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51578 Posts
On May 03 2018 16:14 sixfour wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 10:43 konadora wrote:
just need to focus on korea, and increase the prize pool to make it sustainable. the player cards reveal how much they've earned in ASL in total and some earned like $1000 since ASL1... dude that aint sustainable. Ignoring the streaming comment below, it's perfectly sustainable if they don't make the prize money so ridiculously top heavy. The snooker world championship going on and darts world championship (32 and 72 runner fields respectively) give 20-25% to the winners. Wimbledon is just below 20%. The upcoming football World Cup gives less than 10% to the winning team. ASL gives over 50%.
lets be honest, does anyone actually give a shit about the world cup giving out prize money? players for the most part make way more from their clubs than they do for national team tournaments.
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scene is growing, look qikz league even mind and best are playing. BSL is going to chicago next season.have at you is onfire with koget winning the tournament vs shinee.So we are ready to go Blizzard!
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I think Blizzard would be surprised at how little they could do to give the foreign scene a boost. Some increased air time, a few sponsored tournaments, and some attention at Blizzcon. The Foreign scene is staying alive and thriving from my perspective, on 100% our own gas. This is just a personal thing, but I dont really care as much about the Korean scene, I mean sure I watch ASL and love it, but what is really close to home is things like CPL quikz league and everything that schamtoo does. I think its funny when people say ditch the west, just focus on Korea; when all they need to do is leave the Korean scene alone and not hassle them, and they could get some big ROI for the FBW scene.
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Incontrol already gave the reason why there is so little coming
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On May 03 2018 14:02 Chessz wrote:
I think blizzard needs to get some priorities straight regarding sc2 vs. brood war -- sc2 didn't catch on in korea so shift to supporting BW, both communities can thrive globally, but hopefully BW in korea is going to continue to grow. We've seen the effect of some of the Afreeca map makers really coming into play.
Doing things like hardballing the ASL for royalties/licensing doesn't help, considering KeSPA is really responsible for the game becoming what it did.
Leave it to Actiblizz, though..
I think I would give the credit to OGN, not Kespa.
But regardless, I don't think a hard shift is realistic considering they're not really getting money out of BW like they are SC2. There's no microtransactions or anything.
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I'm not sure what Incontrol's game is. He seems to only come on the forums when he wants to point out how terrible of a community we all are, even though he dosen't hardly contribute much anymore. It's frustrating because I like him as a caster, but his Forum presence just seems negative, and I certainly hope he isnt using his influence at Blizzard to try and stifle their efforts.
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Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
On May 03 2018 12:27 Kare wrote:
I just wish that the gaming world cared more about RTS. 10 years ago RTS was HUGE with the giant bw scene in korea, wc3 was pretty big. SC2 came out and RTS continued to be super big in e-sports and gaming in general, but now it seems like RTS is a dying species..
I think MOBA's killed it. Very similar elements just simplified and more manageable for your average player.
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There could be some regional focus to fire up the community. The foreigner community looks pretty dead but if you look at it by country, some places are really active, like Peru. I'm on peruvian FB groups and they are 10x more active than TL, lots of people commenting. They don't come here because most don't speak english well. There might be other countries as well, Blizzard should just focus on those.
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On May 03 2018 22:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 12:27 Kare wrote:
I just wish that the gaming world cared more about RTS. 10 years ago RTS was HUGE with the giant bw scene in korea, wc3 was pretty big. SC2 came out and RTS continued to be super big in e-sports and gaming in general, but now it seems like RTS is a dying species.. I think MOBA's killed it. Very similar elements just simplified and more manageable for your average player.
This is so sad but true... T_T
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On May 03 2018 23:06 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 22:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 03 2018 12:27 Kare wrote:
I just wish that the gaming world cared more about RTS. 10 years ago RTS was HUGE with the giant bw scene in korea, wc3 was pretty big. SC2 came out and RTS continued to be super big in e-sports and gaming in general, but now it seems like RTS is a dying species.. I think MOBA's killed it. Very similar elements just simplified and more manageable for your average player. This is so sad but true... T_T
I think RTS games will always, at the very least, have a niche. Playing a MOBA isn't going to scratch that RTS itch that I have. Only things like StarCraft can deliver on the spectacle of large armies battling large armies. I can't get that experience from anything else other than from RTS games.
