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On July 29 2013 06:31 dinosrwar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 05:17 Chinnro wrote:On July 29 2013 05:05 SlixSC wrote:
Maybe we should force more men to go to Justin Bieber concerts because clearly, there is a disproportionate amount of females there. Which is clearly the result of men being oppressed by the Justin Bieber Fancommunity and not just the result of men not giving a crap about Justin Bieber.
Now replace men with women and Just Bieber with starcraft (tournaments) and you should see why OP's argument just doesn't fly. Precisely! Touche'. Best comment so far. Ragnarork - this is all we're trying to say. Its got nothing to do with sexism or gender. Its a simple numbers game...so keep calm and carry on. BTW, Tara Babcock isn't helping the womens movement in esports, just saying. That's a strawman argument and doesn't address anything of note. If you were a guy and wanted to go to a Bieber concert, no one's going to stop you. If you're a girl and get involved in Starcraft, more than likely you will be harassed. The thing with Starcraft is that there are many women who like to play / watch, but the sexism in the community often overshadows them and makes it difficult for them to break into casting / hosting jobs. The community reactions whenever Selzter or Anna, or Scarlett/Aphrodite/Eve, whoever comes up in discussion veers off on a sexist tangent that doesn't happen when the person in question is a guy.
Smells like bullshit to me. If you were an older dude showing up to a Justin Beiber concert, you better be with a friend/girlfriend/daughter/sister/etc. or people are going to think you're some weird ass dude trying to creep on girls between the ages of 12-18ish. If you don't match the general demographic of the area, you're going to get more attention, negative/positive it doesn't matter. It comes with the territory, and if you can't handle it, well too bad, world sucks and it is unfair. I am all for being treated equally, but sometimes common sense dictates that if you're doing shit that may seem out of place, you cannot fault people for giving you extra attention.
It's the same thing in E-Sports. If you are a female that is pretty good at what she does, you're going to get extra attention. Scarlett for example is an excellent player, but by far gets way more attention than alot of players just as good as she is just because she is a female and she is able to compete vs some elite level competition.
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On July 29 2013 07:19 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 06:31 dinosrwar wrote:On July 29 2013 05:17 Chinnro wrote:On July 29 2013 05:05 SlixSC wrote:
Maybe we should force more men to go to Justin Bieber concerts because clearly, there is a disproportionate amount of females there. Which is clearly the result of men being oppressed by the Justin Bieber Fancommunity and not just the result of men not giving a crap about Justin Bieber.
Now replace men with women and Just Bieber with starcraft (tournaments) and you should see why OP's argument just doesn't fly. Precisely! Touche'. Best comment so far. Ragnarork - this is all we're trying to say. Its got nothing to do with sexism or gender. Its a simple numbers game...so keep calm and carry on. BTW, Tara Babcock isn't helping the womens movement in esports, just saying. That's a strawman argument and doesn't address anything of note. If you were a guy and wanted to go to a Bieber concert, no one's going to stop you. If you're a girl and get involved in Starcraft, more than likely you will be harassed. The thing with Starcraft is that there are many women who like to play / watch, but the sexism in the community often overshadows them and makes it difficult for them to break into casting / hosting jobs. The community reactions whenever Selzter or Anna, or Scarlett/Aphrodite/Eve, whoever comes up in discussion veers off on a sexist tangent that doesn't happen when the person in question is a guy. Riddle me this. If women have it so much harder than men, how come that Rachel or Smix got invited to host one of the biggest tournaments in the scene, over many, many males. Look at someone like Nathanias or Chanman, these guys are putting alot more work and they aren't half as famous as either of the two. Nathanias has casted 1 big tournament despite working, sometimes, 12 hours a day or even more than that. Look at Tara Babcock, she's in Gold or Platinum league and sometimes gets 2000 concurrent viewers on her stream, name a single player (with perhaps the exception of TB) who gets that many viewers who is not top grandmaster or a top personality such as Artosis. Right, there is nobody. If you are willing to reap the benefits of being female and be more popular than any male who has put in the same amount of effort as you, you better be prepared to accept that there will be jealousy. It is actually incredibly easy for female starcraft players to get a job in this industry or have a large viewer base, much easier than it is for any male. So can we stop this bullshit? Look at Anna, Rachel, Smix, Tara Babcock, etc... let's not delude ourselves into thinking that they somehow bring more to the table than many of the males (which are a vast majority in SC2) who are trying to do the same thing or applying for the same jobs. It is so dishonest to argue that women have it harder in this industry, because the few who actually tried, made it with alot less effort than some of the people who worked their asses off to get to where they are now (Artosis, chanman, Nathanias, to name a few) and who took alot more risks and some of these male personalities such as Nathanias or Chanman, are still less popular than Anna or Rachel, despite putting in alot more effort.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I completely agree. In addition, I can't stand all the white knighting that goes on in this community (and every male dominated community in anything) once women get involved. People go on Tara Babcock's stream and say shit like "nice tits," or "ur hot," and other BS that any moderately attractive woman hears 100 times a day. You're not original by saying that crap!
