On March 06 2014 10:22 Nyxisto wrote: Well it's actually pretty straight forward. Russia feels threatened by the trade agreement because it's just another example that the West is gaining influence over ex Soviet states, so they strong-arm them out of it.
Thing is that the West is not getting closer because they're actively pushing for it(which would be a legitimate reason for Russia to be concerned) , Russia's influence is crumbling simply because the country pretty much sucks.Europe gives the Eastern - European countries the chance to prosper over the long term and Russia simply can't compete, so now they're pulling out the guns.
If Russia wants more influence, fine. Then they should get rid of their corruption, act like a democratic country and even the EU would happily cooperate. But the way they're acting right now has no future.
A post-collapse country cannot be expected to operate like Norway. Most of Russia's problems stem from the catastrophic 1990s. Things are steadily improving in most regards, but the corruption and financial elite have already solidified their position (these people arose from the 90s' chaos, in fact), much like the corporate elite have established a position of great power in countries like USA and the godly conglomerates in ROK and Japan. You can't get rid of things that have huge influence and standing in a country.
In addition, the EU would never happily cooperate with a resurging Russia. The more power Russia has, the worse and more worrisome it is for EU countries and the United States. This is EXACTLY what the US is against for obvious reasons of its own political interests. There can never be solid, honest, bilateral political 'cooperation' so long as Russia is in a position of [growing] power.
Also, influence has little to do with a country being straight out of Moore's Utopia or not. It has to do with in what ways and to what degree they can assert their power.
Can you please grow out of this we-vs-them mentality?
I am just stating the mentality that the parties involved have. I don't have such a mentality lol. The Ukrainian situation is a tug-of-war between US and Russia. Neither country cares very much about Ukraine or Ukrainian, just about spheres of influence. Actually, given very deep cultural and historical ties, maybe Russia actually cares about people there a little haha. How it has stood since Russia became a recognizably functional country again is that the EU is at ends with Russia and Russian interests in Europe. There is some tension and coldness, as is seen right now. That's the way it is, not some "mentality" I have LOL
On March 06 2014 10:22 Nyxisto wrote: Well it's actually pretty straight forward. Russia feels threatened by the trade agreement because it's just another example that the West is gaining influence over ex Soviet states, so they strong-arm them out of it.
Thing is that the West is not getting closer because they're actively pushing for it(which would be a legitimate reason for Russia to be concerned) , Russia's influence is crumbling simply because the country pretty much sucks.Europe gives the Eastern - European countries the chance to prosper over the long term and Russia simply can't compete, so now they're pulling out the guns.
If Russia wants more influence, fine. Then they should get rid of their corruption, act like a democratic country and even the EU would happily cooperate. But the way they're acting right now has no future.
In addition, the EU would never happily cooperate with a resurging Russia. The more power Russia has, the worse and more worrisome it is for EU countries and the United States. This is EXACTLY what the US is against for obvious reasons of its own political interests. There can never be solid, honest, bilateral political 'cooperation' so long as Russia is in a position of [growing] power.
You realize that people in Britain and France used to say exactly the same thing about Germany, right? I agree that russia needs change pretty badly though.
Your realize that Germany was conquered and bent to our will, right? That's what made things change hehe. Completely different scenario.
In addition, the EU would never happily cooperate with a resurging Russia. The more power Russia has, the worse and more worrisome it is for EU countries and the United States. This is EXACTLY what the US is against for obvious reasons of its own political interests. There can never be solid, honest, bilateral political 'cooperation' so long as Russia is in a position of [growing] power.
And why would the EU never happily cooperate with a resurgent Russia? You give plenty of clues to the answer but can't quite seem to say it openly.
There are plenty of countries that the Allies couldn't happily cooperate with barely 3-4 generations ago that they happily cooperates with now. And that's what this, the old Allies still sticking together and Russia is still the Ally who never bought into it and dipped out at first opportunity.
Things changed drastically. Old Russia used to be close allies with various western European countries. Communism and Post-WW2 era changed things around from 3-4 generations ago, in a manner similar with the case of the countries we couldn't cooperate with 3-4 generations ago, but that we can cooperate with now. Things change, but for the foreseeable future, the situation between Russia and some western Euro countries and the US will remain the same.
the most recent edition of “Vesti Nedeli,” Russia’s most popular evening news program, a sober-voiced announcer broke it down into very simple terms. “Experts,” he intoned, “are more and more comparing the actions of these nationalists with those who came to power in Germany in the 1930s.”
“If you watch some of the shows that go on during the day, it’s harkening back to the heroic deeds of the Soviet Army, liberating the Crimea and Sevastopol,” said Vladimir V. Pozner, host of a political talk show on Channel One. “You begin to be very antsy — is this the buildup to something else? Is this not preparing the population for what ultimately will be the use of force?”
