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On May 04 2018 20:56 MarcoJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 17:56 MaxModeration wrote:
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The last ASL series got more viewers than SC 2 will EVER REACH AGAIN. Korea, alone, is bigger than the entirety of SC 2. SC 2 needs a boycott more than it needs another penny put into it. Enabling this treatment is sick. do you have some numbers to back that up?
Well, it's pretty easy to guess, the streams alone are bigger than sc2 streams while Afreeca is a TV channel so...
EDIT: Not mentioning that this season has been extremely successful to the point that the live audience have to pay a ticked to watch tournaments in Afreeca TV studio.
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On May 04 2018 21:05 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 08:32 KungKras wrote:On May 03 2018 22:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 03 2018 12:27 Kare wrote:
I just wish that the gaming world cared more about RTS. 10 years ago RTS was HUGE with the giant bw scene in korea, wc3 was pretty big. SC2 came out and RTS continued to be super big in e-sports and gaming in general, but now it seems like RTS is a dying species.. I think MOBA's killed it. Very similar elements just simplified and more manageable for your average player. To be honest I think SC2 killed the RTS. It had a more narrow appeal than SC1 since it was designed to be all about E-sports and neglected everything else (like custom games). And thus boxed in the RTS genre into E-sports. And then, new non-RTS E-sports got big, and that was the end of that. That doesn't make much sense. 1) There was hardly any actual development resources put into the game for esports. It was pretty much all put into the campaign, the criticism of the custom games holds up. 2) I don't think the custom game thing makes any sense at all. For one, custom games have gone the way of the dinosaur with the advent of f2p, mobile games, cheap AAA titles, big content patches in games. Also I don't see why custom games matter, if you look at the popular games and genres on the market, none of them rely on custom games to be successful or popular. I think if your make the argument that the RTS needs custom games to flourish, that says more about the unappealing aspects of RTS than anything else. Also, most succsesful RTS games outside of Blizzard dont have custom games at all, or even decent map editors. They didnt "need" that stuff. Ultimately, the post would only make sense if SC2 bombed and thats what drove people away from making RTS games, when it was a plethora of other factors. Ensemble studios shuttered, and EA took EA Los Angeles off of RTS before SC2 was released. CNC4 failing so bad probably had more of an effect than any shortcomings of SC2. Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 17:56 MaxModeration wrote:
Korea is an example of what CAN happen if people actually take the scene seriously and invest in it. What gets me is, no one ever brings up SC 2: There is all of this money pumped into SC 2, by Blizzard, yet... it's not a big esport. The numbers are never anything worth talking about. They're embarrassingly low compared to the money put into the game.
The point is, how big would non Korean SC 2 be if Blizzard treated SC2 like they do Broodwar? It would be in the same freaking boat... every pro would quit tomorrow if Blizzard announced they would treat SC 2 like they do Broodwar. The casuals would quickly follow. All you ever see is whining and complaining. The rarest thing in SC 2 is finding someone who loves the game -- who isn't paid to "love" it.
It's just a slap in the face, all things considered, that Blizzard can't even spare a dime in regards to Broodwar, yet they can pay streamers 50k or whatever just to stream some campaign stuff for a few days. Come on.
All I ever hear about is how Morhaime will never stop investing in SC 2 cause it's a passion project. Returns be damned. Given the numbers... that comment makes sense. But, on the other hand, what, does this guy have zero passion for Broodwar? He loves the inferior version? What, is he dumb? Last I checked, Broodwar helped make Blizzard what it is today. What has SC 2 done? Provided us with some of the worst units in RTS history?
The Broodwar scene was ridiculously big back in the day, for having no money to play for... This game has NEVER been given a chance to flourish, outside of Korea. Honestly, it just looks they're afraid they can't monetize Broodwar properly. They don't want people to play it. They'd rather them play any of their other games. A sick fetish that is embarrassing and unbecoming.
