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On July 29 2013 09:55 bigbadgreen wrote:Show nested quote +Another example is this; Anna Kournikova. During her prime she was pulling in way more money than a vast majority of male professional athletes, even in the NFL/NBA/etc. where salaries are completely bloated. Why? Because she was considered 'hot and sexy.' So please don't say women don't use their sex appeal to their advantage in sports, because they do. Roger Federer made more in endorsements than anna K did. this arguement isn't even close. the average male vs female salary including endorsements isn't even close.
you're missing the point. some women have the ability to use sex appeal to push their earnings way higher than men for their respective skill level and i don't think anyone can disagree with that.
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It's the same with all sports really, majority of casters are males, while presenters/hosts tend to be a mix of men and women. Seems to work pretty well for me.
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you're missing the point. some women have the ability to use sex appeal to push their earnings way higher than men for their respective skill level and i don't think anyone can disagree with that.
Edit: Just dug up a quick 2012 list. according to this Forbes article http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/08/24/roger-federer-tops-list-of-the-worlds-highest-paid-tennis-players/
1. men's Federer 9.3 mill winnings 45 mill endorsements 54.3 total
2. men's Nadal 7.4 winnings 25 endorsements 32.4 total
3. women's Maria Sharapova. winnings 5.1, endorsements 22, total 27.1
4. men's Djokovic winnings 10.3 endorsements 9.5, total 19.8
5. women's Li Na winnings 1.4 endorsements 17, total 18.4
6. women's S. Williams winnings 5.3 endorsements 11, total 16.3
7. women's Wozniacki winnings 2.7 endorsements 11, total 13.7
8. men's murray winnings 5 endorsements 7, total 12
9. women's Azarenka winnings 6.7 endorsements 3, total 9.7
10. men's Roddick winnings 0.8 endorsements 8, total 8.8
overall totals men winnings 32.8 endorsements 95.3 total 128.1
overall women's winnings 21.2 endorsements 64 total 85.2
looks like the men get more winnings and more endorsement money also anna K isn't even on the list.
anything else you'd like to discuss?
Edit to clarify: the original point was made that women athletes on avg are making 3-5x more than male counterparts. This just isn't true if you look at avg or top earners, or avg or top endorsement deals.
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On July 29 2013 10:20 bigbadgreen wrote:Show nested quote +you're missing the point. some women have the ability to use sex appeal to push their earnings way higher than men for their respective skill level and i don't think anyone can disagree with that. Edit: Just dug up a quick 2012 list. according to this Forbes article http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/08/24/roger-federer-tops-list-of-the-worlds-highest-paid-tennis-players/1. men's Federer 9.3 mill winnings 45 mill endorsements 54.3 total 2. men's Nadal 7.4 winnings 25 endorsements 32.4 total 3. women's Maria Sharapova. winnings 5.1, endorsements 22, total 27.1 4. men's Djokovic winnings 10.3 endorsements 9.5, total 19.8 5. women's Li Na winnings 1.4 endorsements 17, total 18.4 6. women's S. Williams winnings 5.3 endorsements 11, total 16.3 7. women's Wozniacki winnings 2.7 endorsements 11, total 13.7 8. men's murray winnings 5 endorsements 7, total 12 9. women's Azarenka winnings 6.7 endorsements 3, total 9.7 10. men's Roddick winnings 0.8 endorsements 8, total 8.8 overall totals men winnings 32.8 endorsements 95.3 total 128.1 overall women's winnings 21.2 endorsements 64 total 85.2 looks like the men get more winnings and more endorsement money anything else you'd like to discuss? Edit to clarify: the original point was made that women athletes on avg are making 3-5x more than male counterparts. This just isn't true if you look at avg or top earners, or avg or top endorsement deals.
It is definitely true when relating it to skill. Roger Federer could easily whipe the floor with any of the top female tennis players. It's not even close. Women should be thankful that they don't have to compete with men or else they wouldn't be winning anything. And it's not surprising that a second or third tier competition like women tennis doesn't add up to quite as much as male tennis, but it surprising that it is actually this close, because top male athletes out-perform female athletes in almost any sport (very few exceptions).
I always thought it weird that female athletes demand the same level of prize money, whilst being alot less skilled than their male counterparts. That just doesn't make any sense to me.
edit: For example. the german women's national team in soccer actually lost to a third tier club (all male) in germany and yet we are supposed to give them the same level of monetary support even though they are about ten times worse than the men's national team? That doesn't add up.
edit2: Even worse they only managed to tie an U19-youth team... that's right they can't even beat amateurs or youth players, but they are supposedly entitled to the same amount of money as the men's national team who compete with the best team's in the world? I don't think so.