There have, however, been some challenges to the Kremlin’s depiction of the on-the-ground realities, especially in Crimea.
On Sunday, the Presidential Council on Civil Society and Human Rights, a group that advises the Kremlin, released a statement signed by 27 of its members describing government reports of attacks on civilians in Crimea — the main pretext for Russian intervention — as “unreliable and exaggerated,” based on reporting done by two members who traveled to Crimea.
Russia’s three large channels are headed by executives who meet regularly with Kremlin officials, and they have been deeply engaged in promoting Mr. Putin’s agenda since he returned to the presidency in 2012.
Often, they employ ominous soundtracks and wild hyperbole; during Mr. Putin’s 2011 election campaign, one documentary used starving African refugees to illustrate Russia’s condition before he came to power. When Mr. Putin decided to ban the adoption of Russian children by Americans, one news channel broadcast footage of a woman from Alaska who disciplined a child by forcing him to drink hot sauce.
Sunday’s “Vesti Nedeli” was largely an indictment of the United States and its allies. It lingered on the seared, curled bodies of people killed during NATO’s bombing of Belgrade in 1999, and quoted the words of the former Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic, who, before he died of a heart attack in his prison cell, warned his fellow Slavs to isolate themselves from the West: “Look at us, and remember they will do the same thing to you when you show weakness and go to pieces.”
Irek Murtazin, a Russian blogger, took umbrage when a state newspaper reported that the upper house of Parliament had “unanimously” approved the use of military force in Ukraine, publishing screen shots that showed that only 90 of the body’s 166 members had voted. “It is a sign that the Russian elite is not as monolithic as it is presented to us,”
Any quote by that butcher condemning anything is a mark in said anythings favor.
Yes, but like I've mentioned before it seems pretty clear that there is a parallel information universe out there where Slobodan Milosevic is a hero and the West are supporting the coming genocide of Russians, which is quite worrying: if the leadership really believes it, no wonder they are this paranoid but even if it they are just cynically exploiting it then it narrows their positions -- how can you make a deal with fascists who want to destroy holy mother Russia?
Hillary Clinton raised some eyebrows Tuesday by comparing Russia's incursion into Ukraine to the early days of Nazi Germany's expansion. But she's got plenty of company. Not only did Sens. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) make similar comments; in fact, comparing Putin to Hitler has been going on since the Russia-Georgia crisis of 2008.
In testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, Gen. Martin Dempsey, said his Russian counterpart told him Wednesday that the troops in Crimea “were not regular forces. They were well-trained militia forces responding to threats to ethnic Russians in the Crimea.”
I know this would escalate things and so isnt a great idea but I think it would be pretty funny if suddenly a 'Ukrainian milita responding to threats to ethnic Ukrainians and Tatars in the Crimea" were to show up...riding Abrams tanks and geared up in latest NATO gear. Also, for convenience sake they would all speak English and some of them would be the famous African-Ukrainians and Hipanic-Ukrainians you always hear about. But you know, without any military insignia so obviously, local militia.
I guess the strangest thing ever would be if that carrier strike group showed up in the Black sea under Ukrainian flag. They could actually defect to the Ukrainian side right? So that makes it ok.
Nah man, we totally Ukrainian, we got a flag and everything. Plausible deniability ftw.
Earlier in the week, the commander of the Russian Black Sea fleet, Adm. Alexander Vitko, visited Ukraine’s South Base, according to the deputy base commander, Capt. Viktor Shmiganovsky. “He asked me to invite all the officers and suggested that we collectively take up the Russian military allegiance oath and become part of the Black Sea fleet … promising good pay and a bright future,” Shmiganovsky said in an interview. “He insisted we do that to help protect Ukraine from extremist gangs.”
The officer said his boss, the base commander, retorted: “Comrade admiral, we didn't see any extremist gangs here until you came with your men.” He said the admiral left “in a rage.”
I hope all Ukrainian Armed Forces guys in Crimea will get Heroes of Ukraine medals when this crisis is over. Especially considering the fact that such a high proportion of them are -- especially in the Navy -- Russians or Russian speakers.
The top diplomats of Russia and the U.S. agreed at their meeting on Wednesday that they should help Ukraine to implement an EU-brokered reconciliation deal, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said.
"We have agreed that Ukrainians need assistance to implement the February 21 accord," Lavrov said Wednesday.
However, a senior U.S. State Department official has denied that any such agreement took place.
"There were no agreements in this meeting, and there never will be without direct Ukrainian government involvement and absolute buy-in," the official said, Reuters reported Wednesday.
Lavrov met with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry in Paris before heading to a meeting with top diplomats of France, Germany and Poland, who mediated the signing of the reconciliation agreement between the government and the opposition and put their signatures under it.