The last ASL series got more viewers than SC 2 will EVER REACH AGAIN. Korea, alone, is bigger than the entirety of SC 2. SC 2 needs a boycott more than it needs another penny put into it. Enabling this treatment is sick. This post is just incredibly ignorant. They've spent a good chunk on BW events over the years, so to say "they cant spare a dime" after we had the anniversary events, and several showmatches, not to mention Blizzcons, Worldwide Invitiationals, etc in the past. And they said they're planning on a competition this year and something bigger next year. (That's not to say there's not stuff worth criticizing its just that statement sucks) Also you fail to mention that SC2 is still bringing in money for them. Your viewership anecdotes don't really matter much when those are almost exclusively in Korea. That's 1 niche market compared to the weight of the rest of the world. Your call for boycott is also incredibly nonsensical, if you had the numbers for a decent boycott, then there wouldnt be player/viewership problems in the West.
"They've spent a good chunk on BW events over the years"
It was only the Remastered event which was a single money-grabbing event to sell remastered copies.
"Blizzcons, Worldwide Invitiationals"
Those are micro events that doesn't matter at all in the gran scheme of building a pro scene in the west.
"Also you fail to mention that SC2 is still bringing in money for them."
Just because of micro transactions.
"Your viewership anecdotes don't really matter much when those are almost exclusively in Korea. That's 1 niche market compared to the weight of the rest of the world"
That's what all this topic is about: To promote and build a BW e-sport scene in the west.
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I skipped through the Afreeca TV Vods for GSL and ASL and ASL is on avg about 5-10k up. Still if we dont have reliable numbers on viewercounts on the yt chan as well as the afreeca tv chan we cant make any solid judgement.
P.S: yt vods.
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On May 04 2018 21:22 MarcoJ wrote:
I skipped through the Afreeca TV Vods for GSL and ASL and ASL is on avg about 5-10k up. Still if we dont have reliable numbers on viewercounts on the yt chan as well as the afreeca tv chan we cant make any solid judgement.
P.S: yt vods.
Oh cmon, everybody knows that sc1 is bigger then sc2 taking in account Korea, even sc2 fanboys know that.
EDIT: in case you missed the previous edit: "Not mentioning that this season has been extremely successful to the point that the live audience have to pay a ticked to watch tournaments in Afreeca TV studio."
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On May 04 2018 21:28 AntiHack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 21:22 MarcoJ wrote:
I skipped through the Afreeca TV Vods for GSL and ASL and ASL is on avg about 5-10k up. Still if we dont have reliable numbers on viewercounts on the yt chan as well as the afreeca tv chan we cant make any solid judgement.
P.S: yt vods. Oh cmon, everybody knows that sc1 is bigger then sc2 taking in account Korea, even sc2 fanboys know that. EDIT: in case you missed the previous edit: "Not mentioning that this season has been extremely successful to the point that the live audience have to pay a ticked to watch tournaments in Afreeca TV studio."
I just dont like that you are claiming things. If its common knowledge than it would be easy to provide proof of that. I actually looked up the numbers and it seems like the player base for SC2(http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&sy=g&sx=a) is more or less the same for SC (https://starlog.gg/en/leaderboard/graph?gateway=global).
This data is not cleaned (one user can have multiple account on multiple gateways). But the Playerbase in KR seems bigger in SC than in SC2, while its the opposite for the West (US+EU).
Taking into account the yt VOD numbers from afreeca tv for gsl and asl (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK5eBtuoj_HkdXKHNmBLAXg/playlists). Also ASL has a better viewcount. Since probably it is mostly used by foreigners I checked the afreeca tv accounts for each league. ASL has more Follower and Total views versus GSL (http://afreecatv.com/afstar1, http://afreecatv.com/afgsl), but GSL is also broadcastet at twitch.tv (https://www.twitch.tv/gsl). They have nearly 150k follower there (ASL has ~65k) and about 48M total views (ASL 21M). So it seems quite close.