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On July 29 2013 00:18 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 00:14 nimbim wrote:
I think any woman who follows ESPORTS will have noticed how kellyMILKIES was attacked in this community, back when she casted GSL. Yes, she wasn't a GSL level caster, but the shitstorm she received was insane, much worse than Moletrap, who wasn't liked by any more people than her, but he didn't pose for the playboy (or some similar magazine).
Having Seltzer as a hostess is already incredible, she must have one of the thickest skins in all of ESPORTS. I doubt another woman will want to be a caster in this community. She didn't pose for some nudie mag. She posed for a Maxim gamer girl feature (iirc). It wasn't racy at all.
Not that it matter (whether she _also_ happen to do so-called 'racy' pictures or not, is irrelevant as to whether she was a good caster or not)... but tell me that this is not 'racy'
http://thecpl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/230269_202012836503385_182380425133293_450872_3256447_n-e1305616350644.jpg
And you could easily have verified yourself, since that is what come out on the first page on google picture... no need to 'recall correctly'
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I haven't actually seen a woman cast games of sports either. Maybe that proffesion is just more appealing to men?
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On July 29 2013 02:27 Ureth_RA wrote:
Can we stop saying female casters when VagCaster is equally appropriate?
User was temp banned for this post.
I guess, reading this, we can start to use DickPoster too apparently :-/
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well we have sheever and that girl that appears with tobi wan every now and then (kindda don't know her name, but i know she exists) in dota 2, also in starcraft it's usually womem that do the post match interviews in tournaments
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On July 29 2013 07:34 MotorDouglas wrote:
well we have sheever and that girl that appears with tobi wan every now and then (kindda don't know her name, but i know she exists) in dota 2, also in starcraft it's usually womem that do the post match interviews in tournaments
I was about to mention her. I really don't like her cast and she is sometimes the only one streaming some games I want to watch. However she's slowly improving and I can bear her with a decent cocaster. I don't mute her anymore but I will still choose Russian stream if I have only two choices. I think she can become a decent caster if she keeps working on it.
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While I don't care about the gender of the caster, I'd cringe at comments like "lul it's a grill casting omg I'm in luv :3333"
I care much more about the accent of the caster. I can't listen to Khaldor for more than 3 minutes. The same went for kellymilkies. The both of them pronounce stuff like "faucefeels" (forcefields) and it ruins the experience for me.
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I am hesitant about the enhancement of female roles in gaming communities. Simply because I just can't stomach the amount of vile that comes out in chat rooms and youtube comments already for the female presence we currently have.
I wouldn't wish that kind of degrading abuse on anyone. I am still confused about the random female hate gaming communities continuously display the rare occasions we get females anywhere near the game.
Most of the times the criticism isn't even objective.
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Wc3 had Jackzie, Bunny and KidArtica, at least the last two were really popular (Moreso than any male casters for quite a while)
Gom sc1 had LilSusie
But yea, after the Kelly Milkies bashing on TL, I don't think anyone really dares take up a casting position on visually broadcast games..
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I don't know if we're mature enough for female casters lol. The twitch.tv chat is bad enough as it is when they see a girl on the audience, or when there's a female announces/interviewer.
The only exception is lanibot, because everyone seems to love her perky personality  . I miss IPLs for that reason
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On July 29 2013 07:55 KingAce wrote:
I am hesitant about the enhancement of female roles in gaming communities. Simply because I just can't stomach the amount of vile that comes out in chat rooms and youtube comments already for the female presence we currently have.
I wouldn't wish that kind of degrading abuse on anyone. I am still confused about the random female hate gaming communities continuously display the rare occasions we get females anywhere near the game.
Most of the times the criticism isn't even objective.
There's alot of jealous that goes on because alot of females abuse the fact that they are simply of the opposite gender to attract viewers simply for money. And if you don't think this is true, then tune into Tara Babcocks stream. If you seriously think Tara doesn't get viewers simply based on her sex appeal, I really don't know what to tell you.
Professional female athletes get a ton of flak all the time, far more than some male athletes do. Want to know why? Because even a mildly successful female athlete is able to make sometimes 3-5x more than a successful male athlete can. When you have the potential to basically triple your salary simply based on your gender, you're going to simply have to deal with what comes with that possibility.
And please don't white knight and say that the attention is unwarranted. You seriously think that these female streamers/personalities/etc. don't know that they are in a male dominant environment, and that they are going to get a ton of hate for no reason?
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casting should be between one man and one woman, anything else is an abomination
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On July 29 2013 08:29 superstartran wrote:
Professional female athletes get a ton of flak all the time, far more than some male athletes do. Want to know why? Because even a mildly successful female athlete is able to make sometimes 3-5x more than a successful male athlete can. When you have the potential to basically triple your salary simply based on your gender, you're going to simply have to deal with what comes with that possibility.
