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Personal attack = Ban.
Please behave |
So they accept joining a team without contracts and they wonder why all of this happened? In the future don't join a team without some type of written agreement.
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I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
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put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things. he shits on every single of his ex teammates include bone7, singsing, pieliedie, aui, notail, fata, misery, w33, he has no appreciation of his only winning besides MLG columbus that imo more owe to puppey.
remember this is what EE said right after winning shanghai major
"Despite what some retards think, players are kicked for a reason. I do not owe anyone an explanation except Misery/W33. I rather say nothing about former teammates I respect, than mention what we think are their flaws (the reasons for the change).
I will never reveal to the public why misery or w33 were kicked unless they start spewing too much bullshit which they won't."
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
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On October 11 2016 00:35 OuchyDathurts wrote:
S4 said he was a great captain but a terrible person on his ask.fm. There's screenshots of 1437 with his nose so far up puppey's ass its incredible during the Kuro split. 1437 was Puppey's lapdog so its no surprise he'd be there for round two. Who knows about Artour, maybe he hated being in PPD's team so much he didn't care that he was going back to abusive boyfriend Puppey? Its all speculation we might not ever know why he'd go back to that well.
I'm aware of what s4 said, and that's my point: can you honestly read EE's blogpost and think "Yeah, s4 thought the person being described here was a great captain." Someone who doesn't practice, treats his team like shit? Can you honestly tell me that every player Puppey has played with thought to themselves "Yeah this is legit 10/10"? Reminder: rtz called Puppey one of the best players he ever played with post-TI5 and said he would absolutely make a team with him again
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On October 11 2016 11:22 HolyPepsi wrote:
I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
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put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things.
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
Did you even read half the blog? You seem to have conveniently skimmed through the part where Puppey fails to show up for practice, uphold his end of streaming just the bare minimum, or even clocking his share of pubs. Or all the other allegations that Envy made about Puppey threatening to fight and w33ha being bullied. I like how you avoid addressing any of Envy's claims and banter about his lack of tournament wins prior to secret and call it fair judgment.
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On October 11 2016 11:35 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 11:22 HolyPepsi wrote:
I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
----------------------------------
put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things.
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
Did you even read half the blog? You seem to have conveniently skimmed through the part where Puppey fails to show up for practice, uphold his end of streaming just the bare minimum, or even clocking his share of pubs. Or all the other allegations that Envy made about Puppey threatening to fight and w33ha being bullied. I like how you avoid addressing any of Envy's claims and banter about his lack of tournament wins prior to secret and call it fair judgment.
of course i did, your boss maybe an asshole, a nerd. it is your choice to listen to him, get along with him or not, they win shanghai major with puppey "bossing" them around didn't they? give your teammate some credit.. And all this is from EE's perspective. Tell me If all this is so true why rtz returns to puppey?
never take a single sided story as truth.
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As funny as I do find the video to be, I fully agree that people are making a bigger deal out of the monitor smashing video than it is. Everyone snaps sooner or later, because of something or another. For comparison, over in the Street Fighter community we have a guy named Sanford Kelly. He has a reputation for getting a little angry at times, but he's not some kinda horrible person, far from it.
The video is definitely not a good sign, but it's also not some sort of undeniable proof of that he is a monster.
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best thing about the sanford kelly video is the smile and thumbs up rico suave throws up at the end
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The video is nothing. Any person who hasn't raged before cannot call himself a true gamer XD
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United States15275 Posts
On October 11 2016 11:30 TomatoBisque wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 00:35 OuchyDathurts wrote:
S4 said he was a great captain but a terrible person on his ask.fm. There's screenshots of 1437 with his nose so far up puppey's ass its incredible during the Kuro split. 1437 was Puppey's lapdog so its no surprise he'd be there for round two. Who knows about Artour, maybe he hated being in PPD's team so much he didn't care that he was going back to abusive boyfriend Puppey? Its all speculation we might not ever know why he'd go back to that well. I'm aware of what s4 said, and that's my point: can you honestly read EE's blogpost and think "Yeah, s4 thought the person being described here was a great captain." Someone who doesn't practice, treats his team like shit? Can you honestly tell me that every player Puppey has played with thought to themselves "Yeah this is legit 10/10"? Reminder: rtz called Puppey one of the best players he ever played with post-TI5 and said he would absolutely make a team with him again
You can be a great captain and a lazy, irresponsible bum. It's just a question of how quickly the latter catches up to the former. Besides, I doubt Puppey was that bad throughout his entire Dota 2 career. He might've gotten complacent due to his legacy and thought he could coast based on pure experience; Secret certainly didn't seem well-organized or attuned to the meta during their implosions. EE"s claims about Puppey's condescension and arrogance are easy to believe. Rumors about his bad behavior stretch all the way to Dota 1.
