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On October 29 2018 00:58 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Now, had someone like Corbyn said “Jews are not people and deserve beatings for their actions against Palestinians,” I can see your point. Or, like if Maxine Waters says, “And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them“ and a bunch of Dems creates crowds and start harassing Republican political appointtees, I acknowledge you have a point in that instance. She literally called for it. I like the way you keep going back to Maxine Waters, a woman who has only ever called for activism and protest in the face of what the Republicans are doing. No matter how much you want it to be true, she has never once called for violence.
Then I take it you don’t condemn her words, but want me to condemn Trump’s. I love it.
Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Any rube can identify Trump’s enemies... they mark themselves as enemies making up stories and saying he’s a threat to Democracy itself. Fuck, you don’t even need Trump saying one word; they’ll jump up on a podium and jeer. Choice of targets is one of the more stupid ways to point to Trump. If tomorrow some friend of yours tried to assassinate Trump, I wouldn’t bumble on about how Liquid’Drone selected him out particularly for encouraging violence, thus justifying putting an end to Trump’s encouragement of violence. Uhm, of course you wouldn't, because calling someone out for the way they encourage violence is not the same as being the person encouraging violence. Was this supposed to make some sort of point? Trump has been using his loudest microphone to encourage violence against people they disagree with since he was campaigning. "I'll pay for your legal fees." There is no equivalency here.
Yes, and in the wake of protests that cancelled rallies and protestors breaking through security, maybe you’d also want to pay the legal fees for someone who fights back. But quoting out of context is kinda your game, and plays to people that already agree to you, so carry on with the games.
On October 29 2018 01:06 NewSunshine wrote:
I hadn't even seen the story about the ricin before. If true, it's unacceptable. Even so, that same article describes Obama receiving ricin on more than one occasion, so is this really a point that Democrats have somehow made things worse under Trump?
It gets so little media attention when it contradicts your narrative that I’m not even surprised you missed it. You have to mail ricin to Democratic politicians or media figures to even have it register these days.
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Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media.
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On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media.
The Flash couldn't get there quicker.
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On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media.
Go to the main thread if you want to post utter garbage like this.
On October 29 2018 02:24 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media. The Flash couldn't get there quicker.
You, too.
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The majority of terrorism in the US comes from the far-right. It is kind of transparent to compare Mitch McConnel being yelled at in a restaurant with the parade of murders commited by rightwingers.
This was written februari this year.Over the last decade, individuals and groups fueled by this virulent ideology have committed 71 percent of the known politically or religiously inspired killings in our country — that is, 274 of the 387 Americans murdered by extremists. Reports now indicate it was part of the recent murder of 17 school children and teachers in Florida, just as it was part of mass shootings that have happened everywhere from California to Charleston. It has not just hit inside the US, but has struck many of our closest allies, both causing near-tragedies and horrible massacres. It is not a new threat; it has killed hundreds of Americans in past decades. But it is growing in power and influence
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On October 29 2018 01:46 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 00:58 NewSunshine wrote:On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Now, had someone like Corbyn said “Jews are not people and deserve beatings for their actions against Palestinians,” I can see your point. Or, like if Maxine Waters says, “And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them“ and a bunch of Dems creates crowds and start harassing Republican political appointtees, I acknowledge you have a point in that instance. She literally called for it. I like the way you keep going back to Maxine Waters, a woman who has only ever called for activism and protest in the face of what the Republicans are doing. No matter how much you want it to be true, she has never once called for violence. Then I take it you don’t condemn her words, but want me to condemn Trump’s. I love it. Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Any rube can identify Trump’s enemies... they mark themselves as enemies making up stories and saying he’s a threat to Democracy itself. Fuck, you don’t even need Trump saying one word; they’ll jump up on a podium and jeer. Choice of targets is one of the more stupid ways to point to Trump. If tomorrow some friend of yours tried to assassinate Trump, I wouldn’t bumble on about how Liquid’Drone selected him out particularly for encouraging violence, thus justifying putting an end to Trump’s encouragement of violence. Uhm, of course you wouldn't, because calling someone out for the way they encourage violence is not the same as being the person encouraging violence. Was this supposed to make some sort of point? Trump has been using his loudest microphone to encourage violence against people they disagree with since he was campaigning. "I'll pay for your legal fees." There is no equivalency here. Yes, and in the wake of protests that cancelled rallies and protestors breaking through security, maybe you’d also want to pay the legal fees for someone who fights back. But quoting out of context is kinda your game, and plays to people that already agree to you, so carry on with the games.