I think RTS games are mechanically challenging (not unlike fighting games) which might be a barrier of entry for a lot of people (possibly also not unlike fighting games).
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some stats. https://starlog.gg/en/gateway-status
iirc last time i checked it was 1-2 months ago and korea was at 16k peaks. so at peak they increased by 4k. All other gateways seems to stayed the same.
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On May 03 2018 10:17 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 06:05 Kare wrote:
Almost seems like it's shrinking in the west. If it weren't for peoples own initiative, generosity and donations, we wouldn't have anything to even play for. Have at you tournaments, BSL, pylon show, etc.. only things to do really. Starcraft 1 tournaments at places like dreamhack has died a long time ago because there are so few people that play, and the audience is also tiny.
I hope we get some sort of initiative from Blizzard or something soon, maybe it could light a spark in competitive western brood war scene. I'd love to have a western bw scene but honestly that is nearly impossible at this point. The level of play in the west is nowhere near the level required to justify a league or tournament. No one would watch unless it's a showmatch with old school bw celebs. Such events are unsustainable. It would be a huge mistake to try and revive something deader than dead. Even at the highest point of bw, the west was inconsequential. It was all Korea and that's okay. We can have a great amateur scene in the west, but keep all the pro stuff in Korea. I'd rather have blizz try to raise the next generation of Korean bw pros (we need new blood badly), than do anything for western scene.
Blizzard involvement in the Korean pro scene have only done insane damages as far as I remember.
The Korean scene can live and grow without Pixzard but that's not true for the west that without Pixzard support will never have a chance to grow.
You assume that BW is incompatible with the west but the reality is that mainstream e-sport has been introduced in the west like 7 years ago with newer games heavily financially supported by publishers and micro-transactions while BW never had the chance to prove itself because it has never been supported in any ways here in the west.
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Another big mistake of the western tournaments were to invite Korean pros/former pros.
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On May 04 2018 00:24 MarcoJ wrote:some stats. https://starlog.gg/en/gateway-statusiirc last time i checked it was 1-2 months ago and korea was at 16k peaks. so at peak they increased by 4k. All other gateways seems to stayed the same.
Would be nice to have stats by country
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On May 03 2018 22:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 12:27 Kare wrote:
I just wish that the gaming world cared more about RTS. 10 years ago RTS was HUGE with the giant bw scene in korea, wc3 was pretty big. SC2 came out and RTS continued to be super big in e-sports and gaming in general, but now it seems like RTS is a dying species.. I think MOBA's killed it. Very similar elements just simplified and more manageable for your average player.
Yeah I think so too.
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On May 04 2018 00:28 AntiHack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 10:17 Golgotha wrote:On May 03 2018 06:05 Kare wrote:
Almost seems like it's shrinking in the west. If it weren't for peoples own initiative, generosity and donations, we wouldn't have anything to even play for. Have at you tournaments, BSL, pylon show, etc.. only things to do really. Starcraft 1 tournaments at places like dreamhack has died a long time ago because there are so few people that play, and the audience is also tiny.
I hope we get some sort of initiative from Blizzard or something soon, maybe it could light a spark in competitive western brood war scene. I'd love to have a western bw scene but honestly that is nearly impossible at this point. The level of play in the west is nowhere near the level required to justify a league or tournament. No one would watch unless it's a showmatch with old school bw celebs. Such events are unsustainable. It would be a huge mistake to try and revive something deader than dead. Even at the highest point of bw, the west was inconsequential. It was all Korea and that's okay. We can have a great amateur scene in the west, but keep all the pro stuff in Korea. I'd rather have blizz try to raise the next generation of Korean bw pros (we need new blood badly), than do anything for western scene. Blizzard involvement in the Korean pro scene have only done insane damages as far as I remember. The Korean scene can live and grow without Pixzard but that's not true for the west that without Pixzard support will never have a chance to grow. You assume that BW is incompatible with the west but the reality is that mainstream e-sport has been introduced in the west like 7 years ago with newer games heavily financially supported by publishers and micro-transactions while BW never had the chance to prove itself because it has never been supported in any ways here in the west.
Is saying Pixzard cool now? Brood War was never supported? Pretty sure Foreigner had their fair share of WCG. Brood War was just never able to "outpopular" Warcraft 3 and 1.6 in the rest of the world. Which is actually happening again. And the Korean scene can live and grow without blizzard? When was this supposed to happen? Remastered was the spark korea needed.
