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On July 03 2020 00:03 saocyn wrote:New Accusations against toby With Text Messages https://medium.com/@genghiskhatt/about-toby-dawson-again-fb1adef6ac8eSTOP sympathizing with toby. No one cares about how good his "casting" was. He's a Rapist and a predator, end of story. If you care more about your enjoyment of dota than the victims of his predatory behavior you are part of the problem which enables it. We're not here to talk about his casting, we're here to talk about his crimes. I don't care what you think about how much he contributed to the community, he equally destroyed it. He enriched himself while preying on the community he brought up, so no he didn't contribute anything to it. Dota will be better off without him so the actual people who are deserving of his spot can come fourth now that he's not a gatekeeper. The audacity of him attempting to teach "White History" Clearly he couldn't teach it in Australia, so he moved to the UK so he could continue his racist rhetoric. Probably a White Power supporter too behind closed doors. Not surprised he chose UK as a destination. Just look at how he tries to spin the narrative of being held accountable. "i'm building an esports university, i'm putting my daughter to bed now" like just shut up. you're not doing anything in this community and you're not a member who contributed to it. The only thing you should be doing is sitting in a jail cell reflecting.
Did that woman just say "power dynamics" ? WTF? That is so demeaning to woman, its treating grown ass hairy fucking woman as little children, as if they are unable to make decisions on their own and Toby a fucking commentator on a semi successful game (back in 2014-2017) like god! Toby a fucking commentator on a semi successful video game is god and this grown ass woman is a small child with no brains and can't think for her own, so this god Toby abused his godliness to flirt with her. Jesus Christ!
Yeah Dota 2 is very popular right now and for the past several years, but from 2013-2017 it wasn't so big, yeah it had gamers play it, but overshadowed by most other games like CS:GO, LOL, WOW, SC2, GTA 5, etc... Commentators were hardly getting paid serious money outside of TI and we even had several major commentators complain that not getting invited at TI is a financial disaster for them, because even if they did 10 events they still get paid more for just doing a TI.
So again taking just this article, its clear that the whole thing is a joke. Grown ass woman ARE responsible for their OWN actions, they are NOT children, they are GROWN ASS ADULTS with full comprehension of consent.
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On July 08 2020 02:33 PlayerofDota wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2020 00:03 saocyn wrote:New Accusations against toby With Text Messages https://medium.com/@genghiskhatt/about-toby-dawson-again-fb1adef6ac8ehttps://twitter.com/GenghisKhatt/status/1277349375165861888STOP sympathizing with toby. No one cares about how good his "casting" was. He's a Rapist and a predator, end of story. If you care more about your enjoyment of dota than the victims of his predatory behavior you are part of the problem which enables it. We're not here to talk about his casting, we're here to talk about his crimes. I don't care what you think about how much he contributed to the community, he equally destroyed it. He enriched himself while preying on the community he brought up, so no he didn't contribute anything to it. Dota will be better off without him so the actual people who are deserving of his spot can come fourth now that he's not a gatekeeper. The audacity of him attempting to teach "White History" Clearly he couldn't teach it in Australia, so he moved to the UK so he could continue his racist rhetoric. Probably a White Power supporter too behind closed doors. Not surprised he chose UK as a destination. Just look at how he tries to spin the narrative of being held accountable. "i'm building an esports university, i'm putting my daughter to bed now" like just shut up. you're not doing anything in this community and you're not a member who contributed to it. The only thing you should be doing is sitting in a jail cell reflecting. Did that woman just say "power dynamics" ? WTF? That is so demeaning to woman, its treating grown ass hairy fucking woman as little children, as if they are unable to make decisions on their own and Toby a fucking commentator on a semi successful game (back in 2014-2017) like god! Toby a fucking commentator on a semi successful video game is god and this grown ass woman is a small child with no brains and can't think for her own, so this god Toby abused his godliness to flirt with her. Jesus Christ! Yeah Dota 2 is very popular right now and for the past several years, but from 2013-2017 it wasn't so big, yeah it had gamers play it, but overshadowed by most other games like CS:GO, LOL, WOW, SC2, GTA 5, etc... Commentators were hardly getting paid serious money outside of TI and we even had several major commentators complain that not getting invited at TI is a financial disaster for them, because even if they did 10 events they still get paid more for just doing a TI. So again taking just this article, its clear that the whole thing is a joke. Grown ass woman ARE responsible for their OWN actions, they are NOT children, they are GROWN ASS ADULTS with full comprehension of consent.
I have had semilar ideas is this. The whole idelogy of metoo and power dynamics reduced the adult women to some kind of person with out the willpower to say what she want and doesn't want. It describe women as fragile beings without mind and will.
For me some of the same ideas was the reason why women should not have the right to vote about one hundred years ago.
I know a male has more physical strength in general then women, and I don't think you should force women phisical or by threat to something they don't want, but I want and expect that a person should put a stop to it (if not drugged or in sleep etc.)
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I'm sorry you feel like a caster (or man) you respect was unfairly cancelled. I -get- the anger as a response, and get feeling like some aspect of your person is attacked alongside this caster. I think that the perspective of "the whole thing is a joke", however, HAS to be rooted in ignorance, and I encourage you to go over all the public claims made against Toby, and the people that back and support those claims, and think about your stance for a bit.
Also, "Power Dynamics" isn't a gendered phrase. If a dude waiter at a restaurant has a woman he's serving say "I'd love to sit on your face" to him and he doesn't have the freedom to say "That's fucking gross, what the hell" without fear of getting fired, that's power dynamics. It has nothing to do with him being a grown ass adult.
