EPTAnd no, I am not objectifying women, I just actually enjoy their appearance and sounds more than men. I'm allowed to have a preference.
Where are the female casters? - Page 8
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NightOne
Canada215 Posts
And no, I am not objectifying women, I just actually enjoy their appearance and sounds more than men. I'm allowed to have a preference. | ||
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Maindi
Finland104 Posts
On July 29 2013 03:43 DeathProfessor wrote: I would love Blizzard taking a chance on a female caster for WCS, they have a capability to be more personable than males, they could make casting more warm and friendly. My dream is that SOE cast! Please do it SOE! Huh? What do you mean with that? | ||
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w.s
Sweden850 Posts
On July 28 2013 18:46 Quincel wrote: Morning all, I've just been watching some BasetradeTV streaming of the Masters Cup, and I suddenly realised that something was different. For the first time I can remember the casting duo was one man and one woman. Now I'm not a super-fan, I don't watch that many streams, but I do watch a good 10 or so hours of SC each week and I catch most of the premier level events. So the fact that I haven't noticed a single female caster seems odd and concerning to me, I certainly couldn't name one even if I have heard them (unlike the 10 or so male casters I could name with ease, the big names in eSports). Now we know that gaming tends to be male dominated, other than Scarlett and Maddelisk there is almost no-one without a Y chromosome at big tournaments*, but figures also show that there aren't that many more male gamers than women overall**. So put simply, where are the women in eSports, and where are the female casters more specifically? I want to be very clear, I'm not accusing anyone or everyone of latent sexism. I honestly don't know the answer to this. I've seen a few comments about this issue in other threads recently, so I thought I'd make a topic and see if people had any ideas. Where are the female casters, and (if necessary) how would we go about finding more of them? (*Technically this is incorrect, as I've just discovered. Apologies if my choice of shorthand was inappropriate.) (**see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games#Female_gamers_as_a_demographic) Scarlett has a Y chromosome though, technically. ontopic: We did have female casters in sc2, but they were "bullied" out by the community. For example we had kellymilkies, and the amount of HARSH criticism she endured was severe so it doesn't surprise me that we don't have more female casters. In dota there is sheever, but she also receives heavy critique. I kind of like sheever though since she tries to be popular not through being female but through being good(which can be argued about if she is or not.) unlike kellymilkies that did a lingerie photoshoot and what not. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Edit: He edited, maybe honest mistake :O | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On July 29 2013 01:31 BisuDagger wrote: We have zombiegrub and she's awesome. This! The pragmatic answer to the question of the OP is that it's a numbers game, and while there is obvious sexism latent or otherwise in this and other gaming communities, I wouldn't say that is the leading factor here, and it is not nearly universal within those communities. I can't think of a single high-profile production team from the SC2 community that would pass up a qualified and talented female caster due to overt sexism. (This is just a passing guess of course based on my own impressions.) Personally I am dissatisfied by most casters' game knowledge anyway (or at least their presentation in the form of proclamations), so I say fuck it and I'd rather have fun people who are passionate and well-spoken with some respectable level of game knowledge who just call the basics and the maybes, since true expertise is very scarce. On July 29 2013 03:56 MyXoMoPBL wrote: Scarlett has a Y chromosome though, technically. ontopic: We did have female casters in sc2, but they were "bullied" out by the community. For example we had kellymilkies, and the amount of HARSH criticism she endured was severe so it doesn't surprise me that we don't have more female casters. In dota there is sheever, but she also receives heavy critique. I kind of like sheever though since she tries to be popular not through being female but through being good(which can be argued about if she is or not.) unlike kellymilkies that did a lingerie photoshoot and what not. You realize that this is overt sexism? What does it matter what someone chooses to wear? | ||
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Stress
United States980 Posts
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
I'm curious as well, doesn't seem to have much merit to me. | ||
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Ry2D2
United States429 Posts
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Ry2D2
United States429 Posts
On July 29 2013 03:43 DeathProfessor wrote: I would love Blizzard taking a chance on a female caster for WCS, they have a capability to be more personable than males, they could make casting more warm and friendly. My dream is that SOE cast! Please do it SOE! Actually, didn't soe cast WCS some last year with Grubby and Kaelaris? Not hte finals anywhere but the national events that they went all over doing. | ||
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Honner
United Kingdom65 Posts
On July 28 2013 19:04 Quincel wrote: In soccer there's Gabby Logan. In tennis Sue Barker, Lindsay Davenport and a couple of others. Being a Brit I don't know about NFL or NBA, and I agree that most sports have more male commentators than women, but the complete lack of any prominent women casting major events seems odd. Also, while we're on the topic, the most prominent horse racing commentator/pundit in the UK is probably Claire Balding. Gabby Logan and Sue Barker are presenters / studio hosts on their respective football and tennis programmes (interviewing players post-match and generally joining up the various parts of the show), they are not match commentators. If you want an equivalent in starcraft 2, I'm pretty sure Anna Prosser/Robinson and Rachel Seltzer have both been host (hostess?) at various starcraft 2 events in the past. Male dominated sports generally have male dominated commentary also, again because many commentators are ex-professional players (both in starcraft and in other sports) and therefore have the expertise to talk about matches in a way pleasing to their audiences. Until you have more women competing at a competitive level in SC2, I wouldn't expect to see a higher number of women commentators. | ||
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w.s
Sweden850 Posts