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On May 04 2018 21:18 AntiHack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 21:05 lestye wrote:On May 04 2018 08:32 KungKras wrote:On May 03 2018 22:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 03 2018 12:27 Kare wrote:
I just wish that the gaming world cared more about RTS. 10 years ago RTS was HUGE with the giant bw scene in korea, wc3 was pretty big. SC2 came out and RTS continued to be super big in e-sports and gaming in general, but now it seems like RTS is a dying species.. I think MOBA's killed it. Very similar elements just simplified and more manageable for your average player. To be honest I think SC2 killed the RTS. It had a more narrow appeal than SC1 since it was designed to be all about E-sports and neglected everything else (like custom games). And thus boxed in the RTS genre into E-sports. And then, new non-RTS E-sports got big, and that was the end of that. That doesn't make much sense. 1) There was hardly any actual development resources put into the game for esports. It was pretty much all put into the campaign, the criticism of the custom games holds up. 2) I don't think the custom game thing makes any sense at all. For one, custom games have gone the way of the dinosaur with the advent of f2p, mobile games, cheap AAA titles, big content patches in games. Also I don't see why custom games matter, if you look at the popular games and genres on the market, none of them rely on custom games to be successful or popular. I think if your make the argument that the RTS needs custom games to flourish, that says more about the unappealing aspects of RTS than anything else. Also, most succsesful RTS games outside of Blizzard dont have custom games at all, or even decent map editors. They didnt "need" that stuff. Ultimately, the post would only make sense if SC2 bombed and thats what drove people away from making RTS games, when it was a plethora of other factors. Ensemble studios shuttered, and EA took EA Los Angeles off of RTS before SC2 was released. CNC4 failing so bad probably had more of an effect than any shortcomings of SC2. On May 04 2018 17:56 MaxModeration wrote:
Korea is an example of what CAN happen if people actually take the scene seriously and invest in it. What gets me is, no one ever brings up SC 2: There is all of this money pumped into SC 2, by Blizzard, yet... it's not a big esport. The numbers are never anything worth talking about. They're embarrassingly low compared to the money put into the game.
The point is, how big would non Korean SC 2 be if Blizzard treated SC2 like they do Broodwar? It would be in the same freaking boat... every pro would quit tomorrow if Blizzard announced they would treat SC 2 like they do Broodwar. The casuals would quickly follow. All you ever see is whining and complaining. The rarest thing in SC 2 is finding someone who loves the game -- who isn't paid to "love" it.
It's just a slap in the face, all things considered, that Blizzard can't even spare a dime in regards to Broodwar, yet they can pay streamers 50k or whatever just to stream some campaign stuff for a few days. Come on.
All I ever hear about is how Morhaime will never stop investing in SC 2 cause it's a passion project. Returns be damned. Given the numbers... that comment makes sense. But, on the other hand, what, does this guy have zero passion for Broodwar? He loves the inferior version? What, is he dumb? Last I checked, Broodwar helped make Blizzard what it is today. What has SC 2 done? Provided us with some of the worst units in RTS history?
The Broodwar scene was ridiculously big back in the day, for having no money to play for... This game has NEVER been given a chance to flourish, outside of Korea. Honestly, it just looks they're afraid they can't monetize Broodwar properly. They don't want people to play it. They'd rather them play any of their other games. A sick fetish that is embarrassing and unbecoming.