This means absolutely nothing coming from you.
Also, you're goddamn right that I don't condemn calls for protest, but do condemn calls for violence. See how that works?
On October 29 2018 01:46 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:06 NewSunshine wrote:
I hadn't even seen the story about the ricin before. If true, it's unacceptable. Even so, that same article describes Obama receiving ricin on more than one occasion, so is this really a point that Democrats have somehow made things worse under Trump? It gets so little media attention when it contradicts your narrative that I’m not even surprised you missed it. You have to mail ricin to Democratic politicians or media figures to even have it register these days.
I have problems with the way the media presents information. It doesn't mean I'm about to call them the enemy of the people like Trump has. Can you not give me shit about agreeing with you guys on a story you wanted me to see?
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On October 29 2018 02:55 Grumbels wrote:The majority of terrorism in the US comes from the far-right. It is kind of transparent to compare Mitch McConnel being yelled at in a restaurant with the parade of murders commited by rightwingers. This was written februari this year. Show nested quote +Over the last decade, individuals and groups fueled by this virulent ideology have committed 71 percent of the known politically or religiously inspired killings in our country — that is, 274 of the 387 Americans murdered by extremists. Reports now indicate it was part of the recent murder of 17 school children and teachers in Florida, just as it was part of mass shootings that have happened everywhere from California to Charleston. It has not just hit inside the US, but has struck many of our closest allies, both causing near-tragedies and horrible massacres. It is not a new threat; it has killed hundreds of Americans in past decades. But it is growing in power and influence
The idea that getting up close and personal with an official and speaking your mind is at all on the same level as running people over and sending bombs in the mail is insane to me. Protest and violence are now one and the same, so long as it's politically expedient.
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On October 29 2018 02:59 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:46 Danglars wrote:On October 29 2018 00:58 NewSunshine wrote:On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Now, had someone like Corbyn said “Jews are not people and deserve beatings for their actions against Palestinians,” I can see your point. Or, like if Maxine Waters says, “And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them“ and a bunch of Dems creates crowds and start harassing Republican political appointtees, I acknowledge you have a point in that instance. She literally called for it. I like the way you keep going back to Maxine Waters, a woman who has only ever called for activism and protest in the face of what the Republicans are doing. No matter how much you want it to be true, she has never once called for violence. Then I take it you don’t condemn her words, but want me to condemn Trump’s. I love it. On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Any rube can identify Trump’s enemies... they mark themselves as enemies making up stories and saying he’s a threat to Democracy itself. Fuck, you don’t even need Trump saying one word; they’ll jump up on a podium and jeer. Choice of targets is one of the more stupid ways to point to Trump. If tomorrow some friend of yours tried to assassinate Trump, I wouldn’t bumble on about how Liquid’Drone selected him out particularly for encouraging violence, thus justifying putting an end to Trump’s encouragement of violence. Uhm, of course you wouldn't, because calling someone out for the way they encourage violence is not the same as being the person encouraging violence. Was this supposed to make some sort of point? Trump has been using his loudest microphone to encourage violence against people they disagree with since he was campaigning. "I'll pay for your legal fees." There is no equivalency here. Yes, and in the wake of protests that cancelled rallies and protestors breaking through security, maybe you’d also want to pay the legal fees for someone who fights back. But quoting out of context is kinda your game, and plays to people that already agree to you, so carry on with the games. This means absolutely nothing coming from you. Also, you're goddamn right that I don't condemn calls for protest, but do condemn calls for violence. See how that works?