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On July 29 2013 10:20 bigbadgreen wrote:Show nested quote +you're missing the point. some women have the ability to use sex appeal to push their earnings way higher than men for their respective skill level and i don't think anyone can disagree with that. looks like the men get more winnings and more endorsement money also anna K isn't even on the list. anything else you'd like to discuss? Edit to clarify: the original point was made that women athletes on avg are making 3-5x more than male counterparts. This just isn't true if you look at avg or top earners, or avg or top endorsement deals.
let me clarify for you. it is true that anna kournikova was making millions in endorsements and never winning tournaments. i don't know of any male athletes that have that ability.
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On July 28 2013 20:44 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 20:01 eX Killy wrote:
why does it matter? casting isnt for everyone.
if theyre good they will rise, otherwise there's no need to promote mediocre (female, but also includes males if you think im being sexist) casters as anything else other than just mediocre casters. i'd rather ld cast than some random female talk on the mic. i'd also rather knowledgeable female casters cast over having to listen to tobi wan slurp na'vi, but we cant have everything we ask for.
if enough women competed at a higher level in general maybe as they retire we'd have more female casters, but if they cant reach that level of skill/influence/following then there's nothing wrong with getting faded out by the community just as men would. Please. Seriously? Of course we need more women in casting. The only time I've heard a female cast was Maddelisk in aftonbladets Esports-SM, which isn't a huge mainstream tournament. (It was in Swedish, only one match and only on their website.) She did a good job. The worst part is how women only get to ask silly questions to the winners of various games, wait for their answer and then, well, back to the real hosts (that are male and wear three times as much clothing)! But, of course it won't happen since "the scene" is a misogynistic craphole.
As a lot of people have been saying, KellyMilkies casted in GOMtv for a little while.
By the way the best commentator is Hazelynut, she was the first and only (if I remember correctly) winner of Commentator Idol.
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let me clarify for you. it is true that anna kournikova was making millions in endorsements and never winning tournaments. i don't know of any male athletes that have that ability.
you're still hanging on to nothing. there are countless NBA #1 draft picks who make millions and don't win anything, some even drop out of the NBA after their initial contract ends, example Hasheem Thabeet Yet he made millions. There are many other athletes who get paid and the skill isn't there. This isn't unique to females. There are quite a few male athletes who bank endorsement money without a performance to back it up. I will throw out post car accident tiger woods. After the divorce he lost a lot of major sponsors, buick, nike and tag heuer to name a few. He also hasn't won anything major since then and is still one of the top endorsement earners in golf. His pay per win is no worse than anna K. I would also ask you to give one more example. Anna K is an anomaly. I can't argue she earned more than what she was worth on the court. But you're acting like this only happens with women.
Edit: came up with the perfect example. Dale Earnhardt Jr. of NASCAR. He has won some races but never been that close to winning the entire series championship. Yet he is one of the top endorsement earners. His endorsements are not skill based. He has his dad's name and for a long time was single and a heart throb marketed towards the female audience of NASCAR.
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where have all the female casters gone
long time passing
where have all the female casters gone
long time agooo
where have all the female casters gone
gone to DOTA everyone
when will they ever learn?
when will they ever learn
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On July 29 2013 11:06 TzaTzers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 20:44 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 20:01 eX Killy wrote:
why does it matter? casting isnt for everyone.
if theyre good they will rise, otherwise there's no need to promote mediocre (female, but also includes males if you think im being sexist) casters as anything else other than just mediocre casters. i'd rather ld cast than some random female talk on the mic. i'd also rather knowledgeable female casters cast over having to listen to tobi wan slurp na'vi, but we cant have everything we ask for.
if enough women competed at a higher level in general maybe as they retire we'd have more female casters, but if they cant reach that level of skill/influence/following then there's nothing wrong with getting faded out by the community just as men would. Please. Seriously? Of course we need more women in casting. The only time I've heard a female cast was Maddelisk in aftonbladets Esports-SM, which isn't a huge mainstream tournament. (It was in Swedish, only one match and only on their website.) She did a good job. The worst part is how women only get to ask silly questions to the winners of various games, wait for their answer and then, well, back to the real hosts (that are male and wear three times as much clothing)! But, of course it won't happen since "the scene" is a misogynistic craphole. As a lot of people have been saying, KellyMilkies casted in GOMtv for a little while. By the way the best commentator is Hazelynut, she was the first and only (if I remember correctly) winner of Commentator Idol.
it's unfair to women that kelly was even selected to cast for a season. she struggled with english enunciation and set a bad precedence for female casters.