The agreement announced early presidential and parliamentary elections, a national unity government and a return to an earlier constitution. It would have allowed the erstwhile pro-Russia government to remain in power until early elections.
Ukraine's ousted President Viktor Yanukovych was impeached by the parliament a day after the agreement was signed, enabling the opposition to take control and appoint interim leadership.
Russia has since accused Ukraine's new leaders, whom it considers illegitimate, of violating the deal.
Lavrov criticized Western countries for taking measures that "undermine dialog and cooperation" between various political forces in Ukraine.
Some of these measures have been taken within the framework of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe and the Russia-NATO council, the Russian foreign minister said.
OSCE said Wednesday that it would send 35 unarmed military personnel to Ukraine to dispel concerns about "unusual military activities" in the south of the country.
Putin is likely to retain control of Crimea because Ukraine does not have the might to confront Russia on its own - and because the West is unwilling to take strong decisive action against the intervention. "The calculation is to create a sort of area… of instability to control [the] Ukrainian government, and [Putin's] going to get that."
Sutyagin adds that another benefit for Russia is that Ukraine would be unable to join NATO, because under the military alliance's rules, a country cannot become a member if it is involved in a territorial dispute.
However, it has not been a complete success for Russia. Television footage showed soldiers believed to be Russian firing warning shots as unarmed Ukrainian troops walked towards them. "Ukraine has already won a very important moral victory because they have shown they are not frightened, while the Russians have shown they are frightened,"
Putin is likely to retain control of Crimea because Ukraine does not have the might to confront Russia on its own - and because the West is unwilling to take strong decisive action against the intervention. "The calculation is to create a sort of area… of instability to control [the] Ukrainian government, and [Putin's] going to get that."
Sutyagin adds that another benefit for Russia is that Ukraine would be unable to join NATO, because under the military alliance's rules, a country cannot become a member if it is involved in a territorial dispute.
However, it has not been a complete success for Russia. Television footage showed soldiers believed to be Russian firing warning shots as unarmed Ukrainian troops walked towards them. "Ukraine has already won a very important moral victory because they have shown they are not frightened, while the Russians have shown they are frightened,"
Very strange interpretation, not shooting unarmed soldiers = you are frightened.
On March 06 2014 14:20 Dwayn wrote: Has someone posted this already? RT anchor resigning live on air.
Found it interesting. If putins propaganda machine breaks down he has a serious problem. (Don't think it's gonna happen though.)
yeah, I read this few hours earlier. She should be rather strong to do this in live-broadcast. And I hope its her own position. She is cute. But after this case pretty tv-presenter was invited in Crimea to watch by her own eyes. She rejected ((
Putin is likely to retain control of Crimea because Ukraine does not have the might to confront Russia on its own - and because the West is unwilling to take strong decisive action against the intervention. "The calculation is to create a sort of area… of instability to control [the] Ukrainian government, and [Putin's] going to get that."
Sutyagin adds that another benefit for Russia is that Ukraine would be unable to join NATO, because under the military alliance's rules, a country cannot become a member if it is involved in a territorial dispute.
However, it has not been a complete success for Russia. Television footage showed soldiers believed to be Russian firing warning shots as unarmed Ukrainian troops walked towards them. "Ukraine has already won a very important moral victory because they have shown they are not frightened, while the Russians have shown they are frightened,"
Very strange interpretation, not shooting unarmed soldiers = you are frightened.
I think he is talking about the interpretation that Russia had to deploy special forces all over Crimea, I mean 'local self defense units', in reaction to the crisis and try to set up a quisling regime there while unarmed Ukrainian Army soldiers -- of Russian ethnicity or language preference -- are prepared to march into live fire to demonstrate they stand with united Ukraine.
Found it interesting. If putins propaganda machine breaks down he has a serious problem. (Don't think it's gonna happen though.)
yeah, I read this few hours earlier. She should be rather strong to do this in live-broadcast. And I hope its her own position. She is cute. But after this case pretty tv-presenter was invited in Crimea to watch by her own eyes. She rejected ((
Found it interesting. If putins propaganda machine breaks down he has a serious problem. (Don't think it's gonna happen though.)
yeah, I read this few hours earlier. She should be rather strong to do this in live-broadcast. And I hope its her own position. She is cute. But after this case pretty tv-presenter was invited in Crimea to watch by her own eyes. She rejected ((
The top diplomats of Russia and the U.S. agreed at their meeting on Wednesday that they should help Ukraine to implement an EU-brokered reconciliation deal, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said.
"We have agreed that Ukrainians need assistance to implement the February 21 accord," Lavrov said Wednesday.
However, a senior U.S. State Department official has denied that any such agreement took place.
"There were no agreements in this meeting, and there never will be without direct Ukrainian government involvement and absolute buy-in," the official said, Reuters reported Wednesday.