The last ASL series got more viewers than SC 2 will EVER REACH AGAIN. Korea, alone, is bigger than the entirety of SC 2. SC 2 needs a boycott more than it needs another penny put into it. Enabling this treatment is sick. This post is just incredibly ignorant. They've spent a good chunk on BW events over the years, so to say "they cant spare a dime" after we had the anniversary events, and several showmatches, not to mention Blizzcons, Worldwide Invitiationals, etc in the past. And they said they're planning on a competition this year and something bigger next year. (That's not to say there's not stuff worth criticizing its just that statement sucks) Also you fail to mention that SC2 is still bringing in money for them. Your viewership anecdotes don't really matter much when those are almost exclusively in Korea. That's 1 niche market compared to the weight of the rest of the world. Your call for boycott is also incredibly nonsensical, if you had the numbers for a decent boycott, then there wouldnt be player/viewership problems in the West. "They've spent a good chunk on BW events over the years" It was only the Remastered event which was a single money-grabbing event to sell remastered copies. "Blizzcons, Worldwide Invitiationals" Those are micro events that doesn't matter at all in the gran scheme of building a pro scene in the west. "Also you fail to mention that SC2 is still bringing in money for them." Just because of micro transactions. "Your viewership anecdotes don't really matter much when those are almost exclusively in Korea. That's 1 niche market compared to the weight of the rest of the world" That's what all this topic is about: To promote and build a BW e-sport scene in the west.
You also had the 1<3 Starcraft event.
And regardless of "micro events", they were a big deal at the time, especially in the mid 2000s. And so what if their micro events? The claim was that they didn't spend a dime, when that was not true at all. Especially when you could argue that shouldn't be necessary. Counterstrike got absolutely massive in the West without Valve spending a single dollar in the game's 12 year competitive history.
Yeah, microtransactions are important, which is why it's nonsensical to moan why one game is favored another.
And I agree that's what this topic is about, so why was that guy bringing up figures that aren't applicable?
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Isnt this AntiHack personal thread to hate on Starcraft 2?
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On May 04 2018 22:32 MarcoJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 21:28 AntiHack wrote:On May 04 2018 21:22 MarcoJ wrote:
I skipped through the Afreeca TV Vods for GSL and ASL and ASL is on avg about 5-10k up. Still if we dont have reliable numbers on viewercounts on the yt chan as well as the afreeca tv chan we cant make any solid judgement.
P.S: yt vods. Oh cmon, everybody knows that sc1 is bigger then sc2 taking in account Korea, even sc2 fanboys know that. EDIT: in case you missed the previous edit: "Not mentioning that this season has been extremely successful to the point that the live audience have to pay a ticked to watch tournaments in Afreeca TV studio." I just dont like that you are claiming things. If its common knowledge than it would be easy to provide proof of that. I actually looked up the numbers and it seems like the player base for SC2(http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&sy=g&sx=a) is more or less the same for SC (https://starlog.gg/en/leaderboard/graph?gateway=global). This data is not cleaned (one user can have multiple account on multiple gateways). But the Playerbase in KR seems bigger in SC than in SC2, while its the opposite for the West (US+EU). Taking into account the yt VOD numbers from afreeca tv for gsl and asl (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK5eBtuoj_HkdXKHNmBLAXg/playlists). Also ASL has a better viewcount. Since probably it is mostly used by foreigners I checked the afreeca tv accounts for each league. ASL has more Follower and Total views versus GSL (http://afreecatv.com/afstar1, http://afreecatv.com/afgsl), but GSL is also broadcastet at twitch.tv (https://www.twitch.tv/gsl). They have nearly 150k follower there (ASL has ~65k) and about 48M total views (ASL 21M). So it seems quite close.
You're underestimating how much the Koreans are used to watch starcraft on TV and also how many non-players audience there was back in the days and even more nowadays that the old sc1 fans have grown up and have a family but still enjoy watching sc1 on TV.
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In regards to the above, all you have to do is simply take a glance at the sidebar on TL.net. Korean BW streamers always have way more viewers. When you look at the sidebar, you'd never have ANY idea that SC 2 was the favorite child, if you knew nothing else about the games.
It's routine for 1 BW streamer to have as many viewers or more than SC 2 has overall, at the time. If every Korean was going to watch something, it would be the last ASL series. The elephant in the room is that BW in Korea is already bigger than SC 2 is, overall.
One of the reasons... all of the "biggest players" are playing BW. Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu (once he returns...). BW has the starpower. SC2 only has... chance for non Koreans to win money. If things were equal... Well... you can see why there is probably a fear/reluctance to equalize things.
