|
On September 24 2013 15:45 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 12:27 Sub40APM wrote:On September 24 2013 07:12 StarStruck wrote:On September 24 2013 03:17 sharkeyanti wrote:
Kessel could have simply skated away. You might say he didn't want to look like a coward, but swinging your stick isn't exactly the ballsiest move. Hopefully this event influences GMs to stop giving goons contracts; if they can't play they shouldn't be out there. Technically he was trying to skate away but tried to take several chops at the same time to tell Scott to fuck off because from Kessel's take the guy was going to jump him regardless after the other fight. He'll probably get a game or two and Clarkson will get ten and the Leafs sign Raymond to a one year deal. Whoop; whoop. He'll probably get a lot more money next year from someone else because he's most certainly back in form. Raymond? The guy who maxed out at 50 points on the high scoring Canucks is going to score more on the pedantic Leafs? If he does, hell certain deserve it. As will his steroid guy. Let's give it some context, shall we? Last year he was making just over 2mil. The Leafs are paying him 1mil and he had a great training camp. I'd say that's worth.
Maybe, he'll have his time in the top 6 but I dont see a guy who had trouble in Vancouver getting hot to suddenly lighting up on the Leafs. But hey, Kessel and Lupul did so who knows.
|
On September 24 2013 12:27 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 07:12 StarStruck wrote:On September 24 2013 03:17 sharkeyanti wrote:
Kessel could have simply skated away. You might say he didn't want to look like a coward, but swinging your stick isn't exactly the ballsiest move. Hopefully this event influences GMs to stop giving goons contracts; if they can't play they shouldn't be out there. Technically he was trying to skate away but tried to take several chops at the same time to tell Scott to fuck off because from Kessel's take the guy was going to jump him regardless after the other fight. He'll probably get a game or two and Clarkson will get ten and the Leafs sign Raymond to a one year deal. Whoop; whoop. He'll probably get a lot more money next year from someone else because he's most certainly back in form. Raymond? The guy who maxed out at 50 points on the high scoring Canucks is going to score more on the pedantic Leafs? If he does, hell certain deserve it. As will his steroid guy.
Mason Raymond has high potential. A million is a great deal for Toronto.
|
10 game suspension but can still play the rest of preseason. If I was playing the Leafs I'd be very very very pissed off. That makes no sense....
|
On September 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 15:45 StarStruck wrote:On September 24 2013 12:27 Sub40APM wrote:On September 24 2013 07:12 StarStruck wrote:On September 24 2013 03:17 sharkeyanti wrote:
Kessel could have simply skated away. You might say he didn't want to look like a coward, but swinging your stick isn't exactly the ballsiest move. Hopefully this event influences GMs to stop giving goons contracts; if they can't play they shouldn't be out there. Technically he was trying to skate away but tried to take several chops at the same time to tell Scott to fuck off because from Kessel's take the guy was going to jump him regardless after the other fight. He'll probably get a game or two and Clarkson will get ten and the Leafs sign Raymond to a one year deal. Whoop; whoop. He'll probably get a lot more money next year from someone else because he's most certainly back in form. Raymond? The guy who maxed out at 50 points on the high scoring Canucks is going to score more on the pedantic Leafs? If he does, hell certain deserve it. As will his steroid guy. Let's give it some context, shall we? Last year he was making just over 2mil. The Leafs are paying him 1mil and he had a great training camp. I'd say that's worth. Maybe, he'll have his time in the top 6 but I dont see a guy who had trouble in Vancouver getting hot to suddenly lighting up on the Leafs. But hey, Kessel and Lupul did so who knows.