On October 11 2016 12:12 Dysisa wrote:As funny as I do find the video to be, I fully agree that people are making a bigger deal out of the monitor smashing video than it is. Everyone snaps sooner or later, because of something or another. For comparison, over in the Street Fighter community we have a guy named Sanford Kelly. He has a reputation for getting a little angry at times, but he's not some kinda horrible person, far from it. The video is definitely not a good sign, but it's also not some sort of undeniable proof of that he is a monster.
Eh, Sanford Kelly is far from an upstanding citizen.
On October 11 2016 11:41 HolyPepsi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 11:35 Oktyabr wrote:On October 11 2016 11:22 HolyPepsi wrote:
I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
----------------------------------
put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things.
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
Did you even read half the blog? You seem to have conveniently skimmed through the part where Puppey fails to show up for practice, uphold his end of streaming just the bare minimum, or even clocking his share of pubs. Or all the other allegations that Envy made about Puppey threatening to fight and w33ha being bullied. I like how you avoid addressing any of Envy's claims and banter about his lack of tournament wins prior to secret and call it fair judgment. of course i did, your boss maybe an asshole, a nerd. it is your choice to listen to him, get along with him or not, they win shanghai major with puppey "bossing" them around didn't they? give your teammate some credit.. And all this is from EE's perspective. Tell me If all this is so true why rtz returns to puppey? never take a single sided story as truth.
It's funny you claim "Puppey is a shitty person" is where EE failed. If anything, there's a plethora of evidence suggesting it that existed long before EE's blog. His reputation as an upstanding, aspirational Dota god is the real mystery. The mystique of old Na'Vi must've been really strong to rub off on him like that.
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not sure how much of a good idea this was. Mature thing would have been to get lawyers etc involved and doing it privately - this is a circus at this point.
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Man if I was EE woulda just taken the 500k USD solo contract with panda.tv.
Fucking CHA-CHINGGG $$$$$
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On October 11 2016 12:42 yookstah wrote:
not sure how much of a good idea this was. Mature thing would have been to get lawyers etc involved and doing it privately - this is a circus at this point.
You can't ask for maturity from boys playing video games for a living 
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MVP died for this 
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On October 11 2016 12:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 11:30 TomatoBisque wrote:On October 11 2016 00:35 OuchyDathurts wrote:
S4 said he was a great captain but a terrible person on his ask.fm. There's screenshots of 1437 with his nose so far up puppey's ass its incredible during the Kuro split. 1437 was Puppey's lapdog so its no surprise he'd be there for round two. Who knows about Artour, maybe he hated being in PPD's team so much he didn't care that he was going back to abusive boyfriend Puppey? Its all speculation we might not ever know why he'd go back to that well. I'm aware of what s4 said, and that's my point: can you honestly read EE's blogpost and think "Yeah, s4 thought the person being described here was a great captain." Someone who doesn't practice, treats his team like shit? Can you honestly tell me that every player Puppey has played with thought to themselves "Yeah this is legit 10/10"? Reminder: rtz called Puppey one of the best players he ever played with post-TI5 and said he would absolutely make a team with him again You can be a great captain and a lazy, irresponsible bum. It's just a question of how quickly the latter catches up to the former. Besides, I doubt Puppey was that bad throughout his entire Dota 2 career. He might've gotten complacent due to his legacy and thought he could coast based on pure experience; Secret certainly didn't seem well-organized or attuned to the meta during their implosions. EE"s claims about Puppey's condescension and arrogance are easy to believe. Rumors about his bad behavior stretch all the way to Dota 1. Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 12:12 Dysisa wrote:As funny as I do find the video to be, I fully agree that people are making a bigger deal out of the monitor smashing video than it is. Everyone snaps sooner or later, because of something or another. For comparison, over in the Street Fighter community we have a guy named Sanford Kelly. He has a reputation for getting a little angry at times, but he's not some kinda horrible person, far from it. The video is definitely not a good sign, but it's also not some sort of undeniable proof of that he is a monster. Eh, Sanford Kelly is far from an upstanding citizen. Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 11:41 HolyPepsi wrote:On October 11 2016 11:35 Oktyabr wrote:On October 11 2016 11:22 HolyPepsi wrote:
I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
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put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things.
