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Recently the Overseer was given Transfusion (Instantly restores 200 hitpoints to target unit or structure). I believe that this ability is much better suited for the Protoss for the following reasons:
-Fits with Protoss lore
-Protoss units feel more worth saving, it is funner to heal Protoss than Zerg.
-Protoss have more units you would want to use heal on.
-Transfusion is attention intensive, costly, and heals allot. All of these work well with high value units.
-Shields make it more likely that you will have a unit with damaged HP. T and Z damaged units usually die very soon after being damaged.
-Blink, force field, Immortal Shields, and Phase Shift also increase unit longevity. This increases the usefulness of healing.
-Mothership and Dark Pylon are obvious candidates. Both play a unit support role.
-Protoss lack any healing. This detracts from the enjoyment of playing Protoss dramatically. The argument that no healing makes Protoss unique and special is a weak one at best.
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On May 07 2009 07:56 Archerofaiur wrote:
-Protoss lack any healing. This detracts from the enjoyment of playing Protoss dramatically. The argument that no healing makes Protoss unique and special is a weak one at best.
dont protoss units heal half their hp on their own?
ie. shields
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Zerg, at least in broodwar, though to a lesser extent it seems in SC2, has many cheap units that die easily...however, they also have, in the late game, stronger units that do not, and are very costly. in BW they have the ultralisk, lurker, guardian, etc.
Toss has all expensive units, and half of their HP can regenerate anyway. It's not that a lack of healing makes toss "unique" and "special", but prevents them from being too overpowered. Individually, they have the strongest units in the game as it is.
Facing off against a toss with good macro AND the ability to heal damaged units would make it near damn impossible for zerg and terran to truly dent their army. Lost units free up supply that will come out of the gateway in the next production round. Damaged units get healed up, and Z/T is back right where they started.
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I knew someone would take the bait 
On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Zerg, at least in broodwar, though to a lesser extent it seems in SC2, has many cheap units that die easily...however, they also have, in the late game, stronger units that do not, and are very costly. in BW they have the ultralisk, lurker, guardian, etc.
Lurker has 125 hitpoints so if you use transfusion on even that unit your getting gypped.
On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Toss has all expensive units, and half of their HP can regenerate anyway.
No half of their HP cannot regenerate. Their shields can regenerate.
On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
It's not that a lack of healing makes toss "unique" and "special", but prevents them from being too overpowered.
No evidence provided.
On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Facing off against a toss with good macro AND the ability to heal damaged units would make it near damn impossible for zerg and terran to truly dent their army.
No evidence provided. (btw feel free to call me out for the same thing)
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Damn, all your reasons are terrible and has nothing to do with nothing.
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United States42794 Posts
I don't like it. Protoss are spiritual things, unconcerned with the physical side of it all. That and they're pretty hardcore. If you asked a zealot if he wanted a bit of looking after and some time off he'd rip you a new hole.
Zerg regen because they're organic, engineered killing machines which would be 'designed' to regen.
Terran repair because they're conscious and aware of how fragile they are in comparison to the rest of the universe.
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Sweden33719 Posts
I think shield regen is waaaaaaay more "fluffy" for toss.
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Healing Protoss is fucking stupid.
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On May 07 2009 08:10 Archerofaiur wrote:I knew someone would take the bait Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Zerg, at least in broodwar, though to a lesser extent it seems in SC2, has many cheap units that die easily...however, they also have, in the late game, stronger units that do not, and are very costly. in BW they have the ultralisk, lurker, guardian, etc. Lurker has 125 hitpoints so if you use transfusion on even that unit your getting gypped. Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Toss has all expensive units, and half of their HP can regenerate anyway. No half of their HP cannot regenerate. Their shields can regenerate. Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
It's not that a lack of healing makes toss "unique" and "special", but prevents them from being too overpowered. No evidence provided. Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Facing off against a toss with good macro AND the ability to heal damaged units would make it near damn impossible for zerg and terran to truly dent their army. No evidence provided. (btw feel free to call me out for the same thing)
ok imagine thsi scenario : protoss engages a terran push his Heallots(TM) are now able tos hit all over your tanks without running out of hp. Who needs dragoons when your units already heal!
Seriously it would be im fucking possible to beat that.
