove that the statements are false which is impossible in this situation.
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On June 26 2020 06:40 saocyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 06:34 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 26 2020 06:08 overt wrote:On June 26 2020 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 26 2020 05:44 Artisreal wrote:On June 26 2020 05:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
It is synderens girlfriend and she has nothing to gain from this.
Should still keep in mind that a career and possibly a life/family is ruined over something that happened 9 years ago and that we know very little about and which will never go to court.
According to his twitter Tobiwan is based in the UK. He is accused of rape. The UK's libel laws are some of the toughest on the planet. Depending on what was said in their last conversation he might have a case. Whether this ruins his relationship is mainly up to him and his partner. It is influenced by the public's reaction but not dictated by it. His reaction leaves little leeway to argue that he could stay in this community. Finding a job elsewhere should he possible. Though his behaviour until now doesn't make for a good redemption arc material. Also important to point out that he ruined it himself through his actions and not making amends. Albeit that is easier said than done. I don't really care about Tobi so it was more a statement about damage done. Legally he has done nothing wrong (yet). Libel requires a written statement that is not true. The seriousness off the offence (and the amount you can sue for) depends on the magnitude of the accusation, the number of people reached by the message and the impact on your life. In this case he has been accused of rape (extremely serious), the message was posted on twitter and has been seen by hundreds of thousands of people who know who he is and his career, and possibly marriage is ruined. Merune was very unclear on what exactly he said about that specific part of the conversation. For her sake I hope that he 100 % admitted that yes he did not take no for an answer at that point. If he did not say this it's word against word which I assume means that there is a 0 % chance of him getting convicted of rape at this point. If he is based in the UK and there is a legal way to pursue this, and he chose to do this it could get very serious. There is a 0% chance TobiWan is going to successfully sue either girl for libel. Are you crazy? Isn't there? Why not? He stands to gain his yearly income x 20-30 or so in damages if he is successful. The first girl is safe. First rule of outing someone for sexual harassment is do not be specific. Ever. Saying that someone is a creep, made you feel unsafe, was predatory etc is all perfectly safe. Saying that someone raped you is specific and is an accusation of a defined crime. Libel is accusing someone of something that is not true. A crime only happened if you were convicted off it (or in this case probably also if you have a written confession). A journalist that got exposed in the Swedish #metoo wave recently successfully sued his accuser of libel and our laws are far more lenient. That guy had been charged with rape but was never convicted and was by all accounts a real slimeball towards women and what he did was far worse than Tobi. But she outed him for rape which was a bad idea. So for Merunes sake let's hope that a) there is a solid confession in writing b) the pauses he took when being evasive was really because of his wife and not because he was consulting with his lawyer c) Tobi is not in a country/position where he can sue for libel d) he is not aware of the option. Because otherwise there is a real chance of not only sueing for libel but actually winning the case as well. it's not libel, stop defending him. Go read Meruna's twitlonger https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9phu"The person who could not take "No" for an answer and initiated sexual activity with me against my clear and repeated wishes is Toby "TobiWan" Dawson. You will not need to yell for proof. Toby has admitted to doing this in a private conversation I had with him today, the first time we talked in 9 years. I initiated this conversation; he did not contact me." the guy self-admitted it and had a private conversation.
I'm not defending him and as I said I hope it's something that proves exactly what she says and not a carefully worded statement that is not a legal admission of rape.
I don't really want to engage in the libel conversation any further because it:
A) Distracts from the topic at hand.
B) If you legitimately believe he has a serious libel claim I don't think you actually understand how libel works. You have to actually prove that the statements are false which is impossible in this situation.
I don't think that's correct but OK, let's drop the libel discussion. Time will tell I guess.
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Man all this has turned into a real shitshow REAL fast. Hopefully we will see some people reporting it to the police as well!
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On June 26 2020 06:46 overt wrote:
I don't really want to engage in the libel conversation any further because it:
A) Distracts from the topic at hand.
B) If you legitimately believe he has a serious libel claim I don't think you actually understand how libel works. You have to actually prove that the statements are false which is impossible in this situation.
This differs from country to country. In my country you have to proof that your claim is correct if you get sued, not the other way round.
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after reading toby's twitlonger , he didnt deny @Meruna's accusations but did deny other women's accusations which does hint me that one is true while other may not be , as for Meruna situation , they will very likely have a case if she has has proof or witness that can confirm her side of story , pretty sure he will go to jail.
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Couldn't find anything in meruna's accusations that would make him go to jail, is there anything more than those 2 twitlonger ?
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EPT