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
Did you even read half the blog? You seem to have conveniently skimmed through the part where Puppey fails to show up for practice, uphold his end of streaming just the bare minimum, or even clocking his share of pubs. Or all the other allegations that Envy made about Puppey threatening to fight and w33ha being bullied. I like how you avoid addressing any of Envy's claims and banter about his lack of tournament wins prior to secret and call it fair judgment. of course i did, your boss maybe an asshole, a nerd. it is your choice to listen to him, get along with him or not, they win shanghai major with puppey "bossing" them around didn't they? give your teammate some credit.. And all this is from EE's perspective. Tell me If all this is so true why rtz returns to puppey? never take a single sided story as truth. It's funny you claim "Puppey is a shitty person" is where EE failed. If anything, there's a plethora of evidence suggesting it that existed long before EE's blog. His reputation as an upstanding, aspirational Dota god is the real mystery. The mystique of old Na'Vi must've been really strong to rub off on him like that.
still it is from EE's single point of perspective. to me it sounds like a girl bitching what an asshole her ex-boy friend is.....
the facts maybe truth but the interpretation has too much tonal coloration.
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On October 11 2016 12:59 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 12:42 yookstah wrote:
not sure how much of a good idea this was. Mature thing would have been to get lawyers etc involved and doing it privately - this is a circus at this point. You can't ask for maturity from boys playing video games for a living
well he practically has aspergers so I'm not surprised he kinda just went all out like this
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On October 11 2016 13:08 HolyPepsi wrote:
still it is from EE's single point of perspective. to me it sounds like a girl bitching what an asshole her ex-boy friend is.....
the facts maybe truth but the interpretation has too much tonal coloration.
His perspective included some undeniable evidence and facts, like Puppey did scam his teammates about prize money (empty promise), or Puppey didn't do his obligation to stream 30H/month for Panda.TV, or how Secret hired a pornstar for TI.
I don't take too much about EE's opinion about Puppey's personality, even though all of us know that EE is an extremely honest guy. Despite all bad opinion about Puppey's personality, EE still said that he won't dismiss Puppey's skill. I think it's fair enough. All of us think highly about Puppey because of his skills and achievements. There were so many ex-teammates testimony about how bad Puppey's personality is, but EE's is the hardest and longest one (i'm not talking about d**k).
There's no way people will look on Puppey the same way as it did before. You can't defend this kind of shit by shifting the blame into EE's blog style, his blog is always like that.
If Secret resist Evany's accusation by saying that it was just an allegation, this time, it's no more allegation. It's full of evidence.
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United States15275 Posts
On October 11 2016 13:08 HolyPepsi wrote:
still it is from EE's single point of perspective. to me it sounds like a girl bitching what an asshole her ex-boy friend is.....
the facts maybe truth but the interpretation has too much tonal coloration.
You need to tone down on the mindless EE hating. He's socially awkward, that's it. You keep trying to make it sound like he's a patient in a mental institution.
It's extremely telling that none of Puppey's former teammates have come to his defense. In light of such huge accusations, you'd think they would speak up. When Universe, the chillest of chill players, is throwing shade on his stream, EE's claims should be given some credence. And it's not like EE was alone in that assessment.
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Puppey : "FUCK OFF, u fucking kid. End of story. Sit behind ur computer. And write a story. Like you love to do."