User was banned for this post.
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On May 04 2018 22:43 AntiHack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 22:32 MarcoJ wrote:On May 04 2018 21:28 AntiHack wrote:On May 04 2018 21:22 MarcoJ wrote:
I skipped through the Afreeca TV Vods for GSL and ASL and ASL is on avg about 5-10k up. Still if we dont have reliable numbers on viewercounts on the yt chan as well as the afreeca tv chan we cant make any solid judgement.
P.S: yt vods. Oh cmon, everybody knows that sc1 is bigger then sc2 taking in account Korea, even sc2 fanboys know that. EDIT: in case you missed the previous edit: "Not mentioning that this season has been extremely successful to the point that the live audience have to pay a ticked to watch tournaments in Afreeca TV studio." I just dont like that you are claiming things. If its common knowledge than it would be easy to provide proof of that. I actually looked up the numbers and it seems like the player base for SC2(http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&sy=g&sx=a) is more or less the same for SC (https://starlog.gg/en/leaderboard/graph?gateway=global). This data is not cleaned (one user can have multiple account on multiple gateways). But the Playerbase in KR seems bigger in SC than in SC2, while its the opposite for the West (US+EU). Taking into account the yt VOD numbers from afreeca tv for gsl and asl (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK5eBtuoj_HkdXKHNmBLAXg/playlists). Also ASL has a better viewcount. Since probably it is mostly used by foreigners I checked the afreeca tv accounts for each league. ASL has more Follower and Total views versus GSL (http://afreecatv.com/afstar1, http://afreecatv.com/afgsl), but GSL is also broadcastet at twitch.tv (https://www.twitch.tv/gsl). They have nearly 150k follower there (ASL has ~65k) and about 48M total views (ASL 21M). So it seems quite close. You're underestimating how much the Koreans are used to watch starcraft on TV and also how many non-players audience there was back in the days and even more nowadays that the old sc1 fans have grown up and have a family but still enjoy watching sc1 on TV.
Yes this might be. But is SC2 not broadcastet on Korean TV? How many ppl from the "old days" have maybe switched to SC2? How much people are that actually? You are still claiming things without a single proof. Even just a news article or a quote from a person thats in Korea (like Artosis, Tasteless, Rapid whatever).
I dont like the style of having a discussion.
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On May 04 2018 22:37 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 21:18 AntiHack wrote:On May 04 2018 21:05 lestye wrote:On May 04 2018 08:32 KungKras wrote:On May 03 2018 22:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 03 2018 12:27 Kare wrote:
I just wish that the gaming world cared more about RTS. 10 years ago RTS was HUGE with the giant bw scene in korea, wc3 was pretty big. SC2 came out and RTS continued to be super big in e-sports and gaming in general, but now it seems like RTS is a dying species.. I think MOBA's killed it. Very similar elements just simplified and more manageable for your average player. To be honest I think SC2 killed the RTS. It had a more narrow appeal than SC1 since it was designed to be all about E-sports and neglected everything else (like custom games). And thus boxed in the RTS genre into E-sports. And then, new non-RTS E-sports got big, and that was the end of that. That doesn't make much sense. 1) There was hardly any actual development resources put into the game for esports. It was pretty much all put into the campaign, the criticism of the custom games holds up. 2) I don't think the custom game thing makes any sense at all. For one, custom games have gone the way of the dinosaur with the advent of f2p, mobile games, cheap AAA titles, big content patches in games. Also I don't see why custom games matter, if you look at the popular games and genres on the market, none of them rely on custom games to be successful or popular. I think if your make the argument that the RTS needs custom games to flourish, that says more about the unappealing aspects of RTS than anything else. Also, most succsesful RTS games outside of Blizzard dont have custom games at all, or even decent map editors. They didnt "need" that stuff. Ultimately, the post would only make sense if SC2 bombed and thats what drove people away from making RTS games, when it was a plethora of other factors. Ensemble studios shuttered, and EA took EA Los Angeles off of RTS before SC2 was released. CNC4 failing so bad probably had more of an effect than any shortcomings of SC2. On May 04 2018 17:56 MaxModeration wrote:
Korea is an example of what CAN happen if people actually take the scene seriously and invest in it. What gets me is, no one ever brings up SC 2: There is all of this money pumped into SC 2, by Blizzard, yet... it's not a big esport. The numbers are never anything worth talking about. They're embarrassingly low compared to the money put into the game.