On July 29 2013 03:59 EatThePath wrote: This! The pragmatic answer to the question of the OP is that it's a numbers game, and while there is obvious sexism latent or otherwise in this and other gaming communities, I wouldn't say that is the leading factor here, and it is not nearly universal within those communities. I can't think of a single high-profile production team from the SC2 community that would pass up a qualified and talented female caster due to overt sexism. (This is just a passing guess of course based on my own impressions.) Personally I am dissatisfied by most casters' game knowledge anyway (or at least their presentation in the form of proclamations), so I say fuck it and I'd rather have fun people who are passionate and well-spoken with some respectable level of game knowledge who just call the basics and the maybes, since true expertise is very scarce. You realize that this is overt sexism? What does it matter what someone chooses to wear? It doesn't to you, but it's obvious a community will judge the person based on what they wear. They are figure heads and if they choose to do certain stuff such as dress in lingerie then it's obvious it will have negative or positive effects, even though you in particular are not sexist? The community will always look for negative points to bring up and we've had witch hunts for far less than dressing in lingerie, and it's not like I'm sexist; this has already happened and you don't see kellymilkies around casting do you? Not saying it was due to the photoshoot but her casting being disliked in general, but the photoshoot sure fueled the haters further. | ||
OpTiKAiTech
United States65 Posts
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bigbadgreen
United States142 Posts
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
The answer is: Men and women are different. Deal with it. Everyone with a normal social life and serious relationship experience will agree with me. So men and women have different interests (by trend). And women just don't have the drive to give up their lives and become the best in a strategy game. That's it. I'm not saying they are worse than men. Thats mostly bs. But they have less interest in strategy games and a different self-perception, so less the drive to show everyone they are the best. And that's the requirement to get to the top in SC2. In other games you can see a growing number of female players, such as RPGs, MMOs, even Shooters and Mobas. So women also like games´, sure. But not the hardcore strategy games (another example: chess). And even if there are some good female players, they just don't have the drive to give up their life to become *the best*. They want to persuate different goals in life than the normal male nerd. And no high tier players = no casters. As easy as that. It's not about better and worse, it's about *different* Cheers. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
 Also found a video with LilSusie and TossGirl because TossGirl. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On July 29 2013 04:33 MyXoMoPBL wrote: It doesn't to you, but it's obvious a community will judge the person based on what they wear. They are figure heads and if they choose to do certain stuff such as dress in lingerie then it's obvious it will have negative or positive effects, even though you in particular are not sexist? The community will always look for negative points to bring up and we've had witch hunts for far less than dressing in lingerie, and it's not like I'm sexist; this has already happened and you don't see kellymilkies around casting do you? Not saying it was due to the photoshoot but her casting being disliked in general, but the photoshoot sure fueled the haters further. What you wrote specifically implied that kellymilkies intentionally tried to prove her worth by posing in sexy photos as opposed to mastering the game, when the two are not related. I understand what you apparently meant to say but it could have been phrased much better. On July 29 2013 04:52 Caladan wrote: The answer is simple, and has nothing to do with sexism. Cheers. To say this is to paper over a serious social problem. While it might not be at the forefront for the particular question under consideration, absolutist denial is delusional and possibly harmful. | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
Now replace men with women and Just Bieber with starcraft (tournaments) and you should see why OP's argument just doesn't fly. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On July 29 2013 04:58 EatThePath wrote: To say this is to paper over a serious social problem. While it might not be at the forefront for the particular question under consideration, absolutist denial is delusional and possibly harmful. How is women not being interested in eSports (by and large, blahblahblah) "a serious social problem"? What? | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On July 29 2013 04:58 EatThePath wrote: What you wrote specifically implied that kellymilkies intentionally tried to prove her worth by posing in sexy photos as opposed to mastering the game, when the two are not related. I understand what you apparently meant to say but it could have been phrased much better. To say this is to paper over a serious social problem. While it might not be at the forefront for the particular question under consideration, absolutist denial is delusional and possibly harmful. Gender discrimination is a minor thing at best; most females simply don't want to be involved in something like hardcore competitive gaming because they are literally biologically not inclined towards competitive gaming. Females in general are just not competitive; it's a fact. Why else do you think men aggressively pursue high level jobs like CEO positions? It's not because there is any real intellectual/skill difference between men and women; it's because there's just simply a biological difference between the two. And no, I didn't make this shit up. Various studies prove that women tend to shy away from competition in general, which of course means that most women don't really like playing competitive games, and would rather play social type games. Why else do you think games like World of Warcraft, Non-Ranked League of Legends, and other MMOs/social games are so popular among women? For those who don't believe me, here's a study of competition and gender and how the two are related. http://www.stanford.edu/~niederle/NV.AnnualReview.Print.pdf Yes, women will have to deal with some gender discrimination when you enter into a male dominant territory. It comes with the profession/job; it's bad, but that's just how it is, especially if you join a community that is predominantly made up of males that are anywhere from the ages of 15-30. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On July 29 2013 05:08 FuzzyJAM wrote: How is women not being interested in eSports (by and large, blahblahblah) "a serious social problem"? What? Right. What? I said denying it has anything to do with sexism is delusional. I didn't say what you thought I said, at all. + Show Spoiler + To anyone who wants to pick a fight with me, I'd rather not because it doesn't contribute much to the thread imo. If you think I'm a complete bonehead, please double check in a PM first. @startran: I'm more or less with you (and the guy above who I originally cautioned) about sex/gender differences. I'm mostly commenting on discourse. As you can see there are lots of uninformed people ready to jump at propositions antagonizing them that aren't being offered. | ||
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