I used to be all for knocking Phil Kessel because he used to be pretty one dimensional under Ron Wilson's regime anyway but last year he started showing more color and mixing it up. In training camp he's been playing with a chip on his shoulder. I think Kessel is getting around the hump and hopefully he continues to improve. As for injury prone Lupul. It's just that. The guy is always getting injured but last year when he was in the line-up? Shit, he was pretty explosive once he was ready. Only reason Mason is going to play in the top six is because of Clarkson's nonsense. I'd be more than happy if Mason put up 50 points for 1mil that's a frigging bargain. Going into the game other night he had what... 4? Yeah, preseason doesn't mean jack but shit he certainly showed he's ready to be playing again just like Mr. Paul Ranger.
|
On September 24 2013 17:12 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 12:27 Sub40APM wrote:On September 24 2013 07:12 StarStruck wrote:On September 24 2013 03:17 sharkeyanti wrote:
Kessel could have simply skated away. You might say he didn't want to look like a coward, but swinging your stick isn't exactly the ballsiest move. Hopefully this event influences GMs to stop giving goons contracts; if they can't play they shouldn't be out there. Technically he was trying to skate away but tried to take several chops at the same time to tell Scott to fuck off because from Kessel's take the guy was going to jump him regardless after the other fight. He'll probably get a game or two and Clarkson will get ten and the Leafs sign Raymond to a one year deal. Whoop; whoop. He'll probably get a lot more money next year from someone else because he's most certainly back in form. Raymond? The guy who maxed out at 50 points on the high scoring Canucks is going to score more on the pedantic Leafs? If he does, hell certain deserve it. As will his steroid guy. Mason Raymond has high potential. A million is a great deal for Toronto.
No offense, but he's had 'high potential' for years with the Canucks, I don't see much changing 
|
Not being a canuck any longer is a start.
|
The Canucks have been a high quality team that drives possession well. The Leafs are neither of those things. Raymond is unlikely to do better. Same could have been said about Lupul though, so you never know.
|
On September 25 2013 01:18 sharkeyanti wrote:
The Canucks have been a high quality team that drives possession well. The Leafs are neither of those things. Raymond is unlikely to do better. Same could have been said about Lupul though, so you never know.
Sure they suck at puck possession, but they do make the most out of their chances. I'm still waiting for them to have a preseason game without a lull. It's odd because a few years ago you would question their cardio and skating, but now they have the speed and a lot of guys who can carry the puck. Who knows, maybe we get better on the fore check and pressuring in the neutral zone. It wouldn't hurt winning more faceoffs too. I'll be interested to see what Torte's does with Vancouver this year because that team has steadily been on the decline. As for the Leafs we have to move a few D and start clearing up some room even with the cap going up next year. What do you define as high quality? Vancouver looked very mediocre last year and it's pretty much the same cast of characters with Torte's system. Besides that, the Leafs went from being one of the worst penalty killing teams with Wilson to one of the best (2nd last year and they were 18 for 18 going into the game with Buffalo the other night). They also blocked the most shots and had the most hits. I don't know man, I'd say Randy Carlyle's making this team much harder to play against.
|
|
|
I don't see many guys going head to head with Lucic in a fight but I agree. WOW and Lucic's helmet never fell off hue. This new rule is certainly going to damage a lot of guys hands, but hand over concussions and damage to the head. Okay then.
|
On September 25 2013 02:55 StarStruck wrote:
I don't see many guys going head to head with Lucic in a fight but I agree. WOW and Lucic's helmet never fell off hue. This new rule is certainly going to damage a lot of guys hands, but hand over concussions and damage to the head. Okay then.
yeah to step toe to toe with a dominant silverback like that aint no joke. This game is so epic when its not all about the god damned Habs...