The point is, how big would non Korean SC 2 be if Blizzard treated SC2 like they do Broodwar? It would be in the same freaking boat... every pro would quit tomorrow if Blizzard announced they would treat SC 2 like they do Broodwar. The casuals would quickly follow. All you ever see is whining and complaining. The rarest thing in SC 2 is finding someone who loves the game -- who isn't paid to "love" it.
It's just a slap in the face, all things considered, that Blizzard can't even spare a dime in regards to Broodwar, yet they can pay streamers 50k or whatever just to stream some campaign stuff for a few days. Come on.
All I ever hear about is how Morhaime will never stop investing in SC 2 cause it's a passion project. Returns be damned. Given the numbers... that comment makes sense. But, on the other hand, what, does this guy have zero passion for Broodwar? He loves the inferior version? What, is he dumb? Last I checked, Broodwar helped make Blizzard what it is today. What has SC 2 done? Provided us with some of the worst units in RTS history?
The Broodwar scene was ridiculously big back in the day, for having no money to play for... This game has NEVER been given a chance to flourish, outside of Korea. Honestly, it just looks they're afraid they can't monetize Broodwar properly. They don't want people to play it. They'd rather them play any of their other games. A sick fetish that is embarrassing and unbecoming.
The last ASL series got more viewers than SC 2 will EVER REACH AGAIN. Korea, alone, is bigger than the entirety of SC 2. SC 2 needs a boycott more than it needs another penny put into it. Enabling this treatment is sick. This post is just incredibly ignorant. They've spent a good chunk on BW events over the years, so to say "they cant spare a dime" after we had the anniversary events, and several showmatches, not to mention Blizzcons, Worldwide Invitiationals, etc in the past. And they said they're planning on a competition this year and something bigger next year. (That's not to say there's not stuff worth criticizing its just that statement sucks) Also you fail to mention that SC2 is still bringing in money for them. Your viewership anecdotes don't really matter much when those are almost exclusively in Korea. That's 1 niche market compared to the weight of the rest of the world. Your call for boycott is also incredibly nonsensical, if you had the numbers for a decent boycott, then there wouldnt be player/viewership problems in the West. "They've spent a good chunk on BW events over the years" It was only the Remastered event which was a single money-grabbing event to sell remastered copies. "Blizzcons, Worldwide Invitiationals" Those are micro events that doesn't matter at all in the gran scheme of building a pro scene in the west. "Also you fail to mention that SC2 is still bringing in money for them." Just because of micro transactions. "Your viewership anecdotes don't really matter much when those are almost exclusively in Korea. That's 1 niche market compared to the weight of the rest of the world" That's what all this topic is about: To promote and build a BW e-sport scene in the west. You also had the 1<3 Starcraft event. And regardless of "micro events", they were a big deal at the time, especially in the mid 2000s. And so what if their micro events? The claim was that they didn't spend a dime, when that was not true at all. Especially when you could argue that shouldn't be necessary. Counterstrike got absolutely massive in the West without Valve spending a single dollar in the game's 12 year competitive history. Yeah, microtransactions are important, which is why it's nonsensical to moan why one game is favored another. And I agree that's what this topic is about, so why was that guy bringing up figures that aren't applicable?
The 1<3 Starcraft was a micro event as well, a financially little candy for Activision Blizzard.
"And regardless of "micro events", they were a big deal at the time, especially in the mid 2000s. And so what if their micro events?"