The reason why western Remastered isnt happening because of complete shitfest reactions on tournaments. Basetrade tried. Remember when they didnt cast your way? Other tournaments had LastScan pitchfork action. It doesnt make for a worthwhile experience. You guys could have atleast tried to not have things 100% "Your Way". Didnt happen
User was warned for this post
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On May 04 2018 01:37 10dla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 00:28 AntiHack wrote:On May 03 2018 10:17 Golgotha wrote:On May 03 2018 06:05 Kare wrote:
Almost seems like it's shrinking in the west. If it weren't for peoples own initiative, generosity and donations, we wouldn't have anything to even play for. Have at you tournaments, BSL, pylon show, etc.. only things to do really. Starcraft 1 tournaments at places like dreamhack has died a long time ago because there are so few people that play, and the audience is also tiny.
I hope we get some sort of initiative from Blizzard or something soon, maybe it could light a spark in competitive western brood war scene. I'd love to have a western bw scene but honestly that is nearly impossible at this point. The level of play in the west is nowhere near the level required to justify a league or tournament. No one would watch unless it's a showmatch with old school bw celebs. Such events are unsustainable. It would be a huge mistake to try and revive something deader than dead. Even at the highest point of bw, the west was inconsequential. It was all Korea and that's okay. We can have a great amateur scene in the west, but keep all the pro stuff in Korea. I'd rather have blizz try to raise the next generation of Korean bw pros (we need new blood badly), than do anything for western scene. Blizzard involvement in the Korean pro scene have only done insane damages as far as I remember. The Korean scene can live and grow without Pixzard but that's not true for the west that without Pixzard support will never have a chance to grow. You assume that BW is incompatible with the west but the reality is that mainstream e-sport has been introduced in the west like 7 years ago with newer games heavily financially supported by publishers and micro-transactions while BW never had the chance to prove itself because it has never been supported in any ways here in the west. Is saying Pixzard cool now? Brood War was never supported? Pretty sure Foreigner had their fair share of WCG. Brood War was just never able to "outpopular" Warcraft 3 and 1.6 in the rest of the world. Which is actually happening again. And the Korean scene can live and grow without blizzard? When was this supposed to happen? Remastered was the spark korea needed. The reason why western Remastered isnt happening because of complete shitfest reactions on tournaments. Basetrade tried. Remember when they didnt cast your way? Other tournaments had LastScan pitchfork action. It doesnt make for a worthwhile experience. You guys could have atleast tried to not have things 100% "Your Way". Didnt happen
Comparing the WCG in a world where e-sport was just not a thing with Pixzard (Yes Pixzard) heavily supporting sc2 to the point of using it as a tool to introduce a cultural phenomenon to the west called e-sport? Then making it f2p and self sustainable via micro-transactions?
No need to read more. You really have no clue of what you're talking about and I assume that you wasn't even alive at WCG old days.
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On May 04 2018 02:18 AntiHack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 01:37 10dla wrote:On May 04 2018 00:28 AntiHack wrote:On May 03 2018 10:17 Golgotha wrote:On May 03 2018 06:05 Kare wrote:
Almost seems like it's shrinking in the west. If it weren't for peoples own initiative, generosity and donations, we wouldn't have anything to even play for. Have at you tournaments, BSL, pylon show, etc.. only things to do really. Starcraft 1 tournaments at places like dreamhack has died a long time ago because there are so few people that play, and the audience is also tiny.