EE : "Challenge accepted"
Puppey's career : Ruined.
And it was Puppey who bitched first :D
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On October 11 2016 13:08 HolyPepsi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2016 12:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 11 2016 11:30 TomatoBisque wrote:On October 11 2016 00:35 OuchyDathurts wrote:
S4 said he was a great captain but a terrible person on his ask.fm. There's screenshots of 1437 with his nose so far up puppey's ass its incredible during the Kuro split. 1437 was Puppey's lapdog so its no surprise he'd be there for round two. Who knows about Artour, maybe he hated being in PPD's team so much he didn't care that he was going back to abusive boyfriend Puppey? Its all speculation we might not ever know why he'd go back to that well. I'm aware of what s4 said, and that's my point: can you honestly read EE's blogpost and think "Yeah, s4 thought the person being described here was a great captain." Someone who doesn't practice, treats his team like shit? Can you honestly tell me that every player Puppey has played with thought to themselves "Yeah this is legit 10/10"? Reminder: rtz called Puppey one of the best players he ever played with post-TI5 and said he would absolutely make a team with him again You can be a great captain and a lazy, irresponsible bum. It's just a question of how quickly the latter catches up to the former. Besides, I doubt Puppey was that bad throughout his entire Dota 2 career. He might've gotten complacent due to his legacy and thought he could coast based on pure experience; Secret certainly didn't seem well-organized or attuned to the meta during their implosions. EE"s claims about Puppey's condescension and arrogance are easy to believe. Rumors about his bad behavior stretch all the way to Dota 1. On October 11 2016 12:12 Dysisa wrote:As funny as I do find the video to be, I fully agree that people are making a bigger deal out of the monitor smashing video than it is. Everyone snaps sooner or later, because of something or another. For comparison, over in the Street Fighter community we have a guy named Sanford Kelly. He has a reputation for getting a little angry at times, but he's not some kinda horrible person, far from it. The video is definitely not a good sign, but it's also not some sort of undeniable proof of that he is a monster. Eh, Sanford Kelly is far from an upstanding citizen. On October 11 2016 11:41 HolyPepsi wrote:On October 11 2016 11:35 Oktyabr wrote:On October 11 2016 11:22 HolyPepsi wrote:
I would like to humbly express my 2 cents on this matter, based on the fact that I consider myself a matured person and have read countless people in the past.
Before anything, I woud not draw a equal mark between the fact of "TS does not pay players fair" to (not enough fact) "puppey is disgusting person". For the following reason and logic
1. Misery only brought the fact of the money issue with TS, he did not say a bad thing about puppey
2. EE's blog is very pervasive, trying to paint puppey as a "disgusting person" but there are not enough evidence to proove it. EE's blog can be divide into 2 parts:
A. TS shits on their player when it came to money: EE has brought enough evidence to this also misery has confirmed. But to me the evidence towards more to kemal, not puppey. The evidence may suggest many different senarios:
I: Puppey is part of this money stealing crime - no evidence say so
II: Puppey did not involved in any of this, EE and misery got their money back becasue puppey tried so hard to get money from kemal - which is equallyl ike senecario I, then EE owns puppey apology for this
III: Puppey knows many things kemal did, but cannot handle kemal and take in charge of the team (since all the money first go through kemal's pocket). This is the more likely senario to me, I have done business with all different people: people with good wills, con men, naive ppl etc. From my personal judgement on listening to puppey interview, opinion on different things, I think this is more likely the case - he takes partial responsible as a management role of TS which unable to pay players on time. We do not how if he tried or how hard he try to make things right or wrong. -- all this is my guess, no direct evidence suggested so. But these are 3 possible fair senarios.
not mentioning there is no mention of contract terms, seems everything is agreed orally based on good will. its a good lesson for players - again you should not point the gun directly to puppey.