They were just show matches showing the Korean peculiar e-sport culture in a western world with no mainstream e-sport.
Counterstrike was a nickle e-sport just like all the e-sports of the time that have ride the new e-sport wave (sc2, mobas) remaking it to CS:GO.
Seems like you forgot where we come from or maybe you wasn't there where nobody in the west knew a single s**t about e-sport.
Don't you remember that every single Korean freaking bus had a sc2 advertiseing on it at sc2 release? Don't you remember the enormous amount of money put in the making of main stream sc2 tournaments of a broken game that wasn't even balanced at the time (not even now). Jesus... even beta sc2 tournaments were financially supported by Blizzard.
Blizzard was clearly willing to replace sc1 e-sport with sc2 e-sport because they had a pretty much vague idea of what e-sport mean and that mindset still persist even now.
"Yeah, microtransactions are important, which is why it's nonsensical to moan why one game is favored another."
If Pixzard believed at last a little bit in giving sc1 a chance they would have introduced micro transactions into sc1.
"And I agree that's what this topic is about, so why was that guy bringing up figures that aren't applicable?"
One can dream and the frustration can lead to have unrealistic expectations.
I can see how TL members have become sc2-centric and I understand why:
Team liquid played a role in the betray of brood war but in the same time have played a role to
promote and build the e-sport in the west so we could leave our nerdy caverns to share our e-
sport passion with the world.
The sad truth is that we've sacrificed on the cross a good and innocent game.
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On May 04 2018 22:50 MarcoJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 22:43 AntiHack wrote:On May 04 2018 22:32 MarcoJ wrote:On May 04 2018 21:28 AntiHack wrote:On May 04 2018 21:22 MarcoJ wrote:
I skipped through the Afreeca TV Vods for GSL and ASL and ASL is on avg about 5-10k up. Still if we dont have reliable numbers on viewercounts on the yt chan as well as the afreeca tv chan we cant make any solid judgement.
P.S: yt vods. Oh cmon, everybody knows that sc1 is bigger then sc2 taking in account Korea, even sc2 fanboys know that. EDIT: in case you missed the previous edit: "Not mentioning that this season has been extremely successful to the point that the live audience have to pay a ticked to watch tournaments in Afreeca TV studio." I just dont like that you are claiming things. If its common knowledge than it would be easy to provide proof of that. I actually looked up the numbers and it seems like the player base for SC2(http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&sy=g&sx=a) is more or less the same for SC (https://starlog.gg/en/leaderboard/graph?gateway=global). This data is not cleaned (one user can have multiple account on multiple gateways). But the Playerbase in KR seems bigger in SC than in SC2, while its the opposite for the West (US+EU). Taking into account the yt VOD numbers from afreeca tv for gsl and asl (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK5eBtuoj_HkdXKHNmBLAXg/playlists). Also ASL has a better viewcount. Since probably it is mostly used by foreigners I checked the afreeca tv accounts for each league. ASL has more Follower and Total views versus GSL (http://afreecatv.com/afstar1, http://afreecatv.com/afgsl), but GSL is also broadcastet at twitch.tv (https://www.twitch.tv/gsl). They have nearly 150k follower there (ASL has ~65k) and about 48M total views (ASL 21M). So it seems quite close. You're underestimating how much the Koreans are used to watch starcraft on TV and also how many non-players audience there was back in the days and even more nowadays that the old sc1 fans have grown up and have a family but still enjoy watching sc1 on TV. Yes this might be. But is SC2 not broadcastet on Korean TV? How many ppl from the "old days" have maybe switched to SC2? How much people are that actually? You are still claiming things without a single proof. Even just a news article or a quote from a person thats in Korea (like Artosis, Tasteless, Rapid whatever). I dont like the style of having a discussion.
Let me assume something: Koreans don't give a single s**t of sc2.
Maybe you don't like me but I still like you <3
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Croatia9530 Posts
How surprising that a thread about BW scene growing has turned into BW vs SC2.
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EPT