|
On September 24 2013 23:42 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:On September 24 2013 15:45 StarStruck wrote:On September 24 2013 12:27 Sub40APM wrote:On September 24 2013 07:12 StarStruck wrote:On September 24 2013 03:17 sharkeyanti wrote:
Kessel could have simply skated away. You might say he didn't want to look like a coward, but swinging your stick isn't exactly the ballsiest move. Hopefully this event influences GMs to stop giving goons contracts; if they can't play they shouldn't be out there. Technically he was trying to skate away but tried to take several chops at the same time to tell Scott to fuck off because from Kessel's take the guy was going to jump him regardless after the other fight. He'll probably get a game or two and Clarkson will get ten and the Leafs sign Raymond to a one year deal. Whoop; whoop. He'll probably get a lot more money next year from someone else because he's most certainly back in form. Raymond? The guy who maxed out at 50 points on the high scoring Canucks is going to score more on the pedantic Leafs? If he does, hell certain deserve it. As will his steroid guy. Let's give it some context, shall we? Last year he was making just over 2mil. The Leafs are paying him 1mil and he had a great training camp. I'd say that's worth. Maybe, he'll have his time in the top 6 but I dont see a guy who had trouble in Vancouver getting hot to suddenly lighting up on the Leafs. But hey, Kessel and Lupul did so who knows. I used to be all for knocking Phil Kessel because he used to be pretty one dimensional under Ron Wilson's regime anyway but last year he started showing more color and mixing it up. In training camp he's been playing with a chip on his shoulder. I think Kessel is getting around the hump and hopefully he continues to improve. As for injury prone Lupul. It's just that. The guy is always getting injured but last year when he was in the line-up? Shit, he was pretty explosive once he was ready. Only reason Mason is going to play in the top six is because of Clarkson's nonsense. I'd be more than happy if Mason put up 50 points for 1mil that's a frigging bargain. Going into the game other night he had what... 4? Yeah, preseason doesn't mean jack but shit he certainly showed he's ready to be playing again just like Mr. Paul Ranger.
I wasnt being sarcastic. Kessel and Lupul both thrived compare to their previous stops so maybe Raymond will to. I just dont see it Canuck fans have been crowning Raymond as the next big thing for like 5 years out here and he never quit reached the next step.
|
talking about Canucks fans,
who sees Torts lasting the whole season??
Are you guys eager to watch the Sedins sprawl on the ice to block shots?
Personnally I hope he gets canned a-la-Barry Melrose. But maybe some ppl still like him?
|
On September 25 2013 04:23 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
talking about Canucks fans,
who sees Torts lasting the whole season??
Are you guys eager to watch the Sedins sprawl on the ice to block shots?
Personnally I hope he gets canned a-la-Barry Melrose. But maybe some ppl still like him?
He definitely lasts the whole season, with Luongo saga thanks to best GM in the world Mike Gillis its his ass on the line. I guess if they fail to meet the playoffs he gets canned and Gillis gets canned immediately after.
|
On September 25 2013 08:18 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 04:23 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
talking about Canucks fans,
who sees Torts lasting the whole season??
Are you guys eager to watch the Sedins sprawl on the ice to block shots?
Personnally I hope he gets canned a-la-Barry Melrose. But maybe some ppl still like him? He definitely lasts the whole season, with Luongo saga thanks to best GM in the world Mike Gillis its his ass on the line. I guess if they fail to meet the playoffs he gets canned and Gillis gets canned immediately after.
Vancouver isn't going to make the playoffs. They have come across as a strong team for the last few years because their whole division has been dreadfully bad. Thus all those possession stats people like to point too get inflated to levels they would never come close to maintaining vs a good team. Now they have several good teams to contend with. All 3 Cali teams are top tier in the west. Vancouver will find themselves on the outside looking in.
|
even if they lose to all 3 of the Cali teams -- and honestly, Anaheim is not a stronger team than the Canucks, it just isnt, -- the Canucks will make it via the wild card. The new 'central' division has a lot of trash teams in it.
|
|
|
@Starstruck
I think we see the Leafs in a very different light. As a rank outsider, I see a team of decent players that can top out at a 5/6 seed. "Making the most of your chances" is something that really is not repeatable year to year. Also, blocked shots is often indicative of being a bad team. You could calculate blocked shots as a percentage of shots allowed I guess, I'm not sure how the Leafs would fare. Generally though, a team blocks lots of shots because the other team is in their zone a lot. Hits also have basically no correlation to winning.
As to Vancouver, last year might not have been great, but the previous few years had shown them with quality teams that were cup contenders. I agree that they are definitely in decline now. Raymond was a part of those good years. Toronto is definitely inferior to those teams. He might do well in TOR though, again I would point to Lupul as an example of a player who did benefit as a Leaf.