Lavrov met with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry in Paris before heading to a meeting with top diplomats of France, Germany and Poland, who mediated the signing of the reconciliation agreement between the government and the opposition and put their signatures under it.
The agreement announced early presidential and parliamentary elections, a national unity government and a return to an earlier constitution. It would have allowed the erstwhile pro-Russia government to remain in power until early elections.
Ukraine's ousted President Viktor Yanukovych was impeached by the parliament a day after the agreement was signed, enabling the opposition to take control and appoint interim leadership.
Russia has since accused Ukraine's new leaders, whom it considers illegitimate, of violating the deal.
Lavrov criticized Western countries for taking measures that "undermine dialog and cooperation" between various political forces in Ukraine.
Some of these measures have been taken within the framework of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe and the Russia-NATO council, the Russian foreign minister said.
OSCE said Wednesday that it would send 35 unarmed military personnel to Ukraine to dispel concerns about "unusual military activities" in the south of the country.
And now Russia moves on to pulling shit out of where the sun don't shine. I'm starting to think the Putin had a mental breakdown theory has some sense to it. Not in the lost ability to function, but in the paranoid delusion kind of thing thats everyones worst nightmare for a autocratic world leader to come down with.
It says the decision focuses on the “freezing and recovery of assets of persons identified as responsible for the misappropriation of Ukrainian state funds and persons responsible for human rights violations, with a view to consolidating and supporting the rule of law and respect for human rights in Ukraine”.
Russia’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, has reportedly said the country is simplifying the system whereby native Russian-speaking foreigners living in former Russian or USSR territory – this would, of course, include Ukraine – can get Russian citizenship.
Reuters cites Russia’s Interfax news agency as quoting him thus:
We are taking another step in this direction, we are discussing a draft federal law to simplify obtaining citizenship of the Russian Federation for foreign citizens or stateless persons who are recognised as native Russian speakers.
So they are going to undo Putin's citizenship law of 2002 that undid the 1999 citizenship law that already allowed people to get Russian citizenship by proving that they were ex-Soviet citizens? priorities!
Александр Пожалов из близкого к Кремлю Института социально-экономических и политических исследований объясняет рост рейтинга президента откликом россиян на успех Олимпиады. Год начался с положительной для власти повестки в целом, в феврале вырос и рейтинг «Единой России». В ближайшие недели можно ждать продолжения роста за счет эффекта от событий в Крыму, полагает Пожалов, симпатии населения добавит и жесткая полемика с США.
Эффект от украинских событий уже проявился, считает политолог Евгений Минченко: картинка украинского хаоса, умело поданная провластными российскими СМИ, выгодным образом подчеркнула пресловутую путинскую стабильность.
Translation: Putin's increased support comes from the Olympics and the effect of the Ukrainian situation, combined the stability of Russia compared to chaos of Ukraine. In the coming weeks, pro-Kremlin think tank, believes that the 'harsh polemic of the USA' will cause the rating to increase further.
Ukraine could easily become a radicalized, anti-Russian state, at which point Kiev will fabricate a pretext to justify taking subversive action against Moscow. This looks especially likely considering that ruling coalition members from the neo-fascist Svoboda and Right Sector parties have already made territorial claims against Russia. They could easily send their army of activists to Russia to join local separatists and foment rebellion in the North Caucasus and other unstable regions in Russia. In addition, Russia's opposition movement will surely want to use the successful experience and technology of the Euromaidan protests and, with the help and financial support of the West, try to carry out their own revolution in Moscow. The goal: to remove President Vladimir Putin from power and install a puppet leadership that will sell Russia's strategic interests out to the West in the same way former President Boris Yeltsin did in the 1990s.
Putin made the right decision: He did not to wait for that attack and took preventative measures. Many in the West say the Kremlin's reactions were paranoiac, but Germany's Jews also thought the same of leaving the country in 1934. Most of them chose to believe they were safe and remained in Germany even after Hitler came to power. The infamous Kristallnacht took place five years later, one of the first early chapters in the "Final Solution." Similarly, just four years remain until Russia's presidential election in 2018, and there is a strong risk that subversive forces within and outside Russia will try to overthrow Putin, in part using their new foothold in Ukraine.
09:02: The US Congress is rushing to impose hard-hitting sanctions against Russia in response to its takeover of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula, hoping Europe will follow their lead, AP reports. It says that the American sanctions push represents a rare case of broad agreement among the Obama administration and Democrats and Republicans in both houses of Congress. But they are also united in their concern that American economic penalties will mean little without the participation of European countries with far deeper commercial relations with Russia.
I actually hope Putin wins the Noble Prize. He managed to unite Eastern and Western Ukrainians and also Republicans and Democrats.
EPT