I’d respond, but the last one meant nothing because it comes from me. I’m the only voice I have, so remind me when you have substance in your response.
Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:46 Danglars wrote:On October 29 2018 01:06 NewSunshine wrote:
I hadn't even seen the story about the ricin before. If true, it's unacceptable. Even so, that same article describes Obama receiving ricin on more than one occasion, so is this really a point that Democrats have somehow made things worse under Trump? It gets so little media attention when it contradicts your narrative that I’m not even surprised you missed it. You have to mail ricin to Democratic politicians or media figures to even have it register these days. I have problems with the way the media presents information. It doesn't mean I'm about to call them the enemy of the people like Trump has. Can you not give me shit about agreeing with you guys on a story you wanted me to see?
You were very passionate in your attacks on one side, so I was a little shocked at your ignorance of both sides. I think the problems of the largest employers of journalists result in the kind of arguments I keep hearing from you. If you have anything better than the violent protestors rushing the stage at Trump rallies and how mean he was for making a crack about legal fees, come back. You wipe away one cluster of violence with your hand, before pointing it angrily at another. It’s so transparent.
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On October 29 2018 03:49 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:59 NewSunshine wrote:On October 29 2018 01:46 Danglars wrote:On October 29 2018 00:58 NewSunshine wrote:On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Now, had someone like Corbyn said “Jews are not people and deserve beatings for their actions against Palestinians,” I can see your point. Or, like if Maxine Waters says, “And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them“ and a bunch of Dems creates crowds and start harassing Republican political appointtees, I acknowledge you have a point in that instance. She literally called for it. I like the way you keep going back to Maxine Waters, a woman who has only ever called for activism and protest in the face of what the Republicans are doing. No matter how much you want it to be true, she has never once called for violence. Then I take it you don’t condemn her words, but want me to condemn Trump’s. I love it. On October 29 2018 00:26 Danglars wrote:
Any rube can identify Trump’s enemies... they mark themselves as enemies making up stories and saying he’s a threat to Democracy itself. Fuck, you don’t even need Trump saying one word; they’ll jump up on a podium and jeer. Choice of targets is one of the more stupid ways to point to Trump. If tomorrow some friend of yours tried to assassinate Trump, I wouldn’t bumble on about how Liquid’Drone selected him out particularly for encouraging violence, thus justifying putting an end to Trump’s encouragement of violence. Uhm, of course you wouldn't, because calling someone out for the way they encourage violence is not the same as being the person encouraging violence. Was this supposed to make some sort of point? Trump has been using his loudest microphone to encourage violence against people they disagree with since he was campaigning. "I'll pay for your legal fees." There is no equivalency here. Yes, and in the wake of protests that cancelled rallies and protestors breaking through security, maybe you’d also want to pay the legal fees for someone who fights back. But quoting out of context is kinda your game, and plays to people that already agree to you, so carry on with the games. This means absolutely nothing coming from you. Also, you're goddamn right that I don't condemn calls for protest, but do condemn calls for violence. See how that works? I’d respond, but the last one meant nothing because it comes from me. I’m the only voice I have, so remind me when you have substance in your response. Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:46 Danglars wrote:On October 29 2018 01:06 NewSunshine wrote:
I hadn't even seen the story about the ricin before. If true, it's unacceptable. Even so, that same article describes Obama receiving ricin on more than one occasion, so is this really a point that Democrats have somehow made things worse under Trump? It gets so little media attention when it contradicts your narrative that I’m not even surprised you missed it. You have to mail ricin to Democratic politicians or media figures to even have it register these days. I have problems with the way the media presents information. It doesn't mean I'm about to call them the enemy of the people like Trump has. Can you not give me shit about agreeing with you guys on a story you wanted me to see? You were very passionate in your attacks on one side, so I was a little shocked at your ignorance of both sides. I think the problems of the largest employers of journalists result in the kind of arguments I keep hearing from you. If you have anything better than the violent protestors rushing the stage at Trump rallies and how mean he was for making a crack about legal fees, come back. You wipe away one cluster of violence with your hand, before pointing it angrily at another. It’s so transparent.