I don't want to sound too much like a stats guy, but there has been a ridiculous disconnect between the TOR brass' idea of what wins games and the reality of hockey. Fights, hits, blocked shots do not win games. They can change momentum from time to time, but you score goals because you shoot the puck and get near the net. TOR does have some quality players, but have grossly mishandled their offseason.
|
On September 25 2013 15:23 sharkeyanti wrote:
@Starstruck
I think we see the Leafs in a very different light. As a rank outsider, I see a team of decent players that can top out at a 5/6 seed. "Making the most of your chances" is something that really is not repeatable year to year. Also, blocked shots is often indicative of being a bad team. You could calculate blocked shots as a percentage of shots allowed I guess, I'm not sure how the Leafs would fare. Generally though, a team blocks lots of shots because the other team is in their zone a lot. Hits also have basically no correlation to winning.
As to Vancouver, last year might not have been great, but the previous few years had shown them with quality teams that were cup contenders. I agree that they are definitely in decline now. Raymond was a part of those good years. Toronto is definitely inferior to those teams. He might do well in TOR though, again I would point to Lupul as an example of a player who did benefit as a Leaf.
I don't want to sound too much like a stats guy, but there has been a ridiculous disconnect between the TOR brass' idea of what wins games and the reality of hockey. Fights, hits, blocked shots do not win games. They can change momentum from time to time, but you score goals because you shoot the puck and get near the net. TOR does have some quality players, but have grossly mishandled their offseason.
That goes back to our crappy puck possession but we have a lot of guys on D who can move the puck and outlet passes. That and our team's speed is very fast. That's why I say we make the most of our chances because the Leafs are normally out shot. That dates back to the Pat Quinn era. If there is one thing Ron got the team to do it was out shoot other teams but look at those shots/traffic. Most of our opportunities weren't opportunities at all. They were from the perimeter and easy saves. The thing is going from Ron's days to Randy's and Dallas teaching the youngsters the system Randy wants to play? We have a lot of guys who are NHL ready and if we are getting out shoot a lot of those chances are actually from the perimeter, i.e. easy saves for the goalie as long as they cover the rebounds. So it's not as bad as it seems. Torte's follows a similar philosophy where if you don't block shots and play in the proper position he wants you to be in. You don't play.
I'm not going to compare the '09-'10 Vancouver team to Toronto lmao. That's silly. All that matters is right now man and Torte's has a lot of work to do. As for Raymond, no one is expecting him to put up ridiculous numbers. Look at the players he has to play behind for starters. Sure, if Lupul gets injured or money bags Clarkson gets suspended he'll see top six minutes, but that's not the point. He's a legitimate threat on the third line. Anyone remember where Jiri Tlusty used to play over here? Last year he was a first liner for Carolina go figure. Several years ago Kulemin, MacArthur and Grabo were starting for the Leafs. Time always change man. Raymond's 28 and with that injury you would think the guy's already peaked. We have three legit lines and we're big, strong and can skate. You heard what Julien was saying about the first round. There was a ton of respect there because he knows how Randy coaches and that it would be a tough series. There was zero shit talking because both teams are tough.
Offseason? Who doesn't overpay players in this day and age. We can go down the list man and you'll always see say so-and-so got overpaid. That is nothing new lmao.
|
The question of shot quality has been on my mind a lot this summer after reading that interview with Greg Cronin. Pension Plan Puppets pointed out (after greatly poring through it) that TOR actually didn't do a lot of what the staff wanted them to. Cronin had this idea of spending over 15/20 seconds in the zone to get a good shot and tire out the other team. And last year the Leafs didn't even do that once per game. I think the notion of forcing shots from the outside is a good one, and is actually in line with what most NHL teams tend to do. Unfortunately for TOR, they were so heavily outshot that those factors were mitigated.
I've been toying with an article that talks about whether counter-attacking is a viable strategy in the NHL, and this sort of gets at the heart of the issue. But at the moment it seems that the uncertainty of truly keeping defensive shape is too great a risk. Deflections and weird plays happen a lot. If you let the other team put the puck towards your net a lot more than you do to them, you are likely to lose. As the league moves faster and less grabby, counter-attacking may indeed become viable. If TOR truly wants to be a team that capitalizes on occasional but quality chances, they need to be fast and skilled. Raymond is actually a good pickup in this regard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