If that's the case, then why are all the highest paid athletes in the world men? Why are salaries for sportsmen higher than sportswomen in every sport and at every level of these sports I can think of? Even sponsorship contracts are far more valuable for male stars than women.
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On July 29 2013 08:06 Goolpsy wrote:
Wc3 had Jackzie, Bunny and KidArtica, at least the last two were really popular (Moreso than any male casters for quite a while)
Gom sc1 had LilSusie
But yea, after the Kelly Milkies bashing on TL, I don't think anyone really dares take up a casting position on visually broadcast games..
KellyMilkies wasn't bashed for being a female. She was, however, criticized for her generally mediocre casting and diva personality. Actually, she had a large number of people coming to her defense because she was a female.
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On July 28 2013 18:55 Waxangel wrote:
can we stop saying 'female' when 'women' is equally applicable
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... Both are fine.
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On July 29 2013 08:52 Quincel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 08:29 superstartran wrote:
Professional female athletes get a ton of flak all the time, far more than some male athletes do. Want to know why? Because even a mildly successful female athlete is able to make sometimes 3-5x more than a successful male athlete can. When you have the potential to basically triple your salary simply based on your gender, you're going to simply have to deal with what comes with that possibility. If that's the case, then why are all the highest paid athletes in the world men? Why are salaries for sportsmen higher than sportswomen in every sport and at every level of these sports I can think of? Even sponsorship contracts are far more valuable for male stars than women.
This is not even remotely true at all.
Salaries for sportsmen are higher because they provide a better product. Compare a sport where the women are much closer to men in terms of equality; tennis is a perfect example of this. Roger Federer may be the highest paid athlete in tennis, but outside of him, most of the men in the top 30 or so make less than the women do. Sharapova to date since the beginning of 2013 has made something close to 30 million dollars, which tops what Nadal has made so far. Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Caroline Wozniaki, and plenty of other high profile female tennis players actually make far more than a vast majority of the big name ATP male tennis players do; in fact, I'm pretty quite a few make more just based on endorsements alone than Novak Djokovic and Murray do, both who are top 5 players currently.
Another example is this; Anna Kournikova. During her prime she was pulling in way more money than a vast majority of male professional athletes, even in the NFL/NBA/etc. where salaries are completely bloated. Why? Because she was considered 'hot and sexy.' So please don't say women don't use their sex appeal to their advantage in sports, because they do.
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Professional female athletes get a ton of flak all the time, far more than some male athletes do. Want to know why? Because even a mildly successful female athlete is able to make sometimes 3-5x more than a successful male athlete can. When you have the potential to basically triple your salary simply based on your gender, you're going to simply have to deal with what comes with that possibility.
that's not true with most professional sports or even life. nba vs wnba kobe bryant was paid 30,453,000 salary only vs wnba players can only be paid a max of 107,000 per year with a bonus cap of about 50,000. not even close. there are no female equivalents to baseball or american football either. in 2012 tiger woods banked 6,159,119 in winnings, the top lpga player banked 1,200,000. in tennis men's #1 Novak Djokovic earned 9.7 million euros, #1 Victoria Azarenka earned 6 million. let's not even mention soccer/football. even if you include endorsements the top female athletes aren't even close to making the same money. It's laughable that you even post something like that.
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Another example is this; Anna Kournikova. During her prime she was pulling in way more money than a vast majority of male professional athletes, even in the NFL/NBA/etc. where salaries are completely bloated. Why? Because she was considered 'hot and sexy.' So please don't say women don't use their sex appeal to their advantage in sports, because they do. Roger Federer made more in endorsements than anna K did. this arguement isn't even close. the average male vs female salary including endorsements isn't even close.
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On July 28 2013 22:11 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:02 Za7oX wrote:
The peak of female commentary was Kelly Milkies. She set such a high standard that others are afraid to follow her. Please. There is no need to be a troll. This is not very funny, and you are knowingly just saying stuff to see people get upset. If you don't really care about the topic, or Kelly as a person, then maybe you should just stay away. At very please, just pause to consider how this post is going to reflect on you. On topic - The lack of female casters is, I think, a natural consequence of having fewer female gamers. Good casters need a good understanding of the game, and this usually comes from being able to play at some level of competency. If there aren't many female players, then there won't be many female casters. There are many reasons for this - things like cultural expectations of girls, interests and so on. Personally I think a big stumbling block is the that the community seems to have serious problems in being able to treat women like normal human beings. This is immensely distracting to any female gamer trying to break into the competitive scene, and may even just plain out scare people away. Edit: For example, I think it is lamentable that in this very thread, some people feel the need to make a kitchen joke. I mean even setting aside that it is sexist... it's so old at this point it is not even funny. But still...
It was a joke. And she wasn't very good at casting either. Cheer up buttercup :D
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EPT
