EPTThe Manila Major Invites - Page 4
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
I like the CS:GO system of inviting the Top X teams from the last Major as a reward for performance when it matters most, but I don't think we have to overdo it. I firmly believe Na'Vi and OG would have had a decent chance to qualify, LGD maybe not even that, and I don't think extending the invites that far down is necessary. At this point my opinion is that it's much better to give a chance to a wider array of teams who maybe didn't even have a chance to perform at the previous Major or other LANs to qualify. If a team is truly worthy of an invite at that time they will qualify more often than not. Really, that seems to me like a much better way to solve it and make sure the attending teams are solid than to invite even more teams because you're not sure how to fit in an even number of the teams you want to have who just barely meet the invite criteria while remaining somewhat fair and balanced. Like that's gonna work, especially when they release a giant patch right before the important part starts. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
alliance played 3 best of threes after shanghai og played 5 best of threes I'm not a fan of more invites even though most of them are ok but not 100% justified. | ||
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trollcenter
362 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
So, this just confirms what we should have known already: Win large LANs. That's the metric it'll all be judged by. If we take the picture order as a straight work down of their seeding, at least for the second two lines, it would appear that OG was going to be in, over Complexity. Which would give away that they really do weight winning a Major supremely highly. Taken on a the "how have you done on LAN this year?" and "How have you done on LAN since Shanghai" metrics, the invites are the right choices. Valve staking out the position that performance on International LAN is the key metric should, hopefully, encourage teams to take qualifying really seriously. | ||
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balticzephyr
1 Post
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icystorage
Jollibee19343 Posts
On April 27 2016 18:09 balticzephyr wrote: Why are there two major events in Manila, back to back? Some sort of Dota rivalry? One wasn't Valve sanctioned, it was ESL's. This is a Valve Major. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On the other hand if teams are invited based on what they do in several tournaments, there is clear incentive to perform in events outside of the majors. It is more likely that the teams who get to the major are ones who are not just flash in the pan teams. Though of course even with the current system there's generally a few spots that are open for teams that became hot just at the right moment, NaVi, VG and Wings in this case. Although each qualifier only has 1 spot, it's not like the teams in there didn't have their chances throughout the year. They constantly play in tournaments, and if they actually did better than some of the invited teams they would be in contention for those invites themselves. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
Invited teams hanging in by a thread also have a lot to prove. Honestly, thats like most of them since the roster changes and unpredictable results. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On April 27 2016 18:09 balticzephyr wrote: Why are there two major events in Manila, back to back? Some sort of Dota rivalry? Worked out really well to get organizational practice (it's in the same venue right?) so the Shanghai fiasco can be averted | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
Second, people talk about consistency of teams and the only team that could not be argued about is EG, in the span of a year EG ended: 2nd, 2nd, 5-6th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 5-8th, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd Secret ended: 7-8th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 5-6th, 7-8th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 9-12th, 5-6th, 7-8th, 1st, 5-8th, 5-6th Liquid ended: 4th, 1st, 1st, 5-6th, 3rd, 3-4th, 5-6th, 2nd, 2nd (they are still not a year old) You could shorten the span a bit and it gets even worse for Secret and Liquid. People are too focused on being fans and giving different weightings to international tournaments where in ESL they play against almost the same teams as in a Valve Major. Yes you could say players work harder for a Valve Major but I am not so sure, players wanna win everything usually. To look down on everyone else you have to be on top, and only EG can claim that for the longest time. | ||
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
On April 27 2016 18:37 Racket wrote: To begin with, having a Major with a different patch, and issuing invites based on the previous patch is the most dumb move to do. Second, people talk about consistency of teams and the only team that could not be argued about is EG, in the span of a year EG ended: 2nd, 2nd, 5-6th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 5-8th, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd Secret ended: 7-8th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 5-6th, 7-8th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 9-12th, 5-6th, 7-8th, 1st, 5-8th, 5-6th Liquid ended: 4th, 1st, 1st, 5-6th, 3rd, 3-4th, 5-6th, 2nd, 2nd (they are still not a year old) You could shorten the span a bit and it gets even worse for Secret and Liquid. People are too focused on being fans and giving different weightings to international tournaments where in ESL they play against almost the same teams