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On May 07 2009 08:10 Archerofaiur wrote:I knew someone would take the bait Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Zerg, at least in broodwar, though to a lesser extent it seems in SC2, has many cheap units that die easily...however, they also have, in the late game, stronger units that do not, and are very costly. in BW they have the ultralisk, lurker, guardian, etc. Lurker has 125 hitpoints so if you use transfusion on even that unit your getting gypped. Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Toss has all expensive units, and half of their HP can regenerate anyway. No half of their HP cannot regenerate. Their shields can regenerate. Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
It's not that a lack of healing makes toss "unique" and "special", but prevents them from being too overpowered. No evidence provided. Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 08:01 PH wrote:
Facing off against a toss with good macro AND the ability to heal damaged units would make it near damn impossible for zerg and terran to truly dent their army. No evidence provided. (btw feel free to call me out for the same thing)
Early game it seems to make sense to use transfusion on sunks, mid game on lurkers/queens, late game on ultras/queens. You might be gyped of some hp on a lurker, but an extra volley or two of lurker spines sometimes make a huge difference. Lorewise it makes much more sense for zerg to have healing abilities since they're biological creatures that could easily get a transfusion of energy from an overseer. Protoss on the other hand, should only be able to heal spiritual energy, or shield.
So a few things you tried to refute, hp or shield, it's still part of the unit's life. So yes technically the shield isn't the same as hp, but essentially it acts the same way. A few small technical details like damage modifiers and armor makes it behave differently mechanically, but the point is it's still part of the unit's health.
As for evidence of overpowered toss units that heal, try playing a 2v2 fight with medics healing zealots vs most things. They take out an abnormally large amount of units when compared to normal unhealed zealots.
The last quote, look at an archon that has the benefit of a shield battery, or even 4-5 archons in a late game pvz. They dominate so much because their splash and massive amount of damage, Since they have so much shield they usually don't die and after the battle is over they heal up again. It's REALLY difficult to kill off that toss ball of archons mixed with some zeal/goon acting as shields.
On a side note, you can't really make an argument demanding evidence when sc2 isn't even out yet. I mean, I tried to provide the best analogies from broodwar, but asking for gameplay evidence of a game that hasn't even been released yet is just being obnoxious.
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you could put "no evidence provided" behind pretty much all of your reasons too...
On May 07 2009 07:56 Archerofaiur wrote:
-Protoss units feel more worth saving, it is funner to heal Protoss than Zerg.
i must have missed the "which races' units are funner to heal" poll on TL
On May 07 2009 07:56 Archerofaiur wrote:
-Shields make it more likely that you will have a unit with damaged HP. T and Z damaged units usually die very soon after being damaged.
shields actually make it less likely that you'll have a unit with damaged HP. the average protoss unit has around 30-40% shields and the rest is hp. when a protoss engages in a battle, its shield will act like a buffer, allowing it to take a few hits before its hp is even touched. so when a protoss unit survives a battle, only around 60% of the time will their hp actually be touched. whereas terran and zerg will have their hp damaged 100% of the time after being hit...
(side note: these numbers i'm just randomly spewing out are in no way accurate, they're just there for the sake of my laziness)
On May 07 2009 07:56 Archerofaiur wrote:
The argument that no healing makes Protoss unique and special is a weak one at best.
honestly, who have you heard say that?
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On May 07 2009 08:17 Kwark wrote:
I don't like it. Protoss are spiritual things, unconcerned with the physical side of it all. That and they're pretty hardcore. If you asked a zealot if he wanted a bit of looking after and some time off he'd rip you a new hole.
Zerg regen because they're organic, engineered killing machines which would be 'designed' to regen.
Terran repair because they're conscious and aware of how fragile they are in comparison to the rest of the universe.
I agree with Kwark, the protoss is the only race that is willing to give up their lives for Auir unlike the other race's that doesn't care about their planet that is why they don't want to heal the physical side.
And of course, if Zealots can be healed then there would be no lore for immortals production.
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You're taking the lame race that the rest of us don't like and making it lamer.
lol j/k
but why? shield batteries..... Well, i don't know if they're in SC2.
but from what i've seen, shields charge ridiculously fast, you know. This is too much... i am always depressed when i send my last living zergling to attack the zealot with 20 hp left, and it takes more than 4 hits, and my poor zergling... *sniff*
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Healing with the new buffed up shield regen rate will be rediculous. I mean, after not getting hit for a little while (X seconds), their shields will regen to full in a matter of a few seconds (longer for things like archons obviously). This is by far one of the most useful lifesavers for the protoss in SC2 (not getting into the discussion of whether they need it or not). Giving them more healers just makes it redundant and possibly overpowered.
You also mentioned a bunch of other ways which the protoss can lengthen longevity. What makes you think they need even MORE ways?
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Dominican Republic463 Posts
On May 07 2009 08:11 .risingdragoon wrote:
Damn, all your reasons are terrible and has nothing to do with nothing.
This.
Seems like you're arguing for the sake of it.
And half of their HP does regen, I dont care if its shields, you have to hit it just like if it was HP.
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LOL I seem to have riled some feathers.