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On July 29 2013 11:10 bigbadgreen wrote:Show nested quote +let me clarify for you. it is true that anna kournikova was making millions in endorsements and never winning tournaments. i don't know of any male athletes that have that ability. you're still hanging on to nothing. there are countless NBA #1 draft picks who make millions and don't win anything, some even drop out of the NBA after their initial contract ends, example Hasheem Thabeet Yet he made millions. There are many other athletes who get paid and the skill isn't there. This isn't unique to females. There are quite a few male athletes who bank endorsement money without a performance to back it up. I will throw out post car accident tiger woods. After the divorce he lost a lot of major sponsors, buick, nike and tag heuer to name a few. He also hasn't won anything major since then and is still one of the top endorsement earners in golf. His pay per win is no worse than anna K. I would also ask you to give one more example. Anna K is an anomaly. I can't argue she earned more than what she was worth on the court. But you're acting like this only happens with women.
thabeet was a good example. greg oden is another one i can think of but they're nowhere near having the exposure or endorsement sustenance of anna K. danica patrick and michelle wie are also two subpar athletes who raked in millions in endorsements before winning anything.
i do not believe it is fair to compare tiger woods since he created his endorsement value from winning rather than sex appeal.
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On July 29 2013 08:06 Goolpsy wrote:
But yea, after the Kelly Milkies bashing on TL, I don't think anyone really dares take up a casting position on visually broadcast games..
I have to imagine most women were mocking her along with everyone else, because she certainly wasn't torn down because of her gender.
It set a bad example because it was obvious she didn't fit into the role.
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i do not believe it is fair to compare tiger woods since he created his endorsement value from winning rather than sex appeal.
true. I'll give that up. i was going for more of a not worth the endorsement value for performance aspect for him. I found a better example in Dale Jr. anyways. 22 million in endorsements last season.
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On July 29 2013 11:10 bigbadgreen wrote:Show nested quote +let me clarify for you. it is true that anna kournikova was making millions in endorsements and never winning tournaments. i don't know of any male athletes that have that ability. you're still hanging on to nothing. there are countless NBA #1 draft picks who make millions and don't win anything, some even drop out of the NBA after their initial contract ends, example Hasheem Thabeet Yet he made millions. There are many other athletes who get paid and the skill isn't there. This isn't unique to females. There are quite a few male athletes who bank endorsement money without a performance to back it up. I will throw out post car accident tiger woods. After the divorce he lost a lot of major sponsors, buick, nike and tag heuer to name a few. He also hasn't won anything major since then and is still one of the top endorsement earners in golf. His pay per win is no worse than anna K. I would also ask you to give one more example. Anna K is an anomaly. I can't argue she earned more than what she was worth on the court. But you're acting like this only happens with women. Edit: came up with the perfect example. Dale Earnhardt Jr. of NASCAR. He has won some races but never been that close to winning the entire series championship. Yet he is one of the top endorsement earners. His endorsements are not skill based. He has his dad's name and for a long time was single and a heart throb marketed towards the female audience of NASCAR.
What?
These men EARNED their place to get to the top.
Even NBA/NCAA #1 draft picks earn their spot; they played good enough in college to become worthy of a #1 draft pick. And even though Tiger Woods hasn't won a major, he is ranked #1 in the world right now. Almost every single man you listed has proven far more worth than someone like Kournikova has.
Kournikova at the height of her tennis talent was #8 in the world, thanks to an incredibly weak field at the time. Kournikova was being paid top dollar simply because of her good looks, not because of her ability to play. And it's not just Kournikova; look at Maria Sharapova. Yes, excellent tennis player, but gets paid way more than any other men's tennis player other than Roger Federer. Currently right now, Sharapova earns more than any other male tennis player but Federer, and yet isn't even the best in the world, nor has she ever proven she was a legendary tennis player like Federer.
It's even more hilarious that if you look at that tennis chart, you see Li Na, Williams, and Wozniaki out earning Djokovic in terms of endorsements. The only reason why he beats them is because he racked up a ton of money in winning tournaments or going deep into them. Note that Novak Djokovic is also the CURRENT world #1.
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The female casters are casting the nonexistent female leagues.
Also, I wish Kelly Milkies would do more casting for Gom or OGN/WCS. She was one of my favorite SC2 casters!
