EPTOn October 11 2016 13:08 HolyPepsi wrote:
still it is from EE's single point of perspective. to me it sounds like a girl bitching what an asshole her ex-boy friend is.....
the facts maybe truth but the interpretation has too much tonal coloration.
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On October 11 2016 12:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:
You can be a great captain and a lazy, irresponsible bum. It's just a question of how quickly the latter catches up to the former. Besides, I doubt Puppey was that bad throughout his entire Dota 2 career. He might've gotten complacent due to his legacy and thought he could coast based on pure experience; Secret certainly didn't seem well-organized or attuned to the meta during their implosions. EE"s claims about Puppey's condescension and arrogance are easy to believe. Rumors about his bad behavior stretch all the way to Dota 1.
Eh, Sanford Kelly is far from an upstanding citizen.
It's funny you claim "Puppey is a shitty person" is where EE failed. If anything, there's a plethora of evidence suggesting it that existed long before EE's blog. His reputation as an upstanding, aspirational Dota god is the real mystery. The mystique of old Na'Vi must've been really strong to rub off on him like that.
On October 11 2016 11:30 TomatoBisque wrote:
I'm aware of what s4 said, and that's my point: can you honestly read EE's blogpost and think "Yeah, s4 thought the person being described here was a great captain." Someone who doesn't practice, treats his team like shit? Can you honestly tell me that every player Puppey has played with thought to themselves "Yeah this is legit 10/10"? Reminder: rtz called Puppey one of the best players he ever played with post-TI5 and said he would absolutely make a team with him again
On October 11 2016 00:35 OuchyDathurts wrote:
S4 said he was a great captain but a terrible person on his ask.fm. There's screenshots of 1437 with his nose so far up puppey's ass its incredible during the Kuro split. 1437 was Puppey's lapdog so its no surprise he'd be there for round two. Who knows about Artour, maybe he hated being in PPD's team so much he didn't care that he was going back to abusive boyfriend Puppey? Its all speculation we might not ever know why he'd go back to that well.
S4 said he was a great captain but a terrible person on his ask.fm. There's screenshots of 1437 with his nose so far up puppey's ass its incredible during the Kuro split. 1437 was Puppey's lapdog so its no surprise he'd be there for round two. Who knows about Artour, maybe he hated being in PPD's team so much he didn't care that he was going back to abusive boyfriend Puppey? Its all speculation we might not ever know why he'd go back to that well.
I'm aware of what s4 said, and that's my point: can you honestly read EE's blogpost and think "Yeah, s4 thought the person being described here was a great captain." Someone who doesn't practice, treats his team like shit? Can you honestly tell me that every player Puppey has played with thought to themselves "Yeah this is legit 10/10"? Reminder: rtz called Puppey one of the best players he ever played with post-TI5 and said he would absolutely make a team with him again
You can be a great captain and a lazy, irresponsible bum. It's just a question of how quickly the latter catches up to the former. Besides, I doubt Puppey was that bad throughout his entire Dota 2 career. He might've gotten complacent due to his legacy and thought he could coast based on pure experience; Secret certainly didn't seem well-organized or attuned to the meta during their implosions. EE"s claims about Puppey's condescension and arrogance are easy to believe. Rumors about his bad behavior stretch all the way to Dota 1.
On October 11 2016 12:12 Dysisa wrote:
As funny as I do find the video to be, I fully agree that people are making a bigger deal out of the monitor smashing video than it is. Everyone snaps sooner or later, because of something or another. For comparison, over in the Street Fighter community we have a guy named Sanford Kelly. He has a reputation for getting a little angry at times, but he's not some kinda horrible person, far from it.
The video is definitely not a good sign, but it's also not some sort of undeniable proof of that he is a monster.
As funny as I do find the video to be, I fully agree that people are making a bigger deal out of the monitor smashing video than it is. Everyone snaps sooner or later, because of something or another. For comparison, over in the Street Fighter community we have a guy named Sanford Kelly. He has a reputation for getting a little angry at times, but he's not some kinda horrible person, far from it.
The video is definitely not a good sign, but it's also not some sort of undeniable proof of that he is a monster.
Eh, Sanford Kelly is far from an upstanding citizen.
On October 11 2016 11:41 HolyPepsi wrote:
of course i did, your boss maybe an asshole, a nerd. it is your choice to listen to him, get along with him or not, they win shanghai major with puppey "bossing" them around didn't they? give your teammate some credit.. And all this is from EE's perspective. Tell me If all this is so true why rtz returns to puppey?
never take a single sided story as truth.
On October 11 2016 11:35 Oktyabr wrote:
Did you even read half the blog? You seem to have conveniently skimmed through the part where Puppey fails to show up for practice, uphold his end of streaming just the bare minimum, or even clocking his share of pubs. Or all the other allegations that Envy made about Puppey threatening to fight and w33ha being bullied. I like how you avoid addressing any of Envy's claims and banter about his lack of tournament wins prior to secret and call it fair judgment.
On October 11 2016 11:22 HolyPepsi wrote:
I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
----------------------------------
put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things.
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
----------------------------------
put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things.
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
Did you even read half the blog? You seem to have conveniently skimmed through the part where Puppey fails to show up for practice, uphold his end of streaming just the bare minimum, or even clocking his share of pubs. Or all the other allegations that Envy made about Puppey threatening to fight and w33ha being bullied. I like how you avoid addressing any of Envy's claims and banter about his lack of tournament wins prior to secret and call it fair judgment.
of course i did, your boss maybe an asshole, a nerd. it is your choice to listen to him, get along with him or not, they win shanghai major with puppey "bossing" them around didn't they? give your teammate some credit.. And all this is from EE's perspective. Tell me If all this is so true why rtz returns to puppey?
never take a single sided story as truth.
It's funny you claim "Puppey is a shitty person" is where EE failed. If anything, there's a plethora of evidence suggesting it that existed long before EE's blog. His reputation as an upstanding, aspirational Dota god is the real mystery. The mystique of old Na'Vi must've been really strong to rub off on him like that.
still it is from EE's single point of perspective. to me it sounds like a girl bitching what an asshole her ex-boy friend is.....
the facts maybe truth but the interpretation has too much tonal coloration.
It is crazy that some people are still saying that there is no evidence and ppy has done nothing wrong.
Everyone is a fanboy of someone, but at some point people need to realize that their hero has done bad stuff and stop being like its not that big of a deal.
EE's post is full of evidence and its not the first time something like this happend.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pxmuDFa.jpg)