B. Puppey is a shitty person this is the part EE failed horribily, and imo owe puppey a big apology, here is why.
Some facts seem to be directly related, but not.
for example: one fact that catches people's attention is how ee describes Kemal and Puppey using tournament's cut for call girls. This can be very misleading: there is no evidence suggesting the money is used for this purpose (EE's imagination). One should never reveal someone's personal life : not everyone is otaku, virgin like EE. People have a choice of their personal life, revealing stories like this without solid evidence (ex hosting a gangbang party or using tournament's cut to host a gangbang party is very different) is very disrespectful to others. I would like EE to reveal his porn search keywords, im sure the story can be equally appealling. People talk shits privately - do not bring it up to against each other.
Drinking: In Estonia or russia, you are crazy if you dont drink. Once again do not judge other's personal life or hobby based on your own.
Lazyness: When did EE last time win anything before joining puppey's team? MLG Columbus 2014. If a person has any bit of appreciation left in his humanity, he should be thankful (like misery did) to their teammates and specially captain for winning a Valve major and other tournaments. Puppey has been winning big tournaments since 2011, EE has not, there is a reason. Why do you think RTZ left his dad fear and rejoin team secrect if puppey and the organization is as shitty as EE described? (given rtz's big ego). Teams do fall off, specially when they just win something big. When the team has bad chemistry, it is everyone's fault. The record only suggests that EE make bad situation worse (like cloud9, he starts kicking or shitting on teammates randomly instead of finding constructive solution). If you blame TS's bad performance for puppey, then it is all puppey's credit for winning shanghai major.
Arrogant: People have personalities, arrogant is a common personality for leaders who sticks to their own ideas - the word can inteperrted in different ways, if you win - arrogant is a good thing. if you lose - ur arrogant. EE is also an arrogant person if im not mistaken. I do not see this as a negative quality.
Monitor smashing: this is the most ridiculous "facts" EE brought up. c'mon, chuan smashes monitor for winning, what's so for losing a game? I mean it's not nice to do it - but do not make a huge deal out of it - kuro and zai seem to be cool about it, and puppey did not try to hide his feeling. Also this video is in 2015, it has nothing to do with EE. Why is he even trying to bring this up? And puppey threatening EE for not releasing this video? I do not see a big deal out of this.
It shows puppey is not always cool as ice, more "russian". so what?
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put everythign aside, eveywhere EE goes he is the center gravity for drama - shit always happen around him. Does he attract shit? i don't think so - it is the way he see things.
My fair judgement would be TS is not so clean as an organization (like many western clubs, DC is an exception), puppey is still the same puppey.
Did you even read half the blog? You seem to have conveniently skimmed through the part where Puppey fails to show up for practice, uphold his end of streaming just the bare minimum, or even clocking his share of pubs. Or all the other allegations that Envy made about Puppey threatening to fight and w33ha being bullied. I like how you avoid addressing any of Envy's claims and banter about his lack of tournament wins prior to secret and call it fair judgment. of course i did, your boss maybe an asshole, a nerd. it is your choice to listen to him, get along with him or not, they win shanghai major with puppey "bossing" them around didn't they? give your teammate some credit.. And all this is from EE's perspective. Tell me If all this is so true why rtz returns to puppey? never take a single sided story as truth. It's funny you claim "Puppey is a shitty person" is where EE failed. If anything, there's a plethora of evidence suggesting it that existed long before EE's blog. His reputation as an upstanding, aspirational Dota god is the real mystery. The mystique of old Na'Vi must've been really strong to rub off on him like that. still it is from EE's single point of perspective. to me it sounds like a girl bitching what an asshole her ex-boy friend is..... the facts maybe truth but the interpretation has too much tonal coloration.
no its not, we dont only have EEs blog and then nothing else. secret had internal problems with all their iterations and the only constant factor in all of them is puppey. the puppey - kuroky friendship ended over team secret, there is the leaked conversation between ppy and 1437 that doesnt make him look all that that great either and the most important thing: no one defends ppy. w33ha basically agreed with everything that is said in the two blogs and misery, while focussing on the money, doesnt defend ppy in any way. also it seams like very few western players still want to play with him, i dont think it is a coincidence that the new team secret is a mostly sea team.
the most reasonable conclusion so far is, that puppey is an asshole. everything that happend in the last years points to that.
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EPT