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On July 08 2020 03:05 Fleetfeet wrote:
I'm sorry you feel like a caster (or man) you respect was unfairly cancelled. I -get- the anger as a response, and get feeling like some aspect of your person is attacked alongside this caster. I think that the perspective of "the whole thing is a joke", however, HAS to be rooted in ignorance, and I encourage you to go over all the public claims made against Toby, and the people that back and support those claims, and think about your stance for a bit.
Also, "Power Dynamics" isn't a gendered phrase. If a dude waiter at a restaurant has a woman he's serving say "I'd love to sit on your face" to him and he doesn't have the freedom to say "That's fucking gross, what the hell" without fear of getting fired, that's power dynamics. It has nothing to do with him being a grown ass adult.
OK the fear of lossing a job is power dynimic, then why are so many people going off on enablers.
It's some how easier to loss job or income to stand up for some one else then then the victim standing up for her self. It's a moral improgative to stand up for other people but not for your self. This is not the real world and never will be.
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On July 07 2020 22:20 Mosquitesterone wrote:
I have been looking around on different sites to try to find information about this since the story broke, but I haven't been able to find information regarding the criminal investigations against Tobiwan, since ofcourse charges must have been filed with the police at this stage since the evidence is said to clearly prove he has commited either rape or sexual assault/harassment which are both serious crimes, does anyone have any updates?
I know you're just being a total asshole but I figured I'd point out that the police almost never charge people for sexual assault or rape.
When multiple women are raising red flags and providing evidence to the people in the industry it's fully within that industry's right to decide they no longer wish to do business with them. If someone accused you of sexually assaulting them at work any company worth it's shit would investigate. They'd interview witnesses, they'd ask for texts or emails, and if they concluded that you were more than likely guilty of what you were accused of they'd absolutely fire your ass.
The burden of proof for criminal charges is way way way higher than this as you're taking away a human being's freedom. In most western countries (and especially the United States) if your employer has a probable cause to end your employment that's all it really takes.
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Yeah, in the US only about 4.6% of sexual assaults / rapes result in an arrest. Less than 1% end in convictions (source). The vast majority of these crimes, in almost any western country, are ignored by local authorities.
When you talk about eSports events and you have people from different countries congregated into a third country it gets even more messed up to try and file criminal charges. Most women don't get any sort of justice.
So, yes, people who say to involve the authorities are either uninformed or are intentionally suggesting a solution that won't actually do anything.
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On July 08 2020 03:21 Sapaio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2020 03:05 Fleetfeet wrote:
I'm sorry you feel like a caster (or man) you respect was unfairly cancelled. I -get- the anger as a response, and get feeling like some aspect of your person is attacked alongside this caster. I think that the perspective of "the whole thing is a joke", however, HAS to be rooted in ignorance, and I encourage you to go over all the public claims made against Toby, and the people that back and support those claims, and think about your stance for a bit.
Also, "Power Dynamics" isn't a gendered phrase. If a dude waiter at a restaurant has a woman he's serving say "I'd love to sit on your face" to him and he doesn't have the freedom to say "That's fucking gross, what the hell" without fear of getting fired, that's power dynamics. It has nothing to do with him being a grown ass adult. OK the fear of lossing a job is power dynimic, then why are so many people going off on enablers. It's some how easier to loss job or income to stand up for some one else then then the victim standing up for her self. It's a moral improgative to stand up for other people but not for your self. This is not the real world and never will be.
I'd reply sensibly, but I genuinely cannot figure out what you're trying to say. Do you mind trying to rephrase this for me?
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Sorry what I mean is many factors in the power dynamic people describe, fear of loss of job, income and social status, friendships. Between the casters and victims.
These factors are very semilar to reasons why the enablers didn't step in.
So i have a bit of difficulty with the logic that in one case you should take this factors in to account, but when you talk about enablers they should be totally disregarded.
Also another thing i have been thinking about is the claim that it is harder for women caster to get jobs. Has there been numbers that show a difference between male/female players and male/female casters ratio or other studies to support this claim
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On July 08 2020 11:36 Sapaio wrote:
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Also another thing i have been thinking about is the claim that it is harder for women caster to get jobs. Has there been numbers that show a difference between male/female players and male/female casters ratio or other studies to support this claim
i don't exactly think you need numbers to rationalize this one to a reasonable level.
the final result is that the caster gets the job over another individual because of their merits. i don't think that has ever really changed in esports. if the level of skill is similar, then maybe gender comes into the equation.
but we consider how many girls actually play the games that they will commentate,
then at a good level so that they are confident and knowledgeable.
the ratio of men to women in the first place has got to be 10:1 in DotA 2. even it would be 5:1, 2:1, the odds would be lowered.
at some point (huge grain of salt here) Kips mentions that it's 5% of all dota players, not considering the pro ranks.
so rather than it being about sexism, it's just about the numbers, however small they are.
there are just not enough who go through the motions to become extremely good and then to get noticed and hired.
just for EN talent from 2014 to now, there have been about ~30 active commentators/analysts who were male, compared to maybe ~4 total female ones. this is all for major events.
frankly speaking, i'm surprised we've even had any.
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On July 08 2020 11:36 Sapaio wrote:
Sorry what I mean is many factors in the power dynamic people describe, fear of loss of job, income and social status, friendships. Between the casters and victims.
These factors are very semilar to reasons why the enablers didn't step in.
So i have a bit of difficulty with the logic that in one case you should take this factors in to account, but when you talk about enablers they should be totally disregarded.
Also another thing i have been thinking about is the claim that it is harder for women caster to get jobs. Has there been numbers that show a difference between male/female players and male/female casters ratio or other studies to support this claim
Ah, gotcha. I hear you.
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EPT