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On July 28 2013 19:05 LiFTinG wrote:
Scarlett does have a Y chromosome actually
User was warned for this post
Why would someone get warned for stating a fact in a non inflammatory manner
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On July 29 2013 11:23 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 11:10 bigbadgreen wrote:let me clarify for you. it is true that anna kournikova was making millions in endorsements and never winning tournaments. i don't know of any male athletes that have that ability. you're still hanging on to nothing. there are countless NBA #1 draft picks who make millions and don't win anything, some even drop out of the NBA after their initial contract ends, example Hasheem Thabeet Yet he made millions. There are many other athletes who get paid and the skill isn't there. This isn't unique to females. There are quite a few male athletes who bank endorsement money without a performance to back it up. I will throw out post car accident tiger woods. After the divorce he lost a lot of major sponsors, buick, nike and tag heuer to name a few. He also hasn't won anything major since then and is still one of the top endorsement earners in golf. His pay per win is no worse than anna K. I would also ask you to give one more example. Anna K is an anomaly. I can't argue she earned more than what she was worth on the court. But you're acting like this only happens with women. Edit: came up with the perfect example. Dale Earnhardt Jr. of NASCAR. He has won some races but never been that close to winning the entire series championship. Yet he is one of the top endorsement earners. His endorsements are not skill based. He has his dad's name and for a long time was single and a heart throb marketed towards the female audience of NASCAR. What? These men EARNED their place to get to the top. Even NBA/NCAA #1 draft picks earn their spot; they played good enough in college to become worthy of a #1 draft pick. And even though Tiger Woods hasn't won a major, he is ranked #1 in the world right now. Almost every single man you listed has proven far more worth than someone like Kournikova has. Kournikova at the height of her tennis talent was #8 in the world, thanks to an incredibly weak field at the time. Kournikova was being paid top dollar simply because of her good looks, not because of her ability to play. And it's not just Kournikova; look at Maria Sharapova. Yes, excellent tennis player, but gets paid way more than any other men's tennis player other than Roger Federer. Currently right now, Sharapova earns more than any other male tennis player but Federer, and yet isn't even the best in the world, nor has she ever proven she was a legendary tennis player like Federer.
i feel that this is something that happens much more often to women. sharapova had a dominant streak for a brief period of time unlike kournikova but retains sustained earnings from her sex appeal.
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On July 29 2013 11:25 MattBarry wrote:
Why would someone get warned for stating a fact in a non inflammatory manner
The situation could easily have become inflamed. The way he stated it could be deliberately passive, trying to bring up the topic without being banned.
Had it been inflammatory, I assume he would have been banned outright.
It's been discussed quite a lot and a very large majority of the community seems fine leaving the discussion as it is.
The warning drew a line in the sand and prevented this thread from being potentially derailed.
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You still haven't explained Dale Jr. it doesn't matter. you brought up one example. And #8 in the world. How dare she. Yes she got endorsements because of her looks. Aren't you still trying to defend what you said. I'll quote it.
Professional female athletes get a ton of flak all the time, far more than some male athletes do. Want to know why? Because even a mildly successful female athlete is able to make sometimes 3-5x more than a successful male athlete can. When you have the potential to basically triple your salary simply based on your gender, you're going to simply have to deal with what comes with that possibility
now name more than one example. anna K is so easy, and she never made 3-5x what the top men make. the way I see it it's not even close to the same pay, let alone 3-5x. You're still clinging to one anomaly to support this theory that people are lining up to throw cash at all female athletes just because they are women. It's absurd.
Edit: now what about male athletes who get endorsements based on sex appeal. skill or not. I think David Beckham is a great example. Do you think his underwear ads are because he was so skilled at soccer? He may have broke in because of his skill but he is squeezing every last cent out of his good looks.
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On July 29 2013 11:47 Ichabod wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 11:25 MattBarry wrote:
Why would someone get warned for stating a fact in a non inflammatory manner The situation could easily have become inflamed. The way he stated it could be deliberately passive, trying to bring up the topic without being banned. Had it been inflammatory, I assume he would have been banned outright. It's been discussed quite a lot and a very large majority of the community seems fine leaving the discussion as it is. The warning drew a line in the sand and prevented this thread from being potentially derailed.
I don't pay attention to drama. I didn't even know there was huge uproar about it recently.
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On July 29 2013 09:09 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 08:06 Goolpsy wrote:
Wc3 had Jackzie, Bunny and KidArtica, at least the last two were really popular (Moreso than any male casters for quite a while)
Gom sc1 had LilSusie
But yea, after the Kelly Milkies bashing on TL, I don't think anyone really dares take up a casting position on visually broadcast games.. KellyMilkies wasn't bashed for being a female. She was, however, criticized for her generally mediocre casting and diva personality. Actually, she had a large number of people coming to her defense because she was a female.
She got less criticism than many of the newer casters do now. However if you recall the time of the photoshoot..and the unfortunate wording in the article.
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EPT