as in a Valve Major. Yes you could say players work harder for a Valve Major but I am not so sure, players wanna win everything usually. To look down on everyone else you have to be on top, and only EG can claim that for the longest time. Actually the current roster of EG has won nothing. You think inviting teams because of performance on the previous patch is dumb but your ok with them inviting a completely different EG team than the one(s) that won those tournaments? Ok fanboi..... | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On April 27 2016 18:37 Racket wrote: To begin with, having a Major with a different patch, and issuing invites based on the previous patch is the most dumb move to do. Second, people talk about consistency of teams and the only team that could not be argued about is EG, in the span of a year EG ended: 2nd, 2nd, 5-6th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 5-8th, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd Secret ended: 7-8th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 5-6th, 7-8th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 9-12th, 5-6th, 7-8th, 1st, 5-8th, 5-6th Liquid ended: 4th, 1st, 1st, 5-6th, 3rd, 3-4th, 5-6th, 2nd, 2nd (they are still not a year old) You could shorten the span a bit and it gets even worse for Secret and Liquid. People are too focused on being fans and giving different weightings to international tournaments where in ESL they play against almost the same teams as in a Valve Major. Yes you could say players work harder for a Valve Major but I am not so sure, players wanna win everything usually. To look down on everyone else you have to be on top, and only EG can claim that for the longest time. Dude invites for a major are not based on the Performance over a years. It's a Mix of results from the last major, and other tournaments since then. In the case of liquid, secret or eg, the major placement was already good enough to be invited. Of course consistency should also play a role, but not what teams did a year ago. Teams and patches change all the time, so that should not matter. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On April 27 2016 18:46 sweatbomb wrote: Actually the current roster of EG has won nothing. You think inviting teams because of performance on the previous patch is dumb but your ok with them inviting a completely different EG team that the one(s) that won those tournaments? Ok faboi..... No, I am against invites, I want 0 invites. I am just pointing out that people is biased af but can't accept it. Tend to call out teams because to them only numbers matter but they are not able to do the numbers of their own team. Look at my previous post you one post reader. On April 27 2016 17:26 Racket wrote: It is funny because the best two teams made changed 2 players 2 days before the lock and got the invite anyway, so what is left for the weaker? Not a single commendable example. Given that the lock "promotes" stability, it is meant to make teams refrain from changing players for the longest time. They should lock the rosters and then wait, if they are going to directly invite teams, until one month before the Major to release invites. What is the point of inviting teams that even tho they are composed of the best players they still didn't prove themselves. Edit: a month seems like too much, two weeks maybe. But given how close the quals are it makes no sense. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On April 27 2016 18:49 hunter_x wrote: Dude invites for a major are not based on the Performance over a years. It's a Mix of results from the last major, and other tournaments since then. In the case of liquid, secret or eg, the major placement was already good enough to be invited. Of course consistency should also play a role, but not what teams did a year ago. Teams and patches change all the time, so that should not matter. That is what you want believe, try to justify OG invite then, or will you say Valve is biased towards OG? I took a year as example to show how inconsistent teams are, even the best teams. If you take 4 months you can find from 1st 1st 1st 2nd to 5th 8th 2nd 3rd.... Edit: Inconsistent doesn't have to mean teams are bad but instead other teams are almost as good to deserve a chance, so imho Quals for everyone. | ||
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BoesFX
1446 Posts
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On April 27 2016 18:33 bluzi wrote: Main issue for me is that its really hard for a new team to break through , not only Valve invites but other tourny invite the same teams all the time which of course mean they are going to get "points" , so when you have a big lan and they invite the top teams , the top teams are going to get the "points" and stay "top" teams , small teams really need to get lucky to even attend a lan these days not to mention perform in it. Liquid, OG, MVP, Wings, VGR, Fnatic, coL, Alliance and NaVi. By my count 9 out of 12 invited teams to Manila are teams who were not getting any sort of invites after TI5. Instead they've performed well in online qualifiers, they've gone to LAN and eventually performed well enough to get invites in the future. Meanwhile LGD dropped their invite status for Shanghai, VP has lost their invite status, so have CDEC, original VG and EHOME. VGR and Wings even got invites to Manila despite either being a completely new team or having fairly minimal international results pre Shanghai by qualifying to an event and winning it. I don't really see how it is so difficult to break through? You obviously have to show you are better than some of the former invited teams, but it's not like there is a lack of opportunity. | ||
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