I hope we get some sort of initiative from Blizzard or something soon, maybe it could light a spark in competitive western brood war scene. I'd love to have a western bw scene but honestly that is nearly impossible at this point. The level of play in the west is nowhere near the level required to justify a league or tournament. No one would watch unless it's a showmatch with old school bw celebs. Such events are unsustainable. It would be a huge mistake to try and revive something deader than dead. Even at the highest point of bw, the west was inconsequential. It was all Korea and that's okay. We can have a great amateur scene in the west, but keep all the pro stuff in Korea. I'd rather have blizz try to raise the next generation of Korean bw pros (we need new blood badly), than do anything for western scene. Blizzard involvement in the Korean pro scene have only done insane damages as far as I remember. The Korean scene can live and grow without Pixzard but that's not true for the west that without Pixzard support will never have a chance to grow. You assume that BW is incompatible with the west but the reality is that mainstream e-sport has been introduced in the west like 7 years ago with newer games heavily financially supported by publishers and micro-transactions while BW never had the chance to prove itself because it has never been supported in any ways here in the west. Is saying Pixzard cool now? Brood War was never supported? Pretty sure Foreigner had their fair share of WCG. Brood War was just never able to "outpopular" Warcraft 3 and 1.6 in the rest of the world. Which is actually happening again. And the Korean scene can live and grow without blizzard? When was this supposed to happen? Remastered was the spark korea needed. The reason why western Remastered isnt happening because of complete shitfest reactions on tournaments. Basetrade tried. Remember when they didnt cast your way? Other tournaments had LastScan pitchfork action. It doesnt make for a worthwhile experience. You guys could have atleast tried to not have things 100% "Your Way". Didnt happen Comparing the WCG in a world where e-sport was just not a thing with Pixzard (Yes Pixzard) heavily supporting sc2 to the point of using it as a tool to introduce a cultural phenomenon to the west called e-sport? Then making it f2p and self sustainable via micro-transactions? No need to read more. You really have no clue of what you're talking about and I assume that you wasn't even alive at WCG old days.
So Foreigner Brood War wasnt a thing because Blizzard pumped all the money into Warcraft 3? By the way: Nice comparison clusterfuck
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On May 04 2018 02:25 10dla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2018 02:18 AntiHack wrote:On May 04 2018 01:37 10dla wrote:On May 04 2018 00:28 AntiHack wrote:On May 03 2018 10:17 Golgotha wrote:On May 03 2018 06:05 Kare wrote:
Almost seems like it's shrinking in the west. If it weren't for peoples own initiative, generosity and donations, we wouldn't have anything to even play for. Have at you tournaments, BSL, pylon show, etc.. only things to do really. Starcraft 1 tournaments at places like dreamhack has died a long time ago because there are so few people that play, and the audience is also tiny.
I hope we get some sort of initiative from Blizzard or something soon, maybe it could light a spark in competitive western brood war scene. I'd love to have a western bw scene but honestly that is nearly impossible at this point. The level of play in the west is nowhere near the level required to justify a league or tournament. No one would watch unless it's a showmatch with old school bw celebs. Such events are unsustainable. It would be a huge mistake to try and revive something deader than dead. Even at the highest point of bw, the west was inconsequential. It was all Korea and that's okay. We can have a great amateur scene in the west, but keep all the pro stuff in Korea. I'd rather have blizz try to raise the next generation of Korean bw pros (we need new blood badly), than do anything for western scene. Blizzard involvement in the Korean pro scene have only done insane damages as far as I remember. The Korean scene can live and grow without Pixzard but that's not true for the west that without Pixzard support will never have a chance to grow. You assume that BW is incompatible with the west but the reality is that mainstream e-sport has been introduced in the west like 7 years ago with newer games heavily financially supported by publishers and micro-transactions while BW never had the chance to prove itself because it has never been supported in any ways here in the west. Is saying Pixzard cool now? Brood War was never supported? Pretty sure Foreigner had their fair share of WCG. Brood War was just never able to "outpopular" Warcraft 3 and 1.6 in the rest of the world. Which is actually happening again. And the Korean scene can live and grow without blizzard? When was this supposed to happen? Remastered was the spark korea needed. The reason why western Remastered isnt happening because of complete shitfest reactions on tournaments. Basetrade tried. Remember when they didnt cast your way? Other tournaments had LastScan pitchfork action. It doesnt make for a worthwhile experience. You guys could have atleast tried to not have things 100% "Your Way". Didnt happen Comparing the WCG in a world where e-sport was just not a thing with Pixzard (Yes Pixzard) heavily supporting sc2 to the point of using it as a tool to introduce a cultural phenomenon to the west called e-sport? Then making it f2p and self sustainable via micro-transactions? No need to read more. You really have no clue of what you're talking about and I assume that you wasn't even alive at WCG old days. So Foreigner Brood War wasnt a thing because Blizzard pumped all the money into Warcraft 3? By the way: Nice comparison clusterfuck
WC3 was just a newer 3D game in a world with no e-sport and that's my last reply to you. Have a nice day.
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I was warned because i posted "facts"? Does that mean Brood War was more popular than Warcraft 3 and 1.6 outside of korea? First WCG was 2000, 2 years before Warcraft 3, Foreigners are present. Looks quite E-sports to me  WCG Challenge 2000
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EPT