On May 07 2009 08:19 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I think shield regen is waaaaaaay more "fluffy" for toss.
Whats fluffy about a mothership with 7 hitpoints left?
On May 07 2009 08:17 Kwark wrote:
I don't like it. Protoss are spiritual things, unconcerned with the physical side of it all. That and they're pretty hardcore. If you asked a zealot if he wanted a bit of looking after and some time off he'd rip you a new hole.
Protoss are about preservation. Their race is dying out. They sacrifice a warriors life only when nessesary.Not needlessly. They value their warriors and outfit them with the most sophisticated of weaponry. They bestow on them teleportation devices to pull them out of danger at the last possible moment.
On May 07 2009 08:27 arb wrote:
ok imagine thsi scenario : protoss engages a terran push his Heallots(TM) are now able tos hit all over your tanks without running out of hp. Who needs dragoons when your units already heal!
You have a 50 energy spell with a cooldown. You will only be able to do one Heallot (cute btw) and that Heallot isnts going to take out the tank line.
On May 07 2009 08:47 IrrasO wrote:
you could put "no evidence provided" behind pretty much all of your reasons too...
Thats why I said feel free to call me out on it. I was feeling lazy when I made the post but will be happy to give you evidence for any of the points if you want it.
On May 07 2009 08:47 IrrasO wrote:
shields actually make it less likely that you'll have a unit with damaged HP. the average protoss unit has around 30-40% shields and the rest is hp. when a protoss engages in a battle, its shield will act like a buffer, allowing it to take a few hits before its hp is even touched. so when a protoss unit survives a battle, only around 60% of the time will their hp actually be touched. whereas terran and zerg will have their hp damaged 100% of the time after being hit...
Good point. My statement should have been that High health (hp+shields) make it more likely for units to last the battle and thus healable.
On May 07 2009 08:47 IrrasO wrote:
honestly, who have you heard say that?
Karune
http://sc2pod.com/trackers/blue/?id=10
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Sweden33719 Posts
-Fits with Protoss lore
Eh, it does and it doesn't. SC 1 toss had ways to heal shield but certainly no way to heal HPs. I don't really know that it fits extremely well with toss lore.
-Protoss units feel more worth saving, it is funner to heal Protoss than Zerg.
Again, shield battery type things do the same thing while remaining unique.
-Protoss have more units you would want to use heal on.
Most toss units have half their total HPs made up from shields.. So I don't think the difference is that big! A 125 hp lurker or a 100 hp zealot? A 25 hp archon or a 600 hp ultra?
Shield battery seems preferable to me.
-Transfusion is attention intensive, costly, and heals allot. All of these work well with high value units.
Like ultralisks.. The only two toss units with a lot of HP are the Carrier and the Colossus - but both are mechanical. It does not make sense for a spell that heals biological units to heal mechanical units as well.. Shield batteries solve this.
-Shields make it more likely that you will have a unit with damaged HP. T and Z damaged units usually die very soon after being damaged.
-Blink, force field, Immortal Shields, and Phase Shift also increase unit longevity. This increases the usefulness of healing.
-Mothership and Dark Pylon are obvious candidates. Both play a unit support role.
Fair points. However, the mothership (if not so much the dark pylon, as it's not going to be in combat thaaaaat often) would work much the same for shields (and could work on buildings, to augment its defensive role).
-Protoss lack any healing. This detracts from the enjoyment of playing Protoss dramatically. The argument that no healing makes Protoss unique and special is a weak one at best.
I don't think it detracts from the enjoyment of playing protoss at all.
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... I find this thread utterly pointless, and I find that protoss don't NEED healing. They didn't in SC:BW, you have Some Regen, and each protoss unit is quite strong, considering the Zealot is greater than 1 marine or 2 zerglings.
While this isn't the case in SC:2, imagine the poor and sad hopeless Terran, lost to the zealot + [healer] rush.
It would throw the game comepletely off-balance. You're just complaining about a race that already has fair power.
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On May 07 2009 09:42 JinHyunKim wrote:
... I find this thread utterly pointless, and I find that protoss don't NEED healing. They didn't in SC:BW, you have Some Regen, and each protoss unit is quite strong, considering the Zealot is greater than 1 marine or 2 zerglings.
While this isn't the case in SC:2, imagine the poor and sad hopeless Terran, lost to the zealot + [healer] rush.
It would throw the game comepletely off-balance. You're just complaining about a race that already has fair power.
I concur.
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This is getting really ridiculous... it's becoming really hard to follow up important news in the TL sc2 forum because of dumb suggestion threads like this.
There is one -single- consolidated suggestion thread that was created exactly to alleviate this issue. Please keep the stupidity there and keep TL clean:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=62214
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