Yes, the President of the United States, using his platform as such, to encourage an environment of violence against protesters, journalists, and (((globalists))), is nothing more than "making a crack". Because nobody takes anything he says seriously, and he's not the most powerful man in the free world.
If you would be willing to own your shit, I'd be a little more willing to engage you at length, but you're not. You find every excuse to say that the damage Trump is causing is really no big deal, and people should just grow a thicker skin. So I don't much see the point.
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This is largely off topic but there's a question I never got to ask in the main thread since that wouldn't fly there, but I think I can ask it here. Am I the only one who strongly suspects that kwiz was paid by the Clinton campaign during 2016?
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Norway28673 Posts
Seems like a weird thing to suspect. He registered in 2011 and made long, thorough political posts a long time before the presidential campaign started. Really don't understand what is so weird about his posting that it triggers any of your flags, other than a possible 'they were so elaborate nobody would do it for free', but then I'm fairly confident he mostly enjoyed writing them.
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On October 28 2018 06:20 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 03:43 iamthedave wrote:
Something something free speech something something prejudice against Conservatives something.
It's another example of how the modern US has a problem with understanding that free speech is meant to come with responsibilities, and there really is nothing wrong with putting someone like this in their place. You're thinking of nations with heavy restrictions on free speech that make them more into "policed speech" or "speech codes" countries. But I guess the real question is when you say "is meant to come," what authority are you quoting that's imparting the meaning? For example, did God tell you it's meant to come with your batch of restrictions? But this is mostly you joking in the "dumb conservative" meme "something something free speech", so don't think I was actually thinking you had an argument here, and feel the need to respond. Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 03:59 GreenHorizons wrote:
In a week we've had the white supremacist terrorist "MAGA Bomber", a white supremacist terrorist try to shoot up a predominately Black church (killed two at a nearby grocery store instead), and now a a white supremacist terrorist shooting up a synagogue.
That's 3 different white supremacist terrorist attacks in a week. Republicans would be losing their minds if they were Muslims
Regardless of how much responsibility folks want to place at Trump's feet, there's clearly an uptick in white supremacists committing violent terrorist attacks and a president that has done a trash job of addressing it. You've had a little expansive definition of white supremacy in my opinion, but what about this synagogue shooting makes it anything beyond anti-semitism? I mean the guy hated Trump, and I'm not super immersed in why people think crazies that hate Trump are nonetheless motivated enough by Trump to make him responsible to address it more.
He is a white supremacist thinking Jews should be exterminated.
I didn't suggest he was motivated by Trump, but Trump is the president and we've had 3 terrorist attacks in a week and his response has been to talk softer and read what he's given more faithfully than usual. That's just trash tier leadership.
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On October 29 2018 02:26 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media. Go to the main thread if you want to post utter garbage like this. Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:24 iamthedave wrote:On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media. The Flash couldn't get there quicker. You, too.
No thanks. Your post had more words in it but it was absolute trash, so you might as well kick yourself out of the thread as well. I'd like to believe you're capable of better than that nonsense.
On October 29 2018 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 06:20 Danglars wrote:On October 28 2018 03:43 iamthedave wrote:
Something something free speech something something prejudice against Conservatives something.
It's another example of how the modern US has a problem with understanding that free speech is meant to come with responsibilities, and there really is nothing wrong with putting someone like this in their place. You're thinking of nations with heavy restrictions on free speech that make them more into "policed speech" or "speech codes" countries. But I guess the real question is when you say "is meant to come," what authority are you quoting that's imparting the meaning? For example, did God tell you it's meant to come with your batch of restrictions? But this is mostly you joking in the "dumb conservative" meme "something something free speech", so don't think I was actually thinking you had an argument here, and feel the need to respond. On October 28 2018 03:59 GreenHorizons wrote:
In a week we've had the white supremacist terrorist "MAGA Bomber", a white supremacist terrorist try to shoot up a predominately Black church (killed two at a nearby grocery store instead), and now a a white supremacist terrorist shooting up a synagogue.
That's 3 different white supremacist terrorist attacks in a week. Republicans would be losing their minds if they were Muslims
Regardless of how much responsibility folks want to place at Trump's feet, there's clearly an uptick in white supremacists committing violent terrorist attacks and a president that has done a trash job of addressing it. You've had a little expansive definition of white supremacy in my opinion, but what about this synagogue shooting makes it anything beyond anti-semitism? I mean the guy hated Trump, and I'm not super immersed in why people think crazies that hate Trump are nonetheless motivated enough by Trump to make him responsible to address it more. He is a white supremacist thinking Jews should be exterminated. I didn't suggest he was motivated by Trump, but Trump is the president and we've had 3 terrorist attacks in a week and his response has been to talk softer and read what he's given more faithfully than usual. That's just trash tier leadership.
Modern day Presidential. Way worse than old day Presidential.
Out of curiousity - at this point I'm at a loss for what he could do - what do you think would be a good way to show sterling leadership in this goddamn awful week of awfulness? I kind of feel like there's no one act that would work, it'd need to be a genuine change of behaviour. Anything less would seem insincere (as Trump always does since he calls for peace out of one side of his mouth and attacks someone else out of the other). Hypothetically, even if Trump couldn't, do you think it would matter if the House and Senate senators all came together and showed unity for once?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 29 2018 05:17 Nebuchad wrote:
This is largely off topic but there's a question I never got to ask in the main thread since that wouldn't fly there, but I think I can ask it here. Am I the only one who strongly suspects that kwiz was paid by the Clinton campaign during 2016?
Agenda-driven without a doubt, vexingly in lockstep with the Clinton foreign policy positions absolutely, employed within that policy apparatus quite likely, but doesn't exactly seem like a campaign staffer.
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On October 29 2018 06:36 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media. Go to the main thread if you want to post utter garbage like this. On October 29 2018 02:24 iamthedave wrote:On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media. The Flash couldn't get there quicker. You, too. No thanks. Your post had more words in it but it was absolute trash, so you might as well kick yourself out of the thread as well.
<Mod-hat> Meh, his post wasn't especially bad, Jock's was a pithy point and you're one-liner barely cleared the laugh test. Was hoping that would be the end of it. You guys can argue your points about violent rhetoric, Trump and all that but no one is interested in you guys spatting about who needs to go to the other thread.
<poster-hat> I have more problems with xDaunts post than I had an interest in unpacking so I won't. But I completely support people using their first amendment rights to make politicians aware of their displeasure even if that means it's inconvenient for them to eat in public restaurants. The Kieth Ellison thing is laughable to me, and ANTIFA is generally good anyway (assholes are everywhere though), I'm not sure what is being argued regarding the Sanders supporter shooter, and the ricin thing is sorta perennial, iirc every recent president has gotten a ricin letter (though I'm not sure this one has been confirmed as ricin or we know who sent it)
Modern day Presidential. Way worse than old day Presidential.
Out of curiousity - at this point I'm at a loss for what he could do - what do you think would be a good way to show sterling leadership in this goddamn awful week of awfulness? I kind of feel like there's no one act that would work, it'd need to be a genuine change of behaviour. Anything less would seem insincere (as Trump always does since he calls for peace out of one side of his mouth and attacks someone else out of the other). Hypothetically, even if Trump couldn't, do you think it would matter if the House and Senate senators all came together and showed unity for once?
I mean he himself is totally incapable as far as I can tell. That's not even a political thing, it's just he doesn't seem capable of leading the kind of dialogue the country needs to have, without even considering all the baggage he would be bringing to it himself.
I'm trying to make the point that an honest reflection of this from conservatives/Republicans has to recognize that Trump's leadership on dealing with an increasing terrorist threat has been deficient. That's why (imo) you saw them relish people making the argument that can (however crudely) be reduced to "this is Trump's fault eh? Typical libturd" or whatever. Because that's one where they can equivocate and make the argument about various equivocations instead of the one where they know their core values are challenged. The one where they have to confront the threats of Anti-Semetic/white supremacist terrorists are not only real and significant, but seem to be more frequent and the president isn't dealing with it with the the kind of seriousness and urgency they know they would expect for other terrorists from other presidents.
Or if they want to argue the threat of white supremacy isn't significant (they have in the past), or that Trump is responding to these terrorist attacks sufficiently they have to do it in the context of several terrorist attacks in the last week and no discernible (from my perspective) strategy, let alone a good one, to confront it from Trump. Not even from a strictly national security angle.
EDIT: Forgot about the house and senate part of the question.It's deeper than some superficial kumbayah moment imo so not likely, but it'd be better than they've been doing.
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On October 29 2018 05:38 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Seems like a weird thing to suspect. He registered in 2011 and made long, thorough political posts a long time before the presidential campaign started. Really don't understand what is so weird about his posting that it triggers any of your flags, other than a possible 'they were so elaborate nobody would do it for free', but then I'm fairly confident he mostly enjoyed writing them.
Was he always posting at this rate? Cause one of the main reasons I believe that is because he was posting so often in this fashion, and then afterwards just stopped... If he was consistently posting at this rate before 2016 that would certainly be bad for my theory =)
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Norway28673 Posts
On October 29 2018 07:12 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 05:38 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Seems like a weird thing to suspect. He registered in 2011 and made long, thorough political posts a long time before the presidential campaign started. Really don't understand what is so weird about his posting that it triggers any of your flags, other than a possible 'they were so elaborate nobody would do it for free', but then I'm fairly confident he mostly enjoyed writing them. Was he always posting at this rate? Cause one of the main reasons I believe that is because he was posting so often in this fashion, and then afterwards just stopped... If he was consistently posting at this rate before 2016 that would certainly be bad for my theory =)
I actually found his graph!
There's definitely an uptick with him doubling his previous peaks, but he had several peaks in the past also. I don't actually feel like checking whether the 2012 uptick is because he was posting a lot of pro-obama stuff (that would take me much more time) but I guess that's a possibility. :D
I mean, I think it's conceivable that he was employed by democrats in some fashion (I think he mentioned having some political job) and then the clinton campaign by extension, but I'm confident he was not paid to post on teamliquid. That just doesn't really make sense to me. Meanwhile I have no problems seeing that a person with genuine political interest would end up posting quite a bit more during a hugely consequential presidential election, or even that he was so disappointed with the result that it made him take an extended break after. 
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I highly doubt that kwizach was paid by a campaign to post here. His posting did not mirror Democrat/Clinton talking points. Instead, his posting reflected his own special brand of personal pathology described in a good amount of detail by me and others. The defining characteristics of his posting were his relentless carrying of grudges, inability to let stuff go, and peerless penchant for straw manning.
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On October 29 2018 07:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 06:36 iamthedave wrote:On October 29 2018 02:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media. Go to the main thread if you want to post utter garbage like this. On October 29 2018 02:24 iamthedave wrote:On October 29 2018 01:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yep.
A Trump supporter's bombing campaign and an antisemitic mass shooting in a week and we're already on how badly the right are treated and victimized by the media. The Flash couldn't get there quicker. You, too. No thanks. Your post had more words in it but it was absolute trash, so you might as well kick yourself out of the thread as well. <Mod-hat> Meh, his post wasn't especially bad, Jock's was a pithy point and you're one-liner barely cleared the laugh test. Was hoping that would be the end of it. You guys can argue your points about violent rhetoric, Trump and all that but no one is interested in you guys spatting about who needs to go to the other thread. <poster-hat> I have more problems with xDaunts post than I had an interest in unpacking so I won't. But I completely support people using their first amendment rights to make politicians aware of their displeasure even if that means it's inconvenient for them to eat in public restaurants. The Kieth Ellison thing is laughable to me, and ANTIFA is generally good anyway (assholes are everywhere though), I'm not sure what is being argued regarding the Sanders supporter shooter, and the ricin thing is sorta perennial, iirc every recent president has gotten a ricin letter (though I'm not sure this one has been confirmed as ricin or we know who sent it) Show nested quote +Modern day Presidential. Way worse than old day Presidential.
Out of curiousity - at this point I'm at a loss for what he could do - what do you think would be a good way to show sterling leadership in this goddamn awful week of awfulness? I kind of feel like there's no one act that would work, it'd need to be a genuine change of behaviour. Anything less would seem insincere (as Trump always does since he calls for peace out of one side of his mouth and attacks someone else out of the other). Hypothetically, even if Trump couldn't, do you think it would matter if the House and Senate senators all came together and showed unity for once? I mean he himself is totally incapable as far as I can tell. That's not even a political thing, it's just he doesn't seem capable of leading the kind of dialogue the country needs to have, without even considering all the baggage he would be bringing to it himself. I'm trying to make the point that an honest reflection of this from conservatives/Republicans has to recognize that Trump's leadership on dealing with an increasing terrorist threat has been deficient. That's why (imo) you saw them relish people making the argument that can (however crudely) be reduced to "this is Trump's fault eh? Typical libturd" or whatever. Because that's one where they can equivocate and make the argument about various equivocations instead of the one where they know their core values are challenged. The one where they have to confront the threats of Anti-Semetic/white supremacist terrorists are not only real and significant, but seem to be more frequent and the president isn't dealing with it with the the kind of seriousness and urgency they know they would expect for other terrorists from other presidents. Or if they want to argue the threat of white supremacy isn't significant (they have in the past), or that Trump is responding to these terrorist attacks sufficiently they have to do it in the context of several terrorist attacks in the last week and no discernible (from my perspective) strategy, let alone a good one, to confront it from Trump. Not even from a strictly national security angle. EDIT: Forgot about the house and senate part of the question.It's deeper than some superficial kumbayah moment imo so not likely, but it'd be better than they've been doing.
That's kind of what I thought, too. The wounds and divisions feel too deep.
I do feel in a roundabout way that this Presidency is showing how valuable good leadership actually is, and why applying a high standard to the character of the President is important. It genuinely matters that a nation is led by something that at least resembles the best of its people, who can rise above it all when the situation demands it. Unless Trump gets nailed to a teleprompter he can't help but either make things about him or go on a grievance rant.
There's no chance to blow off steam. Everyone's grudges just get driven deeper and deeper. I wish US Conservatives recognised and respected the damage this Presidency is doing, and at least were driving for a Primary challenger to replace him at the four year mark. But no, it's the Trump GOP now, and everyone's playing the same toxic game.
Blame for an individual incident misses the point; it's the atmosphere that's to blame. Everyone's on edge and getting closer to snapping, and those already close to it don't have far to go. And it's definitely Trump who's to blame for that.
I do worry y'all are going to get a lot more of this if it goes the full 8 years. Maybe if Trump gets outed in 4 there'll be a chance at course correction. Maybe. Problem is I don't know who on the stage could be that corrector. Sanders could maybe do it. But then the right will go insane with fear if he gets into power (I can imagine the FOX headlines with such clarity it's like I'm in an alternate reality), which seems to me the same situation we're in now, just with a different emotion. Though at least I think liberals would calm down a bit and it wouldn't be quite as bad.
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